The Mixed Martial arts for Self Defense Thread.

[ChingChang_Chow]

We already have a thread on MMA on here but I noticed it primarily deals with the UFC and MMA as a competitive sport. I am personally not interested in martial arts as a sport but I am very interested in learning it for real life self defense.

I believe competitive MMA and fighting in the streets are different things. Your opponent won't walk away after tapping out, your opponent won't have to comply with any rules. Its very important to make the distincition between the sport and the self defense art. So feel free to discuss about anything from Muay Thai and BJJ to Krav Maga and Kali as long as its relevant in real life.


Note - I am probably annoying you now but I will say this again, I made this thread specifically to discuss martial arts for streetfights and NOT for UFC/PRIDE discussions. Please keep those out of here. There is another MMA thread on here which deals with the sport so post about the UFC in that thread.

[maori-rap]

After seeing films like Ong-bak, I would definetly go for Muay Thai over anything other combat style when it comes for street brawling. The idea of using your strongest body part against their weakest sounds about right. ie. knee to face, elbow to head. Plus you don't have to be all that strong to do it. I know Tony Jaa is top of his game, but he took that huge muscle man down in a matter of moves.

[Kaiser Sose]

Krav Maga

Word up.

[Super Man]

ima stick to my bas rutten videos

[lolerskatez]

I do BJJ, i have no striking training. However when the situation arises in which i need to fight, im going to stand up and fight every time rather than try to drag the person down and pull guard...

However if most fights do end on the ground like said, maybe the BJJ would have its uses?

[nutsy54]

Even without the rules & limitations, someone with MMA experience would fare much better against an untrained opponent. This biggest hurdle would be to remove the rules and limitations from your own mind as well. For example, you wouldn't apply an arm bar to get him to tap, you'd apply it to break his arm or dislocate his shoulder. . .

[adoniscomplex]

as far as regular street fights go anyone with some martial arts training and is of comparable size should be able to take out their opp. most people tellagraph their punches really bad so if you are exp with dodging punches they are going to have a hard time hitting you and almost every street fight i have ever been in i won in one punch so in my exp. one solid hit can from you can very much end the fight

[ChingChang_Chow]

Originally Posted by nutsy54

Even without the rules & limitations, someone with MMA experience would fare much better against an untrained opponent. This biggest hurdle would be to remove the rules and limitations from your own mind as well. For example, you wouldn't apply an arm bar to get him to tap, you'd apply it to break his arm or dislocate his shoulder. . .

I agree, which is why I have tried to get myself away from the popular thinking that surrounds the sports aspect of MMA. In a real life fight, the goals are quite different and you have to get into that mentality.

[daYDreAmErX]

Krav maga all the way. I'm kickboxing, but I do krav maga also and I do like it.

[Capy]

only good for stand up and ong bak was more traditional muay thai, not practical

you need some wrestling ability and BJJ on the ground

[Capy]

Originally Posted by nutsy54

Even without the rules & limitations, someone with MMA experience would fare much better against an untrained opponent. This biggest hurdle would be to remove the rules and limitations from your own mind as well. For example, you wouldn't apply an arm bar to get him to tap, you'd apply it to break his arm or dislocate his shoulder. . .

i like your way of thinking

[bearfan34201]

I would like to take martial arts, Do you guys have any reccomendatioins for me? I want to be able to protect myself if some ******* starts freaking out at me and I need to fight. I believe Martial Arts will give me more confidence in me fighting if I have too

[FateXxX]

I love BJJ and Muay Tai. Before I actually went to a traning center, my brother taught me some moves rolling around a few times, I was hooked!

Now, you grapple with me in a real fight and your arm is coming off .

[guest89]

Originally Posted by maori-rap

After seeing films like Ong-bak, I would definetly go for Muay Thai over anything other combat style when it comes for street brawling. The idea of using your strongest body part against their weakest sounds about right. ie. knee to face, elbow to head. Plus you don't have to be all that strong to do it. I know Tony Jaa is top of his game, but he took that huge muscle man down in a matter of moves.

Dude, the fight scenes where from a MOVIE, you seriously think they where really fighting? That barely qualified as Muay Thai IMO... At least not whats taught today, for actuall fighting.


His stance was off, way off. Looked like some TKD or Karate BS with a few Muay Thai strikes thrown in..




With that said Muay Thai is really a top choice for street fighting, right under a .45ACP.






Bas Ruttens tape on street self defence is top notch, im sure you've all seen the small clip from youtube named, well his real tape is 1 hour and 44 minutes I think, its awesome. He shows how to defend against weapons and stuff, he also shows you how to fight dirty.

[guest89]

Originally Posted by FateXxX

I love BJJ and Muay Tai. Before I actually went to a traning center, my brother taught me some moves rolling around a few times, I was hooked!

