Are you getting the help you want from this section:

[latrell]

Hi ladies and gents, I was just wondering if you were all getting all the help you wanted or needed from this section. If not talk about how we can help you more so you can reach your goals quicker , cheers.

[payton34]

purple monkey dishwasher

[WSUcougs]

I think this section is fine how it is.

There are plenty of resources for new lifters who need a program for their goals. And plenty of experienced lifters to help with any questions people may have.

[paycheck]

well its funny in a way because what I post here doesnt correlate with what I see and from what advice I recieve from people that have been lifting for 20+years.

everyone I know follows a split and everyone thats on this board is almost like a group of fullbody/5x5/rippetoe nazis that keep toting the same workout.And yes even those who are natural who compete in natural bb contests use splits. And if you go over to the pictures forum every post almost is a split. And there are lots of individuals there making good success. And they may not know much and they may not have alot of experience, but Im more incline to ask them for advice then this section.

It would help however if those people who gave advice posted up their pictures. I mean for all I know you guys could be senior citizens with nothing to do.

Calling out names, since someone listed these names. I added iron addict since he comes here a lot.

.) kethnaab- seen your pic
2.) dominik
3.) All Pro
4.) TheCore
5.) Serpens Aeon
6.) RipStone- seen your pic (great progress by the way, Ive been following up in your journal)
7.) LiquidTension
8)IRonaddict - For some reason I get the image of the ultimate warrior.
Anyone can put numbers in a sig, but a picture is worth a thousand words. no Im not saying post your pic everytime, but we would like to see the pics of the members offering advice and who we are told are knowledgeable. Let your build do the talking.

the proof is in the pudding. People follow routines in the mags for one plain reason, The picture of the guy next to the workout is of one who is BUILT. Not the best example but you guys get the point.

Also it would help if individuals on this board posts werent so attacking. Some of the information was good but the wording and the way it was posted just became a total turn off and made the poster seem unintelligble. there was a post suggesting a good workout, low volume etc. But the way it was worded was enough turn me off and go do arnies program.

The rep system sucks aswell. It doesnt mean **** really, a person with 300 reps may have posted up pics of trish stratus nude and gotten repped for it and come over and posted workout advice. It means nada. Does a 300 rep score give me a phd?

And then theres guys who just started lifting who are posting up info that they just read at t-nation thinking that its legit and coming over here. Andalite Im sorry but Im referring to you.

I just find it funny that your doing periodization with rippetoe. Ive seen your wieghts and your build and you dont need periodization. Im lifting the exact same wieght as you in most lifts. And I just started.

Remember this is a bbing site one thing that bbers say over and over is that you gotta find out what works best for you!



For some it may take 3 months others it may take 3 years or even 5+.

also some of the info is conflicting in the stickies. one workout says use 10-12 reps if your a begginer and then everyone saying use rippetoe where the reps are 5. And then theres the pyramid workout aswell 8, 6, 4, 2.

You can neg me if you want guys, but this is what could be improved.

[latrell]

ok what I have to say to you is you don't have to have a super physique to be a great trainer or give off good advice, really they have no relation. Just cuz Ronnie is the greatest BBer in the world, doesn't mean he gives the best advice. I had a great physique back in the day, but a life, gf, university, injuries came in the way, and I dont have the physique I had when I was 19-21, doesn't make me less knowledgable. Now I really know more, I know 50x more about bodybuilding, nutrition, supplements, proper training, and injury prevention that i knew then.

[latrell]

and you are a living example of the faults of the rep system

[JoeyTS]

Originally Posted by paycheck

well its funny in a way because what I post here doesnt correlate with what I see and from what advice I recieve from people that have been lifting for 20+years.

everyone I know follows a split and everyone thats on this board is almost like a group of fullbody/5x5/rippetoe nazis that keep toting the same workout.And yes even those who are natural who compete in natural bb contests use splits. And if you go over to the pictures forum every post almost is a split. And there are lots of individuals there making good success. And they may not know much and they may not have alot of experience, but Im more incline to ask them for advice then this section.

It would help however if those people who gave advice posted up their pictures. I mean for all I know you guys could be senior citizens with nothing to do.

Calling out names, since someone listed these names. I added iron addict since he comes here a lot.

