Making my own Pre-Workout Drink

[JDeV]

I am trying to decide on what to put in a pre-workout mix that will taste alright and will fit into a 10-20 gram scoop that I could put in gatorade or another similar drink. I want to increase NO, anticatabolic properties, Energy and concentration. CM, Orotic Acid, DiArg. Malate for NO. BCAA, Leucine, EAA for Anti... . I included Glucronolactone, Taurine, and to some extent the CM for Energy. Then I included the ALCAR for concentration.
The amounts should add up to a Kg. Right now I have...

50g ALCAR
100g BCAA
50g EAA
50g Betaine Anhydrous
50g Beta alanine
100g Citrulline Malate
50g Glucronolactone
350g Leucine
50g Di-Arginine Malate
100g Orotic Acid
50g Taurine


-What am I missing? What should I get rid of? Are the amounts right?

-I was considering adding some DiCreatine Malate, but I am probably going to take Green Magnitude as a post workout drink. Should I still add it?

-Also I was considering adding Histidine to the mix. Should I?
-Are EAA's Necessary considering I have a load of Leucine, Some BCAAs, and am planning to take protein shakes every day?
-I have seen Beta-Alanine and Betaine in many pre workout drinks, so I included them. What exactly do they do?

-Also considering how many ingredients I have, how much should I take per serving?

-Will any of these substances have bad tastes?

[NATHAN518]

I am trying to decide on what to put in a pre-workout mix that will taste alright and will fit into a 10-20 gram scoop that I could put in gatorade or another similar drink.
The amounts should add up to a Kg. Right now I have...

50g ALCAR
100g BCAA
50g EAA
50g Betaine Anhydrous
50g Beta alanine
100g Citrulline Malate
50g Glucuronolactone
350g Leucine
50g Di-Arginine Malate
100g Orotic Acid
50g Taurine


-What am I missing? What should I get rid of? Are the amounts right?

-I was considering adding some DiCreatine Malate, but I am probably going to take Green Magnitude as a post workout drink. Should I still add it?

-Also I was considering adding Histidine to the mix. Should I?
-Are EAA's Necessary considering I have a load of Leucine, Some BCAAs, and am planning to take protein shakes every day?

-Also considering how many ingredients I have, how much should I take per serving?

-Will any of these substances have bad tastes?

Wow, that looks pretty good...

will any of the substances have a bad taste? LOL, well, BCAA's taste pretty bad...ALCAR tastes like pure a$$...it will NOT taste good. IMO, the EAA's are unnecessary as are the BCAA's...IF you are going to have a whey shake within about 30 minutes of consuming this bulk cocktail, then the you will be good with just the leucine. if you are NOT going to have whey with it, you could go with just the EAA's...no need for the BCAA IMO...

otherwise, it looks pretty solid...with the beta alanine, you MAY want to include some histidine for its role in histamine and carnosine biosynthesis...

[NATHAN518]

betaine anhydrous -lowers homocysteine levels
-important in intestinal function
-MAY be lipotropic (lipid oxidizer)

beta alanine -carnosine is a dipeptide of beta alanine and histidine (this is why you should inslude histidine)
-carnosine prevents some enzymatic reactions that lead to an increased acidic environment in muscles (lactic acid). It appears to be the best H+ blocker

[NATHAN518]

if you do the math for me (i am lazy) and show me what would be in one serving, it would be easier to tell you what the dosages should be

[JDeV]

Thanks for the quick feedback.

50g ALCAR
100g EAA
50g Histidine
50g Betaine Anhydrous
50g Beta alanine
100g Citrulline Malate
50g Glucuronolactone
350g Leucine
50g Di-Arginine Malate
100g Orotic Acid
50g Taurine

I would have a whey (ON 100%)shake an hour after this. but i would probably have casein protein (ON 100%) in my system from my morning shake. I don't think I would have deficient levels of isoleucine and valine with the EAAs and the Shakes.

some more questions.
-Is Di-Arginine Malate effective? i have recently read that AAKG and L-Arginine are innefective at raising NO.

-What about DiCreatine Malate? Would it be helpful pre-workout?

-What ratio should I have Betaine to Histidine? In MAN products its 1600mg to 250mg

-Even Gatorade won't cover it?

