the difference between natural and normal bbers

[Anabolism1000]

One of the problems I have with natural bodybuilding is that it gives me the impression that these athletes don't want to take the risks to do what they have to do to take their bodies to the ultimate level by using all the tools available to them. Sort of like playing it safe, and then expecting the same level of respect.

Take auto racing as an analogy. The winner is usually the driver who takes the most risks, and drives the fastest, but sometimes these drivers make mistakes, and get hurt, and sometimes they even die. But that's the price sometimes of being the best, and pushing the envelope.

Natural bb's seem to be playing it safe. They want the best of both worlds: physique glory, and great health, with as little risk as possible. You've got IFBB bb's taking all kinds of risks and doing whatever it takes to have the type of physique that entertains the fans and wins contests. But like the race car drivers, sometimes they die trying to win the race. They are revered, by people in the know, because these people know what they've had to do to get where they are. Does a natural bb take any risk at all?

[Quelly]

One of the problems I have with natural bodybuilding is that it gives me the impression that these athletes don't want to take the risks to do what they have to do to take their bodies to the ultimate level by using all the tools available to them. Sort of like playing it safe, and then expecting the same level of respect.

Take auto racing as an analogy. The winner is usually the driver who takes the most risks, and drives the fastest, but sometimes these drivers make mistakes, and get hurt, and sometimes they even die. But that's the price sometimes of being the best, and pushing the envelope.

Natural bb's seem to be playing it safe. They want the best of both worlds: physique glory, and great health, with as little risk as possible. You've got IFBB bb's taking all kinds of risks and doing whatever it takes to have the type of physique that entertains the fans and wins contests. But like the race car drivers, sometimes they die trying to win the race. They are revered, by people in the know, because these people know what they've had to do to get where they are. Does a natural bb take any risk at all?

wow...just wow....bodybuilding in some people's minds has truly changed into something else in my opinion....the risk of death is not what bodybuilding is about....bodybuilding existed before diuretics and anabolic steroids...what kind of values are we following in our morals here? do whatever it takes to win no matter what, and if you kill yourself in the process you are a hero to be worshipped?

[Anabolism1000]

wow...just wow....bodybuilding in some people's minds has truly changed into something else in my opinion....the risk of death is not what bodybuilding is about....bodybuilding existed before diuretics and anabolic steroids...what kind of values are we following in our morals here? do whatever it takes to win no matter what, and if you kill yourself in the process you are a hero to be worshipped?

Bodybuilding is about taking the body to the ultimate. All sports have risks from football players becoming quadraplegics, to baseball players getting beaned, to fighters dying in the ring. Risk versus reward. Look at the popularity of Ultimate Fighting. Do you think fans would be interested in UF if they went into the ring and just sparred? Would that be worthy of admiration?

Natural bodybuilding and fitness training still exists as an option. If that's someone's idea of what bbing is about, then that option exists. No one is forcing anyone to do what it takes to become the ultimate bber. The reality is that many drugs were discovered to have a positive effect on the creation of amazing physiques, and they were adopted into the sport. And that's what it takes to develop the physiques that entertain the fans and puts some cash in the pockets of the bbers (not enough cash, but that's another topic).

[Quelly]

i'm not disputing anything you said just now, but only what you said in the post I quoted....sure steroids can be used safely, but you were venerating those who took enough drugs to risk death, the safety of steroids is not the issue.

And sure all sports have their risks, but that's also not the issue. Anyway, its the skill primarily, not the risk that people want to watch....people wouldnt stop respecting baseball if somehow the risk of getting beaned could be removed...its an element, but your post made it seem like it was a vital component.

And if that's what you like about bodybuilding just be glad you werent a bbing fan in the early days, when it was about health, and drugs werent around yet...there wasnt any risk, it was about who had the most impressive body...the risk was only losing.

[str8flexed]

One of the problems I have with natural bodybuilding is that it gives me the impression that these athletes don't want to take the risks to do what they have to do to take their bodies to the ultimate level by using all the tools available to them. Sort of like playing it safe, and then expecting the same level of respect.

