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  1. #1
    Registered User JeremyD's Avatar
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    volume vs. HIT for mass.....

    I've asked this question around on a few forums before. I'd just like to get everyones oppinions on the subject and the reasoning behind it.
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  2. #2
    Registered User Sonny's Avatar
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    Both approaches have worked for me, but I find that I plateau alot easier using HIT. Usually after about 3 weeks, I start to feel a little flat from it, but It takes a lot longer when I'm using more volume. I usually use higher volume though because I don't have a spotter to help me go to absolute failure advocated by HITers.

    Try them both and see which one works better for you!
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  3. #3
    Registered User Complete Muscle's Avatar
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    It really isn't fair to ask which one is better. Both have different merits. Why not use every tool available? The picture I have is heavier weight/lower reps is good for pure hypertrophy and strength, where higher volume increases muscle size by increasing the number of blood capillaries and increasing muscle cells' affinity for carbohydrates.

    To be honest I have only used higher weight/low to med reps since I started (2 1/2 ys). I'm ready for a break. I am going to try some type of "cumulative fatigue training" (higher volume, less rest between sets).
    Make time to eat!
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  4. #4
    Registered User Kane Fan's Avatar
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    well as mentioned prviously if you don't have a spotter you can count on HIT is really out of the equation

    I have gotten good gains on volume training
    I havn't been able to try true HIT because I lift alone (nobody else I know is even into it, at all)
    so for me the closest I can get to HIT is abreviated training
    I like Volume training and I get better results from volume then abreviated
    that's me
    I'm not you
    so take that advice for what it's worth
    if you ever find yourself trapped in my body
    do us both a favor and do a lil volume liftin : P
    of course if your in my body hopefuly I'll be in Matt Hardyz....
    and as long as he dosn't wind up in Lita's body....
    hmmm I'm digressing....
    No-Dope-Crew.

    here's something more constructive
    I helped a guy gain 1/4" on his biceps with 1 workout, and it was definatly volume training
    eat that you buncha HIT nazi's
    (also helped Jesin gain 6/10 " and Q gained 1/10th", also DoctorX2k2 gained 1/4")

    -unrelated bicep comment-
    and btw, I can Hammer Curl the 120's dangit!

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  5. #5
    When in doubt PIITB! The Rob's Avatar
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    KaneFan, you're a big red retard just like your hero!





    j\k
    If birds use their pecs to fly........do gargoyles use their traps?


    I went from 95 lbs to 280 RIPPED in 5 weeks eating ONLY eggs, so don't talk to me about hard gainers! (PS: I can deadlift 3 cars and a bus AND I can squat Roseanne)
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  6. #6
    Registered User Sonny's Avatar
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    Actually, Kane Fan brought up a good point in that the average guy lifting weights doesn't know about HIT. Also, any of my friends who lift and who do know about HIT, totally don't believe that such brief forms of training can be beneficial.

    Yeah, tell that to the poor bastard doing 20 rep squats right now!
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  7. #7
    Registered User coreman's Avatar
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    I've got no idea what you people are talking about when you say you MUST have a spotter for HIT. The only exercise I can think of where you would need one is squats. Just get someone to spot for that one set and that's it. Everything else can be done on your own. Use dumbbells...self spot. If you're using forced reps and negatives then you're not training properly. Just use rest-pause if you want an intensity technique.
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  8. #8
    Registered User Lats McGee's Avatar
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    Originally posted by coreman
    I've got no idea what you people are talking about when you say you MUST have a spotter for HIT. The only exercise I can think of where you would need one is squats. Just get someone to spot for that one set and that's it. Everything else can be done on your own. Use dumbbells...self spot. If you're using forced reps and negatives then you're not training properly. Just use rest-pause if you want an intensity technique.
    bump on that, the way I train is I do abbreviated training for 5 weeks, than more of a pure HIT style. I have yet to hit a plateau.

    Just to let you guys know my friend and his workout partner are devising a new low volume mass building program for volume addicts, I'll post it once we work out all the details.
    "I thought I was looking at my mother's old douche bag except that's in Ohio." - Dudley Dawson aka Booger

    "Idle Hands spend time at the genitals, and we all know God hates that" - Drippy
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  9. #9
    Registered User Kane Fan's Avatar
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    the rob

    don't make me bitchbeat you like 3 minute warning....
    ; o )

    hrm, forced reps are the ideas behind heavyduty that I like best
    seriously tho when you ask a guy in the gym for a spot that's fine for a regular set
    but if I was doing a HIT super intense set I would want someone that I KNOW I can count on not someone I found doing curls in the squat rack : P
    No-Dope-Crew.

    here's something more constructive
    I helped a guy gain 1/4" on his biceps with 1 workout, and it was definatly volume training
    eat that you buncha HIT nazi's
    (also helped Jesin gain 6/10 " and Q gained 1/10th", also DoctorX2k2 gained 1/4")

    -unrelated bicep comment-
    and btw, I can Hammer Curl the 120's dangit!

