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  1. #1
    Registered User Hero28's Avatar
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    What do bcaa's do for you.

    I asked a guy at the place i buy supps but he said they didn't do much of any thing, but I read on the forums different. Any advice?
    I am cutting at this time.
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  2. #2
    Registered User young_squatter's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Hero28
    I asked a guy at the place i buy supps but he said they didn't do much of any thing, but I read on the forums different. Any advice?
    I am cutting at this time.
    Well that guy is wrong, BCAA greatly help with recovery and help you pack on mass, well cutting there even more important, they will help you maintain and even gain lean mass well cutting. Here are a lot of articles to prove BCAA are very effective.

    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=718025
    http://www.vmcs.com/spindel/amino.html
    http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/beast11.htm
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=704634
    http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/bcaa2.htm
    http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/beast23.htm
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=600050
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...=pubmed_DocSum
    http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/md88.htm
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=431025
    New 5/3/1 Strength Journal:
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=152156313&p=1031620863#post1031620863
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  3. #3
    Registered User Hero28's Avatar
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    thanks
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  4. #4
    everything burns GM54's Avatar
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    I have actually read a study where they took two groups, one on creatine and one on BCAA's and the BCAA group's results blew the creatine group out of the water..I'm going to have to find where i read it, was a few months ago
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  5. #5
    Xtend is the Greatest Scivation's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by GYRO
    I have actually read a study where they took two groups, one on creatine and one on BCAA's and the BCAA group's results blew the creatine group out of the water..I'm going to have to find where i read it, was a few months ago
    Xtend + Creatine is an optimal combo!
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  6. #6
    ALLMAX NUTRITION Sixpack's Avatar
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    Guys what do u think of this post? It was posted by a pretty knowlegable guy on here Alan .

    "Could Xtend replace Option 2 for preW (20-50g prot + 40-80g carb)? It depends on the nature & timing of what you had before that, but suffice it to say that the science on prot + carbs immediately preW is pretty damn solid for both sparing internal fuel reserves & inducing protein synthesis. Not to mention, if you scoot that same prot + carbs elsewhere, the partitioning of them might not be as optimal. And from another practical standpoint, are your goals such that a 400 kcal reduction wouldn't hurt? You'd have to answer that one for yourself.

    Let's take a look at Xtend's fact sheet:
    Quote:
    Serving Size: 2 Scoops (11.5 grams)
    Price of larger tub: $79.99 (price per serving $0.88)

    Vitamin B6 (as Pyroxidine HCl) 10mg
    Leucine 3.5g
    Glutamine 2.5g
    Isoleucine 1.75g
    Valine 1.75g
    Citrulline Malate 1g

    Ingredients:
    L-Leucine, L-Glutamine, L-Valine, L-Isoleucine, Citrulline Malate, Natural and Artificial Flavors, Potassium Citrate, Citric Acid, Acesulfame Potassium, Sucralose, Pyridoxine HCl, Red #40, Blue #1

    Now let's take a look at Bioplex unflavored WPI:
    Quote:
    Serving size: 1.5 scoops (33g)
    Price of 5lb tub: 54.98 (price per serving = $0.80)

    Alanine 1.7g
    Arginine 0.9g
    Aspartic Acid 3.5g
    Cysteine 0.6g
    Glutamic Acid 6g
    Glycine 0.7g
    Histidine 0.6g
    Isoleucine 2.5g
    Leucine 3.8g
    Lysine 3g
    Methionine 0.6g
    Phenylalanine 1g
    Proline 1.9g
    Serine 1.8g
    Threonine 2.3g
    Tryptophan 0.6g
    Tyrosine 0.9g
    Valine 1.8g

    Ingredients:
    Pure microfiltered whey protein isolate

    I bolded what both products have in common.

    WPI has more BCAA content than Xtend when the serving size per pricepoint is matched. I even gave Xtend a little slack; if I matched the price per serving size exactly, the WPI's BCAA content would beat out Xtend's even more.

    To Xtend's credit, it has glutamine (2.5g), citrulline malate (1g), & vitamin b6, WPI has none. However, WPI has the rest of the essential & nonessential aminos, & other bioactive microfractions not present in Xtend.

    If I were to be cynical about this, citrulline malate (CM) was found to be effective for increasing aerobic capacity. Anaerobic effects remain to be measured. Not only that, the most recent studies on CM are funded by the French manufacturer of it under the trade name Stimol. Ah, but this is a common confounder in research. How valuable is the 2.5g glutamine per serving in Xtend? For purposes of building new muscle, probably nil. For therapeutic effects on gastrointestinal health, that dose is probably too low. As for the B6, although it's an essential co-factor for glycogen phosphorylase and certain enzymes in the alanine-glucose cycle, it hasn't been observed in research to enhance athletic performance. So far, it's all speculation based on circumstantial bits & pieces. There's also the inclusion of artificial sweeteners & colors that I'm not crazy about, regardless of dose.

