Keto Dieting

[RailZ]

Sry im new to this.

But this is how I have things..

6 solid meals, 1 shake meal (PWO)

m1 - eggs,1 tablespoon pb

m2 - chicken or beef mct oil or olive oil (veggies)

m3 - same as 2

m4 - pwo shake, with 30grams dextrose

m5 - 1 hr and 30 mins later..same as m2

m6 - same as me 2

m7 - chicken or beef with some cla tabs or some kind of fat..

I am getting ready for a show..

My weight is 212 in the moruing empty stomach so here is how i broke things down..

maintance cals 3200 - 500 = 2700
334grams protein from meat, and 4protein is coming from the 1 tablespoon pb..im gonna take 8 total tabs of aminos thur the day, to give me 16 protein and 80 cals..so my protein cals = 1416 and 350grams protein with meats and aminos.

1416 cals from protein
120 cals from dextrose in pwo shake
1164 rest for fat..

350 grams protein
129 grams fat

Now I was wondering if you guys count ur veggie intake? As in the carbs and protein in it?? Cause fibrous veggies, you burn more carbs digesting the veggies that is in the food..so its negitble...(sp)...
anywho..I was just wondering, plus How much cardio u recommend doing while on keto, im 4 weeks out..I'll have to post a picture to show you guys how im looking..I haven't really figured out my carb up days yet..but I know its gonna be like this..sat-wed..depletion..thur have some fruits then decarb workout then at 12noon carb up till fri 12am..im gonna be working out mon-wed normal workouts,chest and bi's etc...then thursday decarb workout then friday legs..

[RailZ]

Also, do you guys use ala in ur pwo shake and or on high days?

[skelooth]

First of all, CONGRATULATIONS on winning first place in three teen class bodybuilding competitions!!! that is very impressive!

With that said, you obviously already have a method of shredding down for contest, why are you going to 'screw with it' now?

As for your questions.... I personally do not count the veggies like broccoli and lettuce because they are so low calorie and so essential. Theoretically though you SHOULD count them.

As for cardio.... that is going to be up to you. You're prepping for a contest, so you are going to know best. There's really no difference in cardio on keto vs not on keto (for the most part anyway).

As for ALA, it's good all the time

[RailZ]

Thanks for your feedback, well i do something similar to keto right now i think...

I do 3 days low carbs, m1,pre and post workout has carbs
day 1 - 68 carbs
day 2 - 41 carbs
day 3 - 23 carbs
*note counting veggies*
first day eat 3 carb meals, then 2nd day m1 and post workout then 3rd day just m1, i have tablespoon of mct oil with each meal even post workout, then i follow it up with 3 days high, mct oil with each meal 330carbs, from oats,potatos,fruit,rice..etc...For my last compeition, I actully did 5 days nothing but meat and veggies (kinda like keto)..and fat coming from beef..then 3 days carb up, So im figuring since im almost doing like a keto diet..im just gonna do 5 days low then 2 days carb up, instead of my 3 days low and 3 high like im doing now...oh yeah right now on low days i do half my maintance, then on high days maintance+...So im doing almost keto now, so i figure i'll just do keto just right and keep rotating to my show..so i can carb up 12noon on thur and all way fri for my sat show..im doing 45 mins twice a day cardio everyday, i was figuring i'll do 1 hr twice a day 5 days of keto, then before my first carb up day do my decarb workout plus 30 mins cardio..then second carb up i was thinking no cardio, to let the carbs fill back in..Also i'll attach a photo from like a month ago, im leaner now...but gives u a ideal how i look..

also heres a link to my last show in march

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CgOiUc_UYTM

[RailZ]

I was thinking keeping my cardio the same 45 mins twice a day 7 days a wk, mon-wed normal workouts
mon - chest tris
tues - back bi's
wed - shoulders traps
then on thursday till fri is my carb up, so if i get up and do my cardio thursday on empty stomach, then eat a meal then do my decarb workout in the mor then start carbing up 12noon on thurs, if that can work, what kind of meal should i have after my mor cardio, keto meal or a carb up meal, or wait till after my decarb workout to carb up???

