Israel and the effect on Hamas over the missing soldier

[Power-Quest]

Wow , look at the effect this is having , they are really gonna wipe hamas out from the looks of it.


Israelis Turn Up Heat on Hamas, Assad :

Israeli warplanes fly over home of Syrian President Bashar Assad...
Fighter jets also knocked out electricity and water supplies for most of the 1.3 million residents of the Gaza Strip. Three bridges also were destroyed to keep militants from moving Cpl. Gilad Shalit, 19, who was taken hostage Sunday by three Hamas-affiliated groups.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories...06-28-13-13-50



Olmert: Military Strike Will Continue:

"We won't hestitate to carry out extreme action to bring Gilad back to his family," Olmert said at an awards ceremony at the prime minister's residence.

He said Israel holds the Palestinians' Hamas government, and the Hamas leadership in Syria, responsible for the current situation.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories...06-28-04-36-28



This is gonna get real ugly before it over with.

[aberry33]

I think you are right. I haven't had a chance to really look into this, but why did they kidnap and threaten to 'slaughter' that civilian kid? I understand the soldier I guess, but I don't understand the other kidnapping.

[freedom fighter]

Syrian air defences fire on Israeli planes forcing them to flee,cos they enter
Syrian air space,so things are heating up!

[muirsy88]

I remember it was just a few days ago when that guy was announced kidnapped. Now it's escalated into a big time **** storm. It's definitely gonna get ugly (uglier) in that part of the world.

[A & B]

Israel arrested 64 Hamas legislators today. These men weren't militant's, they were politicians. Although this operation was planned out weeks in advance, and was not in response to the missing soldier.

See, Israel arrests Palestinians every single day. But when the Palestinians take one Israeli soldier, **** hits the fan. Israel launches a full-scale military operation into Gaza, and arrests dozens. It's just absurd.

Israel has really been asking for it lately.

[NicVJ]

Israel arrested 64 Hamas legislators today. These men weren't militant's, they were politicians. Although this operation was planned out weeks in advance, and was not in response to the missing soldier.

Why do you say it has been planned in advance and was not a response to the latest kidnapping cum incursion?

Israel has really been asking for it lately.

I thought Hamas was the one that ended the ceasefire with their rockets, incursion cum kidnapping and killing of 2 Israeli soldiers and last but not least, the killing of an 18-year old settler.

[1devil]

Israel arrested 64 Hamas legislators today. These men weren't militant's, they were politicians. Although this operation was planned out weeks in advance, and was not in response to the missing soldier.

See, Israel arrests Palestinians every single day. But when the Palestinians take one Israeli soldier, **** hits the fan. Israel launches a full-scale military operation into Gaza, and arrests dozens. It's just absurd.

Israel has really been asking for it lately.

The Hamas leadership has allowed and supported continued terrorist activity. Now they and their supporters become whiney when the **** hits the fan. You have to be the most politically naive person ever. You have no understanding of middle eastern attitudes. If someone pushes you you need to knock them down and kick them or you will not be respected.

[A & B]

Why do you say it has been planned in advance and was not a response to the latest kidnapping cum incursion?

That is what was reported at Ha'aretz. And it makes sense too, this was a big operation.

I thought Hamas was the one that ended the ceasefire with their rockets, incursion cum kidnapping and killing of 2 Israeli soldiers and last but not least, the killing of an 18-year old settler.

No.

Hamas' military wing did end their cease-fire, but you have to understand, that came after two months of non-stop Israel attacks. They ended their cease-fire after Israel killed 15 civilians in less than a week. Israel's military has been very active against Palestinians over the last two months. They ended it in response to Israeli actions.

Yes, Palestinian militants attacked an IDF outpost, that's legitimate resistance. They're hitting soldiers of the occupying power, there's nothing wrong with that. If you can't attack the very military that's attacking your people every single day, what can you do?

And yes, there was that settler who was recently reported dead. But the circumstances are not known yet. I seriously doubt Hamas had anything to do with that. That would be a needlessly stupid thing for them to do.

