Protein: 1g per lb detrimental?

[GM_muscle]

I was talking to a friend of mine who is going into nutrition, and he told me that you are supposed to take 1g of protein per KG of bodyweight per day, not 1g per pound. He said that if you take 1g per lb of bodyweight, you would be poisoning yourself. That your body could not handle that much over a long period of time. I weigh 200lbs and he recommended that I get around 100g of protein per day instead of 200. This guy has taken about 7 nutrition classes so far, and I trust his supplement knowledge. What are your opinions on taking 1g per lb?

[BigBenn]

for the typical person, yes he is right. But for athletes like us who are beating the heck out of our skeletal muscles we need the extra protein for repair. BTW poison is a build-up of a toxic substance in the body, protein will not "build up" it will be excreted when you take a pisser.

[GM_muscle]

He said you would be working your kidneys way too hard.

[Icex999]

Originally posted by LS1muscle
He said you would be working your kidneys way too hard.

he's wrong

[Icex999]

From BrinkZone.com

Myth #1 "Athletes don't need extra protein"

I figured we should start this myth destroying article off with the most annoying myth first. Lord, when will this one go away? Now the average reader person is probably thinking "who in the world still believes that ridiculous statement?" The answer is a great deal of people, even well educated medical professionals and scientists who should know better, still believe this to be true. Don't forget, the high carb, low fat, low protein diet recommendations are alive and well with the average nutritionist, doctor, and of course the "don't confuse us with the facts" media following close behind. For the past half century or so scientists using crude methods and poor study design with sedentary people have held firm to the belief that bodybuilders, strength athletes of various types, runners, and other highly active people did not require any more protein than Mr. Potato Head.....err, I mean the average couch potato. However, In the past few decades researchers using better study designs and methods with real live athletes have come to a different conclusion altogether, a conclusion hard training bodybuilders have known for years. The fact that active people do indeed require far more protein than the RDA to keep from losing hard earned muscle tissue when dieting or increasing muscle tissue during the off season.

In a recent review paper on the subject one of the top researchers in the field (Dr. Peter Lemon) states "...These data suggest that the RDA for those engaged in regular endurance exercise should be about 1.2-1.4 grams of protein/kilogram of body mass (150%-175% of the current RDA) and 1.7 - 1.8 grams of protein/kilogram of body mass per day (212%-225% of the current RDA) for strength exercisers."

Another group of researchers in the field of protein metabolism have come to similar conclusions repeatedly. They found that strength training athletes eating approximately the RDA/RNI for protein showed a decreased whole body protein synthesis (losing muscle jack!) on a protein intake of 0.86 grams per kilogram of bodyweight. They came to an almost identical conclusion as that of Dr. Lemon in recommending at least 1.76g per kilogram of bodyweight per day for strength training athletes for staying in positive nitrogen balance/increases in whole body protein synthesis.

This same group found in later research that endurance athletes also need far more protein than the RDA/RNI and that men catabolize (break down) more protein than women during endurance exercise.

They concluded "In summary, protein requirements for athletes performing strength training are greater than sedentary individuals and are above the current Canadian and US recommended daily protein intake requirements for young healthy males." All I can say to that is, no sh%# Sherlock?!

Now my intention of presenting the above quotes from the current research is not necessarily to convince the average athlete that they need more protein than Joe shmoe couch potato, but rather to bring to the readers attention some of the figures presented by this current research. How does this information relate to the eating habits of the average athlete and the advice that has been found in the lay bodybuilding literature years before this research ever existed? With some variation, the most common advice on protein intakes that could be-and can be- found in the bodybuilding magazines by the various writers, coaches, bodybuilders, etc., is one gram of protein per pound of body weight per day. So for a 200 pound guy that would be 200 grams of protein per day. No sweat. So how does this advice fair with the above current research findings? Well let's see. Being scientists like to work in kilograms (don't ask me why) we have to do some converting. A kilogram weighs 2.2lbs. So, 200 divided by 2.2 gives us 90.9. Multiply that times 1.8 (the high end of Dr. Lemon's research) and you get 163.6 grams of protein per day. What about the nutritionists, doctors, and others who call(ed) us "protein pushers" all the while recommending the RDA as being adequate for athletes? Lets see. The current RDA is 0.8 grams of protein per kilogram of bodyweight: 200 divided by 2.2 x 0.8 = 73 grams of protein per day for a 200lb person. So who was closer, the bodybuilders or the arm chair scientists? Well lets see! 200g (what bodybuilders have recommended for a 200lb athlete) - 163g ( the high end of the current research recommendations for a 200lb person) = 37 grams (the difference between what bodybuilders think they should eat and the current research). How do the RDA pushers fair? Hey, if they get to call us "protein pushers" than we get to call them "RDA pushers!" Anyway, 163g - 73g = (drum role) 90 grams! So it would appear that the bodybuilding community has been a great deal more accurate about the protein needs of strength athletes than the average nutritionist and I don't think this comes as any surprise to any of us. So should the average bodybuilder reduce his protein intake a bit from this data? No, and I will explain why. As with vitamins and other nutrients, you identify what looks to be the precise amount of the compound needed for the effect you want (in this case positive nitrogen balance, increased protein synthesis, etc) and add a margin of safety to account for the biochemical individuality of different people, the fact that there are low grade protein sources the person might be eating, and other variables. So the current recommendation by the majority of bodybuilders, writers, coaches, and others of one gram per pound of bodyweight does a good job of taking into account the current research and adding a margin of safety. One things for sure, a little too much protein is far less detrimental to the athletes goal(s) of increasing muscle mass than too little protein, and this makes the RDA pushers advice just that much more.... moronic, for lack of a better word.

