calling all ectos ...

[cwsocr]

im curious to see what many of you have had success with routine wise. i've read numerous places that high intensity, moderate to low frequency, and low volume have rendered the best results for ectos as we can't repair our muscles as quickly as others. currently i do full body routines where i hit every main musle in my body with compound exercises on a 1 on, 2 off basis, with hourly workouts. just wondering what many of you have found success with? (i.e. push/pull, upper/lower, one muscle/day 4/5 day split routine, etc etc.)

[Defiant1]

im curious to see what many of you have had success with routine wise. i've read numerous places that high intensity, moderate to low frequency, and low volume have rendered the best results for ectos as we can't repair our muscles as quickly as others. currently i do full body routines where i hit every main musle in my body with compound exercises on a 1 on, 2 off basis, with hourly workouts. just wondering what many of you have found success with? (i.e. push/pull, upper/lower, one muscle/day 4/5 day split routine, etc etc.)

From observation and reading, TRUE ectos seem to best on:

Basic exercises
Short, relatively frequent workouts
Moderate to low relative volume per workout

Protein and carbs

[kethnaab]

5'7, 150 lbs?

doesn't sound like ecto to me. sounds like "untrained" to me

[cwsocr]

defiant, thats what i have found myself coming across more frequently when researching this topic. i switched to full bodies every third day a while back, from a strict 4 day split, and got decent results i guess. im still playing around with some things as i can't break the 160 barrier.

kethnaab, sorry man, but honestly, some of us just dont have the genes some of the "lucky" (if u call urself that) have. when u eat almost 4000 cals a day and train extremely hard and strict and you see some good results, but not spectacular, you can pretty much tell it's not in your genetic make-up to be a bodybuilder. i'm an athlete, not really a bodybuilder, theres a HUGE difference. i try to gain as much muscle, strength, and size for my sport as possible, which is what leads me to the bodybuilding lifestyle. before u take shots at someone, try to learn where they are coming from, as you had no clue what you were saying. i'm probably far more "trained" than you will ever be, but my "trained" isnt being 5'7 200 lbs at 8-10% BF (for example), thats not feasible for me nor my sport. this was a simple thread asking similar trainees as myself to give me some information on what worked for them, instead you tried to turn it into taking shots at someone who doesn't have the bodybuilding genes, but rather the athletic genes who tries to put on as much size and muscle that their body will let them while training for their sport. i mean i know im small, 5'7 150 is tiny, but its good for me, ive worked hard to be where i am. i do take it hard when someone calls me out, even when they know nothing about me. all i ask is to gather more information before you flame or call someone out. if you would like to offer some suggestions, i'll glady post my diet and routine and you can tell me what corrections you would make. i'll even try to post some pics if you'd like.

[kethnaab]

kethnaab, sorry buddy, but honestly, some of us just dont have the genes some of the "lucky" (if u call urself that) have.

I understand and recognize this.

before u take shots at someone, try to learn where they are coming from, as you had no clue what you were saying.

1) I didn't take a shot at anyone. People love to consider themselves "ectomorphs" or "hardgainers" or whatever. It's the self-defeatist attitude that people like to take when they don't get huge from doing a Muscle and Fitness workout of the month and drinking cell-tech. Not saying you did this, but consider how many posts per day I read about this subject, and consider how many of them do not have their stuff in order WRT training and diet.

Again, if you took it as a shot, no worries, it wasn't meant as one.

2) i'm probably far more "trained" than you will ever be, but my "trained" isnt being 5'7 200 lbs at 10% BF, thats not feasible for me nor my sport.

that's a big assumption. I assume that you are a soccer player from your name, cw"socr"? Many soccer players come into the army thinking they are the shiznit, then they are sucking wind when I toss them an 80-lb ruck. All of a sudden, they can't keep up with me....go figure.

hey, radical thought...perhaps the 4000 calories per day diet and the "good" training for muscle and strength is being undercut by playing soccer, since running 5-8 miles (Depending upon your position and playing time) tends to burn calories?

this was a simple thread asking similar trainees as myself to give me some information on what worked for them, instead you tried to turn it into taking shots at someone who doesn't have the bodybuilding genes, but rather the athletic genes who tries to put on as much size and muscle that their body will let them while training for their sport.