Have you not been paying attention to all of Israel's actions lately? They've been killing people almost every single day for a couple months now.

[A & B]

The Hamas leadership has allowed and supported continued terrorist activity. Now they and their supporters become whiney when the **** hits the fan. You have to be the most politically naive person ever. You have no understanding of middle eastern attitudes. If someone pushes you you need to knock them down and kick them or you will not be respected.

And you live in your little world where everything is always the Palestinians fault.

Your analogy is meaningless. Israel holds the Palestinians down, and when they attempt to get up, Israel knocks them down and kicks them, and then they expect to be respected.

Israel is asking for more attacks. They're being absolutely rediculous right now.

[1devil]

And you live in your little world where everything is always the Palestinians fault.

Your analogy is meaningless. Israel holds the Palestinians down, and when they attempt to get up, Israel knocks them down and kicks them, and then they expect to be respected.

Israel is asking for more attacks. They're being absolutely rediculous right now.

You sit there in your little academic world completely detached from reality. Your arrogance is starting to wear thin. You act as if you have the market cornerned when it comes to understanding this situation. You are a classic example of book knowledge not translating into real world understanding.

[A & B]

You sit there in your little academic world completely detached from reality. Your arrogance is starting to wear thin. You act as if you have the market cornerned when it comes to understanding this situation. You are a classic example of book knowledge not translating into real world understanding.

You think that Israel can beat the Palestinians into submission.

I don't agree.

[NicVJ]

That is what was reported at Ha'aretz. And it makes sense too, this was a big operation.

I'm sure the arrests are in retaliation, that Israel has admitted and makes absolute sense. What you said about prior planning is obvious too. Any government, especially one that is constantly under conflict, will certainly prepare contingencies and plans of retaliation for a spectrum of events. Arresting the Hamas leadership and chain of command is nothing unthinkable. To say that this arrest is unrelated to the kidnapping is hard to prove, in my opinion.

Hamas' military wing did end their cease-fire, but you have to understand, that came after two months of non-stop Israel attacks. They ended their cease-fire after Israel killed 15 civilians in less than a week. Israel's military has been very active against Palestinians over the last two months. They ended it in response to Israeli actions.

Yes, Palestinian militants attacked an IDF outpost, that's legitimate resistance. They're hitting soldiers of the occupying power, there's nothing wrong with that. If you can't attack the very military that's attacking your people every single day, what can you do?

And yes, there was that settler who was recently reported dead. But the circumstances are not known yet. I seriously doubt Hamas had anything to do with that. That would be a needlessly stupid thing for them to do.

Have you not been paying attention to all of Israel's actions lately? They've been killing people almost every single day for a couple months now.

I don't know about Israel's actions and maybe it's because of the my news source, MSNBC as well as local news. I don't doubt you, but are you saying these were unprovoked killings on Israel's part? I'm sure something provoked them into killing the 15 civilians, if it's true, as well as their other supposed actions.

The territorial dispute has been going on for so long and sovereignty of both Israel and Palestine is as murky as the Nile river. If territorial dispute gives Hamas and Fatah the right to attack army outposts - forget the civilian settlers for a moment - then surely it also gives Israel the rights to attack Palestine military targets too. Hence, if that's the justification you use to defend Hamas and Fatah, surely you cannot blame Israel for "starting the violence" as you put it?

The settler was killed with a head shot and Palestinians have already admitted it. Sorry to burst your bubble.

[1devil]

You think that Israel can beat the Palestinians into submission.

I don't agree.

Did I say that this was an ideal situation. I think Israel has better things to do with it's time and resources. However, The Palestinians need to learn that their current tactics will not be rewarded.

[NicVJ]

You think that Israel can beat the Palestinians into submission.

I don't agree.

