I mean all these NO products contains Arginine right?
Thay also contain different types of arginines (a-akg , a-kic) (which are more powerful?? or not??).
So:
What is the difference between These Arginine?
Taking 2 grams of L-Arginine is equal to taking 2 grams of Arginine-AKG ?
How many grams/day would be overdose? (protein powders also contain Arginine, meat has it, Milk probably has it too, ect...)
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07-16-2006, 08:23 PM #1
How Much Arginine is too much Arginine ?
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07-16-2006, 08:42 PM #2
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07-16-2006, 10:50 PM #3
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07-17-2006, 12:02 AM #4Originally Posted by Jimmyphttp://bodyspace.bodybuilding.com/RSobkowz/
Please look and leave some comments!
"Destroy to recreate. Disassemble, to assemble something pure." -Mudvayne
"All men WERE created equal. Some of us just choose to bust our asses and BECOME better." -Me
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07-17-2006, 12:30 AM #5Originally Posted by STILL FREE"The road to salvation is through Christ"
Luke 1:74
to rescue us from the hand of our enemies, and to enable us to serve him without fear
^Love is the power of the righteousness life that overcomes the fear that leads to sin, and the life in which God is pleased.
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07-17-2006, 01:12 AM #6
Sorry, to answer the questions you had, or try to...
L-arginine in the basic form is the poorest absorbed of the bunch. This type though is said to have a more pronounced effect on GH release though as opposed th AKG or ethyl-ester. I've read conflicting articles on that and I really can't say.
The latter of the 2 are absorbed and shuttled to the muscle more effectively than the basic form however. As I said before, 3 grams of AAKG is actually 1.773 grams of L-arginine and the remainder is in the AKG.
The esterfied version is simply argine with an ester, a compound from the reaction of alcohols and carboxylic acid. The 2 more techno versions allow it to pass into the intestine more in tact and be absorbed whereas the standard form degrades quickly in the stomach.
Does that help?
-Ronhttp://bodyspace.bodybuilding.com/RSobkowz/
Please look and leave some comments!
"Destroy to recreate. Disassemble, to assemble something pure." -Mudvayne
"All men WERE created equal. Some of us just choose to bust our asses and BECOME better." -Me
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07-17-2006, 01:21 AM #7
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07-17-2006, 04:34 AM #8
So the only difference is the absorption?
My local store told me that If I take 3g of A-AKG, it would be equal to 6 grams of L-Arginine that I should consider buying AKG stuff than L-Arginine. Is this True ?
I think he tells this because NO2 products cost more and he wants to sell them. But also he was competing in the past so he sure knows what is what...
What people here think of this? Are the derivates comparable with the original stuff?
He also said 10 grams daily would be normal.. so it's 6-7 NO2 pills min. a day. It's recommended "3" on the box. And I really don't want to exceed the rec. doses of anything. Can it be harmful?
As I have some problem with the pressure in my eyes. (basicly the problem is : the veins in the eyes dilate and cause other problems..)
These No2 products dilate the veins of eyes too right? I didn't have anything uncomfortable till now. But If I take it over the recommended dose, can it do anything bad?
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07-17-2006, 05:23 AM #9
Pct
Aside from use as a PCT agent (it helps to increase sperm motility) my
honest opinion is that 99%+ of the current crop of arginine prods...any of
them...are useless in increasing athletic performance, muscle mass, and
all that jazz. If you have diabetes there might be some benefit to
supplementing with a good arginine product. Other than that, there
is no real reason to spend money on an arginine product because they are
self limiting.
Save your nickels guys!
BK
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07-17-2006, 05:27 AM #10
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07-17-2006, 08:28 AM #11
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07-17-2006, 08:39 AM #12
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07-17-2006, 08:47 AM #13
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07-17-2006, 08:54 AM #14
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07-17-2006, 10:54 AM #15
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07-17-2006, 11:02 AM #16
arginine was banned in Canada
our country is really strict on supps though, anything that even hints at hGH release gets capped quick.
seriously though Health Canada did studies showing that arginine can cause death in people with heart disease or people who've had heart attacks
I stopped taking it only because I heard it should be cycled and not used everyday
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07-17-2006, 11:33 AM #17
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07-22-2006, 07:33 PM #18
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07-22-2006, 09:52 PM #19Originally Posted by RSobkowz
that a supplement company selling a fancy salt/ester of arginine has
posted on their website?
L-Arginine and the HCL salt are EXCEEDINGLY well absorbed from the GI tract.
The only real merit to a funky salt/ester is it potentially allows for a longer
half life or it has 'something else useful' (e.g. malic acid) attached to it.
There is a very good reason why the type of arginine found behind the
counter at pharmacies and made by big pharma is of the plain-Jane
L-Arginine base or HCl variant.
It's cheap and effective.
However, I admit really cool sounding salts/esters probably sell a whole lot
better to guys in the gym.