[JDeV]

I asked the people Im buying this from if I can get 25g or 10g amounts in the drink. If this is possible, Histidine and Betaine would be
25g Histidine
75g Beta Alanine


Depending on whether the serving is 10g or 20g these are the values
if it is a 10g serving:

500mg ALCAR
1g EAA
500mg Histidine
500mg Betaine Anhydrous
500mg Beta alanine
1g Citrulline Malate
500mg Glucuronolactone
3.5g Leucine
500mg Di-Arginine Malate
1g Orotic Acid
500mg Taurine

if it is a 20g serving:

1g ALCAR
2g EAA
1g Histidine
1g Betaine Anhydrous
1g Beta alanine
2g Citrulline Malate
1g Glucuronolactone
7g Leucine
1g Di-Arginine Malate
2g Orotic Acid
1g Taurine

[Btbam77]

I asked the people Im buying this from if I can get 25g or 10g amounts in the drink. If this is possible, Histidine and Betaine would be
25g Histidine
75g Beta Alanine


Depending on whether the serving is 10g or 20g these are the values
if it is a 10g serving:

500mg ALCAR
1g EAA
500mg Histidine
500mg Betaine Anhydrous
500mg Beta alanine
1g Citrulline Malate
500mg Glucuronolactone
3.5g Leucine
500mg Di-Arginine Malate
1g Orotic Acid
500mg Taurine

if it is a 20g serving:

1g ALCAR
2g EAA
1g Histidine
1g Betaine Anhydrous
1g Beta alanine
2g Citrulline Malate
1g Glucuronolactone
7g Leucine
1g Di-Arginine Malate
2g Orotic Acid
1g Taurine

very, very nice. are planning on getting this from custom nutrition warehouse.com? how much do you think this would cost?

[Btbam77]

i just did a quick add its about $70 for 100/50 servings depending on 10/20g servings..

[JDeV]

Hmm. youre right. I'll search around for individual ingredients. I think they put a premium on when you mix.
Its like Xtend and Purple Wraath all in one.

I think If i make everything 100g or more on the initial purchase, and make my first batch 2kg that will cut down on cost. lemme ring it up.
I think 20g is too much probably it will be 10-15g/ serving.
And I am using that site.

Here goes the 2Kg Batch size cost

100g ALCAR Size Match 8.00
200g EAA 500g 28.90
100g Histidine S.M. 15.00
100g Betaine Anhydrous S.M. 5.00
100g Beta alanine S.M. 8.00
200g Citrulline Malate S.M. 2x100g 24.00
100g Glucuronolactone S.M. 8.00
700g Leucine 2x500g 25.00
100g Di-Arginine Malate 500g 23.00
200g Orotic Acid S.M. 2x100g 18.00
100g Taurine S.M. 4.00

$167 initial investment. That is alot for me. I think I may take out DiArginine Malate because of the studies that show that Arginine doesn't work. The DiC Malate will also provide some Malic Acid so its all good.

BCAAs 19.99/500g
DiC Malate - 4.00/100g - 25.00/Kg

[NATHAN518]

-IMO, you could definitely do without the arginine...

-You need some sort of creatine..whether dicreatine malate or CEE etc.

-don't worry about BCAA's/isoleucine and valine levels...you are fine with the EAA + extra leucine

-you may want to look at R-ALA (its kinda pricey though) especially with the ALCAR

the only other thing I would say is the citrulline malate dose is a little low...most studies use 6g (this will get expensive though)

EDIT: If you are going to use green mag that will be plenty of creatine

[JDeV]

I'm going to put in individual EAAs as the leucine amounts are the highest in both BCAAs and EAAs.

100g ALCAR 8.00
1000g Various AAs
---100g Lysine HCL 3.00
---100g Tyrosine 5.00
---500g Leucine ~18.00
---100g Histidine 15.00
---100g Taurine 4.00
100g Betaine Anhydrous 5.00
100g Beta alanine 8.00
200g Citrulline Malate 20.00
100g Glucuronolactone 8.00
200g Di-Creatine Malate 8.00
100g Di-Arginine Malate 10.00
100g Orotic Acid 9.00

2kg cost... 121$
therefore 1kg cost is only 60 not that bad i would say.