Neither do I, but Israel hasn't been beating for no apparent reason. That's the difference. They act when they feel threatened. I think the government of Sharon and Olmert have been pressing for peace deals for such a long time now but Abbas and Hamas just can't seem to settle their own differences. In my opinion, the ball has been thrown to the Palestinian's court for a long time and they have prolonged this conflict with their indecision. As a matter of fact, it's hard enough on Israel to make peace with militants, just like how impossible it will be for the US to make peace with Osama, Taliban or Saddam.

[SliCed_and_DiCed]

Who the hell told them that they would find peace in stolen land? They should expect attacks, and not be surprised when they are attacked, the damn Israelis.

Are they right to attack back? Yes, to a certain degree. But if they think that they can just take land, and then beg for peace, then it wont happen. ANd they will win in the begining, due to the money and military support we gave/give them, but in the end Israel cannot succeed. No great evil ever does. Every single country around it hates Israel. We may try and stop those countries from getting better weapons, but it will happen one day, and then it will be too late for Israel. Oh well, its not like they benefit the world anyway.

[MantisShrimp]

Israel arrested 64 Hamas legislators today. These men weren't militant's, they were politicians. Although this operation was planned out weeks in advance, and was not in response to the missing soldier.

See, Israel arrests Palestinians every single day. But when the Palestinians take one Israeli soldier, **** hits the fan. Israel launches a full-scale military operation into Gaza, and arrests dozens. It's just absurd.

Israel has really been asking for it lately.

Democracy is a concept which was imported from the civilized and western world into Palestine. The presumption was that they were going to make sensible use of it, but instead they chose to profane the concept by allowing a terrorist organization to even run (and win.) An organization which not only denies the existence of Israel, but which also seeks to doctrinally eradicate the very democracy which put it into power. THAT my friend, is what is absurd--that a group can run in an election with the clear intent to eradicate the very election process which put them into power, and yet people blame Israel for wanting to wipe these malicious theocrats out.

[A & B]

I'm sure the arrests are in retaliation, that Israel has admitted and makes absolute sense. What you said about prior planning is obvious too. Any government, especially one that is constantly under conflict, will certainly prepare contingencies and plans of retaliation for a spectrum of events. Arresting the Hamas leadership and chain of command is nothing unthinkable. To say that this arrest is unrelated to the kidnapping is hard to prove, in my opinion.

Oh I have no doubt that they implemented it in response to recent events, but I think that this was something that they had in the works for a while, and the kidnapped soldier is only one part of it.

They're really trying to bring down the Hamas government.

I don't know about Israel's actions and maybe it's because of the my news source, MSNBC as well as local news. I don't doubt you, but are you saying these were unprovoked killings on Israel's part? I'm sure something provoked them into killing the 15 civilians, if it's true, as well as their other supposed actions.

Qassam rockets are fired at Israel every day, and Israel missiles and shells hit Gaza every day. Both have their justifications.

One of thehe differences IMO, is that the Qassams rarely, if ever, hit anything or anybody. Israeli strikes always kills people, usually militants, but civilians are very often killed as well. Israeli response is so disproportionate it's not funny. But don't lose sight that the occupier is attacking the occupied, because they resist occupation.

The territorial dispute has been going on for so long and sovereignty of both Israel and Palestine is as murky as the Nile river. If territorial dispute gives Hamas and Fatah the right to attack army outposts - forget the civilian settlers for a moment - then surely it also gives Israel the rights to attack Palestine military targets too. Hence, if that's the justification you use to defend Hamas and Fatah, surely you cannot blame Israel for "starting the violence" as you put it?

The settler was killed with a head shot and Palestinians have already admitted it. Sorry to burst your bubble.

The Palestinian attack on this outpost was, IMO, 100% legitimate resistance to occupation. Why does this fact get past everybody? The Palestinians live under Israeli military occupation. Attacking the soldiers who occupy you, is legitimate resistance, nothing else. And yes, Israel certainly does have the right to attack militants/terrorists who attack them.

But again, all in the context of occupation. When the IDF hits Palestinian targets, they are attacking the people they occupy, for resisting occupation.

