Go heavy togain mass?

[MunchkinsDad]

I know EVERYONE says you have to go heavy to gain strength/mass but when does it become too heavy not to work or to light not to grow?
If I can lift 230lbs on bench only once, how does that help build muscle? but if I can lift 150 lbs with 8-10 reps ..thats not enough to grow?
can someone explain this to me or direct me to a good informational thread on the subject?
There are so many different opinions and ideas but I am trying very hard to understand what i need to do in order to be successful at gaining some mass and strength. I do not want to go to the gym and waste my time on something that doesnt work.
Thanks!

[Hoffman]

Just stick to the 4-6 reps On compound lifts, Bench, squats dead miltary ect

On ISOlations such as EZ bar curl and tricep pushdowns go to 8-10 reps

[b0ngman]

actually i wouldnt stick to the same number of reps all the time like that. Maybe one day perform a certain exercise with 5 reps per set, then the next time you perform that exercise, up the reps to say 10 or 12 but drop the number of sets from 5 to 3. This works best for me and is def worth a try

[JNo20]

If you're trying to foster intellectual debate that's one thing.....

.....but if you're seriously trying to gain mass and are asking because you odn't know, then my response to you would be don't overanalyze this stuff. Muscle isn't made of iron, it's made of food (well, the stuff IN food anyway). So eat like a horse, and lift PROGRESSIVELY heavier within whatever rep range you select, and stick with that until the progress slows/stops.

[$AJ]

mass = food

you not growing, you not eating enough. period.

[A-rod]

Just stick to the 4-6 reps On compound lifts, Bench, squats dead miltary ect

On ISOlations such as EZ bar curl and tricep pushdowns go to 8-10 reps

Yep , i would put 185 lbs on the bar , after the warm ups you *ll get around 4-6 reps , probably ..............do a 225 lb single once in a while to build more strength !

[MunchkinsDad]

If you're trying to foster intellectual debate that's one thing.....

.....but if you're seriously trying to gain mass and are asking because you odn't know, then my response to you would be don't overanalyze this stuff. Muscle isn't made of iron, it's made of food (well, the stuff IN food anyway). So eat like a horse, and lift PROGRESSIVELY heavier within whatever rep range you select, and stick with that until the progress slows/stops.

Definately NOT trying to debate.....you are probably right and I am over analizing things.....my concern is that I do not waste my time trying so hard to build mass and strength and I am doing it wrong so it becomes a useless time waster.
On the other hand, I was working with a personal trainer for 3 months (stated in another message)and I felt he was not allowing me to reach my goals. I just started on my own in a "public" gym...I have anxiety issues in public....but before I was using a crossbar platinum machine. It wasnt enough.

After going to a public gym the 1st week I felt sore the next day after working certain body parts.
Monday I worked chest and shoulders.
Wednesday I worked tri's and back
Friday legs abs and bi's

I have not much of a clue as to how much I should do because there are way too many opposing opinions here as to how to lift.
Thus the over analyzing...

I think I am eating well considering my health issues (lots of protein and good carbs)

I want to see results and not a waste of time.
The waste of time I think was the personal trainer.

Thanks for your input.

[swillybogs]

my advice would be to find a rep range somewhere in the 5-10 area, then progressively up the weight. the key is form. when your form breaks down you are either lifting too heavy, or, doing too many reps. form is key. form is your guide.

good luck.

[prickleferret]

a wide variety of rep ranges is best. every workout i throw in some 4 and 6 rep sets. after the heavy stuff, i stay in the 8, 10, and 12 rep range. on the tail end of my workouts, i will even do one final high rep or "stinger" set of 15 to 20 reps. if you just stick to one rep range, your body is going to adapt easily to it and you will hit a plateau alot quicker. change the order of your exercises regularly and use a wide variety of rep ranges along with good solid food meals, and you have a recipe for strength and size gains.

[MoGeaYuglay]

mass = food

you not growing, you not eating enough. period.

Though that is a strong means to mass, "more food" can't just be thrown in to solve the problem. What if the guy is eating 7,500 calories a day (even extreme ectomorphs can gain weight off that much), has his macronutrient criteria nailed down to a T, yet still can't get mass? Needs more food? No way, we don't the poor fella turning into a fatass. No, there are more variables than just diet.

[mike_d]

Though that is a strong means to mass, "more food" can't just be thrown in to solve the problem. What if the guy is eating 7,500 calories a day (even extreme ectomorphs can gain weight off that much), has his macronutrient criteria nailed down to a T, yet still can't get mass? Needs more food? No way, we don't the poor fella turning into a fatass. No, there are more variables than just diet.

I dont believe that there are guys lifting like normal people, eating that much, and not growing. Unless they have some sort of medical condition in which case they should see their doctor, not the guys on the exercise forum.

[MoGeaYuglay]

I dont believe that there are guys lifting like normal people, eating that much, and not growing. Unless they have some sort of medical condition in which case they should see their doctor, not the guys on the exercise forum.

Exactly, if someone is eating even 5,000-6,000 calories a day, they will gain weight, gain mass. Training, however, is the stimulus, and it needs to be examined, reevaluated, and implemented in order to make appreciable muscular strength and size gains. Also rest time is an important factor. I'm just saying, food is not the end all answer to a bodybuilder's problems as it is made out to be in these forums.

[mike_d]

Exactly, if someone is eating even 5,000-6,000 calories a day, they will gain weight, gain mass. Training, however, is the stimulus, and it needs to be examines, reevaluated, and implemented in order to make appreciable muscular strength and size gains. Also rest time is an important factor. I'm just saying, food is not the end all answer to a bodybuilder's problems as it is made out to be in these forums.

