If you are a newcomer to the weights looking to add muscular bodyweight, read this

[kethnaab]

Kethnaab,
Could we alternate between cleans and rows? Say for week one were go A,B,A could I do Cleans on monday and pendlays on friday? Or would that hamper my goal?

both exercises are outstanding. I would recommend you pick one and focus on it, but both exercises do great things for your upper back and shoulder girdle strength, so although it wouldn't be "ideal", IMHO, it would work

I'd prefer you stick to one for at least 2-3 weeks at a time, then switch

[iBswole]

will do.
I'll stick with power cleans for 2 more weeks.
But I'm thinking of adding pendlays for workout A, and doing cleans during workout B. Would that work?
Also
I've noticed gains throughout especially my legs - but is squats 3x a week viable? It kills when I do my daily cardio in the morning.

[kethnaab]

doing hard cardio is VERY VERY difficult on a Rippetoe or 5x5 program. They are mass and strength building programs. you can do cardio, but do it nice and easy.

as for the rows, you should be able to get away with it. give it a try, if you feel worn out, then you'll know it was a mistake, just drop 'em and you should be fine.

[Tad_T]

Keth,

I wanted to be able to do the core program as Rippetoe laid it out in the book. I like both rows and power cleans. I wanted to get the benefits of both. I thought a lot on how to include both in the program without messing up the core lifts of the original program. I read the book and I read some other articles where he discusses programming and accessory work.

This is what I came up with and have been doing for the past 7 weeks. I do the exercises in the order listed.

Workout 1

Core lifts
Squats = warmup then 3 x 5
Bench = warmup then 3 x 5
Deadlift = warmup then 1 x 5

Accessory Work
Dips = 3 sets
Pendlay rows = warmup then 3 x 5
Abs = 3 sets

Workout 2

Core lifts
Squats = warmup then 3 x 5
Overhead press = warmup then 3 x 5
Power clean = warmup then 3 x 5

Accessory work
Pullups = 3 sets
Abs = 3 sets

This variation is working well for me. I am adding weight very workout and have yet to stall on anything. I started conservatively and have followed Rip's recommended progression on the lifts. I have forced myself to be patient and I have passed my previous PRs (since I started back training after a 2 year layoff) and am setting new ones every workout. I keep reminding myself to not get greedy and I will eventually work back up to the level I used to be at.

I am also running everyday. I worked into that slowly. I run 20 minutes at a steady pace on weight days after I lift and I do a HIIT run on non-weight days. I am running about 15 miles a week.

You are right, it is tough. I think that if you did not work up to it you could bury yourself fairly quickly and stall on everything.

If you want to get the best out of this program, I think that it really pays to be patient.

[vincenzo234]

i only can't understand one thing. This type of program worked perfect for me but so many people say that i am overtraining because i bench 2 times and squat 3 times per week with low reps , large weights. Every article for beginners says you must not work bench and squat more than one time in a week. If a one can clear my mind of this question i would be glad.

[Canadian Iron]

i only can't understand one thing. This type of program worked perfect for me but so many people say that i am overtraining because i bench 2 times and squat 3 times per week with low reps , large weights. Every article for beginners says you must not work bench and squat more than one time in a week. If a one can clear my mind of this question i would be glad.

Explanation here:
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpo...74&postcount=4

[latrell]

whats the difference between this and Mark Riptoes Starting Strength?

[Tad_T]

whats the difference between this and Mark Riptoes Starting Strength?

The actual Starting Strength routine as designed by Mark Rippetoe includes only these lifts:

Workout 1

Squats = warmup then 3 x 5
Bench = warmup then 3 x 5
Deadlift = warmup then 1 x 5

Workout 2

Squats = warmup then 3 x 5
Overhead press = warmup then 3 x 5
Power clean = warmup then 3 x 5

[Xarmyboi187]

The actual Starting Strength routine as designed by Mark Rippetoe includes only these lifts:

Workout 1

Squats = warmup then 3 x 5
Bench = warmup then 3 x 5
Deadlift = warmup then 1 x 5

Workout 2

Squats = warmup then 3 x 5
Overhead press = warmup then 3 x 5
Power clean = warmup then 3 x 5

i would like to try these workouts, this one here, or the first one, that the guy modifyed.

but i have bum knee.
it doesent bother me on lifts, but my legs are much much weaker then they use to be, weaker then the average person.

so what should i change? just not lift so heavy?

im just scared to go to heavy, or the hole squats 3x's a week might be to much being that my legs are SO undertrained right now

[Canadian Iron]

so what should i change? just not lift so heavy?

im just scared to go to heavy, or the hole squats 3x's a week might be to much being that my legs are SO undertrained right now

Just start extra light, like perhaps only the bar.
Add 5 lbs per workout.
Good luck!

[latrell]

Workout A
3x5 Squat
3x5 Bench Press
1x5 Deadlift
**2x8 Dips (if you cant do these or no assist machine then do Decline Dumbbell Bench Press with your hands Facing each other)

Workout B
3x5 Squat
3x5 Standing military press
3x5 Pendlay or Bent Rows (or power cleans)
**2x8 Chin-ups (recommended mainly if doing the cleans)

Assistance work:

Most people cant get it through there head that compound lifts also work your arms Plenty and always Insist on direct arm work. As quoted by Madcow2, “Don't **** with this. Every bodybuilder seems to have Attention Deficit Disorder and an overwhelming desire to customize everything.” If you are one of these people note that you have the option of doing the dips and chins which give PLENTY of arm work. Abdominal work is fine to do also if needed.


its the exact same thing...

[latrell]

power cleans/rows.

Theres the post by Matta14, the Riptoe thread. Its the exact same man, exact same.

[latrell]

I dont know who copied and pasted it into a thread, but whatever is on this program is the exact same as that thread.

