Time for a New Bicep routine

[buttandlegs]

Do any of you guys have a bicep routine that you would like to share with me that you believe is good for growth. I change my routine so much that I'm running out of ideas. Thanks in advance.

[Sunshineslynn]

What is your current bi workout? Are you lifting heavy heavy, changing up the reps from low to high. What about grip differences, close, wide, reverse? Are you using straight bar or ez?

smiles
s

[slums attack]

lately i've been doing my biceps twice a week, but never when working out my back. I use only 2 excrs. ez curl bar close grip i do around eight reps increasing the weight with each set, and i do inclince bench dumbell curls also increasing weight with each set for 3 set total. Gives me a great pump. It also seem like enough to get a really good workout for biceps without overtraining them.

[Sunshineslynn]

Originally Posted by slums attack

lately i've been doing my biceps twice a week, but never when working out my back. I use only 2 excrs. ez curl bar close grip i do around eight reps increasing the weight with each set, and i do inclince bench dumbell curls also increasing weight with each set for 3 set total. Gives me a great pump. It also seem like enough to get a really good workout for biceps without overtraining them.

Make sure to vary the workout when working them 2x a week. Dont do the same thing for example I work mine 2x week on first day preacher bb curls with alt curls then 2nd day double cable curls with reverse grip curls and so on. and go really heavy on one day and lighter the other.

smiles
s

[buttandlegs]

I do bi's once or twice a week. I go both heavy and light. I do these exercises (not in this order or all together)

Alternating dumbell curl/dumbell curl, not alternating
barbell curl
ez-bar curl
incline curl/incline hammer curl
drop-set concentration curls
close-grip reverse grip pull ups

I just don't feel it anymore like I used to. And my growth is definetly lagging.

[Sunshineslynn]

Originally Posted by buttandlegs

I do bi's once or twice a week. I go both heavy and light. I do these exercises (not in this order or all together)

Alternating dumbell curl/dumbell curl, not alternating
barbell curl
ez-bar curl
incline curl/incline hammer curl
drop-set concentration curls
close-grip reverse grip pull ups

I just don't feel it anymore like I used to. And my growth is definetly lagging.

Try some reverse curls, cable curls, preacher curls. Try doing some 21's to break it up which are killer. Try drop set on bb curl wide grip 3sets of 10.

smiles
s

[Titania]

A few things to consider if you are hitting a plateau -

* Drop your light bicep days altogether

* Stick with the free weight exercises. They are superior for building mass.

* Look at your nutrition. Are you eating more than you were? When you get bigger, you need more calories than you used to need.

* Do you include heavy free weight movements for your back? Some of the best back AND bicep builders are reverse grip barbell rows, chinups and pullups, dumbells rows (twisting the dumbell 90 degrees as you row REALLY works the biceps).

[pumpster]

IMO you're doing way too many sets. Less is more-put more intensity into 7-9 sets total, 2-3 exercises. 1 rest max. between sets, go to failure or more on most sets.

-Standing cable curls
-Preacher cable curls
-Spider curls

Disregard any of the popular misconceptions about free weights being better; cables and well-designed machines are as good, sometimes better. Try for yourself.

At other times, try compound supersets and tri-sets of 2 or 3 consecutive biceps exercises, 2-3 superset/tri-set cycles.

E-Z curl bars are good for triceps, not as good as straight bars for bis. Reverse curls amount to doing more curl work than is needed for bis, try doing wrist curls instead of adding reverse curls.

[Titania]

Originally Posted by pumpster

IMO you're doing way too many sets. Less is more-put more intensity into 7-9 sets total, 2-3 exercises. 1 rest max. between sets, go to failure or more on most sets.

-Standing cable curls
-Preacher cable curls
-Spider curls

Disregard any of the popular misconceptions about free weights being better; cables and well-designed machines are as good, sometimes better. Try for yourself.

At other times, try compound supersets and tri-sets of 2 or 3 consecutive biceps exercises, 2-3 superset/tri-set cycles.

E-Z curl bars are good for triceps, not as good as straight bars for bis. Reverse curls amount to doing more curl work than is needed for bis, try doing wrist curls instead of adding reverse curls.

I agree with you about too many sets. Less is more (as long as you keep the intensity up by working HARD) especially for biceps.
However, I disagree with you about machines and cables. They are good for defining and refining muscles once the mass is built but for building a solid foundation, NOTHING beats free weights.
I also used to believe that EZ bars were inferior to straight bars for biceps but that is not necessarily true either. Some people have a very hard time going heavy with a straight bar because of the pressure placed on the wrists. EZ bars can allow much greater stimulus simply because the biceps can be worked without stressing the wrists.

