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  1. #1
    Registered User shadowstrength's Avatar
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    Protein vs. Free Form Amino Acids

    I know that amino acids are free form and do not need to be digested to reach the muscles. I also know that different amino acids have different purposes, but besides that what is the difference between injesting a high grade, fast digesting protein such as whey isolatel and free form amino acids?(besides the extra energy it takes to digest the whey isolate) I know the whey isolate will take long to get to your muscles, but if you drink ahead of time and take this into consideration is shouldn't be a problem.(?)
    The main reason why I am asking is because since I am almost all out of amino acids, I was wondering if it would be more benificial to drink a scoop of whey isolate mixed with protein before my cardio.(which I perform directly after weight training for about an hour) And this could be applied to all circumstances when amino acids are suggested.(?)
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  2. #2
    Registered User TeeD_uP's Avatar
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    protien vs aminos?

    protein is made up of amino acids and hydrolysed whey protein is prob the quikest acting protien u can get flowing to your bloodstream in under 15 mins, i use bcaas (l-valine l-luecine and l-isoleucine) wich are only a small preportion of whats in protiens amino compound, i mix it in with my shakes.......... i make a mix of 300gms creatine 400 gms bcaas and 100 gms l-glutamine and put about 3 to 5 grams of this in my shake when ever i have one and it works great on recovery and energy levels, however if i had to pick between bcaas and protein i would go protein all the way becoz you get the same goodness and more out of it,
    load that bar with iron consume them calories now go build some muscle son...when standard door frames are an issue thats when my quest is complete...
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  3. #3
    Registered User TeeD_uP's Avatar
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    Post Protein..... Damn How Could I Spell My Best Freinds Name Wrong!!!

    Protein Not Protien
    load that bar with iron consume them calories now go build some muscle son...when standard door frames are an issue thats when my quest is complete...
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  4. #4
    nevigsawkufelgnisaton in10city's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by shadowstrength View Post
    Iwhat is the difference between injesting a high grade, fast digesting protein such as whey isolatel and free form amino acids?(
    Whey contains functional peptide fractions that FFAs do not contain.
    It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
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  5. #5
    game over DRP7's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by in10city View Post
    Whey contains functional peptide fractions that FFAs do not contain.
    the 'functionality' of these peptides will however largely depend on the primary processing of whey (e.g. CFM vs. ion exchanged) and on the grade of hydrolysis.
    some whey peptides have indeed very beneficial effects with regards to health and even growth, some may eventually be even counterproductive. (e.g. alpha lactoglobulin vs. beta lactoglobulin). There was a new product discussed (forgot the name) from a supplement guru, that claims to contain highly concentrated whey peptiodes that have been shown to have tremendous effects on growth / protein synthesis. (I think the name was progenex or something like that, but AFAIK its not yet available).
    Last edited by :P; 02-20-2008 at 04:28 AM.
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  6. #6
    Registered User andydriffield's Avatar
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    Amino acids is what we want not protein ,protein is basically chains of amino acids which have to be shortened so they can be digested and used by the body which is why hydrolysed digests so quickly, however whey ,casein or any other source of protein has amino acids but many that are non essential and that the body already produces so u dont need any more which u would get from whey e.g glutamine

    this is why bcaas and essential amino acids are better because they are not produced by the body so u need to eat them or take them in supplemental form ,also they are digested much quicker,used more efficently for protein synthesis and sometimes in need of use are used for energy instead of the body using muscle as energy

    so to answer your question amino acids in tablet,capsule or powder form would be better ,however u still need to eat protein as well as they are just supplements and not your only source of protein
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  7. #7
    Registered User treerollins's Avatar
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    Free form amino acids and very short chain peptides use independant transporters. These short chain peptides and aa's enter the bloodstream as a bolus of sorts. When blood leucine concentrations reach a certain level protein synthesis is initiated via mTOR.

    Whey isolate is a rich source of bcaa and glutamine. Cross-flow microfiltered whey preserves sub-fractions such as immunoglobulins. Whey isolate is a great protein choice but it cannot spike blood aa levels like whey/casein hydrolysate or bcaa.

    Having amino acids circulating in the bloodstream during a workout is smart for two reasons; one anabolic in nature (leucine/mTOR) and the other anti-catabolic (bcaa/glutamine act as donors to gluconeogenesis). During periods of low blood glucose concentration the liver will borrow bcaa to fuel ATP production between sets via deamination/transamination (gluconeogenesis).
    Better to have these bcaa come from your shaker bottle than your muscle tissue.

