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  1. #1
    AEN Board Rep HalleluYAH's Avatar
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    Ecdysterone, 20-beta-hydroxyecdysterone or Rhaponticum Carthamoides Extract?

    All, I am in the process of trying to decipher which of the following would be most beneficial to realize the increased protein synthesis effects of ecdy:

    1) ecdysterone
    2) 20-beta-hydroxyecdysterone
    3) Rhaponticum carthamoides

    Based on initial research, it appears that taking Rhaponticum carthamoides whole extract is superior to that of individual ecdysterones.

    Has anyone tried the 95% Rhaponticum carthamoides powder? How about Ecdypure? Please read the information posted below, unless you are already familiar, and discuss...

    The following on-topic excerpt was taken from:
    http://www.rhodiolarosea.org/Web-Rhaponticum.pdf
    Introduction: Rhaponticum carthamoides (Willd) Ijin, also know as Leuzea, or Maral root, is plant indigenous to the Lake Baikal region and distributed throughout Eastern Siberia. Traditionally the Siberians consumed the Leuzea tea mixed with Rhodiola rosea root for a long time as a natural stimulant, in cases of tiredness and general weakness after illness and energizing remedy after the long Siberian winter...

    Phytochemistry: Key active constituents responsible for specific anabolic effect of Rhaponticum carthamoides is a mixture of compounds called, "levseins". Levseins represents a complex of more than 10 ecdysterones including 20-beta-ecdysterone, makisterone C, 24-dehydromakisterone A, carthamosterone, polypodyne B and ajugasterone C.

    Pharmacology: According to Russian researchers the Leuzea extract stimulates muscle protein synthesis by increasing the activity of the polyribosomes. Polyribosomes are the cellular compartments where the actual protein synthesis takes place. Researchers extracted and purified various ecdysteroids from Leuzea and found that the ecdysteroids increased the mass of the developing quails in a dose-dependent manner, with the rate of increase proportional to the ecdysteroids content. It was evident that the plethora of growth-promoting, vitamin-like effects induced by Leuzea is mediated by ecdysteroids.

    However it is important to point out that the mixture of ecdysterones was found to be responsible for enhancement of muscle protein synthesis. The research indicated that the whole extract of Rhaponticum carthamoides containing mixture of levseins possess much superior physiological activity compared with the activity of purified individual constituents (Seifulla 1999). Results indicated that 0.5mg/kg body weight is the optimal dosage of 20-beta-ecdysterone in any sport and performance formula.

    Rhaponticum carthamoides - A Powerful Natural Anabolic Back in the '70s, the Soviet sports teams were caught using numerous steroids. In 1976 Soviet scientists discovered two substances that had traditional historical use behind them. One was a plant called Rhaponticum carthamoides, the active ingredient of which is called beta-ecdysterone. The Soviets manufactured a synthetic version of this powerful substance for their athletes with great success. Soon after, the U.S. version called Mesobolin circulated on the underground market for a long time. In back-to-back studies with animals, the Rhaponticum extract was actually superior to synthetic steroids like Dianabol at inducing endurance and muscle cell growth (Syrov et al. 1976, 1992).

    The examination of the difference in action between beta-ecdysterone and synthetic steroids revealed that the latter go directly to the nucleus of a cell to tell the blueprint, the DNA, to produce more RNA. Then the RNA tells the ribosome to produce more protein. Beta-ecdysterone, on the other hand, goes directly to the ribosome and increases what is called translation, the rate at which new protein is being made (Syrov et al. 1984)...
    Here is another excellent article entitled:
    Phytoecdysteroids:
    http://www.rrreading.com/ecdysteroids_rklein.pdf

    Here is a chart taken from the above article:
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    Last edited by HalleluYAH; 06-13-2006 at 12:17 PM.
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  2. #2
    Sometimes I can be a dick jkeithc82's Avatar
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    Sweet, the weekly Ecdy thread. 12 pages by tonight.
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  3. #3
    AEN Board Rep HalleluYAH's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by jkeithc82
    Sweet, the weekly Ecdy thread. 12 pages by tonight.
    hopefully, trying to decipher which option is most benefical will put a new spin on things.

    do you know of anyone who has tried the Rhaponticum carthamoides extract?
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  4. #4
    Sometimes I can be a dick jkeithc82's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by HalleluYAH
    hopefully, trying to decipher which option is most benefical will put a new spin on things.

    do you know of anyone who has tried the Rhaponticum carthamoides extract?
    LOL dude, I love your threads and have so much respect for you. But this is debated almost weekly, and really never ends well. I'm staying out of this thread for the most part, just warning you about what to expect.

