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  1. #1
    musclar smurfette Sunshineslynn's Avatar
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    Angry New Amendments For Figure....Its sad.

    Following last weekends NPC Jnr Nationals the following amendments have been made to what the judges are looking for in figure:

    no leg definition whatsoever
    NO flared lats
    NO capped shoulders


    Well as most of you know I am a converted figure girl to bb. And this is shocking at most to me. I am disappointed about the new rules. What the hell are they thinking.

    Boy I knew this was happening. If you look back over the past competitions over the years you see the pros getting smaller. Monica Brant for example use to be very cut and pretty good size she has gotten smaller over the last 2 years due to judges telling her that she was to big. Some of them do not flex their legs at all in order for them to look smaller. Sad this is happening. But what can you do when you have so many girls coming in to compete that have never really lifted except for the pink dumbbells. I know my place now because after the last comp I was shafted due to being toooo cuttt. Oh well I would rather have fun with music and posing.

    I think the way we could boycott somehow like the shows that have only figure don't go to the shows dont support them. Maybe then if we hurt them in the pockets they will change the sport which was created for the people that did not want the size the women bb had and could not compete against the fitness girls. It was created for the girls who had fitness figures with out the fitness routine. Girls who had some good muscle mass but not to much. Nice legs with a nice back not the size of a bb and not the size of just a bikini girl.

    well I have vented enough. I am going to write to a friend of mine that is married to the East Coast Chairperson of NPC and see what the heck is going on.

    angry,
    S
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  2. #2
    Registered User strongwoman's Avatar
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    Post pictures of what you look like now
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  3. #3
    Registered User arose70's Avatar
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    strongwoman, you kinda creep me out. First starting the "Titania" thread and then telling S to post her pics?

    Don't you think it's a little weird? Why don't YOU post YOUR pics so we can see who you are? You've been requested to post pics quite a bit but have not. Why is that?

    You don't even have to respond to that....let's stay on topic of the new Amendments that are coming to Figure competitions.....
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  4. #4
    Fit mom of 2 terracotta's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by arose70
    strongwoman, you kinda creep me out. First starting the "Titania" thread and then telling S to post her pics?

    Don't you think it's a little weird? Why don't YOU post YOUR pics so we can see who you are? You've been requested to post pics quite a bit but have not. Why is that?

    You don't even have to respond to that....let's stay on topic of the new Amendments that are coming to Figure competitions.....
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/search...archid=7773172 ... very odd post history

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  5. #5
    Registered User violetdays's Avatar
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    Ugh!!! I am with you on those amendments they suck IMO.

    I am not a competitor but I do respect figure, fitness and bb as a sport. If they wanted to go natural they should introduce blood testing like in the Olympics - PERIOD.

    Figure comps really should not be reduced to Bikini Contests - those are a dime a dozen and much more profitable BTW. I have had a friend who lived in Floriday doing the round of bikini contest (several bars have them some topless and the beach contests) she was making anywhere between 1000-2000 US a week! Heck, in Canada we just had the CHIN Bikini contest.

    Figure should be a elite sport for muscles....it angers me that they changed the rules...this will put the natural mesomorphs at a disadvantage.

    I have another acquaintance/freind who was a competitive gymnast till the age of 15, she is now 33 and hasn't trained or picked up a weight or worked out since 15 YET her arms are as muscular as mine, she has a better quad sweep and she carries a lower bf% than me without diet. Clearly, she is genetically gifted I would love to see her results if she competed.

    Why would I whine it isn't fair? That strikes me as petty and absurd....in all honesty I would not want to see the Olympics become the competition of the "genetically average" so it peeves me to no end that the NPC in attempt to make the sport more popular and "natural" would choose to underplay muscular development rather than introduce blood testing for steriods.

    People should write to the NPC and explain the are already enough bikini contests and it is doubtful they will be able to offer enough money to lure the "bikini" elite girls. (Think Daytona beach winners, Hawaiin Tropic bikini contest, etc.)

    Edit: Oh yea, lets not forget Sport Illustrated Swimsuit: it pays 1 million $ USD to be in there - heck if I had the genetics to be a super bikini elite girl - I'd do it! Playboy pays 25 thousand US for a playmate. What is wrong with the NPC down playing muscle??? I will go think of something else rather than the humiliation and undermining of a sport that was orignally meant to judge muscular devlopment. Does the NPC really hope to attact the bikini elite?

