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  1. #1
    Registered User intel's Avatar
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    clen/t3...does it work

    i am thinking of using it????? does it work????????????
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  2. #2
    Registered User chris3g's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by intel
    i am thinking of using it????? does it work????????????
    of course they work. you sound like you've done little to no research on these substances though, and neither of them are to be taken lightly.

    clen can be effective but has also been linked to heart tissue necrosis. T3 will shut down your thyroid's natural production and should not be used without AAS.
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  3. #3
    Registered User intel's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by chris3g
    of course they work. you sound like you've done little to no research on these substances though, and neither of them are to be taken lightly.

    clen can be effective but has also been linked to heart tissue necrosis. T3 will shut down your thyroid's natural production and should not be used without AAS.
    whats AAS
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  4. #4
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    Originally Posted by intel
    whats AAS
    anabolic steroids
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  5. #5
    Registered User intel's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by chris3g
    anabolic steroids
    i never used steroids and i dont think am gonna use them antime soon...does that make T3 out of the table.
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  6. #6
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    Ask in the steroids forum, they might be able to help.
    To get what you have never had, you must do what you have never done.

    Evil prevails when good men do nothing.
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  7. #7
    Registered User intel's Avatar
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    i thought it was a losing fat topic..
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    I'm not an expert by any means on illegal supplements, but I was under the impression that T3 can be/is as dangerous as AAS. (Both long and short term)

    So when you say you don't want to take AAS but do want to take T3... I ask you "why?".

    Also:

    AAS/Clen/T3 are all illegal in the US. That's why you're being directed to the steroid forum.

    -Good Luck
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  9. #9
    Registered User northernstar's Avatar
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    Drugs are bad, mmkay?
    Extremephysique Forums - Sign up and refer northernstar!
    http://z13.invisionfree.com/ExtremePhysique/index.php?act=idx
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  10. #10
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    Some good info that will help.

    Disclaimer

    T3 is not a drug that should be taken lightly. It's a very potent thyroid hormone. Messing with your natural hormone levels is very dangerous and unpredictable. The potential for complications is very high, and abuse can lead to thyroid disease and low thyroid output not only immediately upon discontinuation, but also later in life.

    There is no such thing as safe use of T3 outside of a medical setting. There is only "safer" use. Use at your own risk.

    Introduction: What is T3 and what are the side effects?

    This article is pushing 2000 words, so here's a link for anyone who's interested: http://arbl.cvmbs.colostate.edu/hbo...roid/index.html

    What about T4?

    Bodybuilders should not use T4. It's a much weaker drug designed for long term use in patients with chronic thyroid disease. 100mcg of T4 corresponds to 25mcg of T3 and offers equivalent thyroid support; however, this does not translate to equal weight loss benefits. It has made itself on sources' lists simply because it is widely available and extremely cheap.

    Is T3 catabolic?

    It may shock many people to know that T3 is NOT catabolic per se. Corticosteroids are catabolic drugs that attack muscle tissue directly; T3 does not. It is a very potent calorie burner and it does not discriminate between carbohydrates, protein and fat. Unlike DNP, it has no protein sparing properties. T3 is also more likely to burn muscle than fat in lean users (10-12% BF), but this can be said for any extreme drop in caloric intake and uptake such as starvation diets (Caloric intake <10 X BW).

    Muscle loss can be avoided with the use of anabolic agents. T3's alleged catabolic properties have become legendary. Excessive amounts of T3 (more than 75mcg), will have a very strong calorie burning effect, and since some bodybuilder use 150 mcg, it's easy to see why such misinformation has been so prevalent. The average bodybuilder will not need several grams of steroids to counter a reasonable dose of T3. There is no need to use more than 75mcg-100mcg. Going beyond this dose will cause more harm than good, as massive doses of steroids need to be used to counter the muscle loss, further stressing the body for minimal, if any additional benefits.

    I think I've lost 20 lbs of muscle!