    Use the digestive properties of these supplements to create a positive growth environment. An hour before your workout utilize whey isolate. Immediately before and during utilize bcaa/glutamine (Xtend) or a hydrolysate (PeptoPro). Upon completion of your workout have whey isolate and a few bananas.

    I've posted a few times on subjects similar to this and you might find them helpful as well.
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  8. #8
    game over DRP7's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by treerollins View Post
    Free form amino acids and very short chain peptides use independant transporters. These short chain peptides and aa's enter the bloodstream as a bolus of sorts. When blood leucine concentrations reach a certain level protein synthesis is initiated via mTOR.

    Whey isolate is a rich source of bcaa and glutamine. Cross-flow microfiltered whey preserves sub-fractions such as immunoglobulins. Whey isolate is a great protein choice but it cannot spike blood aa levels like whey/casein hydrolysate or bcaa.

    Having amino acids circulating in the bloodstream during a workout is smart for two reasons; one anabolic in nature (leucine/mTOR) and the other anti-catabolic (bcaa/glutamine act as donors to gluconeogenesis). During periods of low blood glucose concentration the liver will borrow bcaa to fuel ATP production between sets via deamination/transamination (gluconeogenesis).
    Better to have these bcaa come from your shaker bottle than your muscle tissue.

    Use the digestive properties of these supplements to create a positive growth environment. An hour before your workout utilize whey isolate. Immediately before and during utilize bcaa/glutamine (Xtend) or a hydrolysate (PeptoPro). Upon completion of your workout have whey isolate and a few bananas.

    I've posted a few times on subjects similar to this and you might find them helpful as well.

    ^^^excellent post!
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  9. #9
    Registered User treerollins's Avatar
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    Thanks for the compliment
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  10. #10
    Registered User TeeD_uP's Avatar
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    yes but i herd that taking to many individual amino's damages cells eg if u take glutamine or luecine in seperate form can stop others aminos from working or not be as benificel as taking an even amount of all the essentual amino acids. who knows if its true i dont have the article to produce it. but if thats true your better off cycling with individual aminos true? and who knows if you should cycle with protein supplements, but to many conflicting things make you wonder.as you need protien to feed and replenish muscle how would we go with out protein after a heavy sesion with the iron?.......eg if we were to cycle with it when we were on the off period and if we did would it shock the system and incress results on the on period, as we might come emune to it, maybey i try it i been training for many years and got great results with out it (protein) when i first started but then again the first year u get best results......
    load that bar with iron consume them calories now go build some muscle son...when standard door frames are an issue thats when my quest is complete...
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  11. #11
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    Smile

    I interchange between BCAA & protein.
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  12. #12
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    Originally Posted by treerollins View Post
    Use the digestive properties of these supplements to create a positive growth environment. An hour before your workout utilize whey isolate. Immediately before and during utilize bcaa/glutamine (Xtend) or a hydrolysate (PeptoPro). Upon completion of your workout have whey isolate and a few bananas.
    I like this post. There are three separate situations there. Does your banana suggestion imply that you don't see value in carbohydrates in the first two situations?
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  13. #13
    Registered User DaveGabe24's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by TeeD_uP View Post
    yes but i herd that taking to many individual amino's damages cells eg if u take glutamine or luecine in seperate form can stop others aminos from working or not be as benificel as taking an even amount of all the essentual amino acids. who knows if its true i dont have the article to produce it. but if thats true your better off cycling with individual aminos true? and who knows if you should cycle with protein supplements, but to many conflicting things make you wonder.as you need protien to feed and replenish muscle how would we go with out protein after a heavy sesion with the iron?.......eg if we were to cycle with it when we were on the off period and if we did would it shock the system and incress results on the on period, as we might come emune to it, maybey i try it i been training for many years and got great results with out it (protein) when i first started but then again the first year u get best results......
    Hate to say it, but you overanalyze my friend. I know you're trying to be safe, but you need to just think basic for a little while. The only reason whey isolate might not be a good option for you is because as you said, you do cardio directly after working out and whey might cause some indigestion. Unless it is extremely high quality, or hydrolyzed you might be better off with your ffAA's.

    People supplement with bulk leucine all the time, there is some threads around here on having a full blend of eaa's for bulk leucine to be effective, I'll try to find some fort you.
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