[pumpster]

The idea that free weights are somehow better is one of those fallasies that has been propogated for decades, dating back to early 20th century. A big perceptual advantage that continues.

Cables & well-designed leverage machines such as leverage hammer-strength are often better, depending on the exercise.

Any motion that follows an arcing path shows the weakness of free weights- since there's no tension on the muscle at the top and little at the bottom of the motion. Examples of this shortcoming include any form of free weight curl, fly and dumbbell pullover. It is because of this that most leg curl machines don't use plates but rather, cables.

Pullovers are arguable the single best lat exercise. The best version of this by popular concensus is the machine pullover, a favorite of Dorian Yates. Thanks to the constant tension and the fact the arms are completely removed from the equation, it's considered the gold standard of pullovers, considerably better than the free weight version.

On the weakness of standing and preacher curls, here's an article by someone named Ronnie Coleman. I give him credit for arriving at the same conclusion I did. Free weights are often over-rated but are popular because of convention, in-the-box thinking. Bottom line, for either size or cutting is feeling it in the muscle:
http://www.trulyhuge.com/ronniecolemanworkout.htm

The *best* preacher curl motion I use is from a low cable. The best I've ever used was a well-designed preacher leverage machine-the quality of the exercise varies considerably by brand. Each brand has machines that it has designed better than others.

Well-designed pec decks are often better than dumbbell flys. However many of the pec decks aren't well designed, such as the old Nautilus version, and hit the shoulders too much rather than the chest.

[Titania]

I appreciate your opinion Pumpster but my own personal experience has proven otherwise for me.
In my 13 years of training, I have used almost every conceiveable machine there is in a gym today including Hammer Strength, Nautilus, Life Fitness and many others. I have also done pretty much every well known and some less known free weight and cable exercises too.
I have made BY FAR the most progress of my career so far with nothing but a barbell, a pair of dumbells, a power rack and high and low pulleys. I went as far as cancelling ALL my gym memberships and spending the money on professional olympic equipment for my home gym.
In the past two years of training, my strength on many of my lifts has tripled, my bodyweight has gone from 140 lbs to 176 lbs and my arms have grown from 14 inches to 16.5 inches.
The one area I do agree with you on is cable exercises. I include cable exercises in my routine but the foundation is always heavy compound free weight exercises.
Just ask Dorian Yates which exercise is his favourite lat movement. *hint - he even went as far as dubbing it 'his exercise'* ..... Yes, it is the Yates grip barbell row. Interestingly, it has also been the most effective lat exercise I have EVER done. Machine pullovers were completely useless for me and I did them long and hard enough to know.
Watch any of Ronnie Colemans training videos and you'll see him hauling massive poundages on FREE WEIGHT exercises. The man can military press what I barbell row!!! I have seen him train in the gym in person and I can tell you that his core power movements are with free weights. Sure he adds in machines to finish things off AFTER he's hammered his muscles with free weights.

[pumpster]

Thanks for your opinions. I've worked out for over 3 decades on every possible machine, including those that were custom made before designs were mass-marketed. Also worked out in my teens with guys who placed in the Universe, saw what they were doing.

Bottom line from experience, is FEEL. All the pros know it. That's what Coleman was talking about with curls-of course gains are made with free weights but what I'm talking about and what he's espousing is max. EFFECTIVENESS, what creates the best feel and hits fibers the best!

Some well-designed machines and cables RULE. It's simply a matter of being open-minded. Guys like Coleman, Yates, Vince Taylor & Larry Scott agree with moi...

Yates LOVES the machine pullover, bicep & tricep machines. You mentioned the barbell rows he does-did you know that he used and supports the Hammer leverage row machine to the extent that they named their machine after him? There goes your theory about machines!

As far as pullovers, many consider the pullover the best single exercise, with the leverage machine version being the best, which my experience agrees with.

[Titania]

Originally Posted by pumpster

Thanks for your opinions. I've worked out for over 3 decades on every possible machine, including those that were custom made before designs were mass-marketed. Also worked out in my teens with guys who placed in the Universe, saw what they were doing.

Bottom line from experience, is FEEL. All the pros know it. That's what Coleman was talking about with curls-of course gains are made with free weights but what I'm talking about and what he's espousing is max. EFFECTIVENESS, what creates the best feel and hits fibers the best!

Some well-designed machines and cables RULE. It's simply a matter of being open-minded. Guys like Coleman, Yates, Vince Taylor & Larry Scott agree with moi...

Yates LOVES the machine pullover, bicep & tricep machines. You mentioned the barbell rows he does-did you know that he used and supports the Hammer leverage row machine to the extent that they named their machine after him? There goes your theory about machines!