Now, you grapple with me in a real fight and your arm is coming off .

But if I've friends standing around and you take me to the ground your going to prolly get your face kicked in right as you try to break my arm.

BJJ isnt good for street fighting, also while your about to break an arm or a leg whats to stop me from using my other arm from pulling a knife and stabbing you. Sure I walk out with a broken bone but you will be dead, you wouldnt even see the knife coming.

The ground is the last place you wanna go in a street fight. Because no rules apply to a street fight, if someone took me down using BJJ or wrestling I wouldnt hesitate to stick a knife in them.


If you stay standing you can always grab a bigger weapon if someone pulls a knife, at least you'll see it coming and be able to run. And its alot easier to keep your opponents friends off you.

[FateXxX]

Originally Posted by guest89

But if I've friends standing around and you take me to the ground your going to prolly get your face kicked in right as you try to break my arm.

BJJ isnt good for street fighting, also while your about to break an arm or a leg whats to stop me from using my other arm from pulling a knife and stabbing you. Sure I walk out with a broken bone but you will be dead, you wouldnt even see the knife coming.

The ground is the last place you wanna go in a street fight. Because no rules apply to a street fight, if someone took me down using BJJ or wrestling I wouldnt hesitate to stick a knife in them.


If you stay standing you can always grab a bigger weapon if someone pulls a knife, at least you'll see it coming and be able to run. And its alot easier to keep your opponents friends off you.

What's going to stop you is the pain and disfunction of your said limb. Not every street fight is a guy taking out a knife.

That's the thing bro. You're not going to get into a fight with 1 guy and his 10 friends all alone. That's one of the stupidist things you can do.

Actually, no. I'm great at both ground and standup, however, the majority of fights DO end up on the ground. After snapping someone's arm, do you think they're going to be so macho as to continue fighting? I don't think so.

[SpeedDemon9]

Originally Posted by lolerskatez

I do BJJ, i have no striking training. However when the situation arises in which i need to fight, im going to stand up and fight every time rather than try to drag the person down and pull guard...

However if most fights do end on the ground like said, maybe the BJJ would have its uses?

I have BJJ training and also train in striking. I'll never take a person to the ground if I can avoid it. I have long arms and legs so my best bet is to use them as my advantage.

[guest89]

Originally Posted by FateXxX

What's going to stop you is the pain and disfunction of your said limb. Not every street fight is a guy taking out a knife.

That's the thing bro. You're not going to get into a fight with 1 guy and his 10 friends all alone. That's one of the stupidist things you can do.

Actually, no. I'm great at both ground and standup, however, the majority of fights DO end up on the ground. After snapping someone's arm, do you think they're going to be so macho as to continue fighting? I don't think so.

1) No, but you NEVER know when some crazy fxcker will pull a knife on you. It takes less then a second for someone to pull a knife and stab you, from you having no idea they are carrying a knife to you feeling blade in your chest. When your grappling it isnt easy to watch both of the guys hands... Sure if you can snap his arm quickly you win. But if not...


2) Sometimes you CANT pick your fight, you are forced to fight when you've no friends around, or sometimes you might be able to run.

3) If you train MMA you should DOMINATE your average street fight, before it gets to the ground.






Im pretty short so im at a disadvantage with standup, but I still stick to it everytime for a streetfight. Im better off on the ground or grappling because my height doesnt matter on the ground. But I dont like the risks you take on the ground.





With that said I avoid all fights possible, I think its best not to fight if you can get out of it.

[wanaBsedated]

Originally Posted by ChingChang_Chow

I believe competitive MMA and fighting in the streets are different things. Your opponent won't walk away after tapping out, your opponent won't have to comply with any rules. Its very important to make the distincition between the sport and the self defense art.

The difference between mma and the street..is you DONT stop applying the submission lol..you break or choke out. Do you know anything about submission wrestling at all? Or are you justa nother spectator who talks about MMA? The holds and moves in grappling can easily cripple someone..at least temporarily.

Yea and everyone knows boxing, kickboxing..that will never knock anyone out in the street...:::eyeroll::: And krav maga..for the most part is all bull****. If you can find REAL krav maga. go for it..but there are other alternitives.

[ChingChang_Chow]

Originally Posted by wanaBsedated

The difference between mma and the street..is you DONT stop applying the submission lol..you break or choke out. Do you know anything about submission wrestling at all? Or are you justa nother spectator who talks about MMA? The holds and moves in grappling can easily cripple someone..at least temporarily.

Yea and everyone knows boxing, kickboxing..that will never knock anyone out in the street...:::eyeroll::: And krav maga..for the most part is all bull****. If you can find REAL krav maga. go for it..but there are other alternitives.

Wow thank you for informing me that. I mean I seriously had no idea they could cripple anyone else.