Anyone want to purchase L-Arginine-4-O-beta-D-galactopyranosyl-D-gluconate from me? It's a wicked cool and highly absorbable type of
arginine. The 4-O-beta-D-galactopyranosyl-D-gluconate salt is a wicked
cool high tech way to adminstered macrolide antibiotics.
Oh, and it costs like $119/783g tub of the super secret "matrix" of
15 servings. But man, it is WAYYYY beyone nitric oxide. Way beyond!
A free tub of SizeOn to the first guy/gal who can PM what the more
common name for 4-O-beta-D-galactopyranosyl-D-gluconate is.
Buy the cheapest (real) L-Arginine supplement you can and do not exceed
3-5g every 2-3 days MAX.
BK
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07-22-2006, 09:54 PM #20Originally Posted by AygunGuric
increasing strength. It might give you a nice temporary "pump" though.
And it is no better than plain, cheap L-Arg or the HCl salt.
3g of AAKG would be equal to LESS than 3g of plain L-Arg.
Try taking the arginine supplement(s) every second or third day - they'll
work better and you'll save money.
You're welcome.
BK
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07-22-2006, 09:56 PM #21
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07-22-2006, 10:49 PM #22
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07-22-2006, 11:15 PM #23
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07-23-2006, 01:04 AM #24Originally Posted by Kohen_Gadol
When I said poorest absorbed of the bunch where did I say it is POORLY absorbed? In comparison to the other forms, AAKG, and AEE it is the poorEST absorbed. Never said it sucks as you seem to think. Find me studies proving HCl is more bioavailable than the AAKG or AEE if you have them handy. I'm not being a dick, if the proof is there I want to read it. I'm saying that with a totally open mind so fi you can come up with them please post them.
Personally I have a couple bottles of HCl, 4 bottles of AE2, a bottle of Niox, and a few others sitting on top of my gun safe. I come across the stuff dirt cheap and I give them a shot. Hell the 4 bottles of AE2 ran me 24 bucks total for 960 capsules. I can honestly say I get a better "pump" from the fancy versions of arginine which I actually was almost hoping I wouldn't. I was and am a fan of the HCl version simply for the cost and the fact that it's not over-marketed by every supplement company on the face of the earth. Luckily I came across all the other makes of it at prices actually below that of regular HCl so I had to give them a shot.
And if you base your post on what big pharma does, more power to you, I'm glad for you.
-Ronhttp://bodyspace.bodybuilding.com/RSobkowz/
Please look and leave some comments!
"Destroy to recreate. Disassemble, to assemble something pure." -Mudvayne
"All men WERE created equal. Some of us just choose to bust our asses and BECOME better." -Me
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07-23-2006, 01:19 AM #25Originally Posted by Kohen_Gadolhttp://bodyspace.bodybuilding.com/RSobkowz/
Please look and leave some comments!
"Destroy to recreate. Disassemble, to assemble something pure." -Mudvayne
"All men WERE created equal. Some of us just choose to bust our asses and BECOME better." -Me
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08-04-2006, 10:54 PM #26
Arginine blood flow stimulators ("nitric-oxide" or "NO2" supplements) have been shown to increase vasodilation, but only in unfed people receiving enormous doses through an IV.
• Oral arginine supplementation doesn't affect blood flow.
• A dose as low as 10 grams has been associated with gastric upset when consumed orally. This dose has no significant effect on glycogen storage, even if it didn't cause diarrhea.
• Time release arginine is supposed to lead to a "perpetual pump" effect. New studies have shown this not to be the case.
• NO2 was shown to have no effect compared to a placebo on body composition or muscle strength.
• It's not possible for us to consume high enough levels of arginine to effectively increase nitric oxide levels.
• Copycat NO2 products are no better than the original supplement. In fact, those that contain glycocyamine should be avoided because of potential health concerns.
• If you think these products work for you, then you'd better look into the placebo effect.
• Arginine might temporarily elevate growth hormone levels, but only if you're able to take unrealistic doses. There's little evidence to support that this short term increase in GH would do anything for your physique anyway.
• In one study, arginine aspartate was shown to increase prolactin by an average of 75%. Prolactin is associated with decreased Testosterone levels.
• Five grams of arginine consumed during resistance exercise was shown to decrease normal exercise-induced GH output.
• The positive benefits of oral arginine supplementation can only be achieved through doses higher than the human body can handle. And most (but not all) of this effect is mediated by insulin. So if you want to have blood flow increases equivalent to a huge IV arginine infusion, just manipulate insulin through other means
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08-04-2006, 11:59 PM #27
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08-05-2006, 12:04 AM #28Originally Posted by RSobkowz
Sorry, no problems.