    We can all understand why this would help "popularize" the sport and perhaps bring in more sponsors.
    Last edited by violetdays; 07-03-2006 at 11:19 AM.
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  6. #6
    Work and Play alohafitness's Avatar
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    I see your point. But I don't think it's quite as dramatic a shift as you percieve it to be. Figure was created for women who are not on AAS in order to gain xtreme amounts of muscle and be xtremely lean (less than 10%) like a bodybuilder. Figure was created for women who are not gymnasts (like the fitness girls) but who still possess a well-developed, symmetrycal, lean (12-15%) physique. Yes, I have seen girls be told that they are too lean, but usually they lack good symmetry (lats not big enough, waist-hip ratio not big enough, legs are stringy and undefined, arms are stringy, hard upper/soft lower, etc.) I have seen girls not place because they had too much muscle and looked like bodybuilders--and so they should compete in bodybuilding, because Figure is all about femininity, the S-curve, the overall package (hair, nails, suit) like a beauty pageant. I think it's been heading in this direction from the very beginning.
    As for the pros...most of them came from bodybuilding or fitness. They still carried unusually large amounts of muscle for being women, and thus didn't represent the ideals of figure (no AAS) very well, so yeah, they responded by losing muscle. They are still unusually lean and I believe most compete around 8%, some lower, but lower doesn't place as well.
    The shows I've seen, yeah, sometimes I think they choose women who are too soft/underdeveloped (a 'la bikini girls), but these women have great symmetry and good stage presence, and none of 'em are too skinny (a 'la bikini girls). Most of the time, though, I have agreed with the judges--based on what I know of the NPC's expectations (that's what I compete in).
    This is my 2 cents.
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  7. #7
    Registered User violetdays's Avatar
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    Here is a link to 2006 USA gymnastic team scroll down on the page to see their legs:

    http://espn-att.starwave.com/media/o..._raducan_i.jpg

    http://www.passbracing.com/images/mo...ross_17_bg.jpg

    http://www.usa-gymnastics.org/acro/2...rlds/iagc.html

    How is that too muscular for the NPC?

    To make my post more clear my friend and Monica Brant (as well as most Fitness competitors) were limited to what level of gymanstics they could compete in due to being too muscular. Myself, on the other hand was told my muscular development was perfect for gynmastics. I grew to 5' and and hit early puberty so I was bumped from the competitive track for elite - so that means yes I did my first provincial comp (locally televisedat 11.) In other words I get very strong but remain tiny and light.

    So again, I believe the natural competition the NPC is after would be better acheived with blood testing for steroids just like in the Olympics.
    Last edited by violetdays; 07-03-2006 at 12:01 PM.
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  8. #8
    fallen angel darkangel's Avatar
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    I just picked up the latest issue of Oxygen that features Monica and a shoulder workout. She does not look "small" to me in any way, shape or form. She is very cut. And getting a nice shoulder cap like hers was kinda the whole point of the article.
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  9. #9
    musclar smurfette Sunshineslynn's Avatar
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    Yes, I agree with you that is exactly what I posted just in different words. I am just disappointed to see it go in that direction completely as you see they want NO legs, no flaring, no shoulder caps. I had shoulder caps even before I worked out. I am just disappointed they are asking for such drastic things. I understand it to be the whole stage presence, the whole package but like you and I both stated that figure was created for girls that don't have the mass the bb women have and dont have the gymnastics background the fitness has but atleast still have the legs and body for it.


    Originally Posted by alohafitness
    I see your point. But I don't think it's quite as dramatic a shift as you percieve it to be. Figure was created for women who are not on AAS in order to gain xtreme amounts of muscle and be xtremely lean (less than 10%) like a bodybuilder. Figure was created for women who are not gymnasts (like the fitness girls) but who still possess a well-developed, symmetrycal, lean (12-15%) physique. Yes, I have seen girls be told that they are too lean, but usually they lack good symmetry (lats not big enough, waist-hip ratio not big enough, legs are stringy and undefined, arms are stringy, hard upper/soft lower, etc.) I have seen girls not place because they had too much muscle and looked like bodybuilders--and so they should compete in bodybuilding, because Figure is all about femininity, the S-curve, the overall package (hair, nails, suit) like a beauty pageant. I think it's been heading in this direction from the very beginning.
    As for the pros...most of them came from bodybuilding or fitness. They still carried unusually large amounts of muscle for being women, and thus didn't represent the ideals of figure (no AAS) very well, so yeah, they responded by losing muscle. They are still unusually lean and I believe most compete around 8%, some lower, but lower doesn't place as well.
    The shows I've seen, yeah, sometimes I think they choose women who are too soft/underdeveloped (a 'la bikini girls), but these women have great symmetry and good stage presence, and none of 'em are too skinny (a 'la bikini girls). Most of the time, though, I have agreed with the judges--based on what I know of the NPC's expectations (that's what I compete in).
    This is my 2 cents.
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  10. #10
    musclar smurfette Sunshineslynn's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by darkangel
    I just picked up the latest issue of Oxygen that features Monica and a shoulder workout. She does not look "small" to me in any way, shape or form. She is very cut. And getting a nice shoulder cap like hers was kinda the whole point of the article.