Agreed, training is very very important. The thread starter doesnt even know the meaning of "going heavy" so blindly telling him to eat more food isnt the only advice he needs. But get him doing quality compound lifts, in a decent rep range, with a solid split, and get him eating lots of food like you described, I dont see any reason why he wouldnt grow if he stuck to it.

Its easier to plan on paper that you're going to eat 5000 calories, but its the ones who can follow through with the huge diets in real life that will grow. I just think its easier to follow through with a solid workout plan, than it is to follow through with a huge diet. Factors like money, always being stuffed, time required to bulk prepare mass quantities of food, all these factors are reasons why the majority of lifters just cant follow through on a huge diet, most succeed pretty well in lifting regularly on a good program.

[MunchkinsDad]

I would gather then that I should re-evaluate my eating habits for one thing...
I went from 260 to 217 - 220 by cutting my calorie intake but now I should eat more (quite a bit as it seems) for good positive growth.
I heard that diabetics do not add muscle very well but I would like to be able to call that a myth.
I control my diabetes very well and without frackin medication(drugs).
I will add up all I eat now and see if that is enough.
I am 6'2" so a 6,000 cal diet should work?
Thanks all for your help.

[mike_d]

I would gather then that I should re-evaluate my eating habits for one thing...
I went from 260 to 217 - 220 by cutting my calorie intake but now I should eat more (quite a bit as it seems) for good positive growth.
I heard that diabetics do not add muscle very well but I would like to be able to call that a myth.
I control my diabetes very well and without frackin medication(drugs).
I will add up all I eat now and see if that is enough.
I am 6'2" so a 6,000 cal diet should work?
Thanks all for your help.

6000 calories is a whole lot of calories. And since you're diabetic I would definately consult your doctor first. I would be careful jumping into a diet that big, that quickly.

Find out what you're eating now. How many calories, the macro breakdown, etc...

Also how long has your weight been steady? Assuming you are on maintenance calories right now (ie: you're not losing or gaining weight) then you might find out what you're eating now. Then add x calories to that amount. What 'x' is depends on your goals and how fast you want to achieve them, and how much risk is acceptable to you.

[Dissasterone]

mass = food

you not growing, you not eating enough. period.

No way man i can't agree with that.

I take in more matter then a black hole and i just can't get to 200 pounds.

Maybe im gaining 3 pounds a year or something like that???

I lift hard, eat TONS and sleep lots......., but still my metabolism is my enemy when bulking.

I need to find a way to bulk up.....maybe 8000 cals a day

LOL LOL LOL

[mike_d]

No way man i can't agree with that.

I take in more matter then a black hole and i just can't get to 200 pounds.

Maybe im gaining 3 pounds a year or something like that???

I lift hard, eat TONS and sleep lots......., but still my metabolism is my enemy when bulking.

I need to find a way to bulk up.....maybe 8000 cals a day

LOL LOL LOL

have you ever stepped back and COUNTED how much you're eating?

how many meals do you eat a day? not a "max" day, I mean consistently, day in, day out, how many meals do you eat every single day? how many grams of protein? how many total calories? whats your macro breakdown?

if you dont have the answers to these questions, you wont reach your goals anytime soon. but go ahead and ignore it, most people do and they never make any significant gains.

[spirit3530]

Exactly. I thought the same thing in the past I had no idea how little I was actually taking in. I thought I was eating huge but untill I really measured everything and wrote it down I found out. I eat between 3400 and 3600 cals right now and my diet is full of dense calories from rice oats 100 percent wheat bread to name a few (See PU bulking thread for more info). I have made gains on this diet.

So eating is important but what what you eat is what determines how much you are going to gain and where it goes.

I bet a diet under 4500 can be consumed for you average under 200lb ecto for bulking if Oats and fats are a big part of it.

I am begging for someone under 200lb under 14 percent bf trying to grow to show me a typical 6000 calorie diet they use.

[MunchkinsDad]

I eat 230g protein a day -about 2500 cal. a day- racquet ball as cardio on off days.

I still need to lose more fat but it is minimal. I dont want to be another statistic in diabetic failures and i am determined to get fit and find the right program to reach my goals.
That is where my problem lies and why i started this thread so I could learn what all of you seem to have succeeded at.
thanks so far guys...

[swillybogs]

have you ever stepped back and COUNTED how much you're eating?

how many meals do you eat a day? not a "max" day, I mean consistently, day in, day out, how many meals do you eat every single day? how many grams of protein? how many total calories? whats your macro breakdown?

if you dont have the answers to these questions, you wont reach your goals anytime soon. but go ahead and ignore it, most people do and they never make any significant gains.

This is so true. I eat more than anyone I know and assumed I was throwing down 4000 cals a day. When I went on a bulk this winter I kept track for a while and was only getting 3500-3800 on my bulk. I couldn't believe it.

[Zensuji]

No way man i can't agree with that.

I take in more matter then a black hole and i just can't get to 200 pounds.

Maybe im gaining 3 pounds a year or something like that???

I lift hard, eat TONS and sleep lots......., but still my metabolism is my enemy when bulking.

I need to find a way to bulk up.....maybe 8000 cals a day

LOL LOL LOL

if your not gaining your not eating enough, simple as that. if you think your eating loads think again

[Ross PK]

So calories help you gain muscle mass? I thought it was only protein.

[Kozma]

So calories help you gain muscle mass? I thought it was only protein.

protein is calories

this is basic physics, you cannot gain mass if you aren't eating more then you burn, regardless of if you are eating 400g's a protein a day. you need to be on a caloric surplus