[Tad_T]

Latrell,

You asked what the difference was. The program in my post where I replied to you in answer to your question was the actual program that came from page 193 of the Book "Starting Strength" that was written by Mark Rippetoe. It did not come from a thread on this board. None of the "Rippetoe threads" on this board contain the exact same program and/or the plan of progression as the book does.

The actual "Starting Strength" program that was designed by Mark Rippetoe consists of only these exercises:

Workout 1

Squats = warmup then 3 x 5
Bench = warmup then 3 x 5
Deadlift = warmup then 1 x 5

Workout 2

Squats = warmup then 3 x 5
Overhead press = warmup then 3 x 5
Power clean = warmup then 3 x 5

There are no rows nor are there any accessory or auxillary exercises in the original program that is laid out in the book.

Every routine on this board that has been referred to as the "Rippetoe program" is a variation of the original Starting Strength program. That includes the variation that I made up and that I do. None of them are the "exact" same as the program that Rip laid out.

[kethnaab]

Matta114 or whatever his name is PM'ed me awhile back and asked if he could take one of my original Rippetoe thread explanations and make his own. I didn't really understand why, but I said "sure, why not"

hence the multiple posts with essentially similar information.

the "row vs. clean" argument is essnetially a bodybuilder one. Madcow took the original 5x5 and stuck in rows in place of cleans. I did the same with Rippetoe's program to make it more "bodybuilder friendly"

I recommended adding chinups and/or dips instead of direct arm work mostly to appease the peeps who say "hey, where's the arm work?"

[latrell]

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...ghlight=riptoe

posted 1.5 months before this thread. So these two are the exact same?

[DaveGabe24]

I have been looking for a new routine to work on, preferably a four day split since I have the time, like lifting, and love intensity. I came across this workout, maybe it's better than a four day split? Are there any other really popular routines out there for putting on mas? Rippetoe seems to be the one I see most.

[latrell]

read my thread, its in my signature.

[vincenzo234]

which one is more useful do you think pyramiding the bench and squat or do all 3 sets with the same weights.

185*5
225*5
270*5

or

225*5
225*5
225*5

?

[GSP]

which one is more useful do you think pyramiding the bench and squat or do all 3 sets with the same weights.

185*5
225*5
270*5

or

225*5
225*5
225*5

?

The straight sets are a higher workload and a better option if work capacity isn't an issue. I'd absolutely start with the straight 3X5, then reserve the option of ramped sets for later on if fatigue starts catching up with you and you need to control workload.

[Sockomalo]

Bump


great thread, great info. i dont know if i'll be following the workout exactly, but good tips on exercises and nutrition. im going to try deloading the weight between reps for my barbell rows tomorrow

[Xarmyboi187]

im gonna try this one today after work, a lil worryed though cuz of my knee, and the fact that my job is sorta physical, but ill write and give feed back!

great thread!

[Andrew.Cook]

im gonna try this one today after work, a lil worryed though cuz of my knee, and the fact that my job is sorta physical, but ill write and give feed back!

great thread!

Start with what you can. Go as heavy as you feel you can, for now, but not so heavy that you will injure yourself. I also have a bum knee (old football injury... as cliche as it is) and I have actually found that heavy squats and deads actually seem to help. I did start out very light when I first got back into squats, but I've seen rapid and significant growth.

[Xarmyboi187]

i also saw an improvement now that ive been doing squats and such, i got hurt a year ago while in the army, and dident touch my legs other then running, untill about 4mounths ago, and ive seen great improvements.
just hope i can get my legs back up to 26inchs

[vincenzo234]

And one last question : what can we do when we want to change the exercises? I mean we can't squat to the end of life. I have been working with this program for 2 months. Do you guys think changing time comes? For ex. if i change bench with incline bench and squat with leg press and other exercises with common exercises working the same part will it be ok?

Most importantly i want to do barbell rows instead of pendlay rows does it make any change in progress?

[VikingMan]

If you can physically perform the squat, don't change it. They are very important and should stay a central part of your training until you have WAY outgrown the Rippetoe program, at which point you sometimes have to branch out to continue progressing. But even then, you wouldn't start using a leg press. The leg press doesn't load your torsoe like a squat, and so is an incompatible exercise.

[DemonDeacon]

Awesome thread, and workout. I'm completely new when it comes to weightlifting, I do cardio (running and cycle classes) 2-3 times a week. So I think I'm going to work these in with the cardio I do currently. A few questions I've had, sorry if they're dumb questions or if they've been discussed ad nauseum:

-I'm wanting to lose body fat, I'm eating well already, is this a good system to lose body fat?

-The situps recommended in this thread, I feel like when I incline up to parallel with the floor, my back is doing all the work until I hold the incline for 5 seconds? Is this bad or this how this exercise is intended?

-Trying my first pendelay rows Wed morning (started the workout Sunday, cardio today, tomorrow is an off day). I'm glad they've replaced cleans in this workout, as I never see anyone in my gym doing cleans, and as a novice think people would look at me weird. Do lots of people do these in gyms? I workout at the local YMCA.

-Also, I'm doing deadlifts for the first time and it's with a free weight machine instead of a bar. Is this bad? Any change in technique with this kind of thing?

Thanks!

[Canadian Iron]

No machines at all, period, especially for deadlifts. You should buy the book so you can be sure you are doing the exercises correctly, it is really a valuable asset for anyone.

[DemonDeacon]

The machine I used the other day looked like this: http://www.strengthequipment.net/pic...lift_adjht.jpg

I'm using light weights and reading up alot on here to make sure I'm keeping my back straight and how to do the exercises. I may buy the book as well.

[TKD]

Good post.
Very creepy watching that deadlift vid though - that guys runs around very unnaturally lol