calorie dilemma

[Rachel_n_SD]

ok, here it is:

i've been stuck at or around the same weight for a couple months now. im at 130, and shooting for 120, so i'm needing to lose about 8-10 more lbs to get where i want.

130 seems to be my body's set point-that is to say, i can't seem to get below it without extreme measures, such as carb cycling and taking ephedra, or being in Iraq and starving.

i've been eating 1500-1600 calories daily, which leaves me so hungry i feel like killing someone, even though i'm taking stimulants which should, in theory, be suppressing my appetite. i also feel fatigued, cranky, and weak at the gym. i am so hungry i can only maintain this caloric level for about 4-5 days before i go crazy and have a refeed of about 2100 calories, or sometimes, a cheat.

so all this indicates to me that my calories are probably too low even for cutting. the problem is, when i increase them to around 1700-1800, where i feel still hungry, but more comfortable, i am completely unable to lose fat.

things to consider- i can't carb cycle, i have a medical condition where it makes me ill, so that's out.

my workout isn't too extreme- 5x5 style workout, and i do cardio on the days i dont lift, usually running about 4-5 miles.

suggestions?

[gecko2424]

You're too hot to lose more weight. The universe is preventing it from happening.

[Rachel_n_SD]

Originally Posted by gecko2424

You're too hot to lose more weight. The universe is preventing it from happening.

i wish that were true seriously though, i feel that i really am not lean enough, but it seems like nothing i do helps, unless i start to do really extreme, unhealthy stuff.

[gecko2424]

see other thread

[Rachel_n_SD]

Originally Posted by gecko2424

see other thread

yeah, like i said, according to various calculators, my maintenance is around 2100-2300, so in theory, i should be able to lose on 1800, but i don't.

i actually tried eating at 1800 calories for a whole month, and my metabolism didn't "normalize" or any such thing, i just stayed the same weight (and measurements)

[BigDutchman]

Just a wild guess, but are you a drinker at all? Even cutting the hard stuff that purports to have 0 carbs, 0 sugar can make a huge difference. Fat loss/leaning was the first thing that happened when I stopped drinking.
Otherwise, ever try swimming instead of running? That gets me lean faster than any other cardio on the planet. It also hit every muscle group whereas running is more focused on lower body.

[Miburo]

hmmmm, not having actually reached that point yet (where I've plateaued) but maybe you should try bulking, or even just relaxing and doing a maint for a month or so.

That way your metabolism gets shaken up a little bit and you can cut again after that. Or are you afraid that 2100-2300 might make you regain what you lost?

[Rachel_n_SD]

Originally Posted by BigDutchman

Just a wild guess, but are you a drinker at all? Even cutting the hard stuff that purports to have 0 carbs, 0 sugar can make a huge difference. Fat loss/leaning was the first thing that happened when I stopped drinking.
Otherwise, ever try swimming instead of running? That gets me lean faster than any other cardio on the planet. It also hit every muscle group whereas running is more focused on lower body.

nope, i don't drink at all, i can't tolerate alcohol or i get sick. my diet is clean and has no hidden calories, believe me, i've been doing this for years (used to be obese) so alcohol, diet sodas, etc are not the culprit.

might as well mention that my diet is entirely composed of lean meat, veggies, and whole grains. and i drink tons of water, nothing else.

[Rachel_n_SD]

Originally Posted by Miburo

hmmmm, not having actually reached that point yet (where I've plateaued) but maybe you should try bulking, or even just relaxing and doing a maint for a month or so.

That way your metabolism gets shaken up a little bit and you can cut again after that. Or are you afraid that 2100-2300 might make you regain what you lost?

i did that already, i ate at maintenance for a month. i also recently took two weeks off the gym, and one off the diet.

it didn't help-i gained weight initially, which came off pretty quickly as soon as i began dieting again. once i got back to 130, bam, the loss stopped again.

[JUSA]

If you can't eat less, perhaps eat less calorie dense foods. Some things, like black beans, fill you up but don't have many calories. Otherwise, step up the cardio. Sounds like you might want to change how you run, too, the body adapts and all. If you're jogging, try HITT, etc...

[Rachel_n_SD]

Originally Posted by Johnny USA

If you can't eat less, perhaps eat less calorie dense foods. Some things, like black beans, fill you up but don't have many calories. Otherwise, step up the cardio. Sounds like you might want to change how you run, too, the body adapts and all. If you're jogging, try HITT, etc...

nothing i eat is calorie dense, i eat filling but low-cal stuff like oats, brown rice, black beans, lots of veggies, etc.

would an increase in cardio be beneficial? i actually have tried changing to hitt cardio and all, it didn't seem to do anything. im reluctant to do more, fearing muscle loss or an even worse plateau..