There are a few other points I think are important to look at when we recommend additional protein in the diet of athletes, especially strength training athletes. In the off season, the strength training athletes needs not only adequate protein but adequate calories. Assuming our friend (the 200lb bodybuilder) wants to eat approximately 3500 calories a day, how is he supposed to split his calories up? Again, this is where the bodybuilding community and the conservative nutritional/medical community are going to have a parting of the ways... again. The conservative types would say "that's an easy one, just tell the bodybuilder he should make up the majority of his calories from carbohydrates." Now lets assume the bodybuilder does not want to eat so many carbs. Now the high carb issue is an entirely different fight and article, so I am just not going to go into great depth on the topic here. Suffice it to say, anyone who regularly reads articles, books, etc, >from people such as Dan Duchaine, Dr. Mauro Dipasquale, Barry Sears PhD, Udo Erasmus PhD, yours truly, and others know why the high carb diet bites the big one for losing fat and gaining muscle (In fact, there is recent research that suggests that carbohydrate restriction, not calorie restriction per se, is what's responsible for mobilizing fat stores). So for arguments sake and lack of space, let's just assume our 200lb bodybuilder friend does not want to eat a high carb diet for his own reasons, whatever they may be. What else can he eat? He is only left with fat and protein. If he splits up his diet into say 30% protein, 30 % fat, and 40% carbs, he will be eating 1050 calories as protein (3500x30% = 1050) and 262.5g of protein a day (1050 divided by 4 = 262.5). So what we have is an amount (262.5g) that meets the current research, has an added margin of safety, and an added component for energy/calorie needs of people who don't want to follow a high carb diet, hich is a large percentage of the bodybuilding/strength training community. here are other reasons for a high protein intake such as hormonal effects (i.e. effects on IGF-1, GH, thyroid ), thermic effects, etc., but I think I have made the appropriate point. So is there a time when the bodybuilder might want to go even higher in his percent of calories >from protein than 30%? Sure, when he is dieting. It is well established that carbs are "protein sparing" and so more protein is required as percent of calories when one reduces calories. Also, dieting is a time that preserving lean mass (muscle) is at a premium. Finally, as calories decrease the quality and quantity of protein in the diet is the most important variable for maintaining muscle tissue (as it applies to nutritional factors), and of course protein is the least likely nutrient to be converted to bodyfat. In my view, the above information bodes well for the high protein diet. If you tell the average RDA pusher you are eating 40% protein while on a diet, they will tell you that 40% is far too much protein. But is it? Say our 200lb friend has reduced his calories to 2000 in attempt to reduce his bodyfat for a competition, summer time at the beach, or what ever. Lets do the math. 40% x 2000 = 800 calories from protein or 200g (800 divided by 4). So as you can see, he is actually eating less protein per day than in the off season but is still in the range of the current research with the margin of safety/current bodybuilding recommendations intact.

Bottom line? High protein diets are far better for reducing bodyfat, increasing muscle mass, and helping the hard training bodybuilder achieve his (or her!) goals, and it is obvious that endurance athletes will also benefit from diets higher in protein than the worthless and outdated RDAs.

