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  1. #7051
    The Physique Architect str8flexed's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Quelly View Post
    pretty sure all the studies showing negative effects from training were done on endurance athletes during 60min+ long training bouts...not guys hitting reps and sets and taking rest time etc
    bingo.

    and on top of that, short term increases in cortisol really mean jack ****. It is long term low level elevations in cortisol that are catabolic. Cortisol is a hormone that needs to be elevated for a long period of time in order to cause damage because it acts at the DNA level so it takes time for mRNA transcripts to build up. It's not like insulin where it binds and 2 minutes later you have a response. Cortisol is much different. But the 'gurus' out there don't understand this and all they know is "ugh cortisol bad; me no like cortisol"

    hell i just finished reading a study where the groups that had the most hypertrophy also had the highest levels of cortisol post workout during the study.

    So to hell with the great cortisol myth.
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  2. #7052
    (っ◕‿◕)っ rallyum's Avatar
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    Awesome post!! I'm saving this post and pulling it out whenever the bros are bugging me about being in the gym a minute past the hour.. or for not taking my shake three seconds after i've set down the weights LOL. Oh noes, I'm going caTaBOLic!! have to avoid it at all costs if i wanna grow
    (\ /)
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  3. #7053
    IRONMAN camaleom's Avatar
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    Cool

    Originally Posted by str8flexed View Post
    this one took me about 2.5 hours
    damn...
    Don't settle for mediocrity; never let good enough be good enough.
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  4. #7054
    Registered User john_doe2's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by str8flexed View Post
    bingo.

    and on top of that, short term increases in cortisol really mean jack ****. It is long term low level elevations in cortisol that are catabolic. Cortisol is a hormone that needs to be elevated for a long period of time in order to cause damage because it acts at the DNA level so it takes time for mRNA transcripts to build up. It's not like insulin where it binds and 2 minutes later you have a response. Cortisol is much different. But the 'gurus' out there don't understand this and all they know is "ugh cortisol bad; me no like cortisol"

    hell i just finished reading a study where the groups that had the most hypertrophy also had the highest levels of cortisol post workout during the study.

    So to hell with the great cortisol myth.
    Interesting. So does that mean that an experienced natural bodybuilder can experience gains on routines that are similar to the high volume workout routines that bodybuilders used back in the "golden era" of bodybuilding?
    Last edited by john_doe2; 07-29-2009 at 01:26 PM.
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  5. #7055
    D R E A M burke's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by str8flexed View Post
    bingo.

    and on top of that, short term increases in cortisol really mean jack ****. It is long term low level elevations in cortisol that are catabolic. Cortisol is a hormone that needs to be elevated for a long period of time in order to cause damage because it acts at the DNA level so it takes time for mRNA transcripts to build up. It's not like insulin where it binds and 2 minutes later you have a response. Cortisol is much different. But the 'gurus' out there don't understand this and all they know is "ugh cortisol bad; me no like cortisol"

    hell i just finished reading a study where the groups that had the most hypertrophy also had the highest levels of cortisol post workout during the study.

    So to hell with the great cortisol myth.
    Layne... could daily stimulant use at fairly high levels cause "long term elevations" in cortisol? The reason I ask is because I am a stim junkie and there are many people that advise against the use of stims because they are "catabolic".
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  6. #7056
    :-) TinaBee's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by str8flexed View Post
    week 3; day 1 sheiko 29

    squats
    1- 135 X 12
    2- 185 X 9
    3- 245 X 6
    4- 285 X 5
    5- 310 X 5
    6- 365 X 4
    7- 425 X 3
    8- 425 X 3
    9- 480 X 2
    10- 480 X 2
    11- 480 X 2
    12- 480 X 2
    13- 285 X 3
    14- 340 X 3
    15- 395 X 3
    16- 455 X 3
    17- 455 X 3
    18- 455 X 3
    19- 455 X 3

    bench press
    1- 135 X 10
    2- 160 X 5
    3- 190 X 4
    4- 225 X 3
    5- 225 X 3
    6- 250 X 3
    7- 250 X 3
    8- 250 X 3
    9- 250 X 3
    10- 250 X 3
    11- 250 X 3

    machine flyes
    5 sets of 10 with 200 lbs

    weighted push ups
    bodyweight + 35 lbs X 10 for 5 sets

    good mornings
    1- 135 X 5
    2- 185 X 5
    3- 225 X 5
    4- 225 X 5
    5- 225 X 5

    mixed in 10 sets of calves in there as well.

