Nitric Oxide A Scam

[T-mac]

Good information, but I have a feeling it's just a supplement advertisement for Surge in disguise.


But if people have to take products "that don't work" to experience a placebo effect that they wouldn't get without the product, then I guess it's still worth it in some regard. Let them be.

Yea those ppl are they ppl who dont train and diet hard and want a quick fix to get some gains going. i admit i was one of those ppl when i was a noob but People should treat real foods like they treat supplements. i treat my tuna likes its the most anabolic substance out there and i am always in that frame of mind and thats why i keep gaining. food should always be #1 not sum silly supplement u aint gaining. eat more!!! (healthy food that is) and only supp u might need is a protien shake and thats about it dont look for sum quick fix supp

[Khryz]

Yup that's definately him. If a routine/program/diet/supplement doesn't show gains in 2 weeks he's on to the next one. I allowed him to diet with me this spring and he lost over 30 pounds and was lean at around 12%. After we both kinda stalled for a few weeks he had enough and got some "advice" from his friend who has good genetics, told him basically diets don't really matter so my roomate got off the diet and went back to basically a normal healthy diet (but healthy doesn't get your a 6-pack) and he gained about 8 pounds back in stomach fat since then. Me? I found out my problems and am now continuing to lose BF while he attempts to find the next ground breaking supplement.

This friend of his told him that doing slow reps was going to make him burn fat. When I heard that, and how excited he was to hear that I had enough with trying to explain anything to him. He was so good at listening to me while something was working, then when it stops - talking to a wall. I just can't wait to come back and see him a few weeks all lean and see how those "slow reps" have made him so ripped! And when he asks me what I did I'll say ... "the same thing I was doing with you - should've kept with me!"

Anyway, sorry to hijack. Lol.

[T-mac]

^^^^

lol you can lead a horse to water but u cant make it drink it

[Lifter X]

ive beeen usin it 4 2weeks and it seems like its working

so basically what ur tryin to say is stop using it?

theres no science backing it up is what the article is trying to say and that ur feeling the placebo effect

[TheHybrid]

For ever NO study you pump out that says it doesn't work, I can pump out one saying it does work.

Try it, if you like it and feel it works - USE IT.

There are so many contradicting studies out there, that one isn't the end all.

[Dalamara]

For ever NO study you pump out that says it doesn't work, I can pump out one saying it does work.

Try it, if you like it and feel it works - USE IT.

There are so many contradicting studies out there, that one isn't the end all.

If there's a study that says NO doesn't work for every study that says it does work that's saying a lot right there.

There's probably 1000 studys that say protein and creatine work to every study that say they don't.

So to me NO looks pretty fishy.

[TheHybrid]

If there's a study that says NO doesn't work for every study that says it does work that's saying a lot right there.

There's probably 1000 studys that say protein and creatine work to every study that say they don't.

So to me NO looks pretty fishy.

Excess protein? Infact there are very few studies that show that excess protein increase protein synthesis. But for sure, without protein you couldn't build muscle.... so I guess if you're just saying some protein, you would be correct.

As for creatine, the safe and effectives studies outweight the negatives, but I wouldn't say it's a large gap.

All new products will have as many negative as positive studies (well, most all). For instance, look at BCAA/EAA. Many studies show that supplementing, and even mega-dosing these have no more effect than a normal high protein diet, yet many people swear by it. I believe that supplemetnts such as Xtend do aid in my recovery, even though I've read countless studies that say it won't.

Unless you find a product that has OVERWHELMING negative studies (good studies too.... many studies have huge flaws, are very biased, and distort data) and very few positive reviews, don't try it. It's worth one shot if it isn't too expensive. Review it yourself subjectively, and if you think it helps, continue using it. Science gives us so many conflicting views it's mind boggling as we haven't mastered our own bodies yet.

[OmniPotentTitan]

look at who the studies are done by, how they are done, whom the subjects are, etc.

then look at the science and dont just read someone elses interpretation of the science and spread it as fact.

[T-mac]

For ever NO study you pump out that says it doesn't work, I can pump out one saying it does work.

Try it, if you like it and feel it works - USE IT.

There are so many contradicting studies out there, that one isn't the end all.

if ure going to say that show an rebuttle article and where are the studies that says it works ????


i took into consideration what u said and spent the last 20 min actually being bothered to find something good. all i found was articles and studys sayin it was bad but yes your right it DOES work but only in really high dosages which in turn is detrimental to your HEART. so at the cost of your heart, is this supplement really worth it for gains that are not THAT amazing. but if u prove me wrong ill shut up

[TheHybrid]

if ure going to say that show an rebuttle article and where are the studies that says it works ????