    Carry on.
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  5. #5
    AEN Board Rep HalleluYAH's Avatar
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    Here is another excerpt from the article listed above:

    Toxicity: From more than 80 species of plants containing phyto-ecdysterones only Leuzea extract was shown very safe for humans at even high dosages. The extract did not produce mortality after administration of very large doses (up to 4 g/kg). After administration of relatively high doses above 10 g/kg, there occurred some functional changes in CNS, manifested by weakening of some reflexes, a decrease in muscle tone, an increase of the narcotic effects of chloral hydrate and a tendency towards impaired learning and memory. [color=red][/b]It is always a good idea to remember that taking “more is not always good” for you.[color][/b]
    Question is, how much is too much, for a 200lb bodybuilder before the negatives listed such as loss of muscle tone, outweight the positives?
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  6. #6
    SNS Rep beer20's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by HalleluYAH
    hopefully, trying to decipher which option is most benefical will put a new spin on things.

    do you know of anyone who has tried the Rhaponticum carthamoides extract?
    ive used thermolife's Ecdysten,but it was stacked with a few other products,so its hard for me to say how well it worked.
    i did have very positive results from the stack it was included in though.
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  7. #7
    four left turns to go... nni's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by HalleluYAH
    Here is another excerpt from the article listed above:



    Question is, how much is too much, for a 200lb bodybuilder before the negatives listed such as loss of muscle tone, outweight the positives?
    this really isnt going to add much, but ecdysten (ecdypure) is recommended at 9 pills a day (135mg). i am currently testing this. i have tried scifits (from the cv) at 900mg - 1.2g and noticed nothing.
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  8. #8
    Hard Body Clemenza's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by HalleluYAH
    Here is another excerpt from the article listed above:



    Question is, how much is too much, for a 200lb bodybuilder before the negatives listed such as loss of muscle tone, outweight the positives?

    4g/Kg is like 300g. Why would anyone take that much of anything?
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  9. #9
    AEN Board Rep HalleluYAH's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by nni
    this really isnt going to add much, but ecdysten (ecdypure) is recommended at 9 pills a day (135mg). i am currently testing this. i have tried scifits (from the cv) at 900mg - 1.2g and noticed nothing.
    Yes, I just subcribed to your new log.

    Perhaps I should copy abnd paste this to Danes thread here?
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=770406

    Search function was not working when I started this thread???
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    none of those chemicals are gonna be anything Special...if its Turkestone.,...then ur talking some real Anabolic Properties...back to the drawing board buddy...if u want some info on it...let me know...i got mounds of documents here
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    I am running a log on syntrax's Syntra EC if you are interested, the link is in my sig.
    Syntra EC is Cyanotis Vaga Extract: 275mg
    -(Standardized for 200mg 20-Hydroxyecdysterone and 250mg TOTAL ecdysteroids)
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    Head Representative Zachattack43's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by OMMID
    none of those chemicals are gonna be anything Special...if its Turkestone.,...then ur talking some real Anabolic Properties...back to the drawing board buddy...if u want some info on it...let me know...i got mounds of documents here
    just post the documents
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  13. #13
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    ecdysterone = 20-beta-hydroxyecdysterone
    i believe kingdomCome bought some bulk rhaponcticum powder and is going to be dosing it at 20 grams a day (the only way he can get a decent amount of actives) and i'm looking forward to his results. it should be pretty good, but the annoyance of having to take 20 grams a day probably isn't worth it. ecdysterone is effective (and probably the most cost effective) but there are other ecdysteroids that are more potent, at least one of which will be in e-bol. if you can find a source for turkesterone that is quality and isn't so expensive that you have to mortgage your house, then buy a bunch of it and grow
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    Originally Posted by 391rippy
    ecdysterone = 20-beta-hydroxyecdysterone
    i believe kingdomCome bought some bulk rhaponcticum powder and is going to be dosing it at 20 grams a day (the only way he can get a decent amount of actives) and i'm looking forward to his results. it should be pretty good, but the annoyance of having to take 20 grams a day probably isn't worth it. ecdysterone is effective (and probably the most cost effective) but there are other ecdysteroids that are more potent, at least one of which will be in e-bol. if you can find a source for turkesterone that is quality and isn't so expensive that you have to mortgage your house, then buy a bunch of it and grow