Take auto racing as an analogy. The winner is usually the driver who takes the most risks, and drives the fastest, but sometimes these drivers make mistakes, and get hurt, and sometimes they even die. But that's the price sometimes of being the best, and pushing the envelope.

Natural bb's seem to be playing it safe. They want the best of both worlds: physique glory, and great health, with as little risk as possible. You've got IFBB bb's taking all kinds of risks and doing whatever it takes to have the type of physique that entertains the fans and wins contests. But like the race car drivers, sometimes they die trying to win the race. They are revered, by people in the know, because these people know what they've had to do to get where they are. Does a natural bb take any risk at all?

so we aren't working hard because we don't want to jeapardize our health?

GIMME A ****IN BREAK

[mm312740]

One of the problems I have with natural bodybuilding is that it gives me the impression that these athletes don't want to take the risks to do what they have to do to take their bodies to the ultimate level by using all the tools available to them. Sort of like playing it safe, and then expecting the same level of respect.

Take auto racing as an analogy. The winner is usually the driver who takes the most risks, and drives the fastest, but sometimes these drivers make mistakes, and get hurt, and sometimes they even die. But that's the price sometimes of being the best, and pushing the envelope.

Natural bb's seem to be playing it safe. They want the best of both worlds: physique glory, and great health, with as little risk as possible. You've got IFBB bb's taking all kinds of risks and doing whatever it takes to have the type of physique that entertains the fans and wins contests. But like the race car drivers, sometimes they die trying to win the race. They are revered, by people in the know, because these people know what they've had to do to get where they are. Does a natural bb take any risk at all?

WHAT???

how about all those natural bodybuilders who have more going on in their lives than bodybuilding? they dont deserve respect because they want to be healthy and live long enough to see their kids grow up? natural bodybuilding is a lot more similar to what bodybuilding was originally designed for, displaying a healthy physique.

You bet your ass im playing it safe, you may not respect me, but ive got way to much to live for...

[musclehead5428]

[QUOTE=str8flexed]how many natural shows have you competed in?

I have been involved with natural bodybuilding for over 5 years now and help some of the orgs with their banned substances list. You need to not comment on things that you are completely ignorant about.

As far as saying there are no impressive natural bodybuilders... I beg to differ
#2and#5 are the only naturals i see lol. i see people compete in natural shows all the time who are not natural .

[MoGeaYuglay]

I really want to see more 5'10+ 220+ natural bodybuilders out there (yes, that's 220+ on the day of the contest) Is it really that difficult to get insanely huge for several years then cut down naturally, given warranting genetics? I'm natural myself, and would very much like to remain as such, but I want something more than these physiques i'm seeing in the natural realm. Why arn't there more Skip LaCours so-to-speak.

[str8flexed]

[QUOTE=musclehead5428]

how many natural shows have you competed in?

I have been involved with natural bodybuilding for over 5 years now and help some of the orgs with their banned substances list. You need to not comment on things that you are completely ignorant about.

As far as saying there are no impressive natural bodybuilders... I beg to differ
#2and#5 are the only naturals i see lol. i see people compete in natural shows all the time who are not natural .

you f*cking people

let me get this straight... if the guys actually look natural... they suck right?

but if they don't look natural they must be lying?

you guys are f*cking morons

[coldfusion71]

so we aren't working hard because we don't want to jeapardize our health?

GIMME A ****IN BREAK

what he is saying is wrong but on the other hand you and others who are happy to be natural which is a good thing. you guys come of as self righteous and very judgemental its great that youa re natural but you harp on it way too much. i dont see people who use steriods promoting themselves in that manner, in my mind you get no extra points or kudos for being natural .

[str8flexed]

where in this thread or this section have i said one negative thing about steroid users? please show me?

