Just been reading a few articles about this mans training routines and what he advises people. if you read about him you know what im talking about.
Anybody ever tried this type of training "H I T" basically all he does is 3 workouts per week lasting 30minutes but trains with high intensity.
Anybody ever tried and tested this theory to bodybuilding ?
If so what results did you see ?
Was you doing it with a proper nutritional program and adequate rest ?
I actually do more of the 1hr - 1hr15 mins sessions with the rep range of 8-10 reps getting heavier weight most sets doing between 3-4 sets per execise and about 14-16 sets for each big body part and 9-12 for smaller muscles
Anyway I was thinking of startin this program just want your views on it if you have ever tried and tested this program by Mike Mentzer...
03-25-2006, 01:10 PM #1
Mike Mentzer's High Intensity Training
03-25-2006, 01:28 PM #2
don't use it, please, lol, stick with your other program, eat more if your not gaining mass, maybe add volume, make little changes and see if they work.You'll thank yourself when you're older for getting into the iron game at a young age.
It's not a game, it's a job.
It's not a job, it's a lifestyle.
It's not a lifestyle, it's my life.
03-25-2006, 06:41 PM #3
if you are not going to use it, at least try and reduce your training. time, I mean doing more than 1hr. is counterproductive, I try to train no more than 45 minutes a day and 3 days a week, and it's working, and and even training like that I sometimes feel like I'm overtraining, I don't really know why, must be nutritional gaps, but anyway try to lower your training time.-
03-25-2006, 06:50 PM #4
03-26-2006, 06:25 AM #5
After doing more research it seems to me that Mike's training was based on the body not producing CORTISOL something what no bodybuilder wants, and not over taining. You can do this in several different ways.
So to reduce cortisol you can do many things. Dont go mad with training by doing 6days a week (pros can do this as they have small recovery times, probably though steroids) you probably be better of 3-4 times training a week.
Heres my list what i have come up with to reduce over trainiing and lower cortisol and raise testostorone
1)A good Antioxidant--
NOW Super Antioxidants1 20 Vcaps, seems to be great because if you take a good multi vitamin these have all the natural herbs and fruit extracts in, not just more vitamins. Antioxidants reduce free radicals in the body--free radicals scavenge on your food and body cells. Do a little research if you need to know more about these.
Research indicates that when consumed in dosages of 1 gram (1000mg), 3 times a day, cortisol levels are reduced. So 1 at breakfast 1 at mid day and 1 at night would be a good combination.
Glutamine is the most abundant amino acid in muscle cells and it is fantastic at preserving muscle through a reduction in cortisol levels. In addition, it offers other properties such as an increase in muscle cell volume, increased protein synthesis, enhanced immune function, and increased glycogen replenishment after a workout.
Phosphatidylserine, or PS for short, is a phopholipid that has been shown in studies to not only blunt the testosterone reduction caused by intense exercise, but also reduces cortisol by up to 40%.
You must make an effort to reduce stress in your life. Plan things ahead of time and use your time as wisely as possible. These items help with stress reduction as when things are planned they tend to run more smoothly. Emotional stress prompts the adrenal glands to start producing cortisol thus making your bodybuilding goals harder to reach. Therefore, learning to lead a stress reduced life is of paramount importance.
6)Don't Train Over 1 Hour With Weights--
After 1 hour of intense weight training, your testosterone levels begin to drop and your cortisol levels begin to rise! Not a good combination. Therefore, stay focused, and keep the workout moving along. You can always talk to the fellow gym members before or after the workout.
7)Do Not Overdo Cardiovascular Exercise --
Too much cardiovascular or aerobic exercise increases cortisol levels and as you know by now, cortisol loves to eat muscle and deposit body fat.