[skelooth]

I unfortunately feel severely underqualified to advise you. I know a lot about losing fat, and keto diets, but I'm not (yet) competitive and I have seen a lot of pre competition diets that kinda make me scratch my head.

I'd say that you might get better help in the contest prep section, but I dont know their stance on keto? I'm not sure if any of the regs here are competitive, I know fitty is a PLer though. Maybe someone will stop by and be able to help more than I can.

[RailZ]

Originally Posted by skelooth

I unfortunately feel severely underqualified to advise you. I know a lot about losing fat, and keto diets, but I'm not (yet) competitive and I have seen a lot of pre competition diets that kinda make me scratch my head.

I'd say that you might get better help in the contest prep section, but I dont know their stance on keto? I'm not sure if any of the regs here are competitive, I know fitty is a PLer though. Maybe someone will stop by and be able to help more than I can.

Well thanks for ur honestly and comments, i just wanna get a idea of things lil more..and put it to work..i just wanna know how clean my carbups and how many carbs i'll need..just the lil things i guess..u take ala ur post workout shake just wondering?

[skelooth]

When i have the money, yes

My pwo shake is 48g protein, 500mg green tea extract, 1g vitamin c, 400iu vit e, and 99mg potassium. I don't have any more ala and i am broke right now

Carbs being 'clean' takes on a different meaning on CKD. A lot of us carb up on things like bagels. Definitely read the step by step keto sticky if you haven't already. Or you can look around on c-k-d.com one of the moderators there is competitive

[RailZ]

Originally Posted by skelooth

When i have the money, yes

My pwo shake is 48g protein, 500mg green tea extract, 1g vitamin c, 400iu vit e, and 99mg potassium. I don't have any more ala and i am broke right now

Carbs being 'clean' takes on a different meaning on CKD. A lot of us carb up on things like bagels. Definitely read the step by step keto sticky if you haven't already. Or you can look around on c-k-d.com one of the moderators there is competitive

Yeah I read over it, said something like ur weight times 73k for ur carb up, that mean day 1 then same for day 2, or that much for both days?? I read over it, gonna read it again..I was just wondering since my show is coming up, just wondering if theres a reason why to eat more junkier food over cleaner foods on carb up days..i know some people pig out, but for precontest should be cleaner, or semi clean, just trying to get the jesst of things, I will start keto tommorow..keep the cardio the same, and try to figure out the carbup..Hopefully u or someone that can kinda help me basted on my size and condition, see a good baseline of carbs for carb up days and how clean or not clean foods to use..I need to pick up bodyops book..might help a lil also

[RailZ]

Here's the diet I put together :


3200 maintance cals
- 500 calorie deficit
----------
2700 total cals

Workout Days - 2648cals,147fat,43carbs(8 trace carbs),298protein

No Wkout Days - 2621cals,155fat,16carbs(8 trace carbs),298protein



Meal 1 - 415cals,21fat,5carbs,42protein - 1 amino tab
8 Eggwhites & 2 Wholes
16grams Natural PB
4 CLA TABS

Meal 2 - 411cals,28fat,2carbs(trace),42protein
7oz Chicken
81grams Spinach
1 tbsp Flax Oil & 15ml Mct Oil

Meal 3 - 349cals,21fat,2carbs(trace),42protein
7oz Beef
85grams Broccoli
15ml Mct Oil

Meal 4 - 300cals,0fat,30carbs,46protein
2 scps Whey
30grams Dextrose
(ON NON-TRAINING DAYS eat 7oz Chicken & 16g PB) - 273cals,8fat,3carbs,46protein

Meal 5 - (1hr & 30mins later) 349cals,21fat,2carbs(trace),42protein
7oz Beef
85grams Broccoli
15ml Mct Oil

Meal 6 - 413cals,28fat,2carbs(trace),42protein
7oz Chicken
81grams Spinach
1 tbsp Flax Oil & 15ml Olive Oil

Meal 7 - 411cals,28fat,0carbs,42protein
7oz Chicken
15 Mct Oil & 1 tbsp Flax Oil

[RailZ]

Let me know what you guys think, Im doing a lil more then 1gram per bodyweight of protein, To hold on to my muscle..From all the cardio im doing. And if you calculating my macros, and its kinda off, its cuz mct oil is 8.3 pre gram not 9..Well If the diet looks good, now I just need help on the carb up, i'll be doing 45 mins cardio twice a day like i normal been doing..Any input would be helpful!