    She is alot smaller than she was when she was in fitness and when figure first started. She has even admitted to getting smaller to please the judges. If you look back you will see what I am talking about. I have been following her since the 90's and she has gotten smaller.
    Last edited by Sunshineslynn; 07-03-2006 at 02:49 PM.
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  11. #11
    little person syndrome sillyvent's Avatar
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    This pissed me the f*** off for a number of reasons! They tell me I'm not supposed to have leg definition, BUT my abs have to be killer! Well for me in order to have killer abs I need to be pretty lean which is going to mean leg definition!!! No capped shoulders and no flared lats is ridiculous....if they are going to change figure THIS much they should just get rid of it! I've spent the last year bulking...focusing on my shoulders and lats and now I can't even show them off....stupid ^&*#($^# amendments. Ok my rants over now.....
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  12. #12
    Queen Miranda to you Miranda's Avatar
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    if that's the way it's going its really sad.

    there are a lot of subsections to figure in holland; miss fitness, miss superbody etc. those are usually girls with no noticeable muscle mass (ie, 'sporty' looking) and they look like concentration camp victims to me. it really bothers me women aren't supposed to look strong. if the goal is to look as skinny as possible without muscle then why not change the title into ''anorexic of the year'' ?
    Last edited by Miranda; 07-04-2006 at 12:28 AM.
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  13. #13
    Buff bride to be imperfectly_lou's Avatar
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    I don't agree with some of what you've said alohafitness. The girls in figure are wayyy below 15% BF... most of them are in the 8%-10% region, even in amateur comps. There is also just as much use of performance enhancing drugs in figure as there is in fitness and BBing - its just not as "hardcore" because the drugs of choice are not always the same.
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  14. #14
    I likes to hide.... Mango's Avatar
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    What the hell are flared lats??

    arose: you rock!!
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  15. #15
    Corporate Thug/Bully Sable_Strenua's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by strongwoman
    Post pictures of what you look like now
    ^^^^ creepy....

    anyways, this is distrubing. I was thinking about trying to do a figure or fitness comp one day...but the way the NPC continuously keeps revamping the sport - seemingly on fickle whims makes me reconsider the whole thing.

    i read about how the NPC does not account for its funds/profits to its members as other organizations do (providing documentation of what dues/fees are for, how they are allocated, so on and so forth)

    doesn't that sound a bit suspicious to others as well?
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  16. #16
    Badass in Training *supermomma*'s Avatar
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    The thing that sucks is that those of us who really want to build a no-**** badass physique will no longer be viable figure competitors, and in order to go pro in BB, most (if not all) women use AAS.

    So, it's either subpar physique, or (at least in the US) breaking the law.

    Or not competing at all...

    I think I am just gonna get huge and ripped, and then walk around town showing off... at least there's still that .

    If they want figure to be a beauty pageant, all they need to do is start testing BB, and all of the naturals who want a real well-muscled body can compete. Right now, it seems like there is nowhere to turn for a natural BBer...
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    On a mission Simpy's Avatar
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    Where did you find this information? I have been looking and can't seem to find anything other than this post that explains the new rules. I was hoping to read up a little more on it.
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    musclar smurfette Sunshineslynn's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Simpy
    Where did you find this information? I have been looking and can't seem to find anything other than this post that explains the new rules. I was hoping to read up a little more on it.

    Me too. A friend of mine told me about it who is also a competitor/trainer. So let me ask her. I will let you know shortly

    Smiles
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    You know Lynn; this follows the same line of thinking that caused the rules for female BB'ing to be changed. The pro's there are now supposed to come in with 20% less muscle. I ask, less muscle than what?