And I only said that I doubt Hamas had anything to do with the settler's death. I know it was Palestinians, but I would be very surprised to learn that any Hamas member had anything to do with it.

[A & B]

Democracy is a concept which was imported from the civilized and western world into Palestine. The presumption was that they were going to make sensible use of it, but instead they chose to profane the concept by allowing a terrorist organization to even run (and win.) An organization which not only denies the existence of Israel, but which also seeks to doctrinally eradicate the very democracy which put it into power. THAT my friend, is what is absurd--that a group can run in an election with the clear intent to eradicate the very election process which put them into power, and yet people blame Israel for wanting to wipe these malicious theocrats out.

But see, you don't really understand why Hamas won the election do you?

I'm not even going to mention the outrageously paternalistic overtones in your post.

To be honest, I know that it would have been "better" if Hamas had never won the elections. Because they are, and will be very difficult to make peace with. However, Fatah simply did/does not have the support of the Palestinians anymore, for a variety of reasons.

So yes, I think it would be great if Hamas could be removed from power, IF this would be supported by the Palestinian people. But if Hamas is removed and Fatah put back in, if Fatah doesn't have the support of the Palestinians, this won't make anything better. The PA can only be effective in negotiations if it has the support of the Palestinians. If Hamas is removed from power and Fatah reassumes power, if the Palestinians do not see this as legitimate, it will not make anything better. Abbas will have no authority to negotiate with Israel, because it will not be seen as legitimate.



There are those who think that the Palestinians have to accept and deal with everything Israel says and does, but that Israel doesn't have to deal with anything the Palestinians believe or do if they don't like it.

[1devil]

Oh I have no doubt that they implemented it in response to recent events, but I think that this was something that they had in the works for a while, and the kidnapped soldier is only one part of it.

They're really trying to bring down the Hamas government.



Qassam rockets are fired at Israel every day, and Israel missiles and shells hit Gaza every day. Both have their justifications.

One of thehe differences IMO, is that the Qassams rarely, if ever, hit anything or anybody. Israeli strikes always kills people, usually militants, but civilians are very often killed as well. Israeli response is so disproportionate it's not funny. But don't lose sight that the occupier is attacking the occupied, because they resist occupation.



The Palestinian attack on this outpost was, IMO, 100% legitimate resistance to occupation. Why does this fact get past everybody? The Palestinians live under Israeli military occupation. Attacking the soldiers who occupy you, is legitimate resistance, nothing else. And yes, Israel certainly does have the right to attack militants/terrorists who attack them.

But again, all in the context of occupation. When the IDF hits Palestinian targets, they are attacking the people they occupy, for resisting occupation.

And I only said that I doubt Hamas had anything to do with the settler's death. I know it was Palestinians, but I would be very surprised to learn that any Hamas member had anything to do with it.

Do you think that Israel would be shelling Gaza if the rockets were not be fired into Israel. You go on and on about how the rockets do little damage. What you fail to understand much of what the Palestinains are doing with the rocket fire is working on technology. They are attempting to create better and beter rockets with a longer range. This requires testing. They are essentially doing lots of testing. Israel is supposed to stand idly by and watch this happen.

[DigitalMuscle]

But see, you don't really understand why Hamas won the election do you?

I'm not even going to mention the outrageously paternalistic overtones in your post.

To be honest, I know that it would have been "better" if Hamas had never won the elections. Because they are, and will be very difficult to make peace with. However, Fatah simply did/does not have the support of the Palestinians anymore, for a variety of reasons.

So yes, I think it would be great if Hamas could be removed from power, IF this would be supported by the Palestinian people. But if Hamas is removed and Fatah put back in, if Fatah doesn't have the support of the Palestinians, this won't make anything better. The PA can only be effective in negotiations if it has the support of the Palestinians. If Hamas is removed from power and Fatah reassumes power, if the Palestinians do not see this as legitimate, it will not make anything better. Abbas will have no authority to negotiate with Israel, because it will not be seen as legitimate.