[kethnaab]

not that layne needs my help, but he is NOT self-righteous when it comes to steroid use.

some people are. they are critical and condescending toward steroid users. to layne's credit, he does NOT do this.

I'd say that he is "pro-natural" rather than "anti-steroid". There is a HUGE difference.

[coldfusion71]

where in this thread or this section have i said one negative thing about steroid users? please show me?

i am not specifically talking about this thread i am talking about the way you come off along with other people who like to tout that they are natural, when in reality it doesnt even matter.

[kethnaab]

in reality, layne doesn't "come off" like anything.

[CHOFFA $TYLE]

Seriously, flexed, just dont even reply to some of these incedibly uneducated posts

True bodybuilders realize the sacrifices, and the hard work competative bodybuilders put in, juice, or no juice...Its as simple as that

[MoGeaYuglay]

Seriously, flexed, just dont even reply to some of these incedibly uneducated posts

True bodybuilders realize the sacrifices, and the hard work competative bodybuilders put in, juice, or no juice...Its as simple as that

I wholely concur.

[coldfusion71]

in reality, layne doesn't "come off" like anything.

iyes he does he comes off as very arrogant you may not see it but i see the way he talks to certain people. i could care less of how you think he is, i am talking about my own personal observations.

[KnightTemplar]

LOL on juicing being normal, but anyway having competed first as a natural in non-tested shows (there weren't really many natural shows around when I started competing) and later competing with pharmaceuticals, I personally have found the main difference to be that during dieting AAS make hanging on to the lean tissue much easier.
I have seen many natural guys that looked so much more impressive off season than in contest condition, simply because they had such a hard job not losing muscle whilst dieting.

[Anabolism1000]

i'm not disputing anything you said just now, but only what you said in the post I quoted....sure steroids can be used safely, but you were venerating those who took enough drugs to risk death, the safety of steroids is not the issue.

And sure all sports have their risks, but that's also not the issue. Anyway, its the skill primarily, not the risk that people want to watch....people wouldnt stop respecting baseball if somehow the risk of getting beaned could be removed...its an element, but your post made it seem like it was a vital component.

And if that's what you like about bodybuilding just be glad you werent a bbing fan in the early days, when it was about health, and drugs werent around yet...there wasnt any risk, it was about who had the most impressive body...the risk was only losing.

I'm not "venerating" those who take steroids, just saying that that's what it takes to display the kind of physique that entertains and lines the pocket. Reality is what it is, so bodybuilders have a choice to make, get with the program, or don't get with the program, and if you don't get with the program, you're not doing what it takes, and you'll never achieve "the look."

Back in the early days, and I'm not sure how far back you mean, but it must be before the Olympia existed, those physiques were as impressive as the juiced physiques are today. You didn't have every Tom, Dick, and Harry, in every gym across the country (and in fact not that many gyms existed like today) using juice. The pro bber has to stay ahead of the guy in the gym, and always will no matter what it takes. The "natural" bber is like the guy in the gym, physique-wise, so what makes him interesting or marketable? It's like someone with one foot in the water and one foot out.

Maybe they should call natural bbing "Body Shaping" or "Body Ripping" because there's not enough building going on to hold interest. JMO.

[Anabolism1000]

WHAT???

how about all those natural bodybuilders who have more going on in their lives than bodybuilding? they dont deserve respect because they want to be healthy and live long enough to see their kids grow up? natural bodybuilding is a lot more similar to what bodybuilding was originally designed for, displaying a healthy physique.

You bet your ass im playing it safe, you may not respect me, but ive got way to much to live for...

Of course they do deserve respect, just as "Tommy Toner" in the gym deserves the same respect, but not respect as having the greatest physiques.

I don't disrespect you for playing it safe, but what's the difference between you and Phil Fishoil in the local gym? If someone "has too much to live for," then bbing is not important enough. I see folks like this in my gym every day, and I see no reason to drop to my knees with awe and reverence because of their physiques, but as decent people raising families, working difficult jobs, and finding the time to take care of their bodies.