.) kethnaab- seen your pic
2.) dominik
3.) All Pro
4.) TheCore
5.) Serpens Aeon
6.) RipStone- seen your pic (great progress by the way, Ive been following up in your journal)
7.) LiquidTension
8)IRonaddict - For some reason I get the image of the ultimate warrior.
Anyone can put numbers in a sig, but a picture is worth a thousand words. no Im not saying post your pic everytime, but we would like to see the pics of the members offering advice and who we are told are knowledgeable. Let your build do the talking.

the proof is in the pudding. People follow routines in the mags for one plain reason, The picture of the guy next to the workout is of one who is BUILT. Not the best example but you guys get the point.

Also it would help if individuals on this board posts werent so attacking. Some of the information was good but the wording and the way it was posted just became a total turn off and made the poster seem unintelligble. there was a post suggesting a good workout, low volume etc. But the way it was worded was enough turn me off and go do arnies program.

The rep system sucks aswell. It doesnt mean **** really, a person with 300 reps may have posted up pics of trish stratus nude and gotten repped for it and come over and posted workout advice. It means nada. Does a 300 rep score give me a phd?

And then theres guys who just started lifting who are posting up info that they just read at t-nation thinking that its legit and coming over here. Andalite Im sorry but Im referring to you.

I just find it funny that your doing periodization with rippetoe. Ive seen your wieghts and your build and you dont need periodization. Im lifting the exact same wieght as you in most lifts. And I just started.

Remember this is a bbing site one thing that bbers say over and over is that you gotta find out what works best for you!



For some it may take 3 months others it may take 3 years or even 5+.

also some of the info is conflicting in the stickies. one workout says use 10-12 reps if your a begginer and then everyone saying use rippetoe where the reps are 5. And then theres the pyramid workout aswell 8, 6, 4, 2.

You can neg me if you want guys, but this is what could be improved.

You make some good points.

True, the rep system is a bit misleading because of the misc section.

I disagree that folks need to show pics to support thier knowledge. Mark Rippetoe is not huge but knows a lot of about strength training. None of us (that I know of) are Rippetoe/5x5 "Nazis." I think many of us just believe in those programs and we recomend them because we are trying to help others. What shoudl we do, recomend something we do not believe works?

I agree, to each his or her own. Everyone should find and then do what works for themselves.

[paycheck]

Am I offering advice no, and I already explained in the wwe forum y the reps are stupid. I got repped for asking a question. And again Im not asking for a rep, and Im not giving advice. so how am I an example of how the rep system is flawed.

What I mean from the build statement is that how do I know your not a skinny toothpick coming in here after reading up and posting stuff. Plus a physique tells 2 things 1) the person has dedication 2) the person has knowlege of what hes talking about. A build does go a long way.

A friend of mine took me over to ironage.us a board of guys who have been lifting for a while, some use splits, some use fullbody, but their words hold value because of the single fact that they have been lifting for a while and have posted thier pics.

And yeah Im gonna go to ronnie for advice, because of the first two. Not the magazine crap, but if I had met him 1 on 1 I would take what he has to say in consideration. And that would hold more wieght than what someone posted at this site, whom Ive never seen before. Ronnie worked his ass off to get where he is, yeah juice helps recovery, but the doesnt take away from the fact that he has termendous strength and size.

It may not mean hes the best, or a person with an awesome build is the best, but it lends value to what he has to say.

Are you gonna take mechanic advice from a guy who spent his weekends partying, had life and his gf come in the way, or the guy whose out there day in and day out fixing cars, learning about the new stuff out there, and constantly dedicating himself to his craft?


You asked for advice so why are you so defensive? that is what I meant when I said people need to word things better. And if you cant be prepared to accept the answer dont ask the question.

[latrell]

Originally Posted by paycheck

Am I offering advice no, and I already explained in the wwe forum y the reps are stupid. I got repped for asking a question. And again Im not asking for a rep, and Im not giving advice. so how am I an example of how the rep system is flawed.

What I mean from the build statement is that how do I know your not a skinny toothpick coming in here after reading up and posting stuff. Plus a physique tells 2 things 1) the person has dedication 2) the person has knowlege of what hes talking about. A build does go a long way.

A friend of mine took me over to ironage.us a board of guys who have been lifting for a while, some use splits, some use fullbody, but their words hold value because of the single fact that they have been lifting for a while and have posted thier pics.