Here. Layne wrote an article referencing several studies: http://www.physiquescience.com/index...d=19&Itemid=43

EDIT: If you REALLY want me to pull more, i'll start digging. However, I am lazy and this is the first one that came to mind.

[T-mac]

id buy that but the article but the article is only bb.com so its kinda in their best interests to have it im just gettin the university of texas study that he talks about now ill read that and decide but your right we could probably argue about this for weeks and im feeling lazy too. but i still dont buy the whole NO thing though i used it and its not that good but i not see any noticable diffrences that wat i get now not using it

it could work or it couldnt guess we wont know unless we have our debate if u want to rebuttle ill make an effort to reply so we can find out the truth lol

[biggins exxy]

sorry im new, but baisically yall are sayin arginine is worthless? ive heard just the opposite from a lot of people. just tryin to learn somethin.....

[Lifter X]

sorry im new, but baisically yall are sayin arginine is worthless? ive heard just the opposite from a lot of people. just tryin to learn somethin.....

theres just no scinece behind it working

[One Man Army]

you bastard..now my placebo effect is gone..I now know it doesnt really work

no but seriously good find threadstarter...Id rep ya..but I aint gonna help much


thats why I have bad stomcah aches and bad crap spells..this does explain it seriously..its the NOS which I am currently taking

[Pyro_Orip]

...

So, how many people here believe that supplementation with crap like this was included in our genetic plans at birth as a way to survive? XP

Keep it simple, natural, and balanced. Don't be idiots. For every one of you that thinks he's going to go beef-supplement with all of these products, you may want to have them lab tested. Then, once you see the "draw" they have to them chemically, study the workings of the human body. Read up and learn about the balances we have to keep in order to survive healthily.

No one in their right mind would ever buy another damn bucket of the **** they do if they realized they were blind little sheep slaves to begin with. heh

Educate yourselves. While you're at it, look into the acidic/Alkalin pH tightrope you have to walk to stay healthy, and then look at some charts and your diet. 90% of you have Acidosis, and it's the prime factor in allowing bad bacteria and diseases to den up in your body.

[Xc]

While readers may be aware of the inherent risks of creatine wannabes from our Consumer Report on Dangerous Creatine, recent evidence demonstrates how nitric oxide stimulators can be considered the greatest con since ENRON.

Thats where i stopped reading at

[WCC]

Lifter X, i've repped you. too bad i hadn't seen this before i went ahead and bought 2 bottles of that crap. i didn't get any gains from it; not even placebo gains. i felt exactly the same.
anyway, i read the article. very interesting. i hope everyone gets to read this.

too bad there are thousands of people who have used it and disagree so stfu

you're an idiot. how about you STFU.

the guy's gone out of his way to find out this info for us. it's extremely overhyped - look at the claims BSN make about their Nitrix. the effects claimed by BSN couldn't even be had from steroid use.
i'm just annoyed this wasn't posted in January, when i bought the damn stuff. 2 bottles, 65 quid. no effects. the strength gains i got while on it were the same as the strength gains i'm getting now.
how about you STFU smartass and stop trying to pick fights with people. why don't you look for an informative article to help us all instead of criticizing people who do.

If there's a study that says NO doesn't work for every study that says it does work that's saying a lot right there.

There's probably 1000 studys that say protein and creatine work to every study that say they don't.

So to me NO looks pretty fishy.

yeah, well it's logical that protein works. protein is the stuff muscles are made of. if you lift big and eat loads of steaks, you'll get big. if you lift big and eat hardly any protein, you won't. saying 'protein doesn't work' is stupid, as eating high-protein diets will make you bigger.

as for creatine, there are 'non-responders' - people whose muscles are already saturated in the stuff naturally, so supplementing with creatine will do them no good as their muscles can't absorb any more. but these non-responders are a minority.

scams die out after a while anyway - creatine and protein have been around for years and they're by far the most popular supplements - this is because they work and they aren't scams. i had noticeable gains from both, and now, as i'm not on them, i'm not getting the same gains i got while i was on them - i went up 2lbs in one of the weeks i was taking it.
liquid creatine was popular for a while, but no-one buys it anymore because no-one's experienced effects from it. liquid creatine is a scam.
and it's likely that NO supplements will lose popularity too; lots of people report diarrhoea, vomiting and weakness, which are all signs of arginine toxicity. others (like me) don't gain anything from NO supplementation, and the people who do (or seem to) probably just do because they have a good workout routine. i believed the stuff worked because i put on 10lbs of muscle and 30lbs onto my bench press, but i'm already making gains at the same rate now, and all i'm on is fish oil (finished the Tribulus yesterday - it wasn't having any more effect on my sex drive, so i stopped and gave the rest to my stepdad).