As far as pullovers, many consider the pullover the best single exercise, with the leverage machine version being the best, which my experience agrees with.

OK ..fine you are entitled to your opinions and I am entitled to mine. I KNOW what works best for me and it is these exercises that have given me multiple Australian powerlifting records and numerous titles in only ONE YEAR of competing. I am open minded and always keen to try something new if I haven't done it before. That is how I have arrived at the point I am at now.
FOR ME, free weights rule and are currently giving me the best gains of my career so far. There are literally infinite variations on movements that can be done with free weights and I am always staying fresh with my workouts by exploring things that are not necessaily 'the norm'.
If machines work best for you, go for it. Whatever works FOR YOU. If I find myself stagnating on free weights some time down the track (possibly after I reach at least 200 lbs) I will explore other avenues. Until then, I am sticking with what is working BY FAR the best for me.
I don't simply follow what everyone else does because they do it. I want to know how and why they do what they do. Then I think about things and apply my own creative process to the picture and EXPERIMENT. That is how I have discovered (and will continue to rediscover) new methods of gaining strength and muscle mass.
The true innovators are the ones that know how to come up with new thoughts instead of just repeating old thoughts.
I am not trying to tell you that you are wrong. What works for YOU is best for YOU. What works for me is TOTALLY different and works best for ME.
I am inspired by others who have achieved great things and will take on board their knowledge, sifting through it and taking parts of it to inspire new thoughts and ideas for my won training but I will NOT blindly follow somebody just because they say "Do this, it works". That was fine when I was starting out but it doesn't work for me now.

[pumpster]

Sure, but what you've left out is context: those who are blindly following convention and aren't open minded are the large numbers who happen to follow your beliefs. I think that context is rather important.

Also, your tenor, in which you keep saying that i'm not wrong-that in itself is suggestive of a close-minded mentality on your part, maybe now you'll see it.

The open-minded, like Yates & Coleman, espouse anything that works best ;-)

[terracotta]

Titania -

I have a squat rack, barbell, an adjustable bench, and dumbells only

I have a question, I currently do db pullovers, and it is quite awkward to get sufficient weight up there, in addition to fearing dropping it - with what you are saying, could I drop the db pullovers and just do yates row for the lats? Is there anything else freeweight that is helpful for lats?

[Titania]

Originally Posted by pumpster

Sure, but what you've left out is context: those who are blindly following convention and aren't open minded are the large numbers who happen to follow your beliefs. I think that context is rather important.

Also, your tenor, in which you keep saying that i'm not wrong-that in itself is suggestive of a close-minded mentality on your part, maybe now you'll see it.

The open-minded, like Yates & Coleman, espouse anything that works best ;-)

Enough already...I am not here to get into a p!ssing contest with you. LISTEN to what I have read and you will see that I am promoting open mindedness. I find free weights BY FAR the most productive for me. There is nothing subjective about that. It is a FACT FOR ME. If you don't like free weights, DON'T USE THEM. It is simple.
I have my reasons for what I do and I have my reasons for promoting ideas to inspire others. I am a little tired of some of the bullsh!t going round by supposedly knowledgeable trainers though. All that does is confuse some people. Mainly beginners who are looking for assistance.
Some of my nutritional ideas are FAR from mainstream and are quite controversial because of the utter garbage promoted by industries like the dairy industry and the soy and grain industry.
Many of the things I suggest to my clients are also somewhat unconventional but THEY WORK and my trainees get RESULTS and they learn to think for themselves in the process.
So, unless you know my full background and the training methods I use and explore, DO NOT JUMP TO CONCLUSIONS.
Be happy with your theories and enjoy the results you are getting in the process and I will do the same.

BTW - what happened to your reputation?

[Titania]

Originally Posted by terracotta

Titania -

I have a squat rack, barbell, an adjustable bench, and dumbells only

I have a question, I currently do db pullovers, and it is quite awkward to get sufficient weight up there, in addition to fearing dropping it - with what you are saying, could I drop the db pullovers and just do yates row for the lats? Is there anything else freeweight that is helpful for lats?