And yeah Im gonna go to ronnie for advice, because of the first two. Not the magazine crap, but if I had met him 1 on 1 I would take what he has to say in consideration. And that would hold more wieght than what someone posted at this site, whom Ive never seen before. Ronnie worked his ass off to get where he is, yeah juice helps recovery, but the doesnt take away from the fact that he has termendous strength and size.

It may not mean hes the best, or a person with an awesome build is the best, but it lends value to what he has to say.

Are you gonna take mechanic advice from a guy who spent his weekends partying, had life and his gf come in the way, or the guy whose out there day in and day out fixing cars, learning about the new stuff out there, and constantly dedicating himself to his craft?


You asked for advice so why are you so defensive? that is what I meant when I said people need to word things better. And if you cant be prepared to accept the answer dont ask the question.

I never asked for advice f*&ktard. You don't have to come in here and start **** with me for no reason. Yes I had a great physique, and still have a good one, my first posts have my pictures in them. At first yes I was kidding about the rep system, hence the wink sign, but now i'm not. You said the rep system is a flaw, and you're not an example of it being a flaw, but you know what you actually are. You admitingly just said all your reps came from asking a question in the WWE section, which you know what, shows that you proved yourself wrong, and proved to all of us that the way you got reps is 'flaw'.

Most of the time when someone has a lot of reps it means they have been helpful, i'm sure i've been a lot more helpful than you considering I have a few stickies, but all you did was ask a question and you have more reps than me...???

All I did was ask if you are getting the help you want from this section and you had to start **** with me, if you want to do that, do it in my face, I'll PM you my address if you want.

[latrell]

here ya go you can find my picture here:

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=664716

[Dan_Grr]

Several lifters out there oulift Ronnie Coleman. And they're smaller than him. Where would you go? To an outstanding and genetically superior guy with strong drug support that can lift some heavy weigths, or to stronger but smaller guys that can lift crazy heavy, and probably started out with average genetics, meaning that eventually had to work much harder to get where they are?

Of all the lifting routines out there, the only one Im against is Westside, a routine primarily used by beasts on gear and handed out to the public, me and you. Of course, a lot of experts and other big time reppers will come here refute this argument stating that their way is the only sensible way of training, and employing fancy words and arguments.

[paycheck]

Im not starting ****, you asked for suggestions, thats what I offered.

I didnt help anyone in the wwe forum, just made some cool posts about recent events. Again I dont care how many reps I have, whose repped me, and I dont go asking for reps. Its just little green thing as far as Im concerned.

I listed those names since everyone holds them in high regard. But for all I know, since Ive never seen them, they could be guys who never lifted. Its easy for anyone to come in here and start spewing stuff, and if it looks good people will hold it in high regard.

Im not attacking any of them. I mean come on your gonna tell me if you saw a guy in the gym whose built, that your not gonna take what he has to say in consideration?

Now ripstone is a guy I hold in high regard, being that I've followed his journal and I've seen his pics. He definetly knows what hes talking about. KEthnabb is another. A build, a video, etc lend credibility to the poster.

Like I mentioned knowing that the guy lifts and has a good build adds value to the advice given. NO you dont need to look like Coleman, but knowing that your a lifter offering advice, instead of a guy who just read up on brawn and summarizing it and dont lift doesnt not hold value. Again I never said it was necessary, just that it adds credibility to what they have to say.

Its just human nature to ask for proof. I mean its like dave tate says, a lot of coaches offer workout programs that they've never done. Tate on the other hand does what he advises. And he can tell you the pros and the cons of the program. Sometimes if it looks good on paper doesnt mean it will transfer over. Just to make it clear Im not attacking rippetoe here.

And knowing/seeing that the poster has paid his dues and can tell you his mistakes and what hes learned goes along way.

I'm seriously doubting your comprehension skills since I've made 2 posts tonight and you've attacked both for no reason. In other one I asked for studies on fullbody vs split, to learn more why one was better and if there was a significant difference in growth. I didnt mention anything about one being better than the next. But yet you posted without reading what I had asked.

Again Im not asking for advice, Im not attacking, all Im doing is offering suggetions.

Again You made the thread asking for suggestions, and if this forum is helping. Yes it is, but there are some things that can be improved.

[C Hall]

I've been learning about bodybuilding for 3 years, and it's gotten to the point where I know just about everything.

However, every now and then, I pick up a useful tip at this section or at other sections.