    On the optimistic side of Xtend, you can always count on the powerful placebo effect. Even non-nutritive flavored drinks taken in during training encourage the motivation to drink more, & thus better preserve fluid balance in endurance exercise. You can capitalize on psychosomatic effect even further by adding sugar to your Xtend dose, since carbohydrate receptors in the mouth act upon central mechanisms that facilitate ergogenesis. Sure, you can take Xtend during training on top of the recommended intake I outlined at the start of this thread, but if your training bout is 60 minutes or less, the supp's actual effect beyond the preW shake you're already absorbing will be more psychologically based than anything. To be fair, I can see the product potentially benefitting those whose training bouts approach the 2 hr mark. But even then, there are questions to be raised about exercise type & cheaper alternatives to the supplement.
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  7. #7
    Xtend is the Greatest Scivation's Avatar
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    Free form aminos are NOT the same. Read Derek's FAQ.
    www.scivation.com

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  8. #8
    Registered User Dr Liftalot's Avatar
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    Seriously best combo,
    Xtend(watermelon) + Grylcer grow

    = Muscle heaven

    Try it
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  9. #9
    Funk Slap Bass ericTHEninja's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Hero28
    I asked a guy at the place i buy supps but he said they didn't do much of any thing, but I read on the forums different. Any advice?
    I am cutting at this time.
    While this is not intended as a cheapshot to anyone who works at places like GNC, 90% of the time the guys their don't know what they're talking about. The other 10% who're knowledgable are active members of this forum.

    Not to hijack the thread, but I asked the guy at GNC if he knew of anywhere to obtain dextrose b/c shipping that stuff gets expensive. He said no and that he can't even get it on the internet b/c you can use the stuff to make bombs. I proceeded to lower my head and shake it back and forth at that point.

    At least he knew it was a sugar. I asked 3 employees standing together at Vitamin Shoppe if they carried it or knew of anyone who did. First they told me they'd never heard of a supplement called dextrose (wtf!?!?!?) and then asked me who the manufacturer was.
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  10. #10
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    Originally Posted by Scivation
    Free form aminos are NOT the same. Read Derek's FAQ.
    Exactly, 5 grams of BCAA from WPI and 5 grams of BCAA from FREE form will have a different effect on protein synthesis and other things as well.
    New 5/3/1 Strength Journal:
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=152156313&p=1031620863#post1031620863
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  11. #11
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    Originally Posted by ericTHEninja
    Not to hijack the thread, but I asked the guy at GNC if he knew of anywhere to obtain dextrose b/c shipping that stuff gets expensive. He said no and that he can't even get it on the internet b/c you can use the stuff to make bombs.
    Best GNC story EVER!

    Of course, they're especially unhelpful about something like dextrose, because it's cheap and generic, therefore they can't make a ton of money off of it.
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  12. #12
    The Physique Architect str8flexed's Avatar
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    what the hell man... you can't cite my peer review

    you wanna fight?
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  13. #13
    ALLMAX NUTRITION Sixpack's Avatar
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    yes that is what I thought just wanted some opinons on it thats all.
    Thanks

    Originally Posted by Scivation
    Free form aminos are NOT the same. Read Derek's FAQ.
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  14. #14
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    [QUOTE=young_squatter]Well that guy is wrong, BCAA greatly help with recovery and help you pack on mass, well cutting there even more important, they will help you maintain and even gain lean mass well cutting. Here are a lot of articles to prove BCAA are very effective.


    Young Squatter, Some guys recommend the simple sugar with the BCAA's. I know thats not a good practice while cutting, but if not cutting, is adding dextrose to bcaa's, glutamine, and creatine during a workout more for guys with extremely high volume or is it unnecessary or even a bad practice. Some say it aids in being more anabolic.
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  15. #15
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    Wink

    Originally Posted by str8flexed
    what the hell man... you can't cite my peer review

    you wanna fight?
    Wait, wait!

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...=pubmed_docsum

    There we go. Now YS' list is complete.


    BTW--Layne, does life feel any different being a pro? Congrats again...
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  16. #16
    The Physique Architect str8flexed's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by cakedonkey
    Wait, wait!

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...=pubmed_docsum

    There we go. Now YS' list is complete.