    T3 can also give your muscles an extremely flat look and very soft feel. This side effect of extreme glycogen depletion can have a very profound psychological impact in bodybuilders. It often feels and looks like muscle loss when it's simply a lack of muscle "pump" because of restricted blood flow to that area and depletion of glycogen stores in muscles. Generally, carbohydrate loading does not solve this problem. "Pumping up" (or training for that matter) brings more blood into the muscles and is a temporary albeit effective solution. Clenbuterol and certain steroids can offset the lack of muscle pump because these drugs tend to "harden up" users by bringing more blood into to the muscles.


    Are steroids absolutely necessary on T3?

    This is very dependent on the user. Diet must be flawless, only reasonable doses should be considered (50mcg) and the user must know his body to a tee. Those who don't know what that last statement entails should not even consider T3. This is a veteran drug and should not be used by bodybuilders who are new to the game or do not have a deep understanding of how there bodies react to certain foods and training philosophies.

    T3 can be used alone or better yet with Clenbuterol without fear of muscle loss in overly fat people (20-25% BF). This is not recommended, however, since these people will generally return to overeating upon discontinuation of their cycle and may likely end up with more weight than they started with.


    How should I eat on T3?

    Protein should be kept at 1.5-2g per lb of bodyweight. The majority of protein should come from lean meats. Shakes can be used, but should not be heavily relied on as they are more likely to be turned into glucose and used immediately for energy. Caloric reduction should come from carbs and fat only.


    What is T3 used for?

    Fat-loss: The main use for T3.

    Increase Nutrient Uptake: Not very well known, but this is a great use for T3. Doses between 6.25-12.5mcg do not shutdown endogenous thyroid output. T3 at this dose can be used to add LBM and help in keeping the fat off. When doses are kept at 6.25-12.5mcg, muscles are full and rock hard, and energy is through the roof. At these light doses, it's common for people to go to the bathroom 5-6 times a day because there bodies are making more efficient use of the food they eat.
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  11. #11
    Registered User KillahBee's Avatar
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    Can I permanently shutdown my Thyroid?


    Simply put, NO, it can't happen. Natural thyroid production will be completely shutdown for a good period of time after using T3, but it will eventually recover. Bruce ******* posted this study on the Testosterone website:

    N Engl J Med 1975 Oct 2;293(14):681-4
    Recovery of pituitary thyrotropic function after withdrawal of prolonged thyroid-suppression therapy.
    Vagenakis AG, Braverman LE, Azizi F, Portinay GI, Ingbar SH.

    The pattern of thyrotropin secretion was analyzed in seven euthyroid women, before and after withdrawal of long-term thyroid hormone, by serial measurements of thyroid 131l uptake, serum thyroxine, tri-iodothyronine, and thyrotropin concentrations, and the response to thyrotropin-releasing hormone. During exogenous hormone administration, 131l uptake was suppressed, and serum thyrotropin concentrations before and after administration of thyrotropin-releasing hormone were undetectable.
    After withdrawal of exogenous hormone, thyrotropin secretory function was transiently impaired, as indicated by undetectable basal thyrotropin concentrations together with absence of response to thyrotropin-releasing hormone, and subsequently by normal values of basal thyrotropin concentration and normal responses to releasing hormone while serum thyroxine and tri-iodothyronine concentrations were subnormal.
    Decreased thyrotropin reserve persisted for two to five weeks. Detectable values of serum thyrotropin (less than 1.2 muU per milliliter) and a normal 131l uptake usually occurred concurrently in two to three weeks. Serum thyroxine concentration returned to normal at least four weeks after hormone withdrawal.

    Basically, it is extremely important to eat cleanly and keep up with cardio for at least 4 weeks and up to 6 weeks following a T3 cycle. It's also very important to ramp down properly and not use any drug that have an effect on metabolism and thyroid function, i.e. Clen, Ephedrine, Steroids, DNP, T2

    Calories should be kept in check, even lowered in some cases, and High Intensity Cardio is a must; at least 20mins, 3times a week. L-Tyrosine can be used at 1-3g a day to help thyroid function, but its effectiveness is debatable.