    -Layne
    My first time checking out your journal and my jaw literally dropped open reading that! Good job!
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  7. #7057
    I deadlift in Chucks.. magnet's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by str8flexed View Post
    week 3; day 1 sheiko 29

    squats
    1- 135 X 12
    2- 185 X 9
    3- 245 X 6
    4- 285 X 5
    5- 310 X 5
    6- 365 X 4
    7- 425 X 3
    8- 425 X 3
    9- 480 X 2
    10- 480 X 2
    11- 480 X 2
    12- 480 X 2
    13- 285 X 3
    14- 340 X 3
    15- 395 X 3
    16- 455 X 3
    17- 455 X 3
    18- 455 X 3
    19- 455 X 3

    bench press
    1- 135 X 10
    2- 160 X 5
    3- 190 X 4
    4- 225 X 3
    5- 225 X 3
    6- 250 X 3
    7- 250 X 3
    8- 250 X 3
    9- 250 X 3
    10- 250 X 3
    11- 250 X 3

    machine flyes
    5 sets of 10 with 200 lbs

    weighted push ups
    bodyweight + 35 lbs X 10 for 5 sets

    good mornings
    1- 135 X 5
    2- 185 X 5
    3- 225 X 5
    4- 225 X 5
    5- 225 X 5

    mixed in 10 sets of calves in there as well.

    -Layne
    Great job Layne! Keep up the good work!
    My Journal:
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=117827651

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  8. #7058
    The Physique Architect str8flexed's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by john_doe2 View Post
    Interesting. So does that mean that an experienced natural bodybuilder can experience gains on routines that are similar to the high volume workout routines that bodybuilders used back in the "golden era" of bodybuilding?
    sure
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  9. #7059
    The Physique Architect str8flexed's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by TinaBee View Post
    My first time checking out your journal and my jaw literally dropped open reading that! Good job!
    thanks; we do work around here
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  10. #7060
    Grow Time Frankdaddy's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by str8flexed View Post
    thanks; we do work around here
    THATS CORRECT!


    Are you gonna put me on this skeiko stuff? I want all the pain as well
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  11. #7061
    Registered User john_doe2's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by str8flexed View Post
    sure
    Sweet! I swear, I learn something new every time I look at this thread. Thanks for informing us Layne! You are redefining what is possible for natural bodybuilders!
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  12. #7062
    JACKED VforVlad's Avatar
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    Layne, do u ever have lower back discomfort the day after a heavy squat day? Like...85%+ of your 1RM... if you do, do u have any tips on relieving it? Everyone ive asked says my form is tight and my back has a good arch to it, but i still get discomfort after heavy squats... i also use a belt.

    thanks,
    VforVlad
    anybody can heave-ho that -ish, but only a bodybuilder can make the muscle do the work

    mass or GTFO


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  13. #7063
    :-) TinaBee's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by str8flexed View Post
    thanks; we do work around here
    Originally Posted by Frankdaddy View Post
    THATS CORRECT!


    Are you gonna put me on this skeiko stuff? I want all the pain as well
    Well it certainly shows. Good work boys :-P
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  14. #7064
    The Physique Architect str8flexed's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Frankdaddy View Post
    THATS CORRECT!


    Are you gonna put me on this skeiko stuff? I want all the pain as well
    in time young jedi
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  15. #7065
    The Physique Architect str8flexed's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by VforVlad View Post
    Layne, do u ever have lower back discomfort the day after a heavy squat day? Like...85%+ of your 1RM... if you do, do u have any tips on relieving it? Everyone ive asked says my form is tight and my back has a good arch to it, but i still get discomfort after heavy squats... i also use a belt.

    thanks,
    VforVlad
    is it sore or is there a different type of pain
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  16. #7066
    The Physique Architect str8flexed's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by TinaBee View Post
    Well it certainly shows. Good work boys :-P
    thanks
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  17. #7067
    Registered User devo09's Avatar
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    1. So layne with a 2.5 hour workout what kind of intra-workout nutrition are you intaking?

    2.Do you know a good website explaining sheiko?

    3. You're doing the 3 day per week sheiko?

    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=111082701

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  18. #7068
    Registered User 0verc0m3's Avatar
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    Glad to see sheiko is at work!
    I'm about to start my 3rd cycle, and the results so far have been great for me.
    My workouts last forever though...i'll hafta switch it up during school.
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  19. #7069
    TGZ kitarpyar's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by str8flexed View Post
    week 3; day 1 sheiko 29

    squats
    1- 135 X 12
    2- 185 X 9
    3- 245 X 6
    4- 285 X 5
    5- 310 X 5
    6- 365 X 4
    7- 425 X 3
    8- 425 X 3
    9- 480 X 2
    10- 480 X 2
    11- 480 X 2
    12- 480 X 2
    13- 285 X 3
    14- 340 X 3
    15- 395 X 3
    16- 455 X 3
    17- 455 X 3
    18- 455 X 3
    19- 455 X 3

    bench press
    1- 135 X 10
    2- 160 X 5
    3- 190 X 4
    4- 225 X 3
    5- 225 X 3
    6- 250 X 3
    7- 250 X 3
    8- 250 X 3
    9- 250 X 3
    10- 250 X 3
    11- 250 X 3

    machine flyes
    5 sets of 10 with 200 lbs

    weighted push ups
    bodyweight + 35 lbs X 10 for 5 sets

    good mornings
    1- 135 X 5
    2- 185 X 5
    3- 225 X 5
    4- 225 X 5
    5- 225 X 5

    mixed in 10 sets of calves in there as well.

