Shoulder Development Help

[c10d]

What's up guys and girls? I've been having trouble with shoulder development for the last couple of months. My shoulders just don't seem to get much bigger compared to every other body part that I work out.
As of now, I only have dumbells, an EZ bar, a tricep bar and a flat bench. Not that I need much more - but here is what I usually do for shoulders

Seated DB Shoulder Press - 4 x 6-8 reps with one warmup set beforehand (I go pretty much as heavy as possible and increase the reps each week but when I get to be able to do over 8 reps with a certain weight, I bump the weight up and go back down to about 6 reps with the new weight)

Standing Lateral Raises - 3 x 8 x 15lb dumbells

FRONT RAISES:
Palm Down - 2 x 10 x 20lb DB's
Hammer Grip - 2 x 10 x 20lb Db's

I'm guessing I'm not doing enough...

Does anyone have any recommendations for a shoulder workout or anythign wrong with what i am doing? Anything at all?

Thanks in advance

c10

[papi93]

I've found that my anterior deltoid responds best to chest work and overhead pressing. As a result, I take out front raises and concentrate on my medial delts and posterior delts. How heavy do your db's go? If you are doing db bench presses and seated db shoulder presses, with back support, you should be causing adequate stimulation to the anterior deltoids.

[papi93]

With your training experience, I would get rid of the lateral raises and replace them with dumbbell upright rows. Only row up to where the upper arm is parallel to the ground. This is, basically, taking the a side lateral raise and turning it into a multi-joint exercise (upright rows). You will be able to handle more load and take the upper traps out of the movement more by only going to parallel with the upper arms.

[braindx]

Some of the major hindrance to shoulder gains come from:

1. Rotator cuff weakness. A lot of the pushing exercises like benching focus mainly on the internal rotation of the rotator cuff. Doing rotator cuff exercises especially for external rotation can help rectify the imbalance. I know several people for which this is the case. Strengthen their rotator cuffs has helped the stability of the shoulders and let them become stronger once they started up shoulder training again.

2. Weak posterior deltoids. Your body won't let your muscles become too imbalanced. My shoulder progress plateaued until I started hitting my posterior deltoids harder, and now the strength of my anterior and medial deltoids are going up with my increases in posterior deltoid strength. With these increases in strength come increases in mass.

[c10d]

Originally Posted by papi93

I've found that my anterior deltoid responds best to chest work and overhead pressing. As a result, I take out front raises and concentrate on my medial delts and posterior delts. How heavy do your db's go? If you are doing db bench presses and seated db shoulder presses, with back support, you should be causing adequate stimulation to the anterior deltoids.

Yeah most people say the anterior delts get hit hard while bench pressing, but a problem for me is that i have a mild case of gyno or "puffy nips" w/e and I only have a flat bench so i kind of shy away from flat bench pressing because of the worry of my lower/middle part of the pectoral pushing out further making the situation worse. I know this is probably a bad idea since bench pressing is a major compound movement. Another problem is when i do seated DB shoulder presses i have no back support because it doesnt have a back rest on it, it's just a flat bench.

Oh and my dumbells go to 55's

Originally Posted by papi93

With your training experience, I would get rid of the lateral raises and replace them with dumbbell upright rows. Only row up to where the upper arm is parallel to the ground. This is, basically, taking the a side lateral raise and turning it into a multi-joint exercise (upright rows). You will be able to handle more load and take the upper traps out of the movement more by only going to parallel with the upper arms.

Thanks I will give that a try, I never liked doing lateral raises anyways... they just felt like a strange exercise to me for some reason.

Originally Posted by braindx

Some of the major hindrance to shoulder gains come from:

1. Rotator cuff weakness. A lot of the pushing exercises like benching focus mainly on the internal rotation of the rotator cuff. Doing rotator cuff exercises especially for external rotation can help rectify the imbalance. I know several people for which this is the case. Strengthen their rotator cuffs has helped the stability of the shoulders and let them become stronger once they started up shoulder training again.

2. Weak posterior deltoids. Your body won't let your muscles become too imbalanced. My shoulder progress plateaued until I started hitting my posterior deltoids harder, and now the strength of my anterior and medial deltoids are going up with my increases in posterior deltoid strength. With these increases in strength come increases in mass.

I think Number 2 about the posterior delts may be an issue with me, because i noticed the rear part of my shoulders is not built. I'm unsure of exercises that hit this well, I just assumed they were hit enough when I was doing bent over rows, and one arm DB rows on the bench. Any suggestions for hitting them hard with the equipment i have?