    Switching to a higher carb, lower fat and lower protein diet is crucial in helping your thyroid bounce back after a cycle. A three-day carb up would be a good idea following a T3 cycle. This study demonstrates how important carbohydrates are for normal thyroid function. (Note: Some people seem to think of carbs as Lucky Charms and toast when there are far better carb choices that won't make you look like the Michelin Man.)

    Dietary-induced alterations in thyroid hormone metabolism during overnutrition.
    Danforth E Jr, Horton ES, O'Connell M, Sims EA, Burger AG, Ingbar SH, Braverman L, Vagenakis AG.

    Diet-induced alterations in thyroid hormone concentrations have been found in studies of long-term (7 mo) overfeeding in man (the Vermont Study). In these studies of weight gain in normal weight volunteers, increased calories were required to maintain weight after gain over and above that predicted from their increased size. This was associated with increased concentrations of triiodothyronine (T3). No change in the caloric requirement to maintain weight or concentrations of T3 was found after long-term (3 mo) fat overfeeding. In studies of short-term overfeeding (3 wk) the serum concentrations of T3 and its metabolic clearance were increased, resulting in a marked increase in the production rate of T3 irrespective of the composition of the diet overfed (carbohydrate 29.6 +/- 2.1 to 54.0 +/- 3.3, fat 28.2 +/- 3.7 to 49.1 +/- 3.4, and protein 31.2 +/- 2.1 to 53.2 +/- 3.7 microgram/d per 70 kg). Thyroxine production was unaltered by overfeeding (93.7 +/- 6.5 vs. 89.2 +/- 4.9 microgram/d per 70 kg). It is still speculative whether these dietary-induced alterations in thyroid hormone metabolism are responsible for the simultaneously increased expenditure of energy in these subjects and therefore might represent an important physiological adaptation in times of caloric affluence. During the weight-maintenance phases of the long-term overfeeding studies, concentrations of T3 were increased when carbohydrate was isocalorically substituted for fat in the diet. In short-term studies the peripheral concentrations of T3 and reverse T3 found during fasting were mimicked in direction, if not in degree, with equal or hypocaloric diets restricted in carbohydrate were fed. It is apparent from these studies that the caloric content as well as the composition of the diet, specifically, the carbohydrate content, can be important factors in regulating the peripheral metabolism of thyroid hormones.

    A post cycle crash is inevitable; this is the time when your diet really matters.

    So how do I cycle this stuff?

    T3/Clen/Anavar Cycle

    Anavar is the single best steroid to stack with T3. Its anti catabolic properties are unmatched and it will not shut you down. There's nothing like simultaneous sex hormone and thyroid hormone shutdown; I bet it feels great. Primobolan at 200mg a week would be a good substitute since it doesn't shut you down. Dbol at 10-15mg taken in the morning can also be used but Arimidex must be included with the Dbol. T3 increases the amount of beta-3-adregenic receptors (by 500%!) in white adipose tissue, i.e. the fat that covers muscle. Since clen exerts most of its effect on the same receptors; the combination with T3 would yield quite a strong synergistic effect. T3/Clen may be too much for the heart in some people.

    T3:

    12.5mcg for 5-7 days (optional but recommended)

    37.5mcg for 5 days
    75mcg for 15 days
    50mcg for 5 days
    37.5mcg for 5 days
    25mcg for 5 days
    12.5 mcg for 5 days
    6.25mcg for 5-7 days

    Clen:

    30 days: 60-120mcg ED. Use clen from the first 37.5mcg dose to the last 25mcg dose. Ketotifen will make you more sensitive to clenbuterol so doses should be adjust accordingly.