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  20. #7070
    JACKED VforVlad's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by str8flexed View Post
    is it sore or is there a different type of pain
    its not really sore or painful.. just a stiff-ish feeling like if youve been sitting in an uncomfortable position for too long, also its more uncomfortable in the mornings
    anybody can heave-ho that -ish, but only a bodybuilder can make the muscle do the work

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  21. #7071
    The Physique Architect str8flexed's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by VforVlad View Post
    its not really sore or painful.. just a stiff-ish feeling like if youve been sitting in an uncomfortable position for too long, also its more uncomfortable in the mornings
    well honestly i'm not a doc so i'm probably not the person to be asking. I honestly don't know
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  22. #7072
    Registered User jlbush's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by VforVlad View Post
    its not really sore or painful.. just a stiff-ish feeling like if youve been sitting in an uncomfortable position for too long, also its more uncomfortable in the mornings

    I would say it's your mattress...You might be fatiguing your back during the squats (maybe goodmorning it a bit perhaps), but that's exactly how I would have described my back pain as well and I noticed it more on days that I had to support my lower back more (especially rows)...Like it would hurt to bend over the sink the next morning and brush my teeth, but after say an 1/2 -1 hour or so of just normal moving around my back felt fine. I never really knew what to attribute it to, but I got a new bed and it seriously went away the first night on it. Funny thing is the mattresses are not much different feel wise (they both "feel comfortable and supportive"). I wasn't one to think a bed could make that much of a difference, but it did for me.
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  23. #7073
    JACKED VforVlad's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by str8flexed View Post
    well honestly i'm not a doc so i'm probably not the person to be asking. I honestly don't know
    Thanks for the response i was just interested in how heavy squats would affect your back.
    anybody can heave-ho that -ish, but only a bodybuilder can make the muscle do the work

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  24. #7074
    The Physique Architect str8flexed's Avatar
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    well i mean obviously they can mess up your back if you aren't doing them right; but I have no idea what is wrong with your back in particular
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  25. #7075
    String Theory nano.ix's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by str8flexed View Post
    bingo.

    and on top of that, short term increases in cortisol really mean jack ****. It is long term low level elevations in cortisol that are catabolic. Cortisol is a hormone that needs to be elevated for a long period of time in order to cause damage because it acts at the DNA level so it takes time for mRNA transcripts to build up. It's not like insulin where it binds and 2 minutes later you have a response. Cortisol is much different. But the 'gurus' out there don't understand this and all they know is "ugh cortisol bad; me no like cortisol"

    hell i just finished reading a study where the groups that had the most hypertrophy also had the highest levels of cortisol post workout during the study.

    So to hell with the great cortisol myth.
    would you say that this also concludes cortisol products to be bunk?

    I've been reading up on it my self but still dont have enough to create an educated opinion on the matter

    Originally Posted by devo09 View Post
    1. So layne with a 2.5 hour workout what kind of intra-workout nutrition are you intaking?

    2.Do you know a good website explaining sheiko?

    3. You're doing the 3 day per week sheiko?

    2)
    http://www.elitefts.com/sheiko/
    Last edited by nano.ix; 07-30-2009 at 09:17 AM.
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  26. #7076
    The Physique Architect str8flexed's Avatar
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    doesn't make them bunk; but they should be used during times of high stress when cortisol is constantly elevated
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  27. #7077
    Registered User toddbz's Avatar
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    So Layne I have a question. I've been switching over to hook grip for deads and I'm wondering on your sets of multiple reps do you use that grip? I know I saw one vid where you used straps but that was on defecits.
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  28. #7078
    Time to get big devinh's Avatar
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    Todd, if i remember correctly, Layne said that he used straps for lighter weight/higher reps, but for competition purposes and his attempts he used hook grip. so that he didn't tear his thumbs off for no good reason (maybe not word for word ). unless something has changed or i am remembering it incorrectly.
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  29. #7079
    Registered User quickups's Avatar
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    Hey Layne do you have any experience with pinch nerves? I have a pinch nerve in the lower back/upper glute area and have been going to a chiropractor to help it heal quicker. I am unable to do squats, leg press, deadlifts because of the pressure I put in my lower back. Do you have any suggestions or tips to help me recover quicker? It's been over two months now.
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  30. #7080
    Time to get big devinh's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by quickups View Post
    Hey Layne do you have any experience with pinch nerves? I have a pinch nerve in the lower back/upper glute area and have been going to a chiropractor to help it heal quicker. I am unable to do squats, leg press, deadlifts because of the pressure I put in my lower back. Do you have any suggestions or tips to help me recover quicker? It's been over two months now.
    I know I'm not Layne and I'm by no means a doctor, but are you absolutely sure it's a pinched nerve? Could it be a sciatica issue due to a tight piriformis muscle? I ask this because you say it on your right side and I just went through the same thing. Does it hurt worse when you sit down? I would suggest for either scenario a lot of stretching. Stretch your legs, glutes, it bands, piriformis, everything. Just my 2 cents here since I know doesn't want a big q&a anymore
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