We all know you indeed are the ultimate expert on all kinds of martial arts and have absolute authority to decide which martial arts work and which don't.

Ok smart guy, I'll be serious now.. your brain obviously have no idea how human psychology works. When you train for sports your mind becomes conditioned to that kind of thinking. For example a fighter who has originally trained in Muay thai but has competed in events that donot allow the use of elbows won't use the elbow automatically in a real fight simply because his mind would be conditioned to believe that elbows are illegal. By the time he would try hit an elbow against the conditioning of his mind, the opponent would have knocked him out. Same for submission holds, unless you develop the mentality to hurt, you won't be able to do much damage since your mind would always work against you. I hope you have enough information to comprehend my original argument.

PS - If you think stand up fighting could never knock out a person on the street, then honestly you are an idiot and need to get knocked the hell out by someone who trains in Muay Thai/Boxing.

[dixon]

Why would anyone train MMA for street fights? Honestly?

I train MMA because I love the sport. A street fight is a whole different situation entirely.

A guy who wants to attack you on the street will do so because he has an advantage. Whether that's buddies around the corner, or having a knife in his pocket, having years of martial arts training will mean nothing when he slices your throat and you don't even know he had a knife yet.

If anyone is getting into MMA to be safer on the street, you're doing it for the wrong reasons. Get a liscence for concealed carry or something.

If you don't want to get beat up in a fight, don't run your mouth off at bars or clubs. Learn the psychology of a criminal and know how to diffuse situations. You will avoid 99% of fight situations entirely if you are just a level-headed guy and don't get into **** at bars.

I think some of you guys must have a malevolent, violent personality where you want to kick the living **** out of another guy because you egged him on to swing at you outside a bar. Get a life. I hope that if you're picking fights instead of trying to diffuse them, you get the guy with a gun or you beat up a guy whose crew will come around to your house and kill you.

If you are genuinely interested in safety, go to http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/

[wanaBsedated]

Originally Posted by ChingChang_Chow

Wow thank you for informing me that. I mean I seriously had no idea they could cripple anyone else.

We all know you indeed are the ultimate expert on all kinds of martial arts and have absolute authority to decide which martial arts work and which don't.

Ok smart guy, I'll be serious now.. your brain obviously have no idea how human psychology works. When you train for sports your mind becomes conditioned to that kind of thinking. For example a fighter who has originally trained in Muay thai but has competed in events that donot allow the use of elbows won't use the elbow automatically in a real fight simply because his mind would be conditioned to believe that elbows are illegal. By the time he would try hit an elbow against the conditioning of his mind, the opponent would have knocked him out. Same for submission holds, unless you develop the mentality to hurt, you won't be able to do much damage since your mind would always work against you. I hope you have enough information to comprehend my original argument.

PS - If you think stand up fighting could never knock out a person on the street, then honestly you are an idiot and need to get knocked the hell out by someone who trains in Muay Thai/Boxing.

Listen **** face. Do you understand sarcasm about not being knocked out? I have been involved in MA for quite a while..it only takes a few extra pounds of force to dislocate or break a limb...you know NOTHING about MMA or MA..Your origional post is bull****, crap. When you apply a submission you bring it to near completion and it only takes another fraction of a second to complete a submission...are you telling me someone applying a heelhook in grappling class wont be able to turn his body another few degrees to finish off the move in teh street? HAHAHAHA! COME ON! Go watch some grappling vids..and you will see people get ****ed up by overzelous grapplers or making amistake trying to escape. I suggest a reality check..all you need to do is know how to do a sub, get the move down to complete one..LOL@ your attitude...you donno ****. Go to a sambo school and roll around and tell me if you dont believe me again.

[wanaBsedated]

Originally Posted by dixon

Why would anyone train MMA for street fights? Honestly?

I train MMA because I love the sport. A street fight is a whole different situation entirely.

A guy who wants to attack you on the street will do so because he has an advantage. Whether that's buddies around the corner, or having a knife in his pocket, having years of martial arts training will mean nothing when he slices your throat and you don't even know he had a knife yet.

If anyone is getting into MMA to be safer on the street, you're doing it for the wrong reasons. Get a liscence for concealed carry or something.

If you don't want to get beat up in a fight, don't run your mouth off at bars or clubs. Learn the psychology of a criminal and know how to diffuse situations. You will avoid 99% of fight situations entirely if you are just a level-headed guy and don't get into **** at bars.

I think some of you guys must have a malevolent, violent personality where you want to kick the living **** out of another guy because you egged him on to swing at you outside a bar. Get a life. I hope that if you're picking fights instead of trying to diffuse them, you get the guy with a gun or you beat up a guy whose crew will come around to your house and kill you.

If you are genuinely interested in safety, go to http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/

Wrong buzzer.

NOt everyone can get a conceiled permit and youre not always gonna have a weapon on you. Way to assume every situation is the same.