[RailZ]

bump?

[skelooth]

The diet looks very good but be careful with the natty PB it's got a good amount of carbs hidden in it.

For your carb up your goal is very low fat, very high carbs, basically the opposite of what you're normal keto diet is. You can reverse the macros to be 65% carbs, 30% protein, and 5% fat if you want to look at it that way.

High GI carbs are better for carbing up because of your increased insulin sensitivity.... and it will literally just shoot glycogen / protein / nutrients right into your muscles like an airsoft gun. High GI carbs also tend to be pretty low in fat. Towards the end of the day you can switch to more conventional things like brown rice or oatmeal.

If the carb up and depletion is done right you *should* experience a bit of glycogen overcompensation... giving your muscles a very full look to them.

Um, again I will say though, do whatever you feel is best in the days leading up to your competition. You obviously know what you're doing in that regard and know your body best. Otherwise it looks like you have everything in lockdown already! I'm sure you are going to do great again!

[RailZ]

Originally Posted by skelooth

The diet looks very good but be careful with the natty PB it's got a good amount of carbs hidden in it.

For your carb up your goal is very low fat, very high carbs, basically the opposite of what you're normal keto diet is. You can reverse the macros to be 65% carbs, 30% protein, and 5% fat if you want to look at it that way.

High GI carbs are better for carbing up because of your increased insulin sensitivity.... and it will literally just shoot glycogen / protein / nutrients right into your muscles like an airsoft gun. High GI carbs also tend to be pretty low in fat. Towards the end of the day you can switch to more conventional things like brown rice or oatmeal.

If the carb up and depletion is done right you *should* experience a bit of glycogen overcompensation... giving your muscles a very full look to them.

Um, again I will say though, do whatever you feel is best in the days leading up to your competition. You obviously know what you're doing in that regard and know your body best. Otherwise it looks like you have everything in lockdown already! I'm sure you are going to do great again!

*Whipes sweat off forehead*
After your comment on the other thread, I was panicing thinking I was doing it all wrong. But thanks for looking over everything, and letting me know its right, and thanks for the guidelines for the carb load.

For your carb up your goal is very low fat, very high carbs, basically the opposite of what you're normal keto diet is. You can reverse the macros to be 65% carbs, 30% protein, and 5% fat if you want to look at it that way.

Is this for both days of the load? I'll put together the loading processes with the foods, and let me know what you guys think..Again thanks alot for ur honestly, I really apprecatie it.

[RailZ]

To get: 65% carbs, 30% protein, and 5% fat

How would i calculate that the easiest way?
take my body weight and multipuly by .65 or take my maintance cals and multipuly it? Sry for so many questions, I bet your getting tired of me already, haha.

[skelooth]

Let's say your maintenance calse are 3000. For the carb up you want to go 500 over maintenance...

so, 3500 calories right?

65% of 3500 is: 3500 * .65 = 2,275 calories

a gram of Carbohydrate is 4grams, so

2,275 / 4 = 568g of carbs would be roughly 2,275 calories, or 65% of your calories

it works in a similar fashion for protein and fat, only fat is 9 calories per gram.

[skelooth]

We all do a one day "short and extreme" carb up where we go over maintenance calories. This way we have more time to be in ketosis the rest of the week.

I'm going to carb up today for example. I had eggs for breakfast.

After doing a depletion workout i'll have 40g of maltodextrin in my shake, then I'm going to guy buy a half dozen plain bagels, a tub of fat free cream cheese, and some skim milk for making oatmeal. My carb up will probably only last roughly 8 to 10 hours, but I'll eat close to 4,000 calories and make myself feel sick

[RailZ]

Originally Posted by skelooth

Let's say your maintenance calse are 3000. For the carb up you want to go 500 over maintenance...

so, 3500 calories right?

65% of 3500 is: 3500 * .65 = 2,275 calories

a gram of Carbohydrate is 4grams, so

2,275 / 4 = 568g of carbs would be roughly 2,275 calories, or 65% of your calories

it works in a similar fashion for protein and fat, only fat is 9 calories per gram.