As I stated before, I didn't take a shot at you. If you check your original post, you made ABSOLUTELY ZERO MENTION of any "sport". You just said that you were an ecto. No mention of your routine. No mention of your diet. No mention of....anything. The focus was on being "an ecto"

Most true ectos who are 150 lbs are somewhere around 6' tall. At 5'7, your bone length isn't all that long, and your shoulders can't POSSIBLY be rail thin, or you wouldn't be 150 lbs. Hence my statement about being "untrained"

Now then, you may damn well be a phenominal runner. If so, congratulations! Fastest 2 miles I ever ran was 12:58 or so, at about 215 lbs, 5'8. I fuggin' hated it.

"We dwarves are wasted cross country. We're natural sprinters...very dangerous over short distances..."

That being said....*checks URL* yes...bodybuilding.com. Lance Armstrong, though incredibly well conditioned, would be "untrained" with the weights. So don't feel bad. You're in damn good company.

all i ask is to gather more information before you flame.

I didn't flame. I didn't even light a match. you are quite sensitive. S'okay, you'll get over it.

if you would like to offer some suggestions, i'll glady post my diet and routine and you can tell me what corrections you would make. i'll even try to post some pics if you'd like.

Shoulda done that in the first place.

[gdawg22]

Okay I could have been considered an ectomorph, but that was when like you I was playing soccer all the time. I was 5'7" 125lbs. Now I'm 5'7" 145lbs, it took me about 3 years to gain that weight. That may seem like a long time to alot of people, but through circumstances out of my control I had lost weight and had to regain it. Actually 20lbs has been a ton on my frame. I'm a pretty small guy, I don't have a large frame so 20 more lbs is alot for me. I gained the majority of the weight when I went really low on the amount of work that I do. Coming from an endurance sport, I really excelled at long workouts. So I made the mistake of training a bodypart a day split. This wasn't right for me because it was so much work it was similar to running for me. Not until I lowered the amount of sets and reps did I start to see results. So my progression of workouts is as follows:
first- bodypart split- didn't gain much
second- low/high rep split- I would do upper and lower workout of 3 reps then an upper/lower workout of 12 reps- so four times a week total- this gave me great results
third- I went to a strength program- starting strength- this gave me great results because I wasn't lifting very much- this builds a good base
currently- I'm doing hst to hit all the areas that are neglected in the starting strength and then I'm going to go to a 5x5

The best results for me has been to eat alot, and to reduce the endurance exercises. The endurance exercises streamline your body to adapt so its easier to do that activity. If your playing alot of soccer, you won't gain alot of weight. Its just so hard, but you can get some results if you eat a huge amount of calories.

[cwsocr]

its all good kethnaab, no worries, but i get stuff like that a ton on here and it wears on me after a while. i know what you mean by reading stuff like my post everyday all day though, it is annoying. i was taking in 4000 cals in the offseason during the 2 months off, therefore no running or much of anything, its our time off, and i still didnt gain much mass. granted, the my being more "trained" than you statement is great assumption, as we are obviously two different breeds (no way i could run 4 or 5 miles w/ 80 lbs on me, but thats half my weight) but also take into consideration that the majority of the so called "soccer players" or "athletes" you see in the army aren't really athletes or soccer players at all, they may think they are, but if they were really athletes they wouldn't be there in the first place, they'd be on scholarship or playing somewhere for pay. also, i didnt mention anything about my routine or diet in the original post b/c the post wasn't meant to be a critiquing thread, as i was just wondering what others found success with. however, i'd appreciate any suggestions you would have about my routine/diet. if you would be interested in taking a look for me i can PM my info to you. i may not seem like an ecto (like you said) since im 5'7 150, but my bodies normal weight, eating a normal diet on around maintenace calories for a 5'7 person is around 135, so that may fall closer to the ecto category. but anyway, thanks for the replies, no harm done.