The fat burning zone formula is the following:
Fat burning zone=220-(Your Age) x (.75) this is a apoximate estimation give or take 10 of your pulse rate should be O.K
There are only two times that aerobic exercise is effective in burning fat. The first time is first thing in the morning on an empty stomach after drinking 16 to 24oz of water in order to prevent dehydration. When performed at this time you burn 300% more body fat that at any other time in the day because your body does not has any glycogen (stored carbohydrates-sugar) in the system to burn. Therefore, it has to go directly into the fat stores in order to get the energy necessary to complete the activity. The other time where aerobic exercise is effective is immediately after the weight training session. The reason for this is that when exercise is not performed first thing in the morning it takes your body approximately anywhere between 20 to 30 minutes to start burning fat. This is because that it how long it takes the body to deplete its glycogen stores and switch to a fat burning environment. Therefore, it would not be efficient to perform aerobic exercise by itself at any other time during the day because you would need to perform it for 20-30 minutes just to get to the fat burning stage and for an additional 20 minutes just so that you burn fat. This would give a grand total of 50 minutes a day and in my opinion, I think that unless you are a competitive bodybuilder with a perfect diet and a superb supplementation program designed to protect muscle mass, aerobic exercise should not be performed for more than 6 sessions a week of 20-40 minutes a day for males and 30-45 minutes for females since this would put you at a risk of losing muscle mass. Only competitive bodybuilders sometimes need to go as high as 45 minutes, twice a day, for seven days a week. Keep in mind however that this is performed for a short period of time and only in conjunction with a diet which consists of a high frequency of meals and with supplementation like glutamine, which helps to protect muscle tissue. Remember that more is not always better and this is especially true when it comes to aerobic exercise.
8)Get 8 Hours of Sleep Each Night--
Research indicates that in order to function properly, most of us need 8 hours and 15 minutes of uninterrupted sleep
The sleep , training, cardio parts are easy and combine these with a few of the supplemenets mention above and you should be on your way to reduced cortisol not over training and more testostorone for added muscle mass.
Last edited by BritishLion; 03-26-2006 at 06:30 AM.
03-26-2006, 10:13 AM #6
Whether you get you stimulate your muscles for growth through higher work load or an all out set, the same thing is always true. Mentzer's program was really relevant in the 80s when you had guys like Arnold recommend training twice a day for hours at a time. Now we have more effective programs than either of them came up with that fall somewhere in the middle of the two extremes.
03-26-2006, 08:30 PM #7
Rane14, have you even tried high intensity training? If not then don't tell someone to not do it. Just because it isn't the conventional way to train doesn't mean it doesn't work. I bought Mike Mentzer's book, High Intensity Training the Mike Mentzer Way, about 2 weeks ago. It is a great read and Mentzer is an intelligent guy. I tried H.I.T. for the first time last monday and I was in the gym for 20 minutes, was exhausted more than after my normal hour long workout, and was sore for the next 4 days which was my first time being sore in a few months. I guess that is what a new routine will do to you. I couldn't believe how difficult H.I.T. was, but surprisingly I felt like I accomplished more in 20 minutes than I ever did in an hour. I can't wait until I condition myself to get down to a 15 minute workout. If you are at a plateau I would definitely try out H.I.T. I have had 3 H.I.T. workouts so far and I feel like I have achieved more than I have in my 3 months of workouts prior to switching my routine. I would also read High Intensity Training the Mike Mentzer Way. It is a real good book.
03-26-2006, 08:38 PM #8Originally Posted by BringindapainYou'll thank yourself when you're older for getting into the iron game at a young age.
It's not a game, it's a job.
It's not a job, it's a lifestyle.
It's not a lifestyle, it's my life.
03-27-2006, 05:03 AM #9
Ive been training long enough to know that when I switch my routine up I can judge how effective it is going to be for my body after 3 workouts. I don't need some 16 year old whose nuts haven't even dropped yet telling me that I can't judge the effectiveness of my routine. All you say is the routine sucks; thanks for the informative advice Rane. You say it sucks, but then you go on and say, "I agree it is a good plateau breaker". Way to contradict yourself. If you are 16 and have already hit a plateau you got problems. I never said H.I.T. was the ultimate training method. I was giving my testimonial on it and if BritishLion wants to learn more he should go check out a Mentzer book.
03-27-2006, 12:05 PM #10
Thanks for replys. I have order 1 of his books and going to give it a little go for a month, then switch back to my normal routine maybe mix it up a little as i am ready for a change. Personally at the moment i follow arnold schwarzenegger exercises but not routine--he had a body with great symetry and proportions. I do what he does just into a 5day split, and only train each muscle once per week. Like i mention before i have a fast recovery but not as fast as an ex-steroid user.
Heres a routine arnold said he used to train for the 1974/75 mr olmypia.