[Icex999]

Myth #2 "High protein diets are bad for you"

So the average person reads the above information on the protein needs and benefits of a high protein diet but remembers in the back of their mind another myth about high protein intakes. "I thought high protein diets are bad for the kidneys and will give you osteoporosis! " they exclaim with conviction and indignation. So what are the medical facts behind these claims and why do so many people, including some medical professionals and nutritionists, still believe it? For starters, the negative health claims of the high protein diet on kidney function is based on information gathered from people who have preexisting kidney problems. You see one of the jobs of the kidneys is the excretion of urea (generally a non toxic compound) that is formed from ammonia (a very toxic compound) which comes from the protein in our diets. People with serious kidney problems have trouble excreting the urea placing more stress on the kidneys and so the logic goes that a high protein diet must be hard on the kidneys for healthy athletes also. Now for the medical and scientific facts. There is not a single scientific study published in a reputable peer - reviewed journal using healthy adults with normal kidney function that has shown any kidney dysfunction what so ever from a high protein diet. Not one of the studies done with healthy athletes that I mentioned above, or other research I have read, has shown any kidney abnormalities at all. Furthermore, animals studies done using high protein diets also fail to show any kidney dysfunction in healthy animals. Now don't forget, in the real world, where millions of athletes have been following high protein diets for decades, there has never been a case of kidney failure in a healthy athlete that was determined to have been caused solely by a high protein diet. If the high protein diet was indeed putting undo stress on our kidneys, we would have seen many cases of kidney abnormalities, but we don't nor will we. From a personal perspective as a trainer for many top athletes from various sports, I have known bodybuilders eating considerably more than the above research recommends (above 600 grams a day) who showed no kidney dysfunction or kidney problems and I personally read the damn blood tests! Bottom line? 1-1.5 grams or protein per pound of bodyweight will have absolutely no ill effects on the kidney function of a healthy athlete, period. Now of course too much of anything can be harmful and I suppose it's possible a healthy person could eat enough protein over a long enough period of time to effect kidney function, but it is very unlikely and has yet to be shown in the scientific literature in healthy athletes.

So what about the osteoporosis claim? That's a bit more complicated but the conclusion is the same. The pathology of osteoporosis involves a combination of many risk factors and physiological variables such as macro nutrient intakes (carbs, proteins, fats), micro nutrient intakes (vitamins, minerals, etc), hormonal profiles, lack of exercise, gender, family history, and a few others. The theory is that high protein intakes raise the acidity of the blood and the body must use minerals from bone stores to "buffer" the blood and bring the blood acidity down, thus depleting one's bones of minerals. Even if there was a clear link between a high protein diet and osteoporosis in all populations (and there is not) athletes have few of the above risk factors as they tend to get plenty of exercise, calories, minerals, vitamins, and have positive hormonal profiles. Fact of the matter is, studies have shown athletes to have denser bones than sedentary people, there are millions of athletes who follow high protein diets without any signs of premature bone loss, and we don't have ex athletes who are now older with higher rates of osteoporosis. In fact, one recent study showed women receiving extra protein from a protein supplement had increased bone density over a group not getting the extra protein! The researchers theorized this was due to an increase in IGF-1 levels which are known to be involved in bone growth. Would I recommend a super high protein diet to some sedentary post menopausal woman? Probably not, but we are not talking about her, we are talking about athletes. Bottom line? A high protein diet does not lead to osteoporosis in healthy athletes with very few risk factors for this affliction, especially in the ranges of protein intake that have been discussed throughout this article.

[Lonny]

Originally posted by LS1muscle
I was talking to a friend of mine who is going into nutrition, and he told me that you are supposed to take 1g of protein per KG of bodyweight per day, not 1g per pound. He said that if you take 1g per lb of bodyweight, you would be poisoning yourself. That your body could not handle that much over a long period of time. I weigh 200lbs and he recommended that I get around 100g of protein per day instead of 200. This guy has taken about 7 nutrition classes so far, and I trust his supplement knowledge. What are your opinions on taking 1g per lb?

I think your friend is just going to become another uninformed idiot giving the wrong advice to people.

If i were you i would never listen to your friend again and instead do your own research on questions you have.

[goblin6]

Your friend is wrong it has been shown Icex999, I was going to post the same two articles, glad someone beat me to it. Nice job.

[Gene]

Originally posted by Lonny
I think your friend is just going to become another uninformed idiot giving the wrong advice to people.

If i were you i would never listen to your friend again and instead do your own research on questions you have.

Some of the more brilliant words I have heard in some time.

Gene

[sizz]

Originally posted by LS1muscle
...This guy has taken about 7 nutrition classes so far, and I trust his supplement knowledge...

Funniest thing I read today

[Blashy]

Originally posted by Icex999
he's wrong

Carefull with that comment.

Protein surplusses do work the kidneys harder than usuall and can be harmfull.

Now if you're a hardcore athlete, you definitly need big time protein and you will be using it so no worries.

But if you're not, don't go eating like one.