Thanks a lot guys

[Hardkkore]

How's your diet my friend? Are you taking in enough calories for growth?

- Basic formula for maintenance: your weight in pounds x 11 to 12.
- Basic formula for growth/bulk: your weight in pounds x 15 to 16

- Or in Kg then your weight in pounds/2.2 X 24 = equal maintenance level
- For growth: your maintenance level + 800 to 1200 calories or even more if you want. That's basically about your weight in pounds/2.2 x 24 x 1.3 to 1.5.

What a lot of people don't know is that a good diet is the most the most important factor of growth. Live well!

[c10d]

Originally Posted by Hardkkore

How's your diet my friend? Are you taking in enough calories for growth?

- Basic formula for maintenance: your weight in pounds x 11 to 12.
- Basic formula for growth/bulk: your weight in pounds x 15 to 16

- Or in Kg then your weight in pounds/2.2 X 24 = equal maintenance level
- For growth: your maintenance level + 800 to 1200 calories or even more if you want. That's basically about your weight in pounds/2.2 x 24 x 1.3 to 1.5.

What a lot of people don't know is that a good diet is the most the most important factor of growth. Live well!

Yup I am without a doubt taking in enough calories. According to the formula for growth/bulk I should be taking in about 2,240 calories - I take in about 3,500 slowly going up to 4,000. I have had a fast metabolism my whole life and a smaller bone structure and lean. I basically eat all day... for the most part i try to keep it every 2 hours while in school but at home, hell I eat probably every 45 minutes - an hour and a half.

[The Real Deal]

uh you arent doing any work for your posterior delt. rows arent enough for a lot of ppl. i would recommend facepulls and/or hang cleans for hitting rear delts.
take out front raises. ur front delts are probably well developed.
i wouldnt take out lateral raises. in fact i'd do cable or db lateral raises 3-4 times a week at the end of workouts. i've only noticed growth with high frequency lateral raises, after spending 1.5 yrs on presses with zero results.

[Hardkkore]

Originally Posted by c10d

Yup I am without a doubt taking in enough calories. According to the formula for growth/bulk I should be taking in about 2,240 calories - I take in about 3,500 slowly going up to 4,000. I have had a fast metabolism my whole life and a smaller bone structure and lean. I basically eat all day... for the most part i try to keep it every 2 hours while in school but at home, hell I eat probably every 45 minutes - an hour and a half.

Great job dude on your diet at such a young age! Most people struggle with their diet; so nice to hear that you're not. Now, just make sure that you keep your bulk as clean as possible, and most of your cals should be coming from protein [Pro/Carb/Fat is 4/4/9 calories per gram].

Well, I don't really have much more to add; I see that the guys here are already doing a great job advising you on your training routine. Keep lifting n live well!

[braindx]

I think Number 2 about the posterior delts may be an issue with me, because i noticed the rear part of my shoulders is not built. I'm unsure of exercises that hit this well, I just assumed they were hit enough when I was doing bent over rows, and one arm DB rows on the bench. Any suggestions for hitting them hard with the equipment i have?

Let's see.. bent over rows are good, OA DB rows are good, potentially add reverse flys.

Look for some more in here:
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/exer...scle=Shoulders

[rawforce]

hey man i think u should try front raises wit the ez bar, try diff grip, do 2 sets shoulder wide grip then 2 wit the inside grip, i did them 2day i swear i couldnt lift my hand after the work out, (dont swing ur body 2 much while doin it)
also to add some more intensity u could do db lateral raises sittin on bench (uprite it first) , then rest ur back on the bench so that u dont swing wen u lift,

so try overhead db presses- 4 sets
ez bar front raises - 4 sets
lateral raises - 3 sets
shrugs - 3 to 4 sets

try this for 1 workout, should do the damage ,
make sure u hav ur protien shake (2 scoops) after workout
cheers keep workin

[de_barathrum]

Originally Posted by rawforce

hey man i think u should try front raises wit the ez bar, try diff grip, do 2 sets shoulder wide grip then 2 wit the inside grip, i did them 2day i swear i couldnt lift my hand after the work out, (dont swing ur body 2 much while doin it)
also to add some more intensity u could do db lateral raises sittin on bench (uprite it first) , then rest ur back on the bench so that u dont swing wen u lift,

so try overhead db presses- 4 sets
ez bar front raises - 4 sets
lateral raises - 3 sets
shrugs - 3 to 4 sets

try this for 1 workout, should do the damage ,
make sure u hav ur protien shake (2 scoops) after workout
cheers keep workin

