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Old 04-23-2006, 07:13 PM   #1
Liquidtensi0n
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My next strength cycle: SF 5x5 and Starting Strength Hybrid

I just did some thinking and came up with my next strength routine. This will be a 5x5 and Rippetoe hybrid. I will basically leave the squats and deads as is in the 5x5 while doing upper body lifts starting strength style. Reasons for this are twofold. Rippetoe’s routine is designed for beginners who can recover from squatting all out 3x a week and doing deads on the same day as heavy squatting. I know this would bury me so I basically have no choice but to leave this as done in the 5x5. That and I responded really well to the way I trained these lifts on the 5x5 so I see no reason to mess with this.

I am hypothesizing that my upper lifts will respond better to straight sets than to ramping. The only upper lift that I had a perfect experience with on the 5x5 was the press (aka standing military) and that was done only once a week and with just a 4x5. Even with how well the previous routine worked for this lift, I still think it can benefit from straight sets so I will do this one starting strength style as well.

With the restrictions I outlined above in mind, I wasn’t really left with a whole lot of choice on how to set this up. This is what I came up with (2 weeks listed so lift rotation is obvious).

Week 1: Monday
Squat 5x5 ramping
Bench 3x5 straight
Rows 3x5 straight

Week 1: Wednesday
Squat 4x5 ramping light
Press 3x5 straight
Deadlift 4x5 ramping
Chins/Pullups 3x5-12 straight

Week 1: Friday
Squat 4x5 ramping, 1x3 weight increase, 1x8 back-off
Bench 3x5 straight
Rows 3x5 straight

Week 2: Monday
Squat 5x5 ramping
Press 3x5 straight
Chins/Pullups 3x5-12 straight

Week 2: Wednesday
Squat 4x5 ramping light
Bench 3x5 straight
Deadlift 4x5 ramping
Rows 3x5 straight

Week 2: Friday
Squat 4x5 ramping, 1x3 weight increase, 1x8 back-off
Press 3x5 straight
Chins/Pullups 3x5-12 straight

So basically this boils down to the squat and deadlift receiving the exact same treatment as they do on the SF 5x5. The other lifts are grouped into rotating workout A: bench, rows and workout B: press, chins. Why include chins with the core lifts? Since I’m not including the deadlift in the rotating workouts I needed something to fill the hole and a vertical pull seems to make sense for this.

Progression will be the same as on the 5x5 for the squat and deadlift and a toned down version of what Rippetoe recommends for the rest. I will figure out a comfortable percent to add to each lift when I get all the reps that should net out similar increases as the SF 5x5's 2.5% each week; Rippetoe's "add a lot of weight to the bar every workout" approach won't work for non-beginners.

As far as assistance goes, I will probably add situps and hypers on a day or two like in the 5x5. On the other hand, I am going to stay away from doing any direct arm work at all since both biceps and triceps are being hit with straight sets every single workout.

If you have experience with this approach to training (no split nazis please ), feel free to critique this. The only thing I see a potential issue with is Wednesday’s workout being too taxing with deads basically being thrown in on top of everything else. Another approach to this would be to do deads with only a warm-up and 1x5 like how Rippetoe treats it but to still keep it to one day a week.

Let me know what you guys think.
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Old 04-23-2006, 07:25 PM   #2
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This kind of thing is exactly what Madcow was talking about.

Good luck man!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Madcow
A cookie cutter program is just a point - if one is lucky it's somewhere near his path and at least moves him forward by some margin. Training has to evolve with the lifter and move him consistently forward on the path toward his goals.
Reference...
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/sh...&postcount=958

EDIT: About the Wednesday workout being taxing... any day with a dead lift in it is going to be taxing. Don't let that stop you!
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Last edited by VikingMan; 04-23-2006 at 07:28 PM.
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Old 04-23-2006, 08:23 PM   #3
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Looks really good I like it a lot.
The only thing that might be rough is the rows after deads on Wednesday week 2. Personally I couldn't handle that.
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Old 04-23-2006, 09:35 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadian Iron
Looks really good I like it a lot.
The only thing that might be rough is the rows after deads on Wednesday week 2. Personally I couldn't handle that.
neither could i.... if i put my 100% into deads, then rows is impossible
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Old 04-23-2006, 10:14 PM   #5
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Yea. I am having the same premonitions about that. I guess I'll give it a go and if it doesn't work out too well there are options. Oh... and I can't rep any of you at the moment lol.
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Old 04-23-2006, 11:02 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquidtensi0n
Yea. I am having the same premonitions about that. I guess I'll give it a go and if it doesn't work out too well there are options. Oh... and I can't rep any of you at the moment lol.
thats cool... but i was just thinking... instead of rows, why not do underhand JS rows....? on the OTHER days that is...?
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Old 04-23-2006, 11:20 PM   #7
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I read your entire 5x5 log and found it very interesting. I started the 5x5 workout yesterday and found it very challenging due to the amount of sets.

Well done on your gains with the previous workout.
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Old 04-23-2006, 11:30 PM   #8
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Thanks man. I'm glad my journal was helpful.
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Old 04-24-2006, 05:05 AM   #9
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This is great, liquidtensiOn keep us posted on your progress.

And I agree with everyting in that article, use a basic program, see how it works for you, and then tweek it...

Madcow2;
Like I said though, the "5x5" program you used is still a data point. If it worked well for you, then it is only because it is on your 'path' and moved you 'forward' at a faster rate than what you've been doing. This is just good training. Your training will have to evolve and change as you progress, but that doesn't mean that you shouldn't take a good look at that program and understand exactly why it worked (focus on increasing big lifts to drive muscle gains not on 'working a certain muscle', proper use of frequency, management of fatigue, progressive overload, appropriate volume for you at this point in time). In reality the '5x5' here is just a snapshot of what an intro to periodization program might look like. The version a beginner would start with is not structed like that, the version that might be optimal for someone further down the road will be changed too. Lots of alterations in between those 3 points.

Enough said!!!
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Old 04-24-2006, 05:21 AM   #10
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They really know their stuff at elitefitness.com...
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