    Ketotifen:

    Stacked with Clenbuterol, 2mg ED. This drug may not be an option for some people since it can make them extremely hungry. If this is the case, Clen should be used 2 weeks on 2 weeks off.

    Anavar:

    Oxandrin;

    15mg ED with 37.5mcg of T3,
    25mg ED with 75mcg of T3,
    20mg ED with 50mcg of T3.


    Here's a more sensitive approach that can be used between cycles since it doesn't include AS:

    BigAndy69's T3 Cycle:

    The cycle can actually be used to add muscle mass or drop body fat depending on caloric intake. For gaining muscle mass, the Yohimbine and Anastrozole are not necessary.

    W1-W4:

    T3: 12.5mg ED
    Clen: 60-100mcg ED
    Ketotifen: 2mg ED
    Anastrozole: 0.5mg ED
    Yohimbine: 10-15mg ED (maybe too much to handle in some)

    Carb/Pro/Fat:

    20-30/50-60/20

    ALA: 1500mg ED
    Taurine: 3g ED

    W5:

    T3: 6.25mg ED

    L-Tyrosine: 1-2g ED
    ALA: 2500mg ED
    Taurine: 3g ED

    Carb/Pro/Fat:

    50-60/20-30/20

    (High Intensity Cardio)

    W6:

    ALA: 1500mg ED

    Carb/Pro/Fat:

    40/40/20

    (High Intensity Cardio)


    BigAndy69's T3 Post Cycle Therapy (4-6 weeks):

    Initial 3 day carb up:

    Carbs: 1.75g X BW
    Protein: 0.75g X BW
    Fat: 0.25g X BW

    Supplements:

    L-Tyrosine: 1-3g ED
    ALA: 1500mg ED
    Flaxseed oil + Fish oil: 20g total ED

    Diet: >50% Carbs/ 30% Protein/ <20% Fat, calories at maintenance (+ or - 12 X BW)

    High intensity cardio: 75-80% of Max Heart Rate; 15-20 min 3-4 times a week.

    No Steroids, Ephedrine, Clen, T2, DNP, or anything that has an effect on metabolism. Moderate doses of caffeine can be used before cardio.


    Anything Else I should know?

    T3 should be taken on an empty stomach, in the morning. If more than 50mcg is being taken, then it should be split through the day.

    BigAndy69


    References:


    N Engl J Med 1975 Oct 2;293(14):681-4
    Recovery of pituitary thyrotropic function after withdrawal of prolonged thyroid-suppression therapy.
    Vagenakis AG, Braverman LE, Azizi F, Portinay GI, Ingbar SH.

    Dietary-induced alterations in thyroid hormone metabolism during overnutrition.
    Danforth E Jr, Horton ES, O'Connell M, Sims EA, Burger AG, Ingbar SH, Braverman L, Vagenakis AG.

    A paradigm of experimentally induced mild hyperthyroidism: effects on nitrogen balance, body composition, and energy expenditure in healthy young men.

    J Clin Endocrinol Metab 1997 Mar;82(3):765-70 (ISSN: 0021-972X)
    Lovejoy JC; Smith SR; Bray GA; De Lany JP; Rood JC; Gouvier D; Windhauser M; Ryan DH; Macchiavelli R; Tulley R
    Pennington Biomedical Research Center, Louisiana State University, Baton Rouge 70808, USA. lovejoj@mhs.pbrc.edu.

    Metabolism 1981 Aug;30(8):783-91
    Whole body leucine and lysine metabolism studied with [1-13C]leucine and [alpha-15N]lysine: response in healthy young men given excess energy intake.
    Motil KJ, Bier DM, Matthews DE, Burke JF, Young VR.

