Lat pull downs same as pull ups????

[newb-to-lifting]

Hey all I just started working out recently and I can't do 1 pull up lol. Our gym does not have an assisted pull up/dips machine only a regular bar. So should I start out doing Lat Pull Downs to build strength until I can do pull ups on my own? Will it work the same muscles?? Visually it seems the same your just sitting down instead of hanging. Any help would be appreciated, thanks.

[oki9Sedo]

Hey all I just started working out recently and I can't do 1 pull up lol. Our gym does not have an assisted pull up/dips machine only a regular bar. So should I start out doing Lat Pull Downs to build strength until I can do pull ups on my own? Will it work the same muscles?? Visually it seems the same your just sitting down instead of hanging. Any help would be appreciated, thanks.

Pull-ups are MUCH better than lat pulldown, but yes, its best to start of with lat pulldown if you're a beginner.

[Rachel_n_SD]

pullups are about a million times better than lat pulldowns. i dont recommend starting with pulldowns until you build your strength, you could probably do pulldowns for 10 years and still never be able to do a pullup.

if you want to start doing pullups, start with assisted pullups, either by having a buddy hold your legs while you do them, or using the assisted pullup machine which uses weight to counter your own weight.

[oki9Sedo]

He doesn't have an assisted pull-up machine. Most people just start off using the lat pulldown machine.

[Rachel_n_SD]

He doesn't have an assisted pull-up machine. Most people just start off using the lat pulldown machine.

which is why most people can't do a pullup, and why i suggested a buddy. all it takes is asking the guy next to you if he can hold your legs for a second.

another thing to do, is dead arm hangs, where you would get a chair and get yourself up to the the top of the pullup position, and lower yourself very slowly.

[tarun_s]

do negative pullups.

[Rachel_n_SD]

do negative pullups.

yeah, that's kind of what i was describing up there-we used to call them dead arm hangs, though.

[tarun_s]

yeah, that's kind of what i was describing up there-we used to call them dead arm hangs, though.

oh sorry didnt read that.

[HiLite]

all it takes is asking the guy next to you if he can hold your legs for a second.

I would never hold some random dudes legs while he did pull ups. Maybe thats just me.

[Rachel_n_SD]

I would never hold some random dudes legs while he did pull ups. Maybe thats just me.

why not? it's like asking for a spot. ask a random chick then, there's not only dudes at the gym.

[oki9Sedo]

why not? it's like asking for a spot. ask a random chick then, there's not only dudes at the gym.

Holding someones sweating, hairy legs/arse while they do pull-ups isn't the same thing Rachel n SD!

[Need2ShapeUp]

I would never hold some random dudes legs while he did pull ups. Maybe thats just me.

LOL! Rachel, I think it's much easier for you to get some guy to volunteer to hold your legs than it would be for me.

[mike_d]

Rachel knows what shes talking about. Training lat pulldowns to get good at pullups is like training hammer strength to get a huge bench press. Just do freaking pullups. If I started at 245lbs struggling to do 1, you guys can do them too.

Even just hold the bar and TRY to pull yourself up. Give a little jump to get to the top of the bar then do a SLOOOOOOOW negative. Or read one of the millions of pullup threads in the exercise section

Search-tech

[Rachel_n_SD]

LOL! Rachel, I think it's much easier for you to get some guy to volunteer to hold your legs than it would be for me.

yeah, lol, guys are usually pretty enthusiastic about holding my legs, but i didn't think about it like that until now...

i don't really mean holding you at the legs though, more like by the feet.
but if you can't do it and don't wanna look like a homo, and can't find a female to hold them so it's not gay, then refer to above-negative pullups.

[mike_d]

Holding someones sweating, hairy legs/arse while they do pull-ups isn't the same thing Rachel n SD!

i found it easier when someone held my feet (ie: the laces of my shoes).

if you spot someone, just watch out for their ass hitting you in the face




edit: one thing that wasnt mentioned i dont think was benches. You can set an adjustable bench under your feet and push off that to bang out reps. Not as good as a real spotter but it works in a pinch. And do your negatives!

[oki9Sedo]

And don't eat chicken tikka before working out if you intend to get someone to assist you.

[pryme]

For bigger people, pullups are not a real good choice, unless you want shoulder injurys.

Ronnie has the best back this side of king kong, and ive never seen him do a pullup in any of his vids, same gos for all the big pros.

Just one mans opinion.

[mike_d]

For bigger people, pullups are not a real good choice, unless you want shoulder injurys.

Ronnie has the best back this side of king kong, and ive never seen him do a pullup in any of his vids, same gos for all the big pros.

Just one mans opinion.