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7. Buvat J, Lemaire A. Endocrine screening in 1,022 men with erectile dysfunction: clinical significance and cost-effective strategy. J Urol. 1997 Nov;158(5):1764-7
8. Campbell B, Baer J, Roberts M, Vacanti T, Marcello B, Thomas A, Kerksick C, Wilborn, C, Rohle D, Taylor L, Rasmussen C, Greenwood M, Wilson R, Kreider R. Effects of arginine alpha-ketoglutarate supplementation on body composition and training adaptations. Sports Nutrition Review Journal 1 (1): S10, 2004
9. Castillo L, Sanchez M, Vogt J, Chapman TE, DeRojas-Walker TC, Tannenbaum SR, Ajami AM, Young VR. Plasma arginine, citrulline, and ornithine kinetics in adults, with observations on nitric oxide synthesis. Am J Physiol. 1995 Feb;268(2 Pt 1):E360-7
10. Chaput de Saintonge DM, Herxheimer A. Harnessing placebo effects in health care Lancet. 1994 Oct 8;344(8928):995-8
11. Chin-Dusting JP, Alexander CT, Arnold PJ, Hodgson WC, Lux AS, Jennings GL. Effects of in vivo and in vitro -arginine supplementation on healthy human vessels. J. Cardiovasc. Pharmacol. 28 (1996), pp. 158—166
12. Chin-Dusting JP, Kaye DM, Lefkovits J, Wong J, Bergin P, Jennings GL. Dietary supplementation with -arginine fails to restore endothelial function in forearm resistance arteries in patients with severe heart failure. J. Am. Coll. Cardiol. 27 (1996), pp. 1207—1213
13. Dela F, Mikines KJ, Tronier B, Galbo H. Diminished arginine-stimulated insulin secretion in trained men. J Appl Physiol. 1990 Jul;69(1):261-7
14. Gater DR, Gater DA, Uribe JM, Bunt JC. Effects of arginine/lysine supplementation and resistance training on glucose tolerance. J Appl Physiol. 1992 Apr;72(4):1279-84
15. Giugliano D, Marfella R, Verrazzo G, Acampora R, Coppola L, Cozzolino D, D'Onofrio F The vascular effects of L-Arginine in humans. The role of endogenous insulin. J Clin Invest. 1997 Feb 1;99(3):433-8
16. Hardin DS, Azzarelli B, Edwards J, Wigglesworth J, Maianu L, Brechtel G, Johnson A, Baron A, Garvey WT. Mechanisms of enhanced insulin sensitivity in endurance-trained athletes: effects on blood flow and differential expression of GLUT 4 in skeletal muscles. J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 1995 Aug;80(8):2437-46
17. Hishikawa K, Nakaki T, Tsuda M, Esumi H, Ohshima H, Suzuki H, Saruta T, Kato R. Effect of systemic L-arginine administration on hemodynamics and nitric oxide release in man. Jpn Heart J. 1992 Jan;33(1):41-8
18. Kerksick C, Campbell B, Taylor L., Wilborn C, Rasmussen C, Vacanti T, Greenwood M, Bowden R, Wilson R, Kreider R. Pharmacokinetic profile of time released and non-time released Arginine. Sports Nutrition Review Journal 1 (1): S9, 2004
19. Kirsch I, and Sapirstein G. Listening to Prozac but Hearing Placebo:
A Meta-Analysis of Antidepressant Medication Prevention & Treatment, Volume 1, Article 0002a, posted June 26, 1998
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21. Kurz S, Harrison DG. Insulin and the arginine paradox. J Clin Invest. 1997 Feb 1;99(3):369-70
22. Ivy JL, Goforth HW Jr, Damon BM, McCauley TR, Parsons EC, Price TB.Early postexercise muscle glycogen recovery is enhanced with a carbohydrate-protein supplement. J Appl Physiol. 2002 Oct;93(4):1337-44
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24. Marcell TJ, Taaffe DR, Hawkins SA, Tarpenning KM, Pyka G, Kohlmeier L, Wiswell RA, Marcus R. Oral arginine does not stimulate basal or augment exercise-induced GH secretion in either young or old adults. J Gerontol A Biol Sci Med Sci. 1999 Aug;54(8):M395-9
25. Richmonds CR, Kaminski HJ. Nitric oxide synthase expression and effects of nitric oxide modulation on contractility of rat extraocular muscle., FASEB J. 2001 Aug;15(10):1764-70
26. Robinson TM, Sewell DA, Greenhaff PL. L-arginine ingestion after rest and exercise: effects on glucose disposal. Med Sci Sports Exerc. 2003 Aug;35(8):1309-15
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29. Yaspelkis, BB, III, and Ivy JL. The effect of a carbohydrate-arginine supplement on post-exercise carbohydrate metabolism. Int J Sport Nutr 9: 241-250, 1999
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08-05-2006, 01:24 AM #29Originally Posted by Karl Moen
http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/ahc-asc/media...2006_30_e.html
My father has been supplementing with a supplement containing arginine in it, and has had a heart attack in the past. I will have to look up the study referrenced.HORMONEMAN- worst rep on bb.com (WORST COMPANY owner) Steve Protein Factory is catching up (Edit: He's there).
Read these threads:
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=651142
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=650455
HORMONEMAN's lies confirmed:
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=662222
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08-05-2006, 01:45 AM #30
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