Dumbell pullovers can be a great lat builder but not if you are not confident with the exercise. You could always try the same thing with your barbell. It may feel safer and more controllable for you. It is best to do these on a decline bench as this will keep the tension on your lats through a MUCH greater range of motion.
Yates rows have given me some of the best lat development I have ever experienced and my lats were lagging a lot from years of machine only work (OK, so I exaggerated a little there but I couldn't resist LOL ) Make sure you pull the weight right into your abs and squeeze your shoulder blades together HARD. No need to bend over too far either. That just places more stress on your lower back.
Another great movement, particularly for upper lats is this -
* place your barbell high up in your squat rack
* place your bench back a little from the bar (If you place your hands on the bar and your knees on the bench, your body should be at an angle of around 45 degrees with your tummy towards the floor)
* While in that position, raise up on your toes and bend your knees
* perform wide grip pullups (palms away from you) in that position (it is the equivalent of an assisted pullup)

[buttandlegs]

Thanks everyone for their responses. I actually don't do all those excersises in one workout. I do mostly free weights. I workout at home most of the time and don't have access to machines.

The pullups I like. I can do 25 full pullups with perfect form.....after that there's a lot of bouncing around.
I do like your biceps, Titania. They're not just big, but also shapely and defined.

Thanks again.

[Titania]

Originally Posted by buttandlegs

Thanks everyone for their responses. I actually don't do all those excersises in one workout. I do mostly free weights. I workout at home most of the time and don't have access to machines.

The pullups I like. I can do 25 full pullups with perfect form.....after that there's a lot of bouncing around.
I do like your biceps, Titania. They're not just big, but also shapely and defined.

Thanks again.

Thanks Buttandlegs
Glad to hear you don't do all that in one workout!! Great work with the pullups too.

[pumpster]

For lats some of the best with a bench:

-Dumbbell or barbell rows, while lying face down on the bench. Prop one or both ends of the bench up if more clearance is needed.
-Decline pullovers, as I've mentioned previously.

As far as machine work, there are wide variations in their effectiveness. A user can tell quickly, in a couple of workouts at most, whether the equipment's worthwhile.

Anyone who stays with an ineffective lifting protocol-machines or otherwise, for years on end and then blames the equipment actually has only themselves to blame for not knowing to find something better.

[terracotta]

Thank you Titania ... I'll work those into my routine.. my lats need lots of help

[pumpster]

You're more than welcome.

Another one, IF the squat racks are stable:

-Put the bar across the racks, do chins. You can always put your feet on a chair if they're initially to hard to do.

[buttandlegs]

Who needs magazines when we got expert advice from people that have been training for years and have learned through trial and error?

[Titania]

Originally Posted by terracotta

Thank you Titania ... I'll work those into my routine.. my lats need lots of help

You're welcome TC.
Glad to see pumpster agrees with me on some exercises. He's even suggested some of the same things I did too like the squat rack chins. As he has mentioned, dumbell rows are also a great lat builder. Something else to try with the dumbell rows is experimenting with supination just like you would if you were doing a dumbell curl. Don't do it every workout but add it in sometimes for some variation and to really hit your biceps as well.

[Titania]

Originally Posted by pumpster

........Anyone who stays with an ineffective lifting protocol-machines or otherwise, for years on end and then blames the equipment actually has only themselves to blame for not knowing to find something better.

Subtle pal. Any more of the personal digs and you'll be taking a break from here to consider your actions next time.... and don't bitch to me about abusing my rights as a moderator. That will only make things worse for you. Post your opinions in a considerate manner and respect the opinions of others.
Like I said, if machines work for you then great, use them. But show a little respect for my experience and my personal opinion on machines. They are simply nowhere near close to free weights for me. End of story.

[pumpster]

edit - I warned you!

[fit123]

I feel really stupid but I have to ask...how do you perform "yates rows"? I think I might know but I'm not sure...

are they the reverse barbell rows to the middle of the chest bent over with your upperbody parallel to the floor?

[Titania]

Yates rows are done with a reverse grip but I do them almost upright, about 10 to 20 degree bend forward. I pull the bar into my waist and squeeze my shoulders together HARD (picture squeezing a golf ball between your shoulder blades at the top of the movement). Make sure you do NOT shrug the weight up though. Use your lats to do the work.

[terracotta]

there is a good explanation of them on the stumptuous website here:

http://www.stumptuous.com/cms/displa...le.php?aid=121

I'll be trying them today .. and I've thought about it, I am going to try holding on to both end of the dumbbell when doing pullovers (I have olympic db bars, and the ends extend way past the plates) and see how that goes.

[Titania]

Originally Posted by terracotta

there is a good explanation of them on the stumptuous website here:

http://www.stumptuous.com/cms/displa...le.php?aid=121

I'll be trying them today .. and I've thought about it, I am going to try holding on to both end of the dumbbell when doing pullovers (I have olympic db bars, and the ends extend way past the plates) and see how that goes.

Sounds like we have similar dumbells. I just got a brand new pair of olympic dumbells for my home gym last week and LOVE them.
Great link too. The description of the Yates barbell row on that page is pretty much identical to the way I do them.