[kethnaab]

its all good kethnaab, no worries, but i get stuff like that a ton on here and it wears on me after a while.

kinda like dudes calling themselves "ectos" or "hardgainers" with no experience.

again, however, I have no clue what your experience level is.

i was taking in 4000 cals in the offseason

I'd be interested in seeing your 4000 calories.

during the 2 months off, therefore no running or much of anything, its our time off, and i still didnt gain much mass.

deload time...need to have your deload time...

granted, the my being more "trained" than you statement is great assumption, as we are obviously two different breeds (no way i could run 4 or 5 miles w/ 80 lbs on me, but thats half my weight)

there ya go, it's only 1/3 of mine.

but also take into consideration that the majority of the so called "soccer players" or "athletes" you see in the army aren't really athletes or soccer players at all, they may think they are, but if they were really athletes they wouldn't be there in the first place, they'd be on scholarship or playing somewhere for pay.

typically the most talented players aren't necessarily the most conditioned. The ones that are talented can use their talent. The ones that are marginally talented need to rely on conditioning.

but that is neither here nor there

i'd appreciate any suggestions you would have about my routine/diet. if you would be interested in taking a look for me i can PM my info to you. if not, alls well, thanks for the replies.

post it up here! That way we all can look and laugh...er...help.

[mcgill09]

Just a thought...

It's nearly impossible to pass judgement on how muscular someone is and how hard or "properly" they work out just by reading their height and weight. 150 lbs at 5'7'' could be anywhere from pretty jacked to kindof fat to just plain skinny. It all depends on the person's frame.

For example, right now I'm 170 at 6'4''. Whenever i post my stats on here people flip out at how skinny that sounds and say go eat 5000 calories a day and start working out more efficiently. They don't realize that some people are just painfully skinny and will never really get completely jacked. It is just not in their genetic potential. 16 months ago i weighed 140 pounds, so 30 lbs in that period seems decent for an ectomorph. For who i am, 170 pounds is pretty damn big, yet people who don't know what's its like to have the thin frame will say at my height 170 is deathly thin. An extreme ectomorph like myself will probably never be able to get above a lean 210 or 215, EVEN at very tall heights...some people around here need to learn to recognize this.

Only you can know for yourself if you've made good progress or not, don't get disouraged by what other people say.

[kethnaab]

6'4, 140 lbs?

HOE-LEE-SHEEE-YIT

now THAT, monsignor cwsocr, is an ECTOMORPH

a MIGHTY MORPHIN' ECTOMORPH, even.

hey, 30 lbs in 16 months kicks ass!

if you ever hit 210, you'll have what amounts to the ideal Men's Health physique.

[cwsocr]

post it up here! That way we all can look and laugh...er...help.

routine: i rotate b/w 3 different routines, i'll lift one on, 3 off, 1 on, 3 off, abs are done before lifting days (lift, rest, rest, abs, lift, rest, rest .....)

routine 1: DB Decline: 4 X Failure (Failure falls b/w 4-10 reps), last set SS
DB Shoulder Press: 3 x 6-10
Pulls/Chins: 3 sets total w/ 35 lb plate (b/w 6-10 reps each set)
Tricep Pushdowns: 2 x 10-8 SS (straight pushdown, then leaning)
DB Shrugs: 3 x 15-10
BB Squats: 3 x Failure (Failure falls b/w 6-10 reps)
T-Bar Rows: 3 x 10-6
Forearm Rolls: 2 underhand x 20, 2 overhand x 20

routine 2: Flat DB: 4 x Failure, last set SS
Dips: 3 sets w/ 45 lb plate, 10-8
Pullovers: 3 x 10, 8, 6
Lateral DB Raises SS Reverse Flys: 2 x 10, 8
Deadlifts: 3 x 10-8
BB Bent Rows: 3 x 10-6
Calf Raises: 3 x 15
DB Curl (every other cycle): 2 x 10-6

routine 3: Incline DB: 4 x Failure, last set SS
French Press: 3 x 10-6
Lat Pulldowns: 3 x 10-6
Hang Cleans: 3 x 10-6
Seated Pulley Rows: 3 x 10-6
Leg Press: 3 x 20, 15, 10
Straight Leg DL: 3 x 10
BB Curl ( every other other cycle): 2 x 10-6

all exercises done w/ slow, controlled motion, as close to perfect form as possible, done b/w 60-70 minutes. suggestions? comments? i'll post sample diet i was on below.