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  10. #10
    Old School Member Bone's Avatar
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    If you're an ecto dont even bother with HIT...........wont do a damn thing for you!!!

    Peace

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  11. #11
    Hardgainer Personified ShallowGrave's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Bone
    If you're an ecto dont even bother with HIT...........wont do a damn thing for you!!!

    Peace

    Bone
    In my opinion all ectos should be doing HIT or some other form of abbreviated training. Ectos have fast metabolisms and therefore have trouble gaining weight (fat or muscle). Therefore time spent lifting (thus burning extreme amounts of calories, should be reduced as much as possible. How do we reduce this time? By eliminating unneccessary exercises and doing the minimal number of sets to induce growth...in other words HIT or another form of abbreviated training
    "That laws that forbid the carrying of arms disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve to encourage rather than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man"
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  12. #12
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    Hit will work for anyone that applies it properly . The same can be said for volume training . With HIT you must be very intense with your training , keep the workout short and rest until the bodypart is ready to lift again usually 5 to 7 days later . With volume training you workout for longer periods and because you don't work the muscle as hard as HIT does the you have to work it for longer periods and rest until the muscle is fully recovered . To say it won't work for a certain body part is incorrect . You can overtrain with either system and that more than anyother factor is why most people stop gaining after the initial "anything will work period " .
    "The greatest danger to most of us is not that we aim too high and miss it but that we aim too low and reach it"
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  13. #13
    Registered User Sonny's Avatar
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    Originally posted by coreman
    I've got no idea what you people are talking about when you say you MUST have a spotter for HIT. The only exercise I can think of where you would need one is squats. Just get someone to spot for that one set and that's it. Everything else can be done on your own. Use dumbbells...self spot. If you're using forced reps and negatives then you're not training properly. Just use rest-pause if you want an intensity technique.
    To go to ABSOLUTE failure, you need a spotter! How do you spot yourself on Bench Presses, Military presses, pullovers, lying extensions etc. You need a spotter to help you grind out that last rep!
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  14. #14
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    I would say volume. BUt I don't mean do 50 sets of bicep curls like most people new to this sport do. I mean a considerable amount of volume. I think one exercises once a week doesn't do much. But i do believe in high intensity as long as it is with a good amount of volume (but not too much). I do fo some reason though, prefer hit cardio over normal 30 minute cardios. I like it a lot better and it is a lot shorter then normal cardio (like 10-15 minutes long).
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  15. #15
    Registered User coreman's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Sonny
    To go to ABSOLUTE failure, you need a spotter! How do you spot yourself on Bench Presses, Military presses, pullovers, lying extensions etc. You need a spotter to help you grind out that last rep!
    What the hell? The point is to go to total positive failure. When you can no longer get a rep on your own you've reached that point. Anything a spotter adds is a forced rep and you don't need that for HIT!!
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    Bone, I am curious as to why you think that HIT is a waste for ectos. I know many who have gained well off it. I am ecto to ecto-meso and I find it to not be too useful. I have been known to bring protein shakes to the gym though and work it between body parts if I am doing two body parts a day so I may not be the best one to comment on this. I still do relatively low volume but HIT and extremely lowv olume do not work for me. High volume also works for me, but I don't like doing more than necessary if my growth won't be substantially higher. If I did high volume, my growth would likelly be slightly higher than it is now.
    Cheers,
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  17. #17
    Registered User Sonny's Avatar
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    Originally posted by coreman
    What the hell? The point is to go to total positive failure. When you can no longer get a rep on your own you've reached that point. Anything a spotter adds is a forced rep and you don't need that for HIT!!
    I know what you mean. But personally, I'm never quite sure if I've even hit POSITIVE failure I'm never sure if I can manage one more rep after my last one, especially at the end of the set when I'm tired. Like I said, I can't dare myself to try one more because I might not make it, then I'm in trouble. So I can't say whether I had one more rep or not without a spotter there just in case.

    Of course, this applies only to certain exercises.
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  18. #18
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    Originally posted by Kane Fan

    of course if your in my body hopefuly I'll be in Matt Hardyz....
    and as long as he dosn't wind up in Lita's body....
    hmmm I'm digressing....
    '....hopefuly I'll be in Matt Hardyz....'???