I disagree with that one, I was doing them at 245lbs and obviously Ronnie has a bit of strength on me. I'm not the strongest guy out there but now I'm at 225lbs, stronger then ever and am doing a total weight of 270. I've seen plenty of strong guys doing total weight in excess of 300lbs for reps.....even me personally, I'm only about 30lbs off Ronnie's bodyweight. I bet he does them, maybe just not on videos I dunno. Seems like he does all his showoff lifts to get kids to buy his DVD's and maybe his pullup strength just isnt as impressive as his leg presses.

I just watched a Mariusz video (the guy is approaching 300lbs btw) and he was banging out rep after rep with full ROM.

[blinKme431]

For bigger people, pullups are not a real good choice, unless you want shoulder injurys.

Ronnie has the best back this side of king kong, and ive never seen him do a pullup in any of his vids, same gos for all the big pros.

Just one mans opinion.

Totally agree. I think for the average guy pull-ups are great, but for the REAL hardcore pro-BBers, body weight exercises are useless.

[2MuChBoDyFaT]

pullups are about a million times better than lat pulldowns. i dont recommend starting with pulldowns until you build your strength, you could probably do pulldowns for 10 years and still never be able to do a pullup.

if you want to start doing pullups, start with assisted pullups, either by having a buddy hold your legs while you do them, or using the assisted pullup machine which uses weight to counter your own weight.

That is so damn true. I am 6'5" / 220 pounds and I can tell you, pull ups are a bitch for me. Long arms and lots of weight are a killer!!!

Rachel hit the nail on the head regarding your lat pulldown question. I started doing lat pulldowns when I first went to the gym and IMO, they do not help a great deal with your ability to do a pull up. I think because pull ups involve moving your body through space, a lot more ancillary muscles are brought into play .... this simply is not the case with lat pulldowns.

I could do none 4 months ago. Now I'm doing 3 sets of 4 and feeling stronger each week

Do negatives, and dont be shy to ask someone at the gym to assist you (by pushing up on your bootlaces). Maybe you have some staff at your gym you can ask ? It is their job after all

Good luck with it

- 2much

[gecko2424]

Set a bench next to the pullup station. Stand on it. Grab the bar (should be eye level) now with your toes only on the bench, dip your knees down then pull back up. If you can't make it, use your toes to help. Worked for me.

[passerby]

do rack chins

[deadaim]

Ive never had a problem with pull ups, even the wide grip variation. I do lat pulldowns because i dont feel being able to do 20 pull ups is beneficial enough. I do heavy weight on the pulldowns then burnout on pullups.

[McCrack]

Ive never had a problem with pull ups, even the wide grip variation. I do lat pulldowns because i dont feel being able to do 20 pull ups is beneficial enough. I do heavy weight on the pulldowns then burnout on pullups.

If pulling up your body weight isnt enough resistance, hold a dumbell between your knees.

I do pullups and lat pulldowns, and I always really feel the pulldowns. It seems to me that the majority of ppl in my gym dont even do pulldowns propperly and maybe that is why lots of people say they are useless. I always see people rolling their shoulders forward in the bottom part of the rep which takes a lot of the stress of the lats.

[Couldbebigga]

which is why most people can't do a pullup, and why i suggested a buddy. all it takes is asking the guy next to you if he can hold your legs for a second.

another thing to do, is dead arm hangs, where you would get a chair and get yourself up to the the top of the pullup position, and lower yourself very slowly.

Bingo. Lowering yourself slowly after getting yourself up anyway possible is an excellent way to build pullup strength when you can't do 1 at all.

[BattleHymns]

what about just doing more barbell rows and not do pulldowns

[Jacked_J]

I'm with Rachel on this.

Pull-ups are must to getting better at pull-ups period.

And to the other "hardcore" non-competing bodybuilders, pull-ups will no doubt do lots of work on your back. If it gets easy, add weight. No excuses.

[AHTTG]

Pulldowns worked well for me. Contrary to popular belief they will build your strength up. Do them with good form(no swinding around) and do some BB rows with good form. If you can't do BB rows with good form(this is a problem for a lot of newbies) do some DB rows on a bench, you'll find all these exercises in the stickies at the top of the page.

I'm not at all for the suggestions above. Negatives won't do **** for him if he's overweight, not anywhere near what pulldowns will. The gym can be an intimidating place for a noob anyway, the last thing he needs is half the people there staring at him as he rides some girls back while trying to jerk himself up for a half ass pullup.

[AHTTG]

what about just doing more barbell rows and not do pulldowns

Not really. Most newbs will row with their biceps and lower back than lats anyway. Some can't even get into the position because of the lack of lower back strength.

Lat work starts with pulling and SOME rowing. He can add more rows later as he gets more accustomed to weightlifting.

[King Crush]

We got a girl in the exercise forum? COOL! My name is King Crush.