My wife has kidney disease so I'm quite familiar with kidneys and protein. FYI, my wife can't eat more than 32g of protein per day, simply because her kidneys would deteriorate more.

[Blashy]

Being scientists like to work in kilograms (don't ask me why)

This is off topic but I just have to answer this one.

ACCURACY, the metric system blows away inches and pounds in terms of accuracy and is a better working mathematical system.

That's why the rest of the world has gone to the metric system but the US Government just decided not to, funny thing is they work in the metric system when it comes to everything science. Maybe someday they'll get on with it.

[str8flexed]

Originally posted by LS1muscle
I was talking to a friend of mine who is going into nutrition, and he told me that you are supposed to take 1g of protein per KG of bodyweight per day, not 1g per pound. He said that if you take 1g per lb of bodyweight, you would be poisoning yourself. That your body could not handle that much over a long period of time. I weigh 200lbs and he recommended that I get around 100g of protein per day instead of 200. This guy has taken about 7 nutrition classes so far, and I trust his supplement knowledge. What are your opinions on taking 1g per lb?

i'm in class right now...i'll explain why your friend is an idiot when i get back.

[str8flexed]

Originally posted by Blashy
Carefull with that comment.

Protein surplusses do work the kidneys harder than usuall and can be harmfull.

Now if you're a hardcore athlete, you definitly need big time protein and you will be using it so no worries.

But if you're not, don't go eating like one.

My wife has kidney disease so I'm quite familiar with kidneys and protein. FYI, my wife can't eat more than 32g of protein per day, simply because her kidneys would deteriorate more.

just becuse something works the system harder does not mean it's detrimental. by the same token, insulin release puts a strain on the pancreas...should we not eat carbs then...are they poisonous? Lifting strains the nervous system and the muscular system...should we then not lift...are we poisoining ourself by doing that?
you should learn to think outside the box.

[Biggin]

If I had 130 g protein per day I would shrivel up and blow away. There is something to be said for proper hydration, of course as well as proper nutrient ratios... aside from milk and juice with supps, I consume at least a gallon and a half of water every 24 hours, and I always check out a-ok... of course just slamming down protein would lead to problems... good posts.

[GM_muscle]

Originally posted by sizz
Funniest thing I read today

Awwww. You don't have to post a reply like that. It just pisses people off. Oh. You're all the way in Japan. No wonder you feel safe

[str8flexed]

the 1g per kg is alright for the average coach potato, but not for an intense lifter. Muscle is protein (essentially) when you overload it, it is degraded (microtears) and amino acids are used to repair it and make it bigger and stronger. These amino acids come from your amino pool...depleting it. If you are not ingesting enough amino acids (protein) then you will be deficient in aminos most likely leading to comprimised muscle growth. One then needs extra aminos to repair the muscle and replete the amino pool. So for someone who cares little for muscle growth and sits in front of the TV all day 1g/kg is fine to maintain a good balance. For someone who lifts hard though...you will be in severe amino acid deficiency.
Peace

o btw, your friend may be into nutrition...but I am a biochem major, just so you don't think i'm pulling this stuff out of my ass

[GM_muscle]

Originally posted by str8flexed
the 1g per kg is alright for the average coach potato, but not for an intense lifter. Muscle is protein (essentially) when you overload it, it is degraded (microtears) and amino acids are used to repair it and make it bigger and stronger. These amino acids come from your amino pool...depleting it. If you are not ingesting enough amino acids (protein) then you will be deficient in aminos most likely leading to comprimised muscle growth. One then needs extra aminos to repair the muscle and replete the amino pool. So for someone who cares little for muscle growth and sits in front of the TV all day 1g/kg is fine to maintain a good balance. For someone who lifts hard though...you will be in severe amino acid deficiency.
Peace

o btw, your friend may be into nutrition...but I am a biochem major, just so you don't think i'm pulling this stuff out of my ass

I need to find a friend who is going into biochemistry

[shaolin]

Proteinuria

Healthy kidneys take wastes out of the blood but leave in protein. Impaired kidneys may fail to separate the protein from the wastes. Proteinuria means protein in the urine, and it is a sign of poor kidney function. If your urine makes foam in the toilet, it may contain high levels of protein. Your doctor may test for protein using a dipstick in a small sample of your urine taken in the doctor's office. The color of the dipstick indicates the presence or absence of proteinuria. For a more precise measurement, you may need to collect urine for 24 hours

This was taken from webmd.com. If your kidneys are not working at full capacity then you might have problems. we will need a lot of protein because we put our muscles in a catabolic state after we workout. They have a lot of information at webmd.com about protein and when it is bad. just thought this might be helpful.