Heavy lifting (Max-OT) while cutting… help I am stuck :-(

[kid-a]

I have been lifting heavy for the past year (3 sets per exercise with 4-6 reps per set) and I have been stack at 180 lbs and about 20% body fat.

My goal is to lose fat and get down to low teens, while maintaining the little muscle I have, and as I said, I have been stuck for about a year. My calories are always about a 2000-2200, and for about one day per week a might go to 2600-2800 as a cheat day.
I am doing 3 to 4 moderate 35 min running sessions per week and I lift every other day.

Today I was talking to a personal trainer at a GNC store and he told me that I should stop lifting heavy and go with 15 to 25 reps per exercise. His theory is that if you lift heavy you are breaking down muscle, and because you are getting less calories than maintenance you can not repair the muscle back. He thinks that this is the primary reason that I am stuck.
So by going to a high rep lower weight workout, even thought you are not breaking down muscle, you are still sending the message to your body that you still need the muscle, and your body should burn fat to make up for the caloric deficit. Even though 25 may sound to many reps, I still think his theory has some merit, and I am thinking of starting to do full body work-outs with 3 sets per exercise and 15 reps per set. Please let me know what you think.

Thanks in advance,

Kid-A

[grabinthamic]

what do you guys think? im also interested

[new2lifting]

pretty common question on the board...asked a million times

cutting has nothing to do with your workouts, you should never change your workouts when cutting

lift low reps, heavy weight 6-10 rep range with the occasional 3-5 reps with heavy weight...this is most optimum for growing muscle and maintaining your muscle while cutting

diet has everything to do with cutting and will determine your BF%

[smackdaddyD]

I have been lifting heavy for the past year (3 sets per exercise with 4-6 reps per set) and I have been stack at 180 lbs and about 20% body fat.

My goal is to lose fat and get down to low teens, while maintaining the little muscle I have, and as I said, I have been stuck for about a year. My calories are always about a 2000-2200, and for about one day per week a might go to 2600-2800 as a cheat day.
I am doing 3 to 4 moderate 35 min running sessions per week and I lift every other day.

Today I was talking to a personal trainer at a GNC store and he told me that I should stop lifting heavy and go with 15 to 25 reps per exercise. His theory is that if you lift heavy you are breaking down muscle, and because you are getting less calories than maintenance you can not repair the muscle back. He thinks that this is the primary reason that I am stuck.
So by going to a high rep lower weight workout, even thought you are not breaking down muscle, you are still sending the message to your body that you still need the muscle, and your body should burn fat to make up for the caloric deficit. Even though 25 may sound to many reps, I still think his theory has some merit, and I am thinking of starting to do full body work-outs with 3 sets per exercise and 15 reps per set. Please let me know what you think.

I think you should never listen to somebody who works, shops, or even visits GNC. That's the worst load of uninformed crap I've heard in a while.

Here's what's really going on. You've been working out for a year with almost no deviation in your workout. You've hit a plateau. You need to change your workout around, that much he was correct about.

If I were you, I would start lifting 4-5 days per week, with a split instead of doing full-body. Full-body workouts are great for beginners who don't know what they're doing and need to build mass. However, it's pretty clear your body has adapted to your current routine, and so you need to change the workload. I would suggest doing higher reps, but any more than a target of 10 per set is somewhat pointless. Try 3x10, making sure to fail on your last set, doing a wider variety of exercises, giving your body more rest by using a split.

I would also go one way or the other with the cardio (preferably both), and go with 20 min of HIIT or 60 min of medium intensity (60-70% MHR). You're definitely not doing much cardio for somebody who wants to lose fat.

Lastly, I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt on the diet, because I don't feel like getting into it, but there are two things I want to stress: Post-workout nutrition and intake of EFAs. If you're not getting a whey shake after your workout, you're seriously limiting your muscular growth.

[new2lifting]

I think you should never listen to somebody who works, shops, or even visits GNC. That's the worst load of uninformed crap I've heard in a while.

Here's what's really going on. You've been working out for a year with almost no deviation in your workout. You've hit a plateau. You need to change your workout around, that much he was correct about.

If I were you, I would start lifting 4-5 days per week, with a split instead of doing full-body. Full-body workouts are great for beginners who don't know what they're doing and need to build mass. However, it's pretty clear your body has adapted to your current routine, and so you need to change the workload. I would suggest doing higher reps, but any more than a target of 10 per set is somewhat pointless. Try 3x10, making sure to fail on your last set, doing a wider variety of exercises, giving your body more rest by using a split.

I would also go one way or the other with the cardio (preferably both), and go with 20 min of HIIT or 60 min of medium intensity (60-70% MHR). You're definitely not doing much cardio for somebody who wants to lose fat.

Lastly, I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt on the diet, because I don't feel like getting into it, but there are two things I want to stress: Post-workout nutrition and intake of EFAs. If you're not getting a whey shake after your workout, you're seriously limiting your muscular growth.