There are those who think that the Palestinians have to accept and deal with everything Israel says and does, but that Israel doesn't have to deal with anything the Palestinians believe or do if they don't like it.

I am sure lots of Arabs do not side with Hamas, or any other terrorist organization. Thinking every Arab you see is a terrorist or Muslim is racism. Fact is he who owns the biggest guns rules the land and seeing how Fatah had no guns in the first place the rest is history.

Isreal is not inocent by any means but hardly is Hamas or any other sponsered terror organization. I see both sides of the land and I believe that both sides are wrong. While I do not condone threats of wiping people (Jews) off the face of the earth people have to realize that Isreal killing inocent people rather it be accident or on purpose only adds fuel to the fire. Same can be said on the other side. Truth is the ones that are truely hurt by all this is the inocent victims who do not want war on either side.

One thing I do agree on this is going to get ugly & pound for pound Israel has one of the best Armies ever assembled. I Pray for both sides!

[Power-Quest]

More articles



Israel Delays Invasion of Northern Gaza:
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories...06-29-11-43-02


Syria Denounces Israeli Planes' Fly-By
Jun 29 12:52 PM US/Eastern
http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/06/29/D8II0B0G0.html


IDF forces arrest Palestinian cabinet ministers, lawmakers
Justice Ministry: More arrests of Hamas figures are expected
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/732528.html


WILL KIDNAPPING OF THIS MAN TRIGGER MID EAST WAR?...
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...248285,00.html

[A & B]

Do you think that Israel would be shelling Gaza if the rockets were not be fired into Israel.

Do you think the Palestinians would be be firing rockets at Israel if they weren't being oppressed?

You go on and on about how the rockets do little damage. What you fail to understand much of what the Palestinains are doing with the rocket fire is working on technology. They are attempting to create better and beter rockets with a longer range. This requires testing. They are essentially doing lots of testing.

True. They are getting more and more katyusha rockets too, which have a ranger of 22km and are much more powerful.

Israel is supposed to stand idly by and watch this happen.

No they're not.

Are the Palestinians supposed to sit back and take occupation?

[no_strain_no_ga]

I would like to comment, but I would probably be judged on supporting terrorism like I was on the other thread

[photomasterx]

Funny thing is that if Israel storms Palestine and America is shown as siding or supporting Israel and Israel ends up causing massive amounts damage and destruction America may pay the price in countries like Afghanistan and Iraq when the Arab/muslim word gets pissed off.

Al-qeada is the one that is actually going to benifit from this fight between Israel and Palestine. It's going to make a great propaganda peice where Al-qeada can show that America supports the destruction and occupation of muslims. America might pay directly with the lives of it's soldiers for what Israel does to the palestinians.

I expect Al-qeada recruitment number to rise sharply after this with pissed off arabs wanting revenge.

On the other hand arabs do little to nothing for palestinians so most arabs might not even give a **** about what happens to the palestinians anyway.

They sure as hell didn't give a flying **** about Lebonese arab/muslims. The only help they got was from Iran(persians) in the form of Hezbollah.

[DigitalMuscle]

Al-

qeada is the one that is actually going to benifit from this fight between Israel and Palestine.

So are the ones who make and sell all the weapons.

[Viking22]

It's abundantly obvious that a peaceful resolution to this conflict will never ever ever happen.

This being the case, the only other means of resolution is the other route. Complete, total all out war that leaves only one of the combatants standing.

The innocent have to die with the agressors, hell the innocents are dying every day now anyways, but total domination is the only path to resolution here.

Enough with the pot shots, the bomb here, the kidnapping there, the slow, endless trickle of death. Somebody stand up and wipe the other out. Only then can you turn your attentions towards progressing your society.

You may think this is cruel and heartless, but it's the ONLY way you're going to get these two groups of dueschbags off the front page of the goddamn paper every freaking day.

Enough already. Settle it. And like a schoolyard fight, everybody else should just circle around, not get involved, and let them go at it.