[cwsocr]

diet: granted, this was last yr and ive learned A LOT about diet/timing/nutrients since then, this won't be what i follow in a month when i start bulking up again. but i thought it was sufficient for me to gain weight. i got to 160, but couldnt get past that. the number is the cals.

7 am: 1 cup oats 300
2 Tbsp Natty PB 190
3.5 Cups Rice Milk 315 (lactose intolerant, ive since cut this out)
ON Protein 220

11 am: 6 Chicken Strips 240
.5 cup unckd brown rice 340

2 pm: 2 Fish Filets 200
.5 cup unckd brown rice 340

5 pm: 1 chicken breast 170
.5 cup unckd brown rice 340

7:30 pm: 2 Fish Filets 200
.5 cup unckd brown rice 340
.5 cup unsalted nuts 340

10 pm: 1 chicken breast 170
.5 cup unckd brown rice 340

this totals 4045 total calories. ive wondered in the past if the reason i havnt had the expected results, although good not subperb, would be my fat intake was not high enough, as well as my percentages were skewed. as i stated, this WILL NOT be the way my new diet will take form starting next month. i didnt sort out my percentages last year, i simply tried to get in as many calories as possible. i havnt made my new diet up yet, but im planning on getting a 40/40/20 ratio at around 3500 cals per day. i know this diet has its flaws, im fully aware of that, but i still thought id get over the hump.

[kethnaab]

low fat diets with 0 beef tend not to work for mass or strength gain.

you need TONS of carbs. skinny dudes always do. 3500 is not going to be sufficient, I don't think. As you gain weight, you must add calories in order to continue to gain weight.

also, skinny dudes do NOT need to do failure training!

and lastly, skinny dudes don't need a lot of exercises, just a few good ones!

why lift 1 day, then 3 days off?

[TheCore]

Just eat, you skinny bastard

Lol, but seriously, eat more! Ectomorphs just need to focus on compound exercises, and most important on EATING!!!

Here is your motto;

Eating is not a luxury, it's a job!

All ectomorphs can still gain a lot of muscle, if they just eat more. The thing is, ecto's don't like to eat (I know, I was one).

WHen I first started training, I talked to this big guy in my gym (biggest and strongest natural lifter at out gym), and asked him questions about training (he didn't mind awnsering them). He told me he had studied nutrition and that it is one of the most important things there is, if you want to grow, he told me he always ate 6 big meals...

AFter hearing this, I started to ate six meals also , didn't know much about nutrition. I just though if I eat more, I will grow, and I did...! Gained a lot of fat also, but that was because I wasn't eating clean at the time (I was eating everything, even small children..., j/k ). But this made me realize ectomorphs just have to force themselves to eat.

So eat a lot and sleep 8-10 hours a day (I prefer 8 + powernap after training )

Hardgainers are another story...

I know one real hardgainer, he really needs to do everything right in order to gains muscle mass...

[Lovetolift1984]

Here is my program and from what I have learned I agree with the above- Calling yourself an ecto because you are skinny is not always correct because I was skinny due to lack of effort or knowledge. I went from 158-185 in 1.5 years so I may no longer be considered an ecto. I have had best results from lifting heavy and doing very basic exercises. Recently I have switched so more isolating work because I do not want to plateau out.