[dixon]

Originally Posted by wanaBsedated

Wrong buzzer.

NOt everyone can get a conceiled permit and youre not always gonna have a weapon on you.

That does not address anything important in my post. It's like you are half-retarded or can't read.

[wanaBsedated]

Originally Posted by dixon

That does not address anything important in my post. It's like you are half-retarded or can't read.

It addresses your strong assumptions on self defense.

People attack people with no provocation, many people can not carry or ever will carry, not everyone you beat up will know where you live lol.. You are ignoring the pychology..if you take down someone in a fight quickly and brutally his buddies are not gonna be so inclined to jump on you. How many fights actually involve an edged weapon or a firearm? VERY few..in that case your options change, unless you are defensing a loved one. It's like I am half retarded buts eeing the big picture...?? Good one..

[FateXxX]

Originally Posted by dixon

Why would anyone train MMA for street fights? Honestly?

I train MMA because I love the sport. A street fight is a whole different situation entirely.

A guy who wants to attack you on the street will do so because he has an advantage. Whether that's buddies around the corner, or having a knife in his pocket, having years of martial arts training will mean nothing when he slices your throat and you don't even know he had a knife yet.

If anyone is getting into MMA to be safer on the street, you're doing it for the wrong reasons. Get a liscence for concealed carry or something.

If you don't want to get beat up in a fight, don't run your mouth off at bars or clubs. Learn the psychology of a criminal and know how to diffuse situations. You will avoid 99% of fight situations entirely if you are just a level-headed guy and don't get into **** at bars.

I think some of you guys must have a malevolent, violent personality where you want to kick the living **** out of another guy because you egged him on to swing at you outside a bar. Get a life. I hope that if you're picking fights instead of trying to diffuse them, you get the guy with a gun or you beat up a guy whose crew will come around to your house and kill you.

If you are genuinely interested in safety, go to http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/

Because knowing how to fight is better than not knowing how to fight at all.

[FateXxX]

Also, I'd like to see where opinions are coming from, it's time to seperate the fans from the fighters. List the disciplines you train.

I do:

BJJ
Muay Tai

[wanaBsedated]

Originally Posted by FateXxX

Also, I'd like to see where opinions are coming from, it's time to seperate the fans from the fighters. List the disciplines you train.

I do:

BJJ
Muay Tai

Jeet kune do concepts-philosephy
integrated systems..muay thai, boxing, some WC some FMA mixed in.

Ground game..integrated grappling system..
BJJ
shoot wrestling
Sambo
FMA

I also train with a wrestler..folk-freestyle-greco a bit.

[ChingChang_Chow]

Originally Posted by wanaBsedated

Listen **** face. Do you understand sarcasm about not being knocked out? I have been involved in MA for quite a while..it only takes a few extra pounds of force to dislocate or break a limb...you know NOTHING about MMA or MA..Your origional post is bull****, crap. When you apply a submission you bring it to near completion and it only takes another fraction of a second to complete a submission...are you telling me someone applying a heelhook in grappling class wont be able to turn his body another few degrees to finish off the move in teh street? HAHAHAHA! COME ON! Go watch some grappling vids..and you will see people get ****ed up by overzelous grapplers or making amistake trying to escape. I suggest a reality check..all you need to do is know how to do a sub, get the move down to complete one..LOL@ your attitude...you donno ****. Go to a sambo school and roll around and tell me if you dont believe me again.

You obviously are low on intelligence. I won't even argue with you after posting this specific post because you are frankly too dumb to argue with.

Did I say, it was physically hard to complete a submission on the street? I am talking about mentality required to hurt someone else. Although you are not equipped with the necessary IQ levels to understand my example, I'll give it a try anyways. It's not physically difficult to take a loaded gun and shoot a person but if you have don't have the mentality to hurt you will tremble while pulling a trigger even if you are shooting his leg. Its the same thing (although not to the same level) with submission holds, you are doing something that could leave someone in extreme amounts of pain. You might even complete the hold but you will hesitate to hold for more than a couple seconds. if you aren't conditioned mentally to do it then you chances are somebody else will hurt you.


By the way, no I don't understand your little 'sarcastic remark' about not being knocked about because frankly I have no idea why you said that in the first place. A sarcastic remark needs to logically be preceded by another relevant remark and there was none so logically it had to be assumed you actually believed what you said...


Now you can go ahead and babble what you want.. but you need to understand that as long as your posts are not coherent, not many people will pay much attention

[ChingChang_Chow]

Originally Posted by FateXxX

Also, I'd like to see where opinions are coming from, it's time to seperate the fans from the fighters. List the disciplines you train.

I do:

BJJ
Muay Tai

Muay Thai and Brazilian Jujitsu although I have trained longer in Muay Thai.