[Power-Quest]

ISRAEL CRACKS SOME HEADS

Ever since the Islamic terrorist group Hamas took over in the Palestinian territories, things have steadily gone downhill between Israel and the now Islamic terrorist-led Palestinian people. Of course, you won't see the mainstream media in this country or any other call them terrorists. They use weasel words like "gunmen" or "militants." God forbid we should actually call somebody what they are.

So what has Israel so upset? The Islamic terrorists of Hamas have been holding an Israeli soldier for 4 days. So the tanks are rolling in and the planes flying overhead. Israeli troops are also making arrests. But the Palestinians are upset about all this. According to one of their negotiators, "I think that Israeli attempts to bargain through bombardment of power stations and bridges and arrests of parliamentarians and ministers is just adding to the complexities." Adding to the complexities? What? Aren't they the ones who took an Israeli soldier hostage? In what context is that not an act of war? Bargaining? How about this bargain? Give us our soldier back or we're going to kill a whole mess of you Islamic terrorist bastards.

The White House is responding to this by saying Israel has a right to defend itself, but should be careful about hurting civilians. All of this points out why the "Mideast peace process" is a fantasy. The only time you truly have peace is following a military victory. It's time to fully unleash Israel...and bring the terrorists in the Palestinian territories to their knees.

Once they surrender, then they can negotiate the terms of their existence. There's your peaceful end to the conflict.

I see it the same way Boortz does.

[1devil]

Do you think the Palestinians would be be firing rockets at Israel if they weren't being oppressed?



True. They are getting more and more katyusha rockets too, which have a ranger of 22km and are much more powerful.



No they're not.

Are the Palestinians supposed to sit back and take occupation?

Way to avoid answering the point I made, and instead take a small part of what I said out of context and reply to that.

[Viking22]

ISRAEL CRACKS SOME HEADS

Ever since the Islamic terrorist group Hamas took over in the Palestinian territories, things have steadily gone downhill between Israel and the now Islamic terrorist-led Palestinian people. Of course, you won't see the mainstream media in this country or any other call them terrorists. They use weasel words like "gunmen" or "militants." God forbid we should actually call somebody what they are.

So what has Israel so upset? The Islamic terrorists of Hamas have been holding an Israeli soldier for 4 days. So the tanks are rolling in and the planes flying overhead. Israeli troops are also making arrests. But the Palestinians are upset about all this. According to one of their negotiators, "I think that Israeli attempts to bargain through bombardment of power stations and bridges and arrests of parliamentarians and ministers is just adding to the complexities." Adding to the complexities? What? Aren't they the ones who took an Israeli soldier hostage? In what context is that not an act of war? Bargaining? How about this bargain? Give us our soldier back or we're going to kill a whole mess of you Islamic terrorist bastards.

The White House is responding to this by saying Israel has a right to defend itself, but should be careful about hurting civilians. All of this points out why the "Mideast peace process" is a fantasy. The only time you truly have peace is following a military victory. It's time to fully unleash Israel...and bring the terrorists in the Palestinian territories to their knees.

Once they surrender, then they can negotiate the terms of their existence. There's your peaceful end to the conflict.
.

I agree to all but the last line.

The MO of a rat terrorist would be to surrender, wait it out and eventually get back to the same ol same ol

I look at terrorists like roaches. When your house has roaches, you don't eliminate half of them, 75% of them or 95% of them. If you don't eliminate 100% of them, you're will have the same roach problem again in the future, guaranteed.

There can be NO negotiation to the terms of their existence. Use this approach and you will get the people to turn on their own terrorist countrymen

[NuggzTheNinja]

And you live in your little world where everything is always the Palestinians fault.

Your analogy is meaningless. Israel holds the Palestinians down, and when they attempt to get up, Israel knocks them down and kicks them, and then they expect to be respected.

Israel is asking for more attacks. They're being absolutely rediculous right now.

You know, I find it amusing that I've corrected you four or five times already and you still can't spell "ridiculous".