[VikingMan]

Originally Posted by Dan_Grr

Of all the lifting routines out there, the only one Im against is Westside, a routine primarily used by beasts on gear and handed out to the public, me and you. Of course, a lot of experts and other big time reppers will come here refute this argument stating that their way is the only sensible way of training, and employing fancy words and arguments.

Out of curiosity, what logical reason do you have to be against Westside?

The argument that the strongest drug using power lifters in the world use it is not enough to be even remotely convincing. Especially when you've got guys like Iron Addict who train MANY natural trainees who do quite well on it. And guys like Kethnaab who have trained that way for a long time (and he's got some nasty legs). If you head over to the journal section, you'll find several journals of guys doing Westside, some of which are natural, and totally ripped and freaking strong as hell (i.e. spytech).

[Andrew.Cook]

No, in a rather round about way, I agree with Paycheck. The proof is in the pudding. Either you are a big guy, who has put his own program to the test and proved its worth by growing like a freak of nature... or you are a smart guy who has trained many clients to success. In either case you should have pictures to show your handy work. Hey, for my money, pictures are a necessity in this day and age. It isn't like it takes time, skill or money to grab a digital pic and post it. I don't care if you are skinny, flabby, so pale that you can see your internal organs (as is often my case)... you should be taking pics if for no other reason than to document your own progress. It is an awesome tool, and people should be using it extensively. The camera doesn't lie!

If you are a trainer, you should be doing your clients the courtesy of tracking their progress in this same way.

That being said, I'm not sure what the rest of this argument is about. This idea that you have to do splits, or that people who have been lifting a long time do splits... bah. I've been lifting for almost 16 years now and I'm doing full body work. Have I done splits in the past? Yes. Will I do them again? Maybe. Probably never go with a one body part a day split ever again. It isn't ideal as far as I'm concerned. Do I care if you do a three day split? two day? Full body? HIT? 5x5? no... I suggest 5x5 to new guys, but I'm not on it. I also like 2 day splits (or push/pull, upper/lower), but I'm not on that either. And, in fact, of all the names you listed
1.) kethnaab
2.) dominik
3.) All Pro
4.) TheCore
5.) Serpens Aeon
6.) RipStone
7.) LiquidTension
8.) IRonaddict

I don't know any of these guys to be "nazi" about anything. The only thing I've seen as a common thread to all of these men is that they all take issue with the statement "HIT is the only thing that works..." other than that I'm guessing that you might see that their workouts and personalities are all quite different. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that you just listed a combined experience that climbs well over 100 years total. While I don't always agree with these men, I certainly always listen. Why? Because I have experience with them. I believe them all to be honestly invested in the realm of lifting. I believe them to be of honest intention. I believe them to be wise and open minded. Nazis? No... not at all. I would probably refrain from attacking good people. But that is just me.

I would like to think that everyone here does their best to help others. If the help you are asking for doesn't match the info that you want... I can't help you. It is a truth that not everyone that asks for help wants help. Often they just want to hear that they are right. But that isn't what you are likely to get from this gang. Think you have a better source of info? I would run like hell to it and try to absorb all I could. I would simply caution against trying to discredit those who don't agree with you.

[VikingMan]

Originally Posted by Andrew.Cook

Either you are a big guy, who has put his own program to the test and proved its worth by growing like a freak of nature... or you are a smart guy who has trained many clients to success. In either case you should have pictures to show your handy work.

If that's the criteria for credebility, then IA has more credebility than most, just check out his forum. **** load of big guys with journals and pics, many of which he trains, all of which think he REALLY knows his stuff.

[paycheck]

When I posted about splits I meant that different strokes from different folks. Some people work better off with splits, and yeah there are many ways to do a split. I mean before I came here I didnt know anyone who used fullbody. Im not just referring to people who were in mags, I mean guys in the gym who were built. A couple of uncles of mine who would visit from england, natural, used split and they were built. So their advice had merit because of their build.

I myself use a fullbody sort of like bastard child of rippetoe with 8-12 reps. I like squatting more than twice a week, since I repond better to squatting 3x week. I cant bench more than twice a week, respond better to once a week for the bench. I tried rippetoe than realized I had to modify it to suit me.

Im not saying one is better than the other. But a person has to find out for themselves.

I didnt mean to imply that the names on that list are fullbody nazis, the list came from a thread. Its just a lot of people on this board keeping posting up the same workout. I actually find it funny that this workout came from a thread about a phone call. Its just funny. Not dissing it, I just find it funny. People have posted up the book, which is exactly what people should be doing. Posting up stuff to back up why the workouts are good. All Im saying is that people shouldnt take what others say on face value do some research.

