Deadlift lower than squat ?

[Tank94]

Hi everybody

I was just wondering if it really is normal that my deadlift is about 60 lbs. weaker than my squat ? I know larger people are supposed to be better in squats then deadlift, but 60 pounds ?


Thanks

[Danimal]

Usually, for a raw lifter who has that much difference, they learn that they are not squatting deep enough.

[Tank94]

Honestly, I take my squat ass to grass pretty much. Nothing higher than 90 degrees.

[Phillip Wylie]

There are several factors to consider. The thicker you are in the waist the harder to get down to the bar or harder to get in a good position to deadlift. Another is the length of your arms. The shorter your arms the more of a leverage disadvantage. It also could have something to do with your technique. Some people grip the bar too wide.

[Tank94]

Those are real possibilities. I do not have very long arms, and I'm pretty thick in the waist region. But being a former hockey goalie, I have pretty good flexibility. Is that a factor when it comes down to reaching the bar ? Cause I dont have that much trouble getting ahold of the bar. My technique may be flawed though. I only gained technique by watching videos and pro strongman doing it live. I've never had anybody telling me my flaws and such.

Thanks for the useful comment. I'll be watching this.

[f00t]

maybe you should just squat the weight up. sounds simple right? it's not

[Tank94]

Hmm what d'you mean ?

[f00t]

i'm assuming that you pull conventional since you're talking about wanting to copete instrongman in 2008. i know that strongmen are only allowed to pull conventional but have a look as some good sumo pullers as an example:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VvSB34UI2-g
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KdYFCIVHstU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9QEyDlJP6Hc

watch those videos and you'll see what i mean when i say "squat the weight up." they are very upright, don't use as much back, and push the weight up with their legs.

i am not saying that you should switch to sumo. far from it. what i am saying is work on staying much more upright and pushing with your legs instead of pulling with your back

[Dukus]

Pull with your legs not just your back.

[Phillip Wylie]

Originally Posted by Tank94

Those are real possibilities. I do not have very long arms, and I'm pretty thick in the waist region. But being a former hockey goalie, I have pretty good flexibility. Is that a factor when it comes down to reaching the bar ? Cause I dont have that much trouble getting ahold of the bar. My technique may be flawed though. I only gained technique by watching videos and pro strongman doing it live. I've never had anybody telling me my flaws and such.

Thanks for the useful comment. I'll be watching this.

You can be flexible and your waist could keep you from getting in a good position. One way to fix that type of problem is by going with a wider stance. You want to keep the bar close to your body. Conventional deadlifting is easier to master than sumo, but people have technique issues just the same. Make sure to deadlift in flat soled shoes. I see people all the time deadlifting in running shoes or other athletic shoes with a heel. Make sure to keep your head and chest up and don't start with the bar too far in front of you. You should start the bar where your laces are tied on your shoes.

Watching deadlifting videos are good. That can really help.

[Tank94]

I have long thought I was using my back too much and not my legs enough. Those videos definately made me see it clearly. Thanks guys, I'll be working on using my legs more. Those comments were definately helpful. Thanks again

[Phillip Wylie]

Also don't jerk the bar just get a good grip and pull.

[Phillip Wylie]

Originally Posted by Tank94

I have long thought I was using my back too much and not my legs enough. Those videos definately made me see it clearly. Thanks guys, I'll be working on using my legs more. Those comments were definately helpful. Thanks again

Make sure to keep the bar close to your body and keep your weight on your heels. If the bar is too far out in front of you, you will use your back more. Also focus on driving your feet through the floor.

[freeride88]

Originally Posted by Tank94

Honestly, I take my squat ass to grass pretty much. Nothing higher than 90 degrees.

ATG and 90 degrees are miles apart. Maybe take a video and get a fresh look at your depth.

[UHCougar05]

I know mine is, but that's just because I'm a gear cheater and I wear double ply everything.

[Leathalx]

you must have a long torso and short legs some people are just built like that....

I would much rather be in your position then having a huge dead and a weak squat

[bigred90]

the best thing to do is film both your deadlift and squat, then we can easily tell you.

[f00t]

Originally Posted by UHCougar05

I know mine is, but that's just because I'm a gear cheater and I wear double ply everything.

pffff you double ply amateur. ace on ace is where it's at. 6 ply get with the program.

[HSP10]

For me, my deadlift is right around par with my squat. (see sig)

[UHCougar05]

Originally Posted by f00t

pffff you double ply amateur. ace on ace is where it's at. 6 ply get with the program.

I had enough trouble getting my vikings under my ace. As soon as I get close to the 9s, I'll think about ace on ace. Although the metal pro bencher I use is a custom job with a super scoop neck and a piece of denim grid stitched to the chest plate.

[Tank94]

Originally Posted by freeride88

ATG and 90 degrees are miles apart. Maybe take a video and get a fresh look at your depth.

Like I said, mine's ATG. I just said I never go higher than 90 degrees because a high squat is a useless squat.

I'll try to get a video as soon as possible. Thanks everybody

[Tank94]

Originally Posted by UHCougar05

I know mine is, but that's just because I'm a gear cheater and I wear double ply everything.