Here is my routine right now

Back and Bicep
Pullups- Recon Ron USMC(great program by the way) program week 16
Seated Row 3x10
21 guns with straight bar 85x7(3 sets)
Hammer Curl 3X8 35 lbs
Ez-Bar Curl 3 x6 30 seconds rest 80lbs
T-Bar Row 110X8(3 sets)
DB Row 60 X6(3 sets)
Situps Incline 2X20

Chest and Tri
Pullups again-(Dip Belt w/25 10-8-6)
Dips(25 dip belt 14-12-10)
Bench(185 3 sets 6 reps
Incline(115 3 sets 6 reps)
Rope tri Press Down 120 3 sets of 6
Decline Cable Press 70-80-90(or 100) 10 reps each or decline bench
Tricep Pushdown 100 3 sets of burnouts


Legs Forearms and abs
Pullups- Recon Ron
Leg Press 3 sets of 6-8 Reps
Leg Extension 3 Sets 6-8 Reps
Calve work on Leg Press Machine 90 3 Sets of burns
Hack Squat - 3 Sets to Failure
Forearm Curl on Bench w/bar 20-12-fail
Behind back forearm curl 45x2 14-12-10
Incline situps abs 3 sets of burns

[Defiant1]

Just so all are clear, a true ectomorph will have:

long thin arms and legs
short torso
angled rib cage at the thorax
long skinny hands and feet
an egg shaped head
little body fat
a "wired" or anxious disposition

Just because one is skinny doesn't make one an ectomorph. In fact, you can have a skinny endomorph or mesomorph, especially when young.

[cwsocr]

well then im not an ecto, as i am as far away to any of those things that you just described. i definatly had the definition of an ecto/body types wrong.

anyway, i lift one day on, 3 days off b/c i feel that's best for recovery. granted thats what im doing now, but im not eating as much as i will be soon, when im changing my routine. i was thinking about knocking one or 2 lifts out and lifting 1 on, 2 off, however.

failure to me may not be failure to other people. i call failure your last possible complete rep. if you are going for your 4th rep, and u just complete the rep, to where u know you wont be able to do another rep, that to me is what i call failure. not actually going for a 5th rep and only getting it up halfway when u already knew you couldnt press it. i guees it doesnt really follow the true definition of the word, but thats what i think of it as. so if this is indeed not the best thing to do, would i do something like this: i would just pick the number of reps i want to do (say 4) and lift X amount of weight for 4 reps one week, whether i could have done more or not? then if i did 4 with that weight, i would up the weight the next week and go for 4 reps of it? i feel the way i do them now is pretty quality actually, but it may not be. that other way seems logical, i'll switch to this if this is what you were suggesting as an option. also, what exercises do you consider i drop as i see benefits in all of them? i have also become attached to some lifts as that tends to happen. let me know, thanks.

[mcgill09]

has it ever really been shown that ectomorphs are more anxious than the other body types?

[mike2355]

wuts echotmorph is that a hardgainer? if so i think i may be one since im 17 5'10'' and 130 pounds... i think it might jus t be since i have been doing my programs wrong.. im pretty cut cuz i was doing way to many isolation exercises now im doing rippetoes and im on weight gainer and creatine.. hopefully i get bigger

[ProWrestlingFan]

Read "Scrawny to Brawny" and it will answer all your ectomorph questions and provide solutions. It's the only program that has ever worked for me.

[exan]

regarding ectos get more anxious is a fact, for I myself had an anxiety disorder due to stress both physically & mentally. I'ts more of a neuro-brain system matters and cortisol hormones w/c ectos produce a lot. Well that's another topic. Anyways, I started out weighing 135lbs, 5'11, w/all the characteristic of an ecto. As I always been picked on by friends and being conscious having a girlfriend back then, that I thought to myself I can't even protect her for being to skinny and weak I started weight training. It's a matter of trial & error I guess. With 1 year time I gained 15lbs, doing what I though was the right routine for me. Hitting the gym twice a week and only doing basic exercises, and eating as much as I can, although I had some fat storage on my waist. My overall physique was an impression from my friends. Now after 5 year I'm already 160lbs, and aiming for 180, I'm basically doing good with my own version of X-reps combined with HIT principles. And eating a clean bulk diet all year long. with regards to supplementation I basically take a multi(centrum), a weight gainer on & off(Universal Real Gains), ON 100% whey, that's about it. I don't take creatine. Looking forward in gettin more massive