And by posting up here Im not trying to start a split vs fullbody war. All Im saying is different things work for some. I myself intend on going on a split in 2 weeks to see what I responded to better.

People on this board shouldnt be hold down to one work out. Do some research and learn for yourself what you respond to. I do agree that some info is not what people want to hear. The doctor syndrome, if one doesnt tell you what you want to hear you go to another. At the end of the day, however, you have to find out what the person said is true. And a person with credentials is less likely to be second guessed.The only thing that isnt gonna be second guessed is that no matter what you gotta lift heavy.

And for the record, Im a newb who is still learning, so Im not qualified to offer any advice. Still learning.

[VikingMan]

Originally Posted by paycheck

Its just a lot of people on this board keeping posting up the same workout. I actually find it funny that this workout came from a thread about a phone call. Its just funny. Not dissing it, I just find it funny. People have posted up the book, which is exactly what people should be doing. Posting up stuff to back up why the workouts are good. All Im saying is that people shouldnt take what others say on face value do some research.

I would say that the reason certain programs get recommended on a consistent basis is that, number one, they work, and number two, they happen to fit where MOST trainees get stuck.

MOST trainees start on body part splits. You mentioned that many people you know use splits and are "built". I guarantee you though, that there are more people who use splits that are not built than are(think, tons of 16 year olds doing endless barbell curls in pursuit of bigger arms that aren't getting anywhere).

The main reason for this is what most people do with splits. They generally contain way to many exercises, have to much focus on size with not enough focus on increasing lifts(strength) on core movements, bench, squats, deads, rows, militaries. This results in guys coming on these boards posting things like, "Please critique my split"... The reason they do this is because they're looking for a way to get past the spot where they are stuck. They're stuck because they're just past the newb gains, at a late beginner, early intermediate level. At that level of lifting, good training structure is necessary to continue advancing. The reason 5X5 gets recommended so often is because it contains the kind of structure and proper stimulation to get guys over the hump, and on to the next level. A split could do the same thing, if it were setup correctly. The reason 5X5 is a good recommendation at that point is because split guys SHOULD know that there are other training paradigms out there. It's a great snapshot in time to begin understanding more advanced lifting concepts like periodization, and a good door way to the kind of stuff that is going to get guys near their genetic potential.

Originally Posted by paycheck

Do some research and learn for yourself what you respond to.

This is good advice. I would put one caveat on it though. Experiential knowledge is better than "I read it on a forum" knowledge. And if you're current program isn't given you additional capabilities, i.e., I'm measurably stronger and bigger this month, than I was two months ago, then you need to do something different than the split you've been doing since you were 16 that hasn't given you any gains in the last 2 years (a scenario I hear more often than you might think). Hence the recommendations of Rippetoe, 5X5, Westside, upper/lower splits, and a few others.

[JoeyTS]

Originally Posted by Dan_Grr

....Of all the lifting routines out there, the only one Im against is Westside, a routine primarily used by beasts on gear and handed out to the public, me and you....

Wow, you have to be kidding? Westside is one of the best programs in practice (many people have enjoyed great success). In addition, it is awesome in theory; weekly focus on each of fast twitch lower and upper body, and max effort fiber recruitment, plus a lot of dynamic change to keep it fresh.

To each his own, but you really should read more on Westside and try it some time when you are ready. I am seriously trying to help you to not miss out on an excellent program, not flaming you here.

[latrell]

want some more people to vote!

[wh0died]

Originally Posted by VikingMan

If that's the criteria for credebility, then IA has more credebility than most, just check out his forum. **** load of big guys with journals and pics, many of which he trains, all of which think he REALLY knows his stuff.

Well, IA does have more credibility than most.

[Bignbuff]

It seems like some regulars have this section under control from what I've seen.

It has always been that way in here from my experience on the forums. Back about 2 years ago, two members (Sychokid and BRIT_BEEF) and myself, pretty much replied to every thread in here. Then both of them left and I became a mod, and a new generation came in.

These days I'm so busy with moderating the other sections of the board that are more problematic, that I don't have as much time to spend in here anymore.

[Lencho]

Originally Posted by latrell

I know 50x more about bodybuilding, nutrition, supplements, proper training, and injury prevention that i knew then.

50 x ZERO is still ZERO, brah.