I see you use gear. Do you train with gear or do you only use them for meets or comps ? Also does gear give you a very big advantage to achieve your PRs ? Does it add like 50 lbs. to your PR ? I've never used shirts or suits, are they really necessary ?

[bigred90]

Originally Posted by Tank94

I see you use gear. Do you train with gear or do you only use them for meets or comps ? Also does gear give you a very big advantage to achieve your PRs ? Does it add like 50 lbs. to your PR ? I've never used shirts or suits, are they really necessary ?

well i got my first squat suit 3 weeks ago or so. Its single ply, and so far ive gotten 80lbs out of it, looking for more as i get used to it. Usually you'll train with a suit when getting rdy for a meet, and even when getting rdy for a meet you dont train with the straps all the time. They are necessary if you want to compete as a geared lifter. If your just lifting for strength and fun, i wouldn't spend the money. If you want to compete as a raw, duh you wouldnt get any gear. If you want to compete with gear, then yes, gear is necessary. Shirts and suits also help with injury prevention. Dont get me wrong, if you arent careful, using a shirt or suit can be worse, but when training smart, the suit will take less stress off the hips, and the shirt on your shoulders.

[UHCougar05]

Originally Posted by Tank94

I see you use gear. Do you train with gear or do you only use them for meets or comps ? Also does gear give you a very big advantage to achieve your PRs ? Does it add like 50 lbs. to your PR ? I've never used shirts or suits, are they really necessary ?

I normally only really train in full gear during meet prep (12-16 weeks before the meet) and go in minimal gear through the rest of the year, except for possibly squat briefs and a bench shirt every now and again.

I'd be lying if I said gear didn't give me a big advantage in achieving PRs, but those PRs are separate from my true raw PRs.(Wanted to emphasize that )

As for how much it adds to your lifts, that's totally dependant on how good you are with the gear and if it fits you well. As for me, my raw squat and bench are in the neighborhood of 545-570 and 315-325 on any given day. My best gym squat is 705 in suit and briefs and my best gym bench in a shirt is 455. So, that can give you an idea of the carryover from raw to geared.

Are they necessary? No, not really. You can lift with just a belt in a singlet if you prefer. I wouldn't recommend advanced gear unless you would be training with someone who knew what they were doing. I choose to lift in the gear I do because I enjoy it and I know my competitors are doing the same. In other words, I'm not going to bring a knife to a gun fight.

[f00t]

Originally Posted by UHCougar05

As for how much it adds to your lifts, that's totally dependant on how good you are with the gear and if it fits you well. As for me, my raw squat and bench are in the neighborhood of 545-570 and 315-325 on any given day. My best gym squat is 705 in suit and briefs and my best gym bench in a shirt is 455. So, that can give you an idea of the carryover from raw to geared.

wow, you get crap all out of your briefs and suit. i get that much out of just my ace bottoms. but, then again, you get alot more out of your shirt. you can show me how to bench in a shirt when i get to rhodestown

but i only have a standard open back dd to bench in. i feel so emasculated now by your custom pro bencher. don't look at me i'm not worthy of that shirt, lol.

i'm curious though, how do you structure your ME squat and bench workouts? is the the usual switch up every week?

[strongman963]

Originally Posted by UHCougar05

I know mine is, but that's just because I'm a gear cheater and I wear double ply everything.

socks too?

[freeride88]

Originally Posted by f00t

wow, you get crap all out of your briefs and suit. i get that much out of just my ace bottoms. but, then again, you get alot more out of your shirt. you can show me how to bench in a shirt when i get to rhodestown

You get 130-150lbs out of Ace briefs?

[f00t]

well, yeah. so far i've gotten an easy 125lbs out of my ace straps down (ace bottoms, same as ace briefs) after a full on 1 1/2 hour squat workout.

seriously, those numbers aren't big. there are a **** ton of people who get much more than me out of gear. you just have to use it all the time so you know the ins and outs of it.

[UHCougar05]

Originally Posted by f00t

wow, you get crap all out of your briefs and suit. i get that much out of just my ace bottoms. but, then again, you get alot more out of your shirt. you can show me how to bench in a shirt when i get to rhodestown

but i only have a standard open back dd to bench in. i feel so emasculated now by your custom pro bencher. don't look at me i'm not worthy of that shirt, lol.

i'm curious though, how do you structure your ME squat and bench workouts? is the the usual switch up every week?

Well, the past few weeks, we've really just been working up in the suit and shirt. I decided to add boards in the shirt this last week to save the pop from the shirt and get used to the weight. It's been more prog overload with the weight on both ME SQ and Bench workouts and just getting more time in the gear.

For ME SQ, I've been working up in the gear to my opener (705). I'll probably try and hit 90% of my opener this Sunday. As for bench, I'll probably hit me bench opener this next week or so. I understand about the standard DD, that's my backup shirt.

Originally Posted by strongman963

socks too?

socks, underwear...Hell, I'm such a gear whore, I only use multi-ply toilet paper.

[Tank94]

Well my problem just got worse, but its kinda good thing.

I made my new PR yesterday by making a 500 lbs. raw squat. This makes an even more huge difference between my deadlift and my squat.

I really need to work my deadlift.

I'm gonna try to achieve a 600 lbs. raw squat before turning 18 tho'