-Is it true that Arginine Doesn't work? Should I get rid of it on my list?
-Do I have too much Leucine? It was my impression that Leucine was the only BCAA that helps you.
-Do I now Have too much malic Acid as three suppliments I have use it?
-Is .5g/serving the right amount of Orotic Acid?
-Are there any good cheap supps im leaving out?
-Ive read many things saying glutamine doesn't work. Is this true?
-Does Anyone know where to get the other EAAs or other Amino Acids alone?

If anyone thinks that changing DiArginine Malate or Di-Creatine Malate amounts is a good idea let me know.

L-Leucine - 4500mg
L-Isoleucine - 800mg
L-Valine - 2000mg
L-Lysine - 2000mg
L-Phenylalanine - 1700mg
L-Threonine - 1400mg
L-Histidine - 650mg
L-Methionine -450mg
This is a typical EAA profile. Which do you need/Which help with recovery times?

Thanks

[NATHAN518]

You need all of the EAA's for protein synthesis. You are correct that leucine is the most beneficial BCAA. This is because it stimulates protein synthesis via the MTOR pathway. Infusion of free form leucine causes a spike in protein synthesis. You need all of the EAA's present as substrate for this process...

The EAA's are:
leucine, isoleucine, valine, threonine, phenylalanine, lysine, methionine, and tryptophan...

histidine and arginine are generally considered essential only for children and seniors

[JDeV]

However, for the histidine, it works synergistically with the beta alanine so it will still be included.

2Kg

500g EAAs 30.00
500g Leucine 12.50
100g Betaine Anhydrous 5.00
100g Beta alanine 8.00
200g Citrulline Malate 20.00
100g Glucuronolactone 8.00
300g Di-Creatine Malate 12.00
100g Orotic Acid 9.00
100g Taurine 4.00

Now the Price is: 108.5 for 2 Kg

I think i'm going to get rid of the ALCAR, at least for this formula. I am also getting rid of the Arginine because I don't think it works. It is in neither Purple Wraath or Xtend. I also removed Histidine because it is included in EAAs.

-Two questions...

-Do I now have too much Leucine? I will now have about 4g in a 10g serving.
-Since I have EAAs do I still need the extra Histidine? I currently have ~125mg. I guess thats enough since I only have 500g of Beta-Alanine.

[Btbam77]

[QUOTE=JDeV]
-Do I now have too much Leucine? I will now have about 4g in a 10g serving.
QUOTE]

too much as in proportionally to the rest of the serving or too much for a pre workout serving?

its not too much to take but if you were wondering if the leucine took up too much of the serving then i wouldn't say you're doing wrong with it as i've only heard good word about leucine.

ahh mess up on the quote..

[NATHAN518]

look again, purple wraath does have arginine...it depends on what you expect it to do...does it make you stronger or increase muscle mass? probably not. but, it is a NO precursor and DOES help shuttle nutrients to muscles...and if you want a "pump" you can have that as well...but, i do believe it is optional.

Histidine is not an EAA, so you should still include it with the beta-alanine

[P01Shooter]

Can I make a suggestion?

I would start with a few things and then add them as you see fit. This way you can buy 500 - 1000g's of each at a time. It will save you money over having it custom mixed and you can play with the amounts if you want.

For instance, I started with a kilo of alcar, a kilo of l-tyrosine, 2 bottles of caffiene, and a bunch of ephedrine for a pre-workout mix. Trust me, this kills as far as workout focus and intensity is concerned. Then I added ashwagandha as an adaptogen which I'm loving at 3 g's a day. Next was bulk na-rala and bacopa. I'm stylin' now and every step of the way I've been able to play with the numbers if I wanted plus I've been able to see what each one does as it's introduced. Next on the list is some a kilo of leucine and perhaps some cnidium moniera (sp?) or perhaps some form of arganine and ornithine. Anyways, it's been a lot of fun making my own stacks while knowing what each one does as well as knowing how much is the perfect amount for me.

If you initially spend $150 on stuff it will last a long time, you can experiment, and I think you'll be really happy that you went that route. I would also look into getting a flavoring system or something along those lines for the bulk powders. As a tip, when mixing with a flavoring system be sure to use very small amounts since sometimes just one ingredient can throw the whole thing out whack and it will taste horrible. Cee and na-rala come to mind. Alcar wasn't a problem.