Arginine+Ornithine Question

[The Brotherhood]

First of all, from my research and personal experience with NO2, the lowdown is

no2 WORKS for some people, doesnt work for some, just like creatine. It has no muscle building benefits, but gives very good pumps for the duration of consumption, vascularity, and recovery enchancement to a small degree (personal experience). But the lowdown is packaged "NO2" products are a large waste of money.

Now, l-arginine and l-ornithine combinations seem to , according to many people do exactly the same thing for them.

My questions are these:

1) are these two enough to get the same pumps and vascularity that one gets from typical NO2 products?
2) those that have used both, have you seen identical results? If no, then which were better?
3) Which company's arginine and ornithine are the cheapest and highest quality in your experience.
4)I like caffeine with my no2 (Dymatize Xpand Xtreme)

What dosages of caffeine+arginine+ornithine will equal what im getting from Dymatize Xpand.

Why waste money when i can get the same benefits for less?

Thanks

[pu12en12g]

This might help:
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=573903

[The Brotherhood]

thanx, it was a good read, got more insight as to what no2 really is

that said, im both a little lazy and a little slow, and id also appreciate a few direct answers to the questions i had written.

If you have any easy-to understand (layman language) no2 info sites id appreciate linkies

thankx again, CL products rock btw