Mon, Wed, Fri
Bench press - 5 sets, 6-10 reps
Flat bench flies - 5 sets, 6-10 reps
Incline bench press - 6 sets, 6-10 reps
Cable crossovers - 6 sets, 10-12 reps
Dips - 5 sets, to failure
Dumbbell pullovers - 5 sets, 10-12 reps
Front wide-grip chin-ups - 6 sets, to failure
T-bar rows - 5 sets, 6-10 reps
Seated pulley rows - 6 sets, 6-10 reps
One-arm dumbbell rows - 5 sets, 6-10 reps
Straight-leg deadlifts - 6 sets, 15 reps
Squats - 6 sets, 8-12 reps
Leg presses - 6 sets, 8-12 reps
Leg extensions - 6 sets, 12-15 reps
Leg curls - 6 sets, 10-12 reps
Barbell lunges - 5 sets, 15 reps
Standing calf raises -10 sets, 10 reps
Seated calf raises - 8 sets, 15 reps
One-legged calf raises (holding dumbbells) - 6 sets,12 reps
Wrist curls (forearms on knees) - 4 sets, 10 reps
Reverse barbell curls - 4 sets, 8 reps
Wright roller machine - to failure
Nonstop instinct training for 30 minutes
Tues, Thurs, Sat
Barbell curls - 6 sets, 6-10 reps
Seated dumbbell curls - 6 sets, 6-10 reps
Dumbbell concentration curls - 6 sets, 6-10 reps
Close-grip bench presses (for the all three heads) - 6 sets, 6-10 reps
Pushdowns (exterior head) - 6 sets, 6-10 reps
Barbell French presses (interior head) - 6 sets, 6-10 reps
One-arm dumbbell triceps extensions (exterior head) - 6 sets, 6-10 reps
Seated barbell presses - 6 sets, 6-10 reps
Lateral raises (standing) - 6 sets, 6-10 reps
Rear-delt lateral raises - 5 sets, 6-10 reps
Cable lateral raises - 5 sets, 10-12 reps
Calves and Forearms:
Same as Monday, Wednesday and Friday
Same as Monday, Wednesday and Friday.
read more about his routine and philosophy on body building here.
03-27-2006, 01:09 PM #11
believe it or not anytime you change your routine after months of doing on you will see results. Dorian Yates used a version of HIT and he pretty much injured himself out of the IFBB. To each there own. If you want to try it you don't need our blessing.
Just for future reference there is no magic workout. Just consistency, focus, hard work and the right amount of food.Cha Cha Cha
03-27-2006, 01:46 PM #12
i agree spirit, Dorian pretty much damaged his body so much he had to stop competing. I think prolonged H.I.T. could be damaging. I am trying it because it is the unconventional way to train and I want to see what it is all about. So far so good. I doubt I will keep doing it as my poundages increase, but as long as results are good I will do it for awhile, but not as my permanent routine.
11-22-2009, 10:39 AM #13
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i wont criticize HIT or high volume in general. ill just say that, for me, mentzer's HIT has been the best program for my physiology. i started working out roughly 3 years ago, but only got serious about 6 months ago. i was doing a high volume program with 2 days on, 1 day off, and suddenly stopped making muscle gains-- overtraining ftl.
i took a week off and then switched to a modified Mentzer's consolidated:
Day 1: Smith Squats, Closegrip Supinated Lat Pulldowns.
4 Days Rest.
Day 5: Dips, Deadlifts.
i modified it this way: 4 days rest instead of 7-10, and i do rest-pause on every exercises to make sure i actually go to failure.
the problem with HIT in general is that most people aren't willing (including me) to go to failure; it does not feel good or natural or safe. for me, rest-pause supplemented this. also, i incorporated de-training from DC-- after 6 weeks of HIT, i take a 1 week break. ive been on the program for 2 months now.
hope this helps.
11-22-2009, 10:41 AM #14
11-22-2009, 10:44 AM #15
11-22-2009, 12:17 PM #16
I did hit for close to 2yrs, and that was when i made most of my gains, buy it isn't for everyone, i hardly recommend it because its so much different, and if you dont put everything into each set you wont see the gains you wantmy thread http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=11891327
My new site http://sites.google.com/site/grim83/
It isn't that they cant see the solution.
It is that they cant see the problem.
No training session can be wasted
by a man who is determined to succeed.
10-20-2011, 04:15 AM #17
Hi BritishLion, I personally have just come back to the iron game after a decade off, back then i did a hit workout like your describing and I went from 12 stone to 13 and a half stone in about 3 weeks but then burnt out and couldn't gain anymore, so I discarded Mike Mentzer's heavy duty.
Now looking back and reading his material again, I realize I should not have wrote off his theory so quickly, a stone and a half of muscle gain in three weeks is quite special.