Full body workouts can be effective and efficient, if designed right

I myself prefer splitting up the bodyparts

bottom line, if he is still 20+% after a year, his diet is screwed up not his workout...although, until I see his workout, I can't say for sure if his workouts suck or not

[kid-a]

Thanks everybody for all the help.
Smackddady, sorry if I was not clear (English is not my first language), but I have been doing the split, and now I am thinking of going with full body workouts. Also, I do take a whey shake post workout and multivitamin and fish oil everyday. I think your cardio suggestion makes a lot of sense and I am going to try to fit a HIIT session per week and a couple 60 min medium intensity cardio sessions. The other way to go I guess will be to drop my calories a little more. So you guys think that the theory of your body not being able to repair the muscle breakdown, when you are all the time at a daily caloric deficit of about 500 cals is completely false?

Thanks again,
Kid-A

[smackdaddyD]

The other way to go I guess will be to drop my calories a little more. So you guys think that the theory of your body not being able to repair the muscle breakdown, when you are all the time at a daily caloric deficit of about 500 cals is completely false?

If you're getting enough protein, especially PWO, your muscles will be able to repair.

If they weren't able to repair themselves, you'd have symptoms of overtraining...injuries, exaggerated and prolonged soreness, lethargy, etc.

[bob.roher]

I'm curious about how you're arriving at your bodyfat percentage. According to your sig, you lost 21 pounds of muscle between 2004 and 2005...are you sure you either didn't underestimate your original bodyfat or overestimate your current bodyfat?

If you do honestly have 20% bodyfat right now, you can lower your calories to 1900 (well 1863, but I rounded up for convenience) as long as you're getting enough protein. The above suggestions for changing up your workouts are also solid.

Read through this when you have the opportunity:
http://www.mindandmuscle.net/mindandmuscle/

[DJohnson]

I'm a huge fan of MAX-OT. All my experiments with higher reps during cutting have resulted in muscle loss. I will never do anything but low reps during cutting because it works the best for me.

Bulking on the other hand I plan on raising the reps to see how that works.

Your problem is that you've been cutitng for a year and you're not very overweight anymore. Throw in a bulk for 12 weeks and then cut again. Your metabolism will be going a lot faster.

[kid-a]

Thanks for all the advice, everybody has made some great points. I just wanted to assure myself that what is more important for muscle recovery is not the total number of calories but rather the amount of protein you take.

Bob.roher it is very possible that I have underestimated my starting body fat but not by a lot. Maybe the ratio of fat loss per muscle loss was not 1/1, but I think I lost at least a pound of muscle for every 2 pounds of fat I lost in the 2004-2005 period. I am very positive though that I have stayed at around 20% for about a year now.
The document about “Determining the Maximum Dietary Deficit for Fat Loss” on the mind and muscle website by Lyle McDonald makes a lot of sense. After reading this, I think that most likely what has happen to me is that my metabolism has been adapted to my caloric intake. Taking into consideration my once per week cheat day, my average per day caloric intake is about 2300. If my metabolism after two years of dieting has dropped to a maintenance level of about 2400 cals per day, this will only leave me with about 100 cals of deficit, which I guess is very little to see any results. It really sucks to be 180 lbs and have a maintenance level of 2400 cals…but I always had a very slow metabolism, and most likely after 2 years of dieting it is now even slower.

So it seems that there are two possible ways I can go; drop calories even further and increase my cardio so I can create at least a 500 deficit to my new maintenance level, or go to a clean bulking phase so I can increase my lean body mass and raise my metabolism. The problem is that with 20% body fat I still feel and look overweight, and I can not persuade myself to go to a bulking phase. If Lyle McDonald is right, I can probably drop to about 1900 cals per day without risking any muscle loss, then after losing about 10 more lbs of fat, I will go for a clean bulk. Hopefully by that time I will not screw up my metabolism to the point of no return.

Thanks again for all the advice, it is greatly appreciated.

Kid-A.

[smackdaddyD]

The thing is, when you bulk correctly, you end up looking better even though you're heavier.

See, the quality of your "look" is based on your BF%, not your weight. That's why it's not good to lose a pound of muscle for every pound of fat...that's a lot of muscle to lose. You end up looking smaller, but not fitter.

I've gone from 268 to 260 in about 10 weeks, but I'm looking like 240 because of how muscular I've gotten (I used to have a lot of muscle mass, and I add muscle very easily). I'm still what I consider fat, but I look 10x better than before, even though I'm only 8 pounds lighter. In a year I expect to be sub 15% body fat at around 230-240. Within two years my goal is to have a six-pack, be able to dunk a basketball, and do 10 pullups (have never had or done any of those).

[AphtaLyfe]

Full body is not the way to go. Keep with the split, change up the exercises.

Cardio should be done 30-40min, 4-5 days a week.

Since you're at 20% body fat... you can do pretty much any calorie deficit and not lose too much muscle. http://www.mindandmuscle.net/mindand...D=35&pageNum=1

I recommend cutting. Do the cardio like I said, keep with a good lifting split and keep calories at a 500 deficit. (or more)

-Good Luck