    It's all perception and business. They perceive that the less muscular women are more sellable to advertisers and the public at large. The promoters of these shows are really in it for the money (it's a business after all) and will do whatever they think necessary to bring in a wider audience. It's unfortunate, but it's the way things are going.

    Most of the public, male and female, have no respect or admiration for those who have honed their bodies in the gym. I think it reminds them to much of the hard work it takes to really look good and be healthy, and it makes them feel guilty.

    Anyway, from a guy’s perspective, I agree with you. It’s just damn sad what the rules committee’s are doing to women’s competitive Figure/Fitness/BB'ing.
    Last edited by ShadowRydr; 07-05-2006 at 01:40 PM.
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    posted in Muscle Mayhem

    Jessica just got out of a meeting with the Head Judge Sandy Ranalli and all the figure athletes. They had a meeting to set the record straight on what type of physique they will be rewarding from here on out. They did this after the show so all the girls would know. This is the look for 2006 and on, not what was rewarded in the past.


    *They do not want the capped off shoulder look and flaring lats
    *Arms are to be by the side and relaxed(Notice Nina's)
    *They do not what a girl ripped to shreds. They WANT them soft.
    *Absolutely no separtion in the legs


    Sandy said that many of the girls would make good light-weight bodybuilders

    The One Piece brings in elements of pageantry which is another aspect that separates figure from the other physique competitions.

    Maybe this helps. Look under: meeting after the show....future judging of figure?
    "You can't take some pill and hope your fat will jump off of you like you have the plague. You must work out and eat clean to have a lean, green, fighting machine." Sunshineslynn

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    Thanks! Looking it up now
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    Well I know what you are talking about I was just in a comp where a girl won that didn't have a lick of muscle on her body but she was skinny top to bottom.
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    Originally Posted by imperfectly_lou
    I don't agree with some of what you've said alohafitness. The girls in figure are wayyy below 15% BF... most of them are in the 8%-10% region, even in amateur comps. There is also just as much use of performance enhancing drugs in figure as there is in fitness and BBing - its just not as "hardcore" because the drugs of choice are not always the same.
    I've competed in the NPC and I have hardly seen any figure competitors who were under 10% except at the NATIONAL or PRO level. That is my observation. I beg to differ that there is NOT AS MUCH anabolic steroid use in figure as in bodybuilding, but I am aware that plenty of girls use Clen to lean out.
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    Originally Posted by Sunshineslynn
    posted in Muscle Mayhem

    Jessica just got out of a meeting with the Head Judge Sandy Ranalli and all the figure athletes. They had a meeting to set the record straight on what type of physique they will be rewarding from here on out. They did this after the show so all the girls would know. This is the look for 2006 and on, not what was rewarded in the past.


    *They do not want the capped off shoulder look and flaring lats
    *Arms are to be by the side and relaxed(Notice Nina's)
    *They do not what a girl ripped to shreds. They WANT them soft.
    *Absolutely no separtion in the legs


    Sandy said that many of the girls would make good light-weight bodybuilders

    The One Piece brings in elements of pageantry which is another aspect that separates figure from the other physique competitions.

    Maybe this helps. Look under: meeting after the show....future judging of figure?

    I've been following this on Mayhem for a while and there is a clarification on the legs....what they mean is not to flex your quads when posing to show seperations. It doesn't mean that your legs should be completely smooth IMO. The posing is changing...they don't want women flexing as hard.

    There is also supposed to be an annoucement of a new bodybuilding division for women who want to stay on the less extreme side...this will most likely be what our current figure girls/ex-bodybuilders will be able to compete it.

    Lastly, what they say should be and what actually happens are two different things. The judges are not all following the same criteria across the board unfortunately so the true test will be to see who the winners will be....if they are softer, smoother and less muscular.
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    Originally Posted by Simpy
    Where did you find this information? I have been looking and can't seem to find anything other than this post that explains the new rules. I was hoping to read up a little more on it.
    This information is on Musclemayhem.com in their forums sections. Please remember that these are forums where a lot of people talk and discuss different issues....it's not all OFFICIAL but rumors, talks etc.
    Last edited by mommy*2*3; 07-08-2006 at 06:41 AM.
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    Excellent Point Mommy*2*3!