I think what happened with me was, I had grown bigger and stronger and was able to train with heavier weights, I think this increase was now resulting in overtraining with the 3 x a week program I was following and I think the action I needed was to take a week off and return with a reduced training frequency and or volume to allow both recovery and growth then continue and then further abbreiviate my routine as I made gains and once again reached a point where my increased strength and therefore intensity made this renecessary. I am once again trying a heavy duty workout/principles but have just started, so I can't say if its sucessful or not but I would advise giving it a try, what have you got to lose? get High intenity Training the Mentzer Way for the most complete book on Mike's HIT principles. If it works then great if not you have cancelled off one possibility either way you will gain something, good luck, if I have any success on the HIT i'll post it on here somewhere.
10-20-2011, 06:09 AM #18
You judge how good a routine is by whether a top pro does it?
Most top pro's are juiced up to their eye balls and have great genetics for bodybuilding, that doesn't make their routines the standard to go by, in fact their approach is probably training suicide for the average drug free trainer!
As for the natural top pro's, some just ain't natural and the others have a genetic advantage which makes training and gaining on any routine easier, plus you find natural bodybuilders tend to use more abbreviated training than the drug assisted.
Many of us need very abbreviated routines to gain on and quite possibly the genetically blessed would gain better on more abbreivated routines themselves, Dorian Yates used more infrequent and brief workouts than most of his peers with good results!
I've read that many people are getting alot out of training on the consildation routine by mike mentzer when they didn't gain on bigger routines ie more exercises/sets etc, so it seems training the whole body with four exercises works ok and is necessary for some.
Although I do like the idea of sitting around and playing halo.
Last edited by MENT4LSTRENGTH; 10-20-2011 at 06:34 AM.
10-20-2011, 07:06 AM #19
Interesting you should look at the "victory" of Arnold over Mike as validation for his volume approach, he trained longer each day than before, he was regaining muscle which is easier and still he came in lighter than his previous competing bodyweight and not as sharp.
The crowd were calling "fix" and a broadcasting channel never aired the footage which I surmise was due to the apparent fix, Mentzer was 5th which was blatantly a snub by the authorities for going against their system, and Mentzer quit competition due to the result, realising he couldn't beat the powers running the competition.
Anyway comparing two individuals doesn't work, thats why scientists have to use many subjects and repeat experiments so as to eliminate variation that arises from factors such as an individual's muscle gaining potential which can be grossly different between two individuals, greater numbers of subjects gives an average effect from the studied factor, in this case training volume.
As for HIT damaging joints, where is the supporting evidence for that, most joint problems come from a combination of overuse and poor form, obviously there are incidents where you can injure joints from an exercise in any type of workout but with HIT you have less chance of overuse injuries, Mike always advised against ballistic reps instead advising a 4-2-4 cadence to eliminate momentum and outside forces to protect the joints, so where is the increased risk of joint injury?
I think it fine to criticize but only if what you say has some foundation, I'm personally not sure if HIT is the best approach or not, I'm giving it a second go now, I realised when I first used it, I didn't reduce volume and frequency once I'd gained in strength and mass so I hit a plataue, but I did make quick initial gains, give me 6 months and i'll let you know if it worked for me!
10-23-2011, 02:43 PM #20
05-16-2012, 02:39 PM #21
HIT weight training does work
I started working out nine months ago after a 20 year layoff (since my high school days). HIT is an integral part of my routine. Never do HIT too long in a row or you'll end up over training. I cycle, one week HIT, one week bodybuilding (medium weight, higher rep) and one week heavy (heavy weight, low reps) and the transformation has been stunning. 9 months in I have lost over 60 lbs of fat and gained about 10-15lbs of muscle. I look cut and I'm strong as an ox. On my heavy days I'm pushing 1100 lbs on the leg press, benching 300lbs, and curling 140lbs on the olympic bar. My HIT week is killer and since major cardio is incorporated in the routine I do NO extra cardio during that week. I add in interval cardio on the body building and heavy weeks except for leg days. I work out Mon (biceps/triceps), Wed (legs/shoulders) and Fri (Chest/back), abs I do a couple times a week always after my workouts. The form of HIT i use for lifting is Chris Gethan's DTP (Dramatic Transformation Principle) from his 12 week trainer series. I superset the exercise for that day. For instance on leg/shoulder day. it's leg presses, then military presses all the way up the pyramid then down, with no rest between.
I love my HIT week. For the rest of the day I feel a sense of euphoria as the HGH is released from the intense back to back with no rest exercises. I look forward to bodybuilding week so I can make the mind muscle connection and really contract the medium weights for a great pump and I look forward to heavy week to really get the adrenaline going and push the max weights to impress the peeps in the gym. Mixing it up like this always makes it interesting and my body looks forward to the next cycle.
05-16-2012, 04:20 PM #22