WOW THANKS MAN!

[RailZ]

Originally Posted by skelooth

We all do a one day "short and extreme" carb up where we go over maintenance calories. This way we have more time to be in ketosis the rest of the week.

I'm going to carb up today for example. I had eggs for breakfast.

After doing a depletion workout i'll have 40g of maltodextrin in my shake, then I'm going to guy buy a half dozen plain bagels, a tub of fat free cream cheese, and some skim milk for making oatmeal. My carb up will probably only last roughly 8 to 10 hours, but I'll eat close to 4,000 calories and make myself feel sick

HAHA DANG!..Well Before your decard workout, whats the difference in eating just keto meal or having fruits, i was wondering which I should do. And also heres from the sticky..

The Weekend Carb Load

Since muscle glycogen is the main source of energy for anaerobic exercise such as weight training, we cannot simply deplete all stores while working out and not fill them back up. If that does happen, be rest-assured that the body WILL use protein for fuel then. But this won’t happen on the CKD.

Your one and a half days of "freedom" allow you to do two things: First, reward your carb cravings from the previous days, allowing you to enjoy pleasures like pizza, pasta, breads, etc. Second, eating these things are physiologically rewarding as insulin levels run high, storing amino acids and carbs, as glycogen, into the depleted muscle allowing you to be able to workout again the following week.

Your "carb-up" should begin Friday night and last until around midnight Saturday. Now the next important issue to address is how many carbs. Some lucky individuals find that they eat whatever they want for the 24-30 hour time interval and receive perfect glycogen compensation, while others rely on a better statistical number.

What has been recommended by other authors of the CKD is 10-12 grams of carbs per kilogram of lean mass. Again, time to do math. Our example had 160 pounds of lean mass, so divide that by the conversion factor of 2.2, and we get roughly 73 kg.

100 Grams of easily digested liquid carbs along with around half as many grams of carbs in protein (here 50) as a whey shake or something of that nature should be taken right after the last workout (which I will address in the workout section of the article) when insulin sensitivity will be at its greatest.

A few hours later this individual will start to spread the remaining 630 grams of carbs, along with the important number of 160 grams of protein (remember, keep this constant) during the remainder of the compensation period.

So what about dietary fat? I know you’re reminding yourself, "Didn’t this guy mention pizza?" Yes, I did. And here’s why. During the first 24-30 hours of carbing up, the body will use all dietary carbohydrates to refill glycogen, protein for rebuilding, and get this: fat for energy. Still?

Just like the previous five and a half days. Makes sense. When all the carbohydrates are being used for more important functions (muscle), what else is there to be used? However, you can’t just eat all the fat you want. Keep grams of fat intake below your body weight in kilograms. Again, here our example will keep is fat below 73 during the carb-fest.

By anecdotal reports, this should keep fat regain minimal to nil. Keeping fat intake extremely low has even caused some extra fat burning during the carb up!

As stated before, some dietary fat should be eaten to slow digestion and keep sugar levels stable. Whether it be saturated, unsaturated, or essential fats, is the dieter’s decision. All have nine calories per gram. (Note: there is a claim that essential fatty acids such as flax seed oil increase insulin sensitivity within the muscle cells, in turn, increasing glycogen intake.)

--------
I was gonna do my decarb workout then load from 12noon till i go to bed the next nite..(thurs at noon till friday nite)..That's why I was asking if u do the total carbs is for the day and half or its for both days, or on second day you lower it a bit?

After my decarb, I was gonna do dextrose shake, then high gi carbs for next few meals, then go into oats and sweet potatos..Also is fat free ice cream okay on carb ups?? The one I got the nurition facts is this : Sweetened with splenda
1/2cup
90cals
0fat,0sat,0trans
23carbs
5dietary fiber
4sugars
5sugar alcohol
3protein
its made from fat free milk..
Also I was wondering if I can use the new weight contrl oatmeal..the facts:
160 cal, 3g fat,29g carb,6g fiber,1g sugar (splenda),7g protein.
Then I was thinking going into sweet potatos and brown rice...
Here's a article I was looking over.
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/angelo2.htm
Here's the women version (I think angelo is her trainer)
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/tracy3.htm

[skelooth]

I believe the that if you're going to carb up over two days, then yes you spread those calories throughout the loading period.

as for fruit, I never eat it during a cut

[RailZ]

Originally Posted by skelooth

I believe the that if you're going to carb up over two days, then yes you spread those calories throughout the loading period.

as for fruit, I never eat it during a cut

K thanks alot!! I was also wondering..if im doing a day and half carb up...should my precents be different then 65% carbs, 30% protein, and 5% fat ?? Since i'll have the spread it out thur the whole load.