[HG_IRON]

i think it sucks all the sh** that we naturals have to put up with and yet we don't get half the respect or publicity. i'm not dissing "normal" bodybuilding i love the sport but it's very frustrating not being able to get to the top without putting my health at risk. as for those who imply that being natural = lack of dedication or commitment. walk a mile in the shoes of someone who is competing against cheats, losing and then being pushed to use steroids just to keep up and still manages to remain natural.
i respect and admire coleman
but i equally respect and admire skip

most ppl don't

[HG_IRON]

Of course they do deserve respect, just as "Tommy Toner" in the gym deserves the same respect, but not respect as having the greatest physiques.

I don't disrespect you for playing it safe, but what's the difference between you and Phil Fishoil in the local gym? If someone "has too much to live for," then bbing is not important enough. I see folks like this in my gym every day, and I see no reason to drop to my knees with awe and reverence because of their physiques, but as decent people raising families, working difficult jobs, and finding the time to take care of their bodies.

what the hell? you're comparing natural bodybuilders to "tommy toner"! you think we don't train our asses off like you, sure we aren't as big but for **** sake! it's not easy for us, we make sacrifices to we just don't saccrifice our health!

[str8flexed]

i am not specifically talking about this thread i am talking about the way you come off along with other people who like to tout that they are natural, when in reality it doesnt even matter.

obviously it does or people wouldn't continuously bring it up or ask pros how much drugs they are on.

and anabolism... you are just ignorant bro, sorry.

[Anabolism1000]

what the hell? you're comparing natural bodybuilders to "tommy toner"! you think we don't train our asses off like you, sure we aren't as big but for **** sake! it's not easy for us, we make sacrifices to we just don't saccrifice our health!

I just meant in the sense that both groups are training naturally. Natty bbers have better physiques, but just more of the same. A better version of Tommy Toner if you will. And you know this is just my opinion.

[Anabolism1000]

obviously it does or people wouldn't continuously bring it up or ask pros how much drugs they are on.

and anabolism... you are just ignorant bro, sorry.

Right, and if I saw things the way you do, I would no longer be ignorant, right.

In life, you got things the way they are, and you've got things the way you wish they could be. The first is called "reality," the second is called "denial."

Take care.

[Team Benchpress]

nope... just you

ok if im just quoting my sources, then its not really ignorant of me, it means im turning to credible sources. if i say the sh!t i said u call me ignorant, but if some bigger guy says it u tell me he's not ignorant, how does that work? stop feeding the bodybuilder stereotype and use your brain. ill take their word over yours, due to the size difference, i know and dont care that u dont believe me.

[Team Benchpress]

Careful pardner...talk like that has been known to inspire aggression in big guys who are "unnatural" :P

i was referring to the fact that if i posted names and these guys were approached in real life things may get out of hand, is that not common sense?

[kethnaab]

ill take their word over yours, due to the size difference,

so because they use steroids and layne doesn't, that makes their opinion more viable?



see, I have no problem whatsoever with steroid use. I think steroids should be legal for prescription use.

but the idiocy really astounds me. but hey, whatever.

[Team Benchpress]

for the love of God people, even all cyclists arent natural, lots of top pros in almost any sport except golf use the sauce. im not saying all u natural guys sauce out there, i just say i know some guys in the industry who are able to see things that a lot of us dont.

[Team Benchpress]

so because they use steroids and layne doesn't, that makes their opinion more viable?



see, I have no problem whatsoever with steroid use. I think steroids should be legal for prescription use.

but the idiocy really astounds me. but hey, whatever.

its not because they juice that their opinion is more valuble, its because they are more honest, they have nothing to hide. "natural guys" (reffering to the cheaters NOT ALL OF THEM) are not honest, they claim to be natural while they arent. for the love of god even TOM PRINCE was on these boards saying the same things i am, are u going to argue with him? goodluck. i respect both forms of bodybuilding as long as people are HONEST and dont make excuses for themselves.