[Miburo]

Originally Posted by Rachel_n_SD

i did that already, i ate at maintenance for a month. i also recently took two weeks off the gym, and one off the diet.

it didn't help-i gained weight initially, which came off pretty quickly as soon as i began dieting again. once i got back to 130, bam, the loss stopped again.

What about a slow clean bulk? an increased LBM would be beneficial to cutting.

[DJohnson]

Rx: Cutting too long, bulk 8 weeks.

[JUSA]

Originally Posted by Miburo

What about a slow clean bulk? an increased LBM would be beneficial to cutting.

Maybe, for a woman 130 lbs (I'm assuming of atheltic shape) is pretty good. If she worked hard and long, maybe another 10 lbs of muscle to her frame.. which never hurts but in the time it took to grow that, I think she can lose what she wants - just need to figure out what's up.

More cardio:
Have you considered splitting cardio throughout the day? Running a marathon every day won't do your LBM (or joints) any favors but if you get up in the morning, drink some whey & h20 w/ BCAAs, walk/jog a bit, do whatever it is you do during the day, come home and either lift weights or on days between lifting- or on off days: more cardio - I think you will spare LBM as long as you adhere to proper pre and post workout diet standards.

If you happen to have a break in the day, even then throwing in a mini-cardio session wouldn't hurt either.

Spreading your cardio throughout the day will help increase your metabolism all day long, which helps, and keep you from having to do it all at once and destroying your LBM.

I don't think you'd need much more, you're probably losing weight as it is (just not enough!) - 200-400 extra calories a day, which could be easily gotten with a simply low impact walk, that comes to quite a lot over the entire week (1,400 to 2,800 extra cals burned - not bad at all)

[Stonecoldtruth]

There are a few things you could do:

1) Mess around with meal timing, spread your calories out over more/less meals to see if it has a metabolic effect.

2) Morning cardio w/ BCAAs per cardio. This is considered 'fasted' cardio but the BCAAs help to prevent catabolism of muscle.

3) More cardio overall, I'd consider adding in maybe one more session.

SCT

[Rachel_n_SD]

Originally Posted by Miburo

What about a slow clean bulk? an increased LBM would be beneficial to cutting.

i'm debating it, i have quite a bit of muscle right now, so i'm not sure i want to gain even more- what do you guys think about 2000 calories or so?

so, someone suggested morning cardio with BCAAs
normally i'm against fasted cardio but that might be a good idea.

[Stonecoldtruth]

Originally Posted by Rachel_n_SD

i'm debating it, i have quite a bit of muscle right now, so i'm not sure i want to gain even more- what do you guys think about 2000 calories or so?

so, someone suggested morning cardio with BCAAs
normally i'm against fasted cardio but that might be a good idea.

I'm against fasted cardio for the most part, but with BCAAs it isn't the same animal.

I do think you could benefit from upping BOTH the cals and the cardio, that might be the key ingredient.

SCT

[Rachel_n_SD]

Originally Posted by stonecoldtruth

I'm against fasted cardio for the most part, but with BCAAs it isn't the same animal.

I do think you could benefit from upping BOTH the cals and the cardio, that might be the key ingredient.

SCT

ok, i appreciate everyone's help.

so the consensus seems to be, more cardio, HITT cardio, and looks like im gonna have to suck it up and become a morning person.

as for the calories, to what degree should i up them?
aside from the gym, my lifestyle is not that active-i have a desk job and spend evenings in class.

so i spend 90% of my day at a desk, in light of that, and my stats, what kind of cals do you guys think i should be shooting for?

[SM373]

Originally Posted by Rachel_n_SD

i'm debating it, i have quite a bit of muscle right now, so i'm not sure i want to gain even more- what do you guys think about 2000 calories or so?

so, someone suggested morning cardio with BCAAs
normally i'm against fasted cardio but that might be a good idea.

Honestly I think you should bulk for a little bit. The increased LBM will help give a leaner appearance with a higher BF and it also promotes burning fat which will lower your BF in the long run. At the present time, you may just not have enough LBM for your genetics to maintain a <20% BF indefinately.

Bring your calories up to 2000, and monitor yourself every week for weight gain and through the mirror. Increase/decrease as necessary, but don't panic if you put on a little bit of fat, as long as you're adding muscle also.

[Stonecoldtruth]

Originally Posted by Rachel_n_SD

ok, i appreciate everyone's help.

so the consensus seems to be, more cardio, HITT cardio, and looks like im gonna have to suck it up and become a morning person.

as for the calories, to what degree should i up them?
aside from the gym, my lifestyle is not that active-i have a desk job and spend evenings in class.

so i spend 90% of my day at a desk, in light of that, and my stats, what kind of cals do you guys think i should be shooting for?