    Rubio A, et al. "Thyroid hormone and norepinephrine signaling in brown adipose tissue. II: Differential effects of thyroid hormone on beta 3-adrenergic receptors in brown and white adipose tissue." Endocrinology 1995 Aug;136(8):3277-84


    Courtesy of BigAndy69 at EF.com
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  12. #12
    Registered User P01Shooter's Avatar
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    Intel, if you don't know what aas stands for you shouldn't even think about clen or t3.
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  13. #13
    Registered User KillahBee's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by P01Shooter
    Intel, if you don't know what aas stands for you shouldn't even think about clen or t3.

    Almost as bad as ''whats PCT stand for''.

    Its known as research!!!
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  14. #14
    Registered User intel's Avatar
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    i know what PCT stand for???
    u dont need it when u r using clen and t3...
    i was tinking of using it 3 weeks on and 3 off,,,
    like this
    Day Clen T3
    1 20 25
    2 40 25
    3 60 50
    4 80 50
    5 100 50
    6 100 50
    7 100 50
    8 100 50
    9 100 75
    10 100 75
    11 100 75
    12 100 75
    13 100 75
    14 100 75
    15 120 50
    16 120 50
    17 120 50
    18 120 25
    19 120 25
    20 120 25
    21 120 25


    sound like a plan,.,,,what do u think???
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  15. #15
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    Originally Posted by intel
    i know what PCT stand for???
    u dont need it when u r using clen and t3...
    i was tinking of using it 3 weeks on and 3 off,,,
    like this
    Day Clen T3
    1 20 25
    2 40 25
    3 60 50
    4 80 50
    5 100 50
    6 100 50
    7 100 50
    8 100 50
    9 100 75
    10 100 75
    11 100 75
    12 100 75
    13 100 75
    14 100 75
    15 120 50
    16 120 50
    17 120 50
    18 120 25
    19 120 25
    20 120 25
    21 120 25


    sound like a plan,.,,,what do u think???

    You DON'T cycle T3 on/off. You need to run it straight, 6 weeks MAX for beginners. 4 days at 25, then bump upto 50 for 4 days, and so on until you get up to YOU'RE prefered max dose. Then back down using the same 4 day method.

    Post T3 cycle you need at LEAST 3 month off to give time for thyroid funtion/release to get back to normal. Its all in the article. As the tite states, 'Everything you need to know about T3'.
    Last edited by KillahBee; 05-10-2006 at 10:41 AM.
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  16. #16
    Registered User intel's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by KillahBee
    You DON'T cycle T3 on/off. You need to run it straight, 6 weeks MAX for beginners. 4 days at 25, then bump upto 50 for 4 days, and so on until you get up to YOU'RE prefered max dose. Then back down using the same 4 day method.

    Post T3 cycle you need at LEAST 3 month off to give time for thyroid funtion/release to get back to normal. Its all in the article. As the tite states, 'Everything you need to know about T3'.
    i was thinking of using them only for three weeks both glen and T3....u think it wont work out...
    i dont want to use for more than a month!!!!!!!
    hw about the 2day cycle>>>how long you have to stay on it,,,
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    Originally Posted by intel
    i was thinking of using them only for three weeks both glen and T3....u think it wont work out...
    i dont want to use for more than a month!!!!!!!
    hw about the 2day cycle>>>how long you have to stay on it,,,
    It can work. If you do decide to go for only 3 weeks, only go upto 50. You need to really stick with the '4 day' method.
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    Originally Posted by intel
    i was thinking of using them only for three weeks both glen and T3....u think it wont work out...
    i dont want to use for more than a month!!!!!!!
    hw about the 2day cycle>>>how long you have to stay on it,,,

    dude, just stop .. you asked a question, got the answer you didn't want to hear, and now are trying to wiggle your way to getting the one you want to hear. dont do t3 w/o test ... and if you ask what test is, just do the t3, jump right into 100mcg a day run it for a long time and then just stop
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    Registered User intel's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by KillahBee
    It can work. If you do decide to go for only 3 weeks, only go upto 50. You need to really stick with the '4 day' method.
    i realy appreciate ur patient......
    does this sound good to you>
    Day Clen T3
    1 20 6.5
    2 40 12.5
    3 -- 25
    4 -- 25
    5 60 50
    6 80 50
    7 --- 50
    8 --- 50
    9 100 50
    10 100 50
    11 --- 50
    12 --- 50
    13 100 50
    14 100 50
    15 --- 50
    16 --- 37.5
    17 120 25
    18 120 25
    19 --- 25
    20 --- 12.5
    21 --- 6.5