    When should we expect to see EBol hit the shelves?
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    Originally Posted by Clemenza
    When should we expect to see EBol hit the shelves?
    not soon enough. it will probably be quite a few months
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  16. #16
    AEN Board Rep HalleluYAH's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by 391rippy
    ecdysterone = 20-beta-hydroxyecdysterone
    From what I understand, ecdysterone is the same thing as Ecdypure in Thermolife's Ecdysten, while hydroxyecdysterone is the active in SciVation Anagen, no?
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    Originally Posted by HalleluYAH
    From what I understand, ecdysterone is the same thing as Ecdypure in Thermolife's Ecdysten, while hydroxyecdysterone is the active in SciVation Anagen, no?
    i've never been able to find an exact answer, but everything i've read seems to point out that all of the different names (Ecdysterone, 20-hydroxyecdysteron, 20-hydroxyecdysone, 20-betahydroxyecdysterone, ekdisterone, etc.) are all the same. i've often seen the rhaponcticum carthamoide ecdysterone referrred to as 20-hydroxyecdysone, and cyanatis vaga referred to as 20-hydroxyecdysterone, but many people who are smarter than I have said that the names are all referring to the same extract. That's not to say that the different sources don't have different potency, however....
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    and Ecdypure is just a trade name for ecdysterone extracted from rhaponcticum carthamoides
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    Originally Posted by 391rippy
    i've never been able to find an exact answer, but everything i've read seems to point out that all of the different names (Ecdysterone, 20-hydroxyecdysteron, 20-hydroxyecdysone, 20-betahydroxyecdysterone, ekdisterone, etc.) are all the same. i've often seen the rhaponcticum carthamoide ecdysterone referrred to as 20-hydroxyecdysone, and cyanatis vaga referred to as 20-hydroxyecdysterone, but many people who are smarter than I have said that the names are all referring to the same extract. That's not to say that the different sources don't have different potency, however....
    To quote another poster from another forum...

    "there are two main extracts of ecdysterone. 20-hydroxyecdysone from rhaponcticum carthamoides, which is what was used in russia and has numerous studies on it. there is also 20-hydroxyecdysterone extracted from cyanatis vega, which has little research on it and is the type that scivation will be using in their products. gram for gram, cyanatis vega is cheaper, however it requires a much higher dosage to get results, so in the end they come out costing about the same. there are a few bulk suppliers of ecdy from cyanatis vega, and if you want a bulk amount of ecdysten, PM me and i'll see what i can work out for you."
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    Originally Posted by HalleluYAH
    To quote another poster from another forum...

    "there are two main extracts of ecdysterone. 20-hydroxyecdysone from rhaponcticum carthamoides, which is what was used in russia and has numerous studies on it. there is also 20-hydroxyecdysterone extracted from cyanatis vega, which has little research on it and is the type that scivation will be using in their products. gram for gram, cyanatis vega is cheaper, however it requires a much higher dosage to get results, so in the end they come out costing about the same. there are a few bulk suppliers of ecdy from cyanatis vega, and if you want a bulk amount of ecdysten, PM me and i'll see what i can work out for you."
    Ecdysone and Ecdysterone are the same thing. Just a different name.

    For what it is worth, we believe it is the extract, not the source, that matters.
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    Originally Posted by Scivation
    Ecdysone and Ecdysterone are the same thing. Just a different name.