    BTW--Layne, does life feel any different being a pro? Congrats again...
    feels damn good man. damned good.
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  17. #17
    Registered User jchrisf's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Scivation
    Xtend + Creatine is an optimal combo!
    Got some Creaform in yesterday and I love the consistancy of this stuff. The easiest creatine I've ever taken.
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  18. #18
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    Originally Posted by str8flexed
    what the hell man... you can't cite my peer review

    you wanna fight?
    lol, we could but I dont think I would win
    Also you just got your pro card so wouldnt want to hurt you so soon
    Congrats
    Last edited by young_squatter; 05-10-2006 at 04:57 PM.
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    Exercise Promotes BCAA Catabolism: Effects of BCAA Supplementation on Skeletal Muscle during Exercise

    Yoshiharu Shimomura, Taro Murakami, Naoya Nakai, Masaru Nagasaki and Robert A. Harris

    Abstract
    Branched-chain amino acids (BCAAs) are essential amino acids that can be oxidized in skeletal muscle. It is known that BCAA oxidation is promoted by exercise. The mechanism responsible for this phenomenon is attributed to activation of the branched-chain -keto acid dehydrogenase (BCKDH) complex, which catalyzes the second-step reaction of the BCAA catabolic pathway and is the rate-limiting enzyme in the pathway. This enzyme complex is regulated by a phosphorylation-dephosphorylation cycle. The BCKDH kinase is responsible for inactivation of the complex by phosphorylation, and the activity of the kinase is inversely correlated with the activity state of the BCKDH complex, which suggests that the kinase is the primary regulator of the complex. We found recently that administration of ligands for peroxisome proliferator-activated receptor- (PPAR) in rats caused activation of the hepatic BCKDH complex in association with a decrease in the kinase activity, which suggests that promotion of fatty acid oxidation upregulates the BCAA catabolism. Long-chain fatty acids are ligands for PPAR, and the fatty acid oxidation is promoted by several physiological conditions including exercise. These findings suggest that fatty acids may be one of the regulators of BCAA catabolism and that the BCAA requirement is increased by exercise. Furthermore, BCAA supplementation before and after exercise has beneficial effects for decreasing exercise-induced muscle damage and promoting muscle-protein synthesis; this suggests the possibility that BCAAs are a useful supplement in relation to exercise and sports.

    http://www.nutrition.org/cgi/content/full/134/6/1583S
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  20. #20
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    [QUOTE=Big Boi 1906]
    Originally Posted by young_squatter
    Well that guy is wrong, BCAA greatly help with recovery and help you pack on mass, well cutting there even more important, they will help you maintain and even gain lean mass well cutting. Here are a lot of articles to prove BCAA are very effective.


    Young Squatter, Some guys recommend the simple sugar with the BCAA's. I know thats not a good practice while cutting, but if not cutting, is adding dextrose to bcaa's, glutamine, and creatine during a workout more for guys with extremely high volume or is it unnecessary or even a bad practice. Some say it aids in being more anabolic.
    Unnecessary, we at scivation/primaforce believe in controlling insulin levels rather bulking or cutting to limit fat gains. Adding dextrose would spike insulin. Depends on philiosphy and also believe it or not bodytype.
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  21. #21
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    Not a fan of it either or any type of postworkout shake. Once u try the diet you will realize there is no need for one

    [QUOTE=young_squatter]
    Originally Posted by Big Boi 1906

    Unnecessary, we at scivation/primaforce believe in controlling insulin levels rather bulking or cutting to limit fat gains. Adding dextrose would spike insulin. Depends on philiosphy and also believe it or not bodytype.
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  22. #22
    I Powerlift-Forget BB'ing Big Boi 1906's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Sixpack]Not a fan of it either or any type of postworkout shake. Once u try the diet you will realize there is no need for one

    I'm starting to be a believer. Where is the book? I'm ready to buy a copy!!!

    So shakes PWO aren't necessary at all PWO???
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  23. #23
    I Powerlift-Forget BB'ing Big Boi 1906's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=young_squatter]
    Originally Posted by Big Boi 1906

    Unnecessary, we at scivation/primaforce believe in controlling insulin levels rather bulking or cutting to limit fat gains. Adding dextrose would spike insulin. Depends on philiosphy and also believe it or not bodytype.
    I'm definently listening and hearing what you and Chuck are saying. Just to play angel's advocate, why do guys like Milos suggest dextrose during the workout?

    Dayum, I feel like I've been lied to for so long about needing dextrose and whey protein pwo.

    I can see where protein powders would be beneficial for in between meal protein supplementing.

    I can say, I have tried workouts recently with and without the dextrose, bcaa, creatine, glutamine drink during and I can honestly say, I get through the workouts without dragging azz when I do have the drink.
    Last edited by Big Boi 1906; 05-11-2006 at 11:43 AM.
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