    potassium tablets at 300mg
    5 grams of Taurine Everyday

    do i need to use benadryl in betwen cycles
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    Originally Posted by intel
    i realy appreciate ur patient......
    does this sound good to you>
    Day Clen T3
    1 20 6.5
    2 40 12.5
    3 -- 25
    4 -- 25
    5 60 50
    6 80 50
    7 --- 50
    8 --- 50
    9 100 50
    10 100 50
    11 --- 50
    12 --- 50
    13 100 50
    14 100 50
    15 --- 50
    16 --- 37.5
    17 120 25
    18 120 25
    19 --- 25
    20 --- 12.5
    21 --- 6.5

    potassium tablets at 300mg
    5 grams of Taurine Everyday

    do i need to use benadryl in betwen cycles

    Dude, you really need to lay that out a tad better if you want opinions. I'm not even going to attempt to read that.
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    forget the t3 your just gonna hurt yourself ... run the clen either 10 days on/10 off, or 14 on/14 off ... ramp clen up 25mcg a day until u can't stand it, back it down 25 mcg and use that dosage ... dont use it for longer than 2 weeks straght, it'll will render receptors on your heart useless after 2 weeks, hence the cycling of it. apparently you can use it longer with ketofen (sp?), i think the benadryl is just a myth
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    Again, another FAQ article, but on clen.

    What is Clenbuterol?

    Clenbuterol is a beta-2 agonist and is used in many countries as a broncodilator
    for the treatment of asthma. Because of it's long half life, clenbuterol is not
    FDA approved for medical use. It is a central nervous system stimulant and acts
    like adrenaline. It shares many of the same side effects as other CNS stimulants
    like ephedrine. Contrary to popular belief, Clenbuterol has a half life of 35
    hours and not 48 hours.

    Dosing and Cycling

    Clenbuterol comes in 20mcg tablets, although it is also available in syrup, pump
    and injectable form. It's also available as a powder in some areas. Doses are
    very dependent on how well the user responds to the side effects, but somewhere
    in the range of 4-8 tablets per day for men and 2-4 tablets a day for women is
    most common. Clenbuterol loses its thermogenic effects after around 8 weeks when
    body temperature drops back to normal. Its anabolic/anti-catabolic properties
    fade away at around the 18 day mark. Taking the long half life into
    consideration, the most effective way of cycling clen is 2 weeks on/ 2 weeks off
    for no more than 12 weeks. Ephedrine or Yohimbine can be used in the off weeks.

    Clenbuterol vs Ephedrine vs DNP

    Ephedrine will raise metabolic levels by about 2-3 percent and 200mg of DNP
    raises metabolic levels by about 30 percent. Clenbuterol raises metabolic levels
    about 10 percent and it can raise body temperature several degrees.

    DNP is by far the most effective fat burner but many people will never use it
    because of the risks associated with it. It also offers no anti-catabolic
    benefit. Although it does have anti-catabolic effect, ephedrine's short
    half-life prevents it from being all that effective.

    As far as side effects, Clenbuterol's are certainly milder than DNP's, and some
    would even say milder than an ECA stack. There is no ECA-style crash on
    Clenbuterol and many users find it easier on the prostate and sex drive. This
    may in part be due to the fact that Clen is generally used for only 2 weeks at a
    time.