[skelooth]

the percentages would stay the same

[RailZ]

500 over my maintenace = 3,700 cals

3700 * .65 = 2,405 cals from carbs
2,405/4 = 601.25 grams of carbs

3,700 * .30 = 1,110 cals from protein
1,110/4 = 277.5 grams of protein

3,700 * .05 = 185 cals from fat
185/9 = 20.5

---------------

so on thursday i eat some eggs and fats (i see some people eat fruits??) then do my depletion workout, then start to carb up thurs at noon till fri bed time..

do i do 601carbs,277protein,20fat on thurs and then on fri

or do i spread 601carbs,277protein,20fat from thur till fri..kinda like this:

thur - 300carbs,138protein,10fat
fri - 300 carbs,138protein,10 fat

so it will reach 601carbs,277protein,20fat over a 2 day peroid?? Just trying to figure it out..

[RailZ]

Whats so confusing is different people have totaly different ways to carb up..

What has been recommended by other authors of the CKD is 10-12 grams of carbs per kilogram of lean mass. Again, time to do math. Our example had 160 pounds of lean mass, so divide that by the conversion factor of 2.2, and we get roughly 73 kg.

100 Grams of easily digested liquid carbs along with around half as many grams of carbs in protein (here 50) as a whey shake or something of that nature should be taken right after the last workout (which I will address in the workout section of the article) when insulin sensitivity will be at its greatest.

A few hours later this individual will start to spread the remaining 630 grams of carbs, along with the important number of 160 grams of protein (remember, keep this constant) during the remainder of the compensation period.

Is what the sticky has, and one article from bb.com has this as a carb up chart.
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/tracy5b.htm

Then you said 65%carbs,30%protein,5%fat

Just wondering why there so different.

[RailZ]

theres all kinds of ways, I just dont know what to think...scratches head..

http://www.mesomorphosis.com/article...genic-diet.htm

[skelooth]

They're all different because everyone has different beliefs and takes on diet strategies and nutrition.

Since you are competitive I will take for granted that you are familiar with some of the names like Berardi, McLyle, Venuto, and a host of others.... each one's teachings on both training and nutrition are somewhat radically different.

This is why I'm hesistant to give you concrete advice.... YOU have a competition on the line. When I give advice I usually give it based on my own experiences. But I'm hovering around 16% bodyfat and am naturally very endomorphic. What works for my body might not work as well for you. It's important that you be able to know your body and make an educated guess on what you think your body will respond the best to.

Then you need to go out there and kick some ass on stage man

[RailZ]

Originally Posted by skelooth

They're all different because everyone has different beliefs and takes on diet strategies and nutrition.

Since you are competitive I will take for granted that you are familiar with some of the names like Berardi, McLyle, Venuto, and a host of others.... each one's teachings on both training and nutrition are somewhat radically different.

This is why I'm hesistant to give you concrete advice.... YOU have a competition on the line. When I give advice I usually give it based on my own experiences. But I'm hovering around 16% bodyfat and am naturally very endomorphic. What works for my body might not work as well for you. It's important that you be able to know your body and make an educated guess on what you think your body will respond the best to.

Then you need to go out there and kick some ass on stage man

Oh so theres keto diets, but basicly its not one fits all, I understand now...I thought one keto baseline worked for everyone, just gotta adjust for weight and stuff...I want to say thanks, for helping me and have me learning more about keto..on my diet before it was kinda like keto to a certain extent...with 3 days low carbs (70,40,25)..then high for 3 days (330 for all) foods were fruits and strachies...so now im doing the 5 day keto and 2 day load...just gotta figure out how much i'll need to fill out...Like I said..ur the best..and ur been sooo helpful!