    Originally Posted by mommy*2*3
    Lastly, what they say should be and what actually happens are two different things. The judges are not all following the same criteria across the board unfortunately so the true test will be to see who the winners will be....if they are softer, smoother and less muscular.
    Excellent point Mommy*2*3! The NPC Nationals are coming up in a couple of weeks and a good thing to do is to study the physiques of the girls who place there. No matter what the rules are on paper, I would never enter a competition without studying the girls who placed in previous years to see what the judges, independently of the organization, are looking for.
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    Thumbs up

    Originally Posted by Sunshineslynn View Post
    Following last weekends NPC Jnr Nationals the following amendments have been made to what the judges are looking for in figure:

    no leg definition whatsoever
    NO flared lats
    NO capped shoulders


    Well as most of you know I am a converted figure girl to bb. And this is shocking at most to me. I am disappointed about the new rules. What the hell are they thinking.

    Boy I knew this was happening. If you look back over the past competitions over the years you see the pros getting smaller. Monica Brant for example use to be very cut and pretty good size she has gotten smaller over the last 2 years due to judges telling her that she was to big. Some of them do not flex their legs at all in order for them to look smaller. Sad this is happening. But what can you do when you have so many girls coming in to compete that have never really lifted except for the pink dumbbells. I know my place now because after the last comp I was shafted due to being toooo cuttt. Oh well I would rather have fun with music and posing.

    I think the way we could boycott somehow like the shows that have only figure don't go to the shows dont support them. Maybe then if we hurt them in the pockets they will change the sport which was created for the people that did not want the size the women bb had and could not compete against the fitness girls. It was created for the girls who had fitness figures with out the fitness routine. Girls who had some good muscle mass but not to much. Nice legs with a nice back not the size of a bb and not the size of just a bikini girl.

    well I have vented enough. I am going to write to a friend of mine that is married to the East Coast Chairperson of NPC and see what the heck is going on.

    angry,
    S
    Hi Sunshine, I know this is an older thread, but I came across this post after searching for "figure competitions". Can anyone tell me if it has been confirmed, that "no leg definition, flared lats, or capped shoulders" are in fact a rule of what is "not" allowed in figure competitions, or was this heresay? It seems like leg definition would be a must for fitness, figure, or bodybuilding competitions. I'm not too sure about "flared lats and capped shoulders". Can someone describe those for me? Thanks, T
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    Originally Posted by Sunshineslynn View Post
    Following last weekends NPC Jnr Nationals the following amendments have been made to what the judges are looking for in figure:

    no leg definition whatsoever
    NO flared lats
    NO capped shoulders


    Well as most of you know I am a converted figure girl to bb. And this is shocking at most to me. I am disappointed about the new rules. What the hell are they thinking.

    Boy I knew this was happening. If you look back over the past competitions over the years you see the pros getting smaller. Monica Brant for example use to be very cut and pretty good size she has gotten smaller over the last 2 years due to judges telling her that she was to big. Some of them do not flex their legs at all in order for them to look smaller. Sad this is happening. But what can you do when you have so many girls coming in to compete that have never really lifted except for the pink dumbbells. I know my place now because after the last comp I was shafted due to being toooo cuttt. Oh well I would rather have fun with music and posing.

    I think the way we could boycott somehow like the shows that have only figure don't go to the shows dont support them. Maybe then if we hurt them in the pockets they will change the sport which was created for the people that did not want the size the women bb had and could not compete against the fitness girls. It was created for the girls who had fitness figures with out the fitness routine. Girls who had some good muscle mass but not to much. Nice legs with a nice back not the size of a bb and not the size of just a bikini girl.

    well I have vented enough. I am going to write to a friend of mine that is married to the East Coast Chairperson of NPC and see what the heck is going on.

    angry,
    S
    :-O

    Well, I'm glad I decided not to do Figure a long while ago. Hehe...no leg definition...no capped shoulders...no flared lats....so what ARE they looking for? A popsicle sick with fake boobs and a six-pack? I mean, no leg definition? How does that even happen at 15% bf unless you....*gulp*...don't work legs?!?!?

    (running away in terror)
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    How sad. They are turning figure into a glorified bikini contest
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    Thumbs up Still attempting to verify info

    I've googled the last day or so, and emailed a few competition sites concerning this. I'm still waiting for a reply, and will update later. So far, I have not found anything which states the above are "rules", other than information I've read on the message boards. I like to verify everything I read, to verify opinion from fact before commenting.

    I will say, I've seen many figure competitors, who are not "all natural" who have the above physical characteristics, and many who are natural, with plenty of muscle definition. Check out the figure competitors in a message I posted the other day below. If anyone has more info on NABBA please post.

    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=4880773
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