[WCC]

thats why I have bad stomcah aches and bad crap spells..this does explain it seriously..its the NOS which I am currently taking

LOL, taking NOS.
bad crap spells? i'd imagine so - you farting blue flames too?

it's arginine toxicity - i did some reasearch a while back on the RDA of amino acids. there was no RDA for arginine (as it's not an essential amino), but i did read that 2000mg was the 'safe' amount.
1 serving (3 pills) of BSN Nitrix contains 3000mg.
most people take 3 servings per day (9 pills total); i took 2 servings but made each serving 4 pills (8 pills total).
so if 1 serving (3 pills) contains 3000mg, 1 pill contains 1000mg. and if you're taking 3 servings (9 pills) daily, you're getting 9000mg arginine daily. that's over 4 times the safe amount.
symptoms of arginine toxicity include vomiting, diarrhoea and weakness. so yes, it was probably the excessive arginine consumption.

[WCC]

Thats where i stopped reading at

really? you sir, have the concentration span of a gnat. goodbye.

[PAmos wannabe]

I can't believe i wasted £30 on a CEE/NO precursor product - it's done bugger-all for me, hence i will not be buying it again, nor any other supplement.

[WCC]

I can't believe i wasted £30 on a CEE/NO precursor product - it's done bugger-all for me, hence i will not be buying it again, nor any other supplement.

CEE and NO did nothing for you so you're not buying supplements again?
NO's a scam, but not all supplements are scams. maybe there wasn't enough CEE in your product to give you gains. try SNS Creatine E2 or Kre Alkalyn if you want a good creatine product. and you can't omit protein. you should definately take protein shakes if you're serious about building mass.

[PAmos wannabe]

CEE and NO did nothing for you so you're not buying supplements again?
NO's a scam, but not all supplements are scams. maybe there wasn't enough CEE in your product to give you gains. try SNS Creatine E2 or Kre Alkalyn if you want a good creatine product. and you can't omit protein. you should definately take protein shakes if you're serious about building mass.

Well... firstly, you don't NEED protein shakes to build mass, you just need correct nutrition. Besides, i don't regard protein as a "supplement". The reason is that i can't be bothered with creatine or any other supplement because of the little return they give on the money spent - i'd rather buy more food (sounds like a cliche bit it's true).

[Pyro_Orip]

I can't believe i wasted £30 on a CEE/NO precursor product - it's done bugger-all for me, hence i will not be buying it again, nor any other supplement.

Good. Very nice choice. Make sure to get a balanced diet. You'll make a ton more gains on a moderate protein diet than a high protein diet that's tipping the balance when it comes to nutrients.

Oh, and feel free to use Whey Protein supplements still. They're safe, they work, and if it's ONLY whey protein formula without anything funky, it's also good for your body for other reasons. It works to counteract the acidic overload you have in terms of food waste, and so you'll feel better, get your nutrients in, and take a load off of your kidneys and liver. : )

Creatine should be more or less safe as well. Of course, getting a normal diet you'll be getting more than enough "creatine" in when your body produces it for its own benefit...but if you feel you have to have it, I don't think you'll see any noticable side effects.

Don't worry about vitamins. Get fruits and vegies in. Eat correctly, and get animal fats, and you'll have your vitamins by the truck load. Companies marketing and supporting the marketing of supplements that earn a ton of money each day tend to...exagerate about the needs of vitamins. Simply eating a good diet gets them in. No one ever had to supplement for vitamins to be healthy...ever...unless of course they were smokers or alcoholics. If you are, you'll definitely need to supplement, as both of those drain you of vitamins. Same with prescription medications ("drugs"). Just make sure the vitamins are all natural and non-synthetic.
...or just stop smoking/drinking... : P

[Pyro_Orip]

Well... firstly, you don't NEED protein shakes to build mass, you just need correct nutrition. Besides, i don't regard protein as a "supplement". The reason is that i can't be bothered with creatine or any other supplement because of the little return they give on the money spent - i'd rather buy more food (sounds like a cliche bit it's true).

Spend the money you would have on supplements on organic cuts of meat and such instead. You won't regret it if you do. You'll feel better, and gain more. 99% of the people here I'm sure overdose on protein daily. No one with a healthy, clean colon and good organs otherwise NEEDS so muc protein in order to build. It's insane. They're eating entire animals in a day's time while me and others make average or above average gains by simply eating correctly...plus, better health. We're much more energetic, we don't have acne, no acidosis or alkalosis, no parasites, increased recovery time, MUCH less pain, etc.

[Lifter X]

Thats where i stopped reading at

if u read that article at t -nation it explains scams of certain compaines putting out potientally dangerous creatine and creatine that dosent actually work

[WCC]

Creatine should be more or less safe as well. Of course, getting a normal diet you'll be getting more than enough "creatine" in when your body produces it for its own benefit...but if you feel you have to have it, I don't think you'll see any noticable side effects.