    Side effects

    NAUSEA
    NERVOUSNESS
    DIZZINESS
    DROWSINESS
    DRY MOUTH
    FACIAL FLUSHING
    HEADACHE
    HEARTBURN
    INCREASED BLOOD PRESSURE
    INCREASED SWEATING
    INSOMNIA
    LIGHTHEADEDNESS
    MUSCLE CRAMPS
    TREMORS
    VOMITING
    CHEST PAIN

    The most significant side effects are muscle cramps, nervousness, headaches, and
    increased blood pressure.

    Muscle cramps can be avoided by drinking 1.5-2 gallons of water and consuming
    bananas and oranges or supplementing with potassium tablets at 200-400mg a
    day taken before bed on an empty stomach. Taurine at 3-5grams is a necessity in
    minimizing cramps.

    Headaches can easily be avoided with Tylenol Extra Strength taking at the first
    signs of a headache.

    Common Uses

    Post-Cycle Therapy: Clen is used post cycle to aid in recovery. It allows the
    user to continue eating large amounts of food, without worrying about adding
    body fat. It also helps the user maintain more of his strength as well as his
    intensity in the gym. Diet: Roughly the same as on cycle.

    Fat loss: The most popular use for Clen, it also increases muscle hardness,
    vascularity, strength and size on a caloric deficit. For the most significant
    fat loss, Clen can be stacked with T3. Diet: A high protein(1.5g per lb of
    bodyweight), moderate carb(0.5g to 1g per lb of bodyweight), low fat diet(0.25g
    per lb of bodyweight) seems to work best with Clen.

    Alternative to Steroids: Clenbuterol has mild steroid-like properties and can be
    used by non-AS using bodybuilder to increase LBM as well as strength and muscle
    hardness. Diet: A moderate carb, high protein, moderate fat diet work well.

    Stimulant/Performance Enhancement: It can be used as a stimulant, but an ECA
    stack may be a better choice because of it's much shorter half-life. Diet: To
    take full advantage of the stimulatory effects of Clen, carbohydrates must be
    included in the diet. Ketogenic diets do not work well in this case.

    Precautions: Is Clen for you?

    The same precautions that apply to Ephedrine must be applied to Clen, although
    some people find ECA stacks are harsher than Clen. It should not be stacked
    with other CNS stimulants such as Ephedrine and Yohimbine. These combinations
    are unnecessary and potentially dangerous. Caffeine can be used in moderation
    before a workout for an extra quick. burst of energy.

    A word on Ketotifen

    Ketotifen is safe antihistamine used extensively some European countries to
    treat asthma and allergies. It can up regulate beta-2-receptors that Clen down
    regulates. Basically, it allows users to extend their use of Clen for 6-8 weeks
    at a time. 2-3mg a day is ideal, 10mg as found in "superclen" can make users
    extremely drowsy. It also increases the effectiveness of Clen so doses must be
    adjusted accordingly. The downfall of this drug is its ability to induce
    extreme hunger is some people, which is not a desirable state to be in when
    dieting.

    Cycling Clenbuterol

    Most users that report bad side effects and discontinue use are those who use
    high doses right at the start of the cycle. The worst side effects occur within
    the first 3-4 days of use.

    A first time user should not exceed 40mcg the first day. Increase by one tab
    until the side effects are not tolerable

    Example of a first cycle:

    Day1: 20mcg
    Day2: 40mcg
    Day3: 60mcg
    Day4: 80mcg
    Day5: 80mcg(Note: Increase the dose only when the side effects are tolerable)
    Day6-Day12: 100mcg
    Day13: 80 mcg (Tapering is not necessary, but it helps some users get back to
    normal gradually)
    Day14: 60 mcgs
    Day15: off
    Day16: off
    Day 17: ECA/ NYC stack

    Example of a second cycle:

    Day1: 60mcg
    Day2: 80mcg
    Day3: 80mcg
    Day4: 100mcg
    Day5: 100mcg
    Day6-Day12: 120mcg
    Day13: 100 mcg
    Day14: 80 mcgs
    Day15: off
    Day16: off
    Day 17: ECA/ NYC stack

    What else do I need to know?