    Erm, if you are talking the way I think you are, I would rather have a body like Batistas or Triple H's, but with better legs. If you truly wanted to be inside someones body though, I'd suggest Lita.
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  19. #19
    Registered User Complete Muscle's Avatar
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    Hey JeremyD, did any of our answers help? What's your opinion??
    Make time to eat!
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  20. #20
    Registered User Kane Fan's Avatar
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    no no no
    you see Lita and Matt are friends (a couple actually)
    so you see..
    Lita...
    nm I can't bring myself to say it but you get the damned idea
    btw good taste in women john_thomas


    now if your doing Hit, and you have no spotter
    what exactly do you do on the bench press when you've hit possitive failure?
    just wait patiently for your body to recover so you can get the weight off of yourself?
    HIT w/out a spotter = abreviated training
    and this isn't abreviated vs volume
    it's HIT vs volume
    No-Dope-Crew.

    here's something more constructive
    I helped a guy gain 1/4" on his biceps with 1 workout, and it was definatly volume training
    eat that you buncha HIT nazi's
    (also helped Jesin gain 6/10 " and Q gained 1/10th", also DoctorX2k2 gained 1/4")

    -unrelated bicep comment-
    and btw, I can Hammer Curl the 120's dangit!

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  21. #21
    Registered User JeremyD's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Complete Muscle
    Hey JeremyD, did any of our answers help? What's your opinion??


    Well. I'm currently doing a volume routine. I switch it up every 4-6 weeks though. My body gets used to it very quickly and I need to change things up often to avoid plateaus. I've got 2 weeks left and I go back to HIT.

    I've just been really interested in people's oppinnions on the subject for a while now. I keep reading "the ultimate mass building" articles and half say HIT, the other half say volume.....
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  22. #22
    Registered User JeremyD's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Kane Fan
    now if your doing Hit, and you have no spotter
    what exactly do you do on the bench press when you've hit possitive failure?
    just wait patiently for your body to recover so you can get the weight off of yourself?

    That was my question......

    There are some lifts that can be done to absolute failure without a spotter. But for things like squats, bench press, etc, there is no way I'd go to failure witout a spot.....
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  23. #23
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    but with better legs.
    YOU NUTS? have you sen HHH's quads?
    If birds use their pecs to fly........do gargoyles use their traps?


    I went from 95 lbs to 280 RIPPED in 5 weeks eating ONLY eggs, so don't talk to me about hard gainers! (PS: I can deadlift 3 cars and a bus AND I can squat Roseanne)
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  24. #24
    Registered User Sonny's Avatar
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    Yeah, HHH's legs only look small because of his massive upper body!
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    When in doubt PIITB! The Rob's Avatar
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    If birds use their pecs to fly........do gargoyles use their traps?


    I went from 95 lbs to 280 RIPPED in 5 weeks eating ONLY eggs, so don't talk to me about hard gainers! (PS: I can deadlift 3 cars and a bus AND I can squat Roseanne)
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    Originally posted by The Rob
    YOU NUTS? have you sen HHH's quads?
    Yes I have, on many occasions. He has been one of my favourite wrestlers for about five or six years now. Upper body - great. Lower body - crap. His quads alone make you want to cry, and thats before you look at his calves. Rock or Rhyno have better quads. Hell, even Test has better quads. But no one else had their left quad torn like his, so I'll make an exception.
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    Originally posted by The Rob
    Nice pic of his quads here
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    Registered User Kane Fan's Avatar
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    HHH's primary problem is his forearms
    from a BB standpoint
    calves somewhat
    I don't notice upper legs being a real problem
    Test is NO WHERE NEAR HHH's leg size
    No-Dope-Crew.

    here's something more constructive
    I helped a guy gain 1/4" on his biceps with 1 workout, and it was definatly volume training
    eat that you buncha HIT nazi's
    (also helped Jesin gain 6/10 " and Q gained 1/10th", also DoctorX2k2 gained 1/4")

    -unrelated bicep comment-
    and btw, I can Hammer Curl the 120's dangit!

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    Not size, but shape. I haven't seen the definition that Test has in Triple H. Like I said before, best person for quads is Rhyno.
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  30. #30
    When in doubt PIITB! The Rob's Avatar
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    biggest arms? Scot Steiner.............my God his arms are HUGE!
    Last edited by The Rob; 12-12-2002 at 07:53 PM.
    If birds use their pecs to fly........do gargoyles use their traps?


    I went from 95 lbs to 280 RIPPED in 5 weeks eating ONLY eggs, so don't talk to me about hard gainers! (PS: I can deadlift 3 cars and a bus AND I can squat Roseanne)
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