Don't worry about vitamins. Get fruits and vegies in. Eat correctly, and get animal fats, and you'll have your vitamins by the truck load. Companies marketing and supporting the marketing of supplements that earn a ton of money each day tend to...exagerate about the needs of vitamins. Simply eating a good diet gets them in. No one ever had to supplement for vitamins to be healthy...ever...unless of course they were smokers or alcoholics. If you are, you'll definitely need to supplement, as both of those drain you of vitamins. Same with prescription medications ("drugs"). Just make sure the vitamins are all natural and non-synthetic.
...or just stop smoking/drinking... : P

1) creatine is present in food, but not in sufficient quantities to gain muscle mass with. you have to take supplementary creatine for that.

2) supplementing with vitamins is always a good idea. you'd have to have an insanely complicated diet in order to get enough vitamins and minerals. most of the fruit, veggies and meat is pumped full of hormones in order to make it grow more, so it's not as nutritious and wholesome as you think.
look at a cow reared on a ranch for commercial purposes - look at how big they are.
then look at a cow fed a completely natural diet. cows on natural diets without hormonal supplements are small and skinny. everything's treated for maximum growth these days.

[WCC]

Spend the money you would have on supplements on organic cuts of meat and such instead.

even 'organic' meats aren't as good as they seem.
and taking 100g protein from high quality protein shakes is probably better for you than getting 100g protein from steaks.
you'd have to eat a lot of steak to get 100g protein, and you'd also get lots of fat, especially cholesterol.

[Pyro_Orip]

1) creatine is present in food, but not in sufficient quantities to gain muscle mass with. you have to take supplementary creatine for that.

2) supplementing with vitamins is always a good idea. you'd have to have an insanely complicated diet in order to get enough vitamins and minerals. most of the fruit, veggies and meat is pumped full of hormones in order to make it grow more, so it's not as nutritious and wholesome as you think.
look at a cow reared on a ranch for commercial purposes - look at how big they are.
then look at a cow fed a completely natural diet. cows on natural diets without hormonal supplements are small and skinny. everything's treated for maximum growth these days.

1: Enough creatine in organic, wholesome foods to survive and live happily. If you feel like you need more, then get more, but there's plenty in the foods you eat.

2: Organic fruits and vegies instead of tons of vitamins and supplements is healthier all around. Argue with that...I'd like to see it. : P Our bodies are BUILT to handle LOCAL nutrient amounts. We don't live in a greenhouse. We live in the real world, and our body has adapted well to the real world. For one, wheat contains most of the vitamins we need in sufficient quantities. Simply find a juicer and go at it. Add in organic fruits and vegies, and there's two servings of pure goodness throughout the day. 100% better for you than acidifying **** you buy in a can. I can promise that one.

I don't care what you do, but trying to "get everything you need" is going to kill you...if you're following federal guide lines, that is. Our bodies know what we need, and only by listening to our bodies will we come out with good results. OR...you could go buy a book about popular drugs and their uses and read the small article in the back about how we get 10% of the vitamins and minerals we NEED each day and must "swallow" our way to victory.

News flash. Their guide lines are based on the average, clogged american. Not only that, but they're speaking of maximums, not essentials...and they show no sign of "balance". Seen multivitamins these days?

[Pyro_Orip]

even 'organic' meats aren't as good as they seem.
and taking 100g protein from high quality protein shakes is probably better for you than getting 100g protein from steaks.
you'd have to eat a lot of steak to get 100g protein, and you'd also get lots of fat, especially cholesterol.

Fat and cholesterol is hardly a problem, given you're eating healthily. Don't let the fads trick you.

Small portions of meat each day are healthy amounts. Don't compensate for protein deficiencies by super-loading on meats. Never a good idea. Get other sources as well.

Also, I clearly stated my possitive view on amino acid blends and "whey" (pure whey). Did you read that? : ) It's a good idea to make up for small amounts of protein by drinking/eating whey products and amino products...so long as they're "clean".

EDIT: Ah, and organic meats ARE very, very good for you...in moderation. Too much is always bad for you. Also, it depends very much so on the cut of meat and the animal and what they were fed and how they were raised...etc. : ) There's almost NO good, clean meat around...but normally our body takes care of what we don't need in it. Normally. Now...the people on this message board? Death by meat. XP I've counted maybe 10 people in the history of this board and my coming here that actually eat intelligently. I'm sure the rest are hiding.

[TheHybrid]

even 'organic' meats aren't as good as they seem.
and taking 100g protein from high quality protein shakes is probably better for you than getting 100g protein from steaks.
you'd have to eat a lot of steak to get 100g protein, and you'd also get lots of fat, especially cholesterol.

Yes, who needs real food. Screw those gay ass minerals and vitamins.