    Taurine MUST be used with Clen at 3-5g daily. Clenbuterol depletes taurine
    levels in the liver which stops the conversion of T4 to T3 in the liver.
    Taurine allows the user to avoid the dreaded rebound effect and painful muscle
    cramps. It's a must with Clen.

    Clenbuterol should not be taken too close to a workout. It can interfere with
    your breathing and complete ruin your workout. When doing cardio, it's
    advisable to stay at a consistent pace and avoid HIIT style routines.

    Do not take Clen Past 4pm and drink plenty of water; 1.5-2 gallons a day.

    Courtesy of BA69 at EF.com
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    KillahBee... thats what am talking about!!!!!!!
    thanks alot for the article...
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    Originally Posted by KillahBee
    Again, another FAQ article, but on clen.

    What is Clenbuterol?

    Clenbuterol is a beta-2 agonist and is used in many countries as a broncodilator ....

    fwiw that is an old article that was written before more recent research, showing the possibility of IRREVERSIBLE HEART TISSUE NECROSIS due to clenbuterol usage. i would definitely no longer consider the possible side effects of clen to be less severe than E/C. I am not using or considering clen so i have not spent the time to fully research this, but i would think you would at least want to check it out before planning out your cycle, dont you think?

    and like i said before, t3 without aas is retarded, unless you don't give a **** about losing muscle just as fast as you are losing fat.
    Last edited by chris3g; 05-10-2006 at 12:41 PM.
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    Originally Posted by chris3g
    fwiw that is an old article that was written before more recent research, showing the possibility of IRREVERSIBLE HEART TISSUE NECROSIS due to clenbuterol usage. i would definitely no longer consider the possible side effects of clen to be less severe than E/C. I am not using or considering clen so i have not spent the time to fully research this, but i would think you would at least want to check it out before planning out your cycle, dont you think?

    and like i said before, t3 without aas is retarded, unless you don't give a **** about losing muscle just as fast as you are losing fat.
    Everything in that article is RELEVANT to a beginner clen cycle. Unless you're a scientist or a pre-grad student, what you are talking about (in precise detail) is irrelevant. We all know clen is hard/or can be on the heart. This is at our own risk, and if taken properly and moderately, then there is absolutely nothing to worry about whatsoever.
    Last edited by KillahBee; 05-10-2006 at 12:47 PM.
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    Registered User intel's Avatar
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    o_O,,,, if i can go down to 10% bf i will do T3 ............and yeah i heard about the side effects and its a risk am willing to take!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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    Originally Posted by KillahBee
    Everything in that article is RELEVANT to a beginner clen cycle. Unless you're a scientist or a pre-grad student, what you are talking about (in precise detail) is irrelevant. We all know clen is hard/or can be on the heart. This is at our own risk, and if taken properly and moderately, then there is absolutely nothing to worry about whatsoever.
    do you know what necrosis is? hard on the heart because it's a stimulant, and permanent damage due to eating through heart tissue are 2 completely different things.

    what i am saying is - clen may actually be considerably more dangerous then what was generally thought at the time that faq was written. At the very least, it is certainly worth looking into further if it is something you are considering.
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    i dont think that 2 weeks will be that bad, its better than DNP
    anyways i guess am gonna use it without the T3,,,for 2 weeks and 2weeks off... and that will be it only one cycle.
    when u come to think most fat burning have the same side effects so why not clen...........

    bty, the reason its illegal in US its because of it 35h half life.............
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    i thought the 2 week on and 2 week off is all b/s... esp if u do cardio..



    also how trhe hell do u measure 20mcg from liquid? what do u buy to do this? confuses me...

    everything is bad for u, all stims r, half the products we take, test boosters, just cos they say natural, no one knows how the herbs or **** affects our bodies

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    i dont know about the liquid but the pills are easy to manage...
    what kind of benadryl are u guys talking about?????????????
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