*sighs*

[c10d]

Originally Posted by The Real Deal

uh you arent doing any work for your posterior delt. rows arent enough for a lot of ppl. i would recommend facepulls and/or hang cleans for hitting rear delts.
take out front raises. ur front delts are probably well developed.
i wouldnt take out lateral raises. in fact i'd do cable or db lateral raises 3-4 times a week at the end of workouts. i've only noticed growth with high frequency lateral raises, after spending 1.5 yrs on presses with zero results.

I feel like a newb all over again because I'm not familiar with facepulls and hangcleans... I'll have to look them up in the exercises section on the site.

I will give the lateral raises a few times a week a chance and see how that goes.

Originally Posted by Hardkkore

Great job dude on your diet at such a young age! Most people struggle with their diet; so nice to hear that you're not. Now, just make sure that you keep your bulk as clean as possible, and most of your cals should be coming from protein [Pro/Carb/Fat is 4/4/9 calories per gram].

Well, I don't really have much more to add; I see that the guys here are already doing a great job advising you on your training routine. Keep lifting n live well!

Thanks for the compliment.. always good to hear those! LoL, but yeah I'm always on top of my diet and one of the best things about bodybuilding for me is the fact that I get to eat so much food because I absolutely love eating! These boards are great when we have serious people with serious constructive replys, I'm on these boards probably 15 times a day, it's become kind of an addiction - yet I swear I've learned more about health on this site than in my whole school career lol.

Originally Posted by braindx

Let's see.. bent over rows are good, OA DB rows are good, potentially add reverse flys.

Look for some more in here:
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/exer...scle=Shoulders

I'm going to check that link out right after i post this message Thanks man.

[c10d]

Ok so i checked out that link and one of the exercises which I'll give a try is lying rear delt raise


edit- Oh and i forgot to ask, since I only have a flat bench with no back support can I still do seated DB shoulder presses effectively if I try to just keep my back as straight as possible? Or is there something else I should/could do like maybe get a lifting belt or something?

[bigboy15]

Originally Posted by c10d

What's up guys and girls? I've been having trouble with shoulder development for the last couple of months. My shoulders just don't seem to get much bigger compared to every other body part that I work out.
As of now, I only have dumbells, an EZ bar, a tricep bar and a flat bench. Not that I need much more - but here is what I usually do for shoulders

Seated DB Shoulder Press - 4 x 6-8 reps with one warmup set beforehand (I go pretty much as heavy as possible and increase the reps each week but when I get to be able to do over 8 reps with a certain weight, I bump the weight up and go back down to about 6 reps with the new weight)

Standing Lateral Raises - 3 x 8 x 15lb dumbells

FRONT RAISES:
Palm Down - 2 x 10 x 20lb DB's
Hammer Grip - 2 x 10 x 20lb Db's

I'm guessing I'm not doing enough...

Does anyone have any recommendations for a shoulder workout or anythign wrong with what i am doing? Anything at all?

Thanks in advance

c10

I'd reccommend dropping the front laterals for rears, and switching from db seated shoulder press to standing militaries if you can get your hands on a Oly bar. Also on the lateral raises, I know alot of people don't reccommend going heavy, but if you can lift more on these I'd reccommend it. Try using a heavier DB for the same reps and I'm sure you'd be able to do it. The most important thing IMO however is progressively increasing your press along with lots of food.

[c10d]

Originally Posted by bigboy15

I'd reccommend dropping the front laterals for rears, and switching from db seated shoulder press to standing militaries if you can get your hands on a Oly bar. Also on the lateral raises, I know alot of people don't reccommend going heavy, but if you can lift more on these I'd reccommend it. Try using a heavier DB for the same reps and I'm sure you'd be able to do it. The most important thing IMO however is progressively increasing your press along with lots of food.

Yeah I think I'm going to drop the front raises since my anterior delts are hit with all my press movements basically, and start doing rear lateral raises laying on the bench stomach down.

As far as the standing military press, only problem is my ceiling isn't high enough for these, so for now I have to do them seated. I'm thinking maybe I can get something to put on the bench behind my back? or have a training partner make sure my back is straight throughout my movement?

[c10d]

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