    For what it is worth, we believe it is the extract, not the source, that matters.
    Yes, but aren't there like 80 or so plants that produce ecdys; some with anabolic and others adaptogenic properties?
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    Originally Posted by HalleluYAH
    Yes, but aren't there like 80 or so plants that produce ecdys?
    Yes Sir. and we are after the 20-Beta-Hydroxyecdysterone and are not too impressed with Turkesterone (spelling?) at this point.

    This is ALL we want, whether it is from Suma, Rhaponticum or Cyanotis. People have different views on this obviously.
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    Originally Posted by Scivation
    Yes Sir. and we are after the 20-Beta-Hydroxyecdysterone and are not too impressed with Turkesterone (spelling?) at this point.

    This is ALL we want, whether it is from Suma, Rhaponticum or Cyanotis. People have different views on this obviously.
    Excellent. What are your thoughts on this quote from the article I referenced above..?

    "The research indicated that the whole extract of Rhaponticum carthamoides containing mixture of levseins possess much superior physiological activity compared with the activity of purified individual constituents (Seifulla 1999)."
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    Originally Posted by HalleluYAH
    To quote another poster from another forum...

    "there are two main extracts of ecdysterone. 20-hydroxyecdysone from rhaponcticum carthamoides, which is what was used in russia and has numerous studies on it. there is also 20-hydroxyecdysterone extracted from cyanatis vega, which has little research on it and is the type that scivation will be using in their products. gram for gram, cyanatis vega is cheaper, however it requires a much higher dosage to get results, so in the end they come out costing about the same. there are a few bulk suppliers of ecdy from cyanatis vega, and if you want a bulk amount of ecdysten, PM me and i'll see what i can work out for you."
    yes, and i believe that poster later realized that he made a mistake and apologized for that.
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    Originally Posted by HalleluYAH
    Excellent. What are your thoughts on this quote from the article I referenced above..?

    "The research indicated that the whole extract of Rhaponticum carthamoides containing mixture of levseins possess much superior physiological activity compared with the activity of purified individual constituents (Seifulla 1999)."
    I do believe that the ecdysteroid containing plants such as Suma, Cyanotis and Rhaponticum contain many other beneficial ecdysteroids. The one we are interested in for anabolism is 20-Beta-Hydroxyecdysterone though. In fact, I do not believe we can test what source ecdysterone comes from, we can only test the total amount of an active ingredient. It has even been said that a lot of the products on the market might not even be from the source they claim. I do not know this for a fact, but this is just pointing out that it is nearly impossible to determine via 3rd party what source your 20-Beta-Hydroxyecdysterone came from as far as I know (correct me if I am wrong and PLEASE tell me what lab does this!).

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    Originally Posted by HalleluYAH
    Excellent. What are your thoughts on this quote from the article I referenced above..?

    "The research indicated that the whole extract of Rhaponticum carthamoides containing mixture of levseins possess much superior physiological activity compared with the activity of purified individual constituents (Seifulla 1999)."
    i agree with that. there are a bunch of other ecdysteroids in RC that are potent anabolics. turkesterone, cyasterone, and ponasterone are just a few other ecdysteroids that are just as, if not more, anabolic than ecdysterone. a combination of those would be very effective.
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    turkesterone: any more info on this thing? seems to be the next greatest thing the way it's being talked about.
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    Originally Posted by Mr. Aries
    turkesterone: any more info on this thing? seems to be the next greatest thing the way it's being talked about.
    there's a little bit of info on it here www.auburn.edu/~shanncb/ecdysterone.pdf

    it's supposed to be very anabolic, only problem is getting a quality source at a decent price. some other ecdysteroids may not be as potent mg per mg, but are more cost effective, which is more important
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    Originally Posted by OMMID
    none of those chemicals are gonna be anything Special...if its Turkestone.,...then ur talking some real Anabolic Properties...back to the drawing board buddy...if u want some info on it...let me know...i got mounds of documents here
    Sounds interesting. Please post.
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    Anagen is dirt cheap, so just buy some and try it! LOL, seriously!
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