I would increase the calories by about 200 per week until you hit an acceptable rate of loss. I think anywhere betwee 1800-2000 is going to be your sweet spot once you add in some more cardio..

As someone said to me earlier today,

Your body is like a laboratory, experiment!

SCT

p.s. What type/if any of supps are you taking currently? How is your appetite?

[Rachel_n_SD]

Originally Posted by stonecoldtruth

I would increase the calories by about 200 per week until you hit an acceptable rate of loss. I think anywhere betwee 1800-2000 is going to be your sweet spot once you add in some more cardio..

As someone said to me earlier today,

Your body is like a laboratory, experiment!

SCT

p.s. What type/if any of supps are you taking currently? How is your appetite?

right now i'm stacking ephedrine + Scorch. yeah i know, two stimulants, bad idea. i only take 25mg ephedrine per day with 1/2 the recommended dose of scorch though, and drink extra water, actually the stack doesn't seem to be affecting me much at all.

it controlled my appetite for about 2 days, and now i'm back to my usual level of insane hunger. i expect some hunger while cutting, but i am so hungry i feel like punching someone in the face, and then eating them.

[Rachel_n_SD]

Originally Posted by SM373

Honestly I think you should bulk for a little bit. The increased LBM will help give a leaner appearance with a higher BF and it also promotes burning fat which will lower your BF in the long run. At the present time, you may just not have enough LBM for your genetics to maintain a <20% BF indefinately.

Bring your calories up to 2000, and monitor yourself every week for weight gain and through the mirror. Increase/decrease as necessary, but don't panic if you put on a little bit of fat, as long as you're adding muscle also.

im gonna try it, i'm always scared of bulking because i am an easy gainer, and i just have a muscular appearance in general, whether or not i lift weights.

[Stonecoldtruth]

Originally Posted by Rachel_n_SD

right now i'm stacking ephedrine + Scorch. yeah i know, two stimulants, bad idea. i only take 25mg ephedrine per day with 1/2 the recommended dose of scorch though, and drink extra water, actually the stack doesn't seem to be affecting me much at all.

it controlled my appetite for about 2 days, and now i'm back to my usual level of insane hunger. i expect some hunger while cutting, but i am so hungry i feel like punching someone in the face, and then eating them.

If you were doing full dosages of Scorch you would probably get better appetite suppression. Also, when are you taking the ephedrine?

SCT

[Rachel_n_SD]

Originally Posted by stonecoldtruth

If you were doing full dosages of Scorch you would probably get better appetite suppression. Also, when are you taking the ephedrine?

SCT

with my morning dose of scorch.

then, before lunch, i take 2 more scorch. i'm not up to the 3 scorch, 2x daily-but i will probably be there within the week.

[sgtrobo]

oats and brown rice are pretty calorically dense, actually

they're fantasticly healthy, but they are most definitely calorically dense, especially brown rice.

ever try sucking down tons of veggies and leaving the starches for ONLY PWO meal?

as for the muscle-burning effect of fasted cardio, it is going to depend on the person, and drinking some BCAAs before and during will really work wonders to keep cortisol from jacking your hormonal profile.

If you can, do sprints or stairs or the stepmill. Great exercises, slice up your thighs nicely, and don't burn muscle, unless you're a natural ectomorph.

[Rachel_n_SD]

Originally Posted by sgtrobo

oats and brown rice are pretty calorically dense, actually

they're fantasticly healthy, but they are most definitely calorically dense, especially brown rice.

ever try sucking down tons of veggies and leaving the starches for ONLY PWO meal?

as for the muscle-burning effect of fasted cardio, it is going to depend on the person, and drinking some BCAAs before and during will really work wonders to keep cortisol from jacking your hormonal profile.

If you can, do sprints or stairs or the stepmill. Great exercises, slice up your thighs nicely, and don't burn muscle, unless you're a natural ectomorph.

yeah. i tried timing my carbs, it worked extremely well, fatloss-wise, but i have digestive problems and basically every time i eliminate starches, i get really ill. i tried it twice, and each time i did it, 3 weeks or so into the diet i got sick.

i think the BCAA's might work, i typically retain and gain muscle really easily, so im not super-concerned with muscle loss. they might just do the job.

im gonna start sprinting, running seems to trump everything else for me when it comes to cardio, but right now i do it at a constant pace, so i'm gonna start doing HITT-style sprints instead.

[lespaulsarecool]

can we see what it is you need to lose?

[JUSA]

Are you not lifting? I thought I read you were on a 3/day split right now...?