transsexuals in the oLYMPICS? oh my!

[Hard Drive]

http://lesbianlife.about.com/od/lesb...nsathletes.htm

Transsexual athletes who have undergone a sex-change operation are now allowed to compete in the Olympic games. The International Olympic Committee stated in November 2003 that, ?We will have no discrimination,? at the Olympics.


In order to compete in the Olympics, athletes must first, qualify for their sport. Trans athletes must also have completed sex-reassignment surgery, have their gender identity be legally recognized and must have been on hormones long enough that they would not have any gender-related advantage in sports competition. The rules cover both female-to-male and male-to-female transsexuals.

I was rather curious about opinions on this from the FtM section.

I can tell you straight up that I've been lifting since I was on hormone therapy when I was 14. Even though I went off of it when I was 16, my male puberty was delayed. I worked very, very hard to get to the lifts I've got today. However, I'm sure that if I haven't ever had any testosterone in my system, I wouldn't have had the big jump up in power that I ended up with, although I can't honestly say that for sure. Either way, if a male were to have developed a sound athletic base in any given sport, even more than a female due to testosterone, is it really fair for this stuff to be allowed? I mean, as long as he were to continue training, he would still only keep improving, maybe not as much as when he wasn't on hormone therapy, but definately still improvement. Granted hormone therapy(MtF's generally have less testosterone than genetic females from medications), various surgeries(breast augmentation, gender reassignment surgery, facial cosmetic surgeries and other cosmetic procedures) would drastically reduce performance from down time, there's still a high likelihood that a MtF athlete would outdo a female athlete simply because of the fact that she was born a male.

I mean, I'm a transsexual, I'm on therapy myself. I'm losing muscle mass, I'm still working HARD and getting good, impressive gains that many women have worked at for ages and still not achieved(many guys too). My mile has actually improved from loss of muscle weight, I've reached goals I never thought I'd get like muscle ups. But I've dropped my working out to completely strength specific on a few certain lifts, it's the only way I can keep up my strength in those with the lack of androgens, so it really does hit my body up pretty hard. But I don't think this is fair, even if it gives me the chance to live out my dream of being a track star.

What I see potentially happening, is that this could be exploited by males who are willing to give up their gender just to hit the top of a sport in one section. Remember that move about the retard competing in the special olympics? Well what's to stop a gay guy or something from exploiting this to get an unfair advantage? I mean, people inject themselves, break bones early on(like russians break their hips to improve flexibility), blood dope, gene dope, etc etc. This could just be another ticket to get ahead unfairly.

I don't like it, I would like to see more medical FACTS about how much lack of testosterone REALLY effects athleticism. I mean, I have this image of every single female title really being held by a male. On the flip side, Female to Males basically get steroids through their androgen hormonal therapy, is that fair?

Although, two years of humiliation, fear, and desperation along with severe body alteration and complete mental makeover would probably discourage most people from even considering that...
But still. :-(

[bigbadbutch]

It's my understanding that the women who want to compete in women's events (as opposed to transgendered events) are women who have already transitioned. I don't really see any non-transgendered men giving up their bits just to compete in women's sports. Just like most heterosexual men most gay men value their penis almost as much as life itself if not a little bit more. Personally, I'm fine with it so long as FtMs get the same benefit once transitioned.

[NativeLips]

This is just crazy.

[iKoniConSciencE]

The compassionate, open-minded person in me went, "Oh cool! Of course they should be allowed to compete in women's events as long as they have fully transitioned as women. It is unfair for them to be ostracised forever after undergoing all those changes and what if they don't WANT to be famous as olympic transsexuals? Why wouldn't they want to go under the radar and simply be known as talented WOMEN once they've gone through so much serious reconstruction?"

The competitive monster in me, however, realizes that if I lost to someone I knew was a transsexual, I'd probably use it as an excuse, even if not a completely justified one.

[LittleDonkey]

People who are outwardly female (female sex organs, menstruation, high estrogen levels etc.) can still have a Y chromosome which means they'd "fail" a gender test. Gender testing is definitely treacherous territory!

ETA: Which is a separate issue from transsexuals in the Olympics, but it goes to show that it's a complicated question without a straightforward answer!

[smariejohnson]

The part in me that tries to be accepting of everyone's life choices and decisions thinks it's okay...not great just okay (that side didn't win). However there is a huge side of me that feels an MTF will always have some type of advantage over women because no matter what an MTF takes and how MTF persons alter themselves, they can NEVER escape their TRUE identity which is they are a male. Women have to fight a lot just to even be considered worthy of participating in sports even in this day and age. Don't think so...look at the huge salary difference between men and women in soccer, basketball, volleyball, female football leagues, and bodybuilding. Women work just as hard if not harder and yet the sports world is still more accepting of male athletes...unless it's a sport people FEEL a female should do like gymnastics and figure skating. To me it just furthers the struggle of women fighting to gain the respect they deserve in sports. Next MTF's will want to hop in figure competitions, play in the WNBA, hop in a female softball league all because as a male they could NOT excel and know they have a better chance of exceling at the sport if they openly decieve people and compete as a female which they are NOT.

[ChrisV92]

Originally Posted by Hard Drive

http://lesbianlife.about.com/od/lesb...nsathletes.htm



I was rather curious about opinions on this from the FtM section.

I can tell you straight up that I've been lifting since I was on hormone therapy when I was 14. Even though I went off of it when I was 16, my male puberty was delayed. I worked very, very hard to get to the lifts I've got today. However, I'm sure that if I haven't ever had any testosterone in my system, I wouldn't have had the big jump up in power that I ended up with, although I can't honestly say that for sure. Either way, if a male were to have developed a sound athletic base in any given sport, even more than a female due to testosterone, is it really fair for this stuff to be allowed? I mean, as long as he were to continue training, he would still only keep improving, maybe not as much as when he wasn't on hormone therapy, but definately still improvement. Granted hormone therapy(MtF's generally have less testosterone than genetic females from medications), various surgeries(breast augmentation, gender reassignment surgery, facial cosmetic surgeries and other cosmetic procedures) would drastically reduce performance from down time, there's still a high likelihood that a MtF athlete would outdo a female athlete simply because of the fact that she was born a male.

I mean, I'm a transsexual, I'm on therapy myself. I'm losing muscle mass, I'm still working HARD and getting good, impressive gains that many women have worked at for ages and still not achieved(many guys too). My mile has actually improved from loss of muscle weight, I've reached goals I never thought I'd get like muscle ups. But I've dropped my working out to completely strength specific on a few certain lifts, it's the only way I can keep up my strength in those with the lack of androgens, so it really does hit my body up pretty hard. But I don't think this is fair, even if it gives me the chance to live out my dream of being a track star.

What I see potentially happening, is that this could be exploited by males who are willing to give up their gender just to hit the top of a sport in one section. Remember that move about the retard competing in the special olympics? Well what's to stop a gay guy or something from exploiting this to get an unfair advantage? I mean, people inject themselves, break bones early on(like russians break their hips to improve flexibility), blood dope, gene dope, etc etc. This could just be another ticket to get ahead unfairly.

I don't like it, I would like to see more medical FACTS about how much lack of testosterone REALLY effects athleticism. I mean, I have this image of every single female title really being held by a male. On the flip side, Female to Males basically get steroids through their androgen hormonal therapy, is that fair?

Although, two years of humiliation, fear, and desperation along with severe body alteration and complete mental makeover would probably discourage most people from even considering that...
But still. :-(

So are you a guy or a girl? :S

[Newbtime]

Brb hackin off my nads to become a olympic weight lifting champion.


Its all about the blood, sweat and tears right?

[smariejohnson]

Originally Posted by ChrisV92

So are you a guy or a girl? :S

Thats a guy who WANTS to be a girl

[Deborah_Lyn]

This was a major issue in the 70s I think. Some male athletes who became female post op and it generated controversy due to upper body strength. I think, if I recall correctly it was female tennis, where a strong swing can mean a huge difference between win/lose.

I'm kind of on the fence.

If someone committs to changing physcial gender traits to match their inner personality, I do not think they should be held back from competiting. But, they also have huge strength gain most females could never get in upper body due to lack of testerone.

Olympics means $$$, so I think we'll see this becoming a bigger issue in the next 10 years.

[cassiegose]

Originally Posted by Hard Drive

http://lesbianlife.about.com/od/lesb...nsathletes.htm



I was rather curious about opinions on this from the FtM section.

I can tell you straight up that I've been lifting since I was on hormone therapy when I was 14. Even though I went off of it when I was 16, my male puberty was delayed. I worked very, very hard to get to the lifts I've got today. However, I'm sure that if I haven't ever had any testosterone in my system, I wouldn't have had the big jump up in power that I ended up with, although I can't honestly say that for sure. Either way, if a male were to have developed a sound athletic base in any given sport, even more than a female due to testosterone, is it really fair for this stuff to be allowed? I mean, as long as he were to continue training, he would still only keep improving, maybe not as much as when he wasn't on hormone therapy, but definately still improvement. Granted hormone therapy(MtF's generally have less testosterone than genetic females from medications), various surgeries(breast augmentation, gender reassignment surgery, facial cosmetic surgeries and other cosmetic procedures) would drastically reduce performance from down time, there's still a high likelihood that a MtF athlete would outdo a female athlete simply because of the fact that she was born a male.

I mean, I'm a transsexual, I'm on therapy myself. I'm losing muscle mass, I'm still working HARD and getting good, impressive gains that many women have worked at for ages and still not achieved(many guys too). My mile has actually improved from loss of muscle weight, I've reached goals I never thought I'd get like muscle ups. But I've dropped my working out to completely strength specific on a few certain lifts, it's the only way I can keep up my strength in those with the lack of androgens, so it really does hit my body up pretty hard. But I don't think this is fair, even if it gives me the chance to live out my dream of being a track star.

What I see potentially happening, is that this could be exploited by males who are willing to give up their gender just to hit the top of a sport in one section. Remember that move about the retard competing in the special olympics? Well what's to stop a gay guy or something from exploiting this to get an unfair advantage? I mean, people inject themselves, break bones early on(like russians break their hips to improve flexibility), blood dope, gene dope, etc etc. This could just be another ticket to get ahead unfairly.

I don't like it, I would like to see more medical FACTS about how much lack of testosterone REALLY effects athleticism. I mean, I have this image of every single female title really being held by a male. On the flip side, Female to Males basically get steroids through their androgen hormonal therapy, is that fair?

Although, two years of humiliation, fear, and desperation along with severe body alteration and complete mental makeover would probably discourage most people from even considering that...
But still. :-(

Ok I think i'm confused.... You say in your post that you don't like the idea of transsexuals competing in the Olympics.... HOWEVER I thought I read on your profile that your long term goal is to compete in the Olympics in weightlifting.?. Did I miss something here as that doesn't make sense to me.

[another_day1]

I don't know how I feel about this. I think that somehow if it could be proven that there would be no extra benefit from the meds they took then sure. But I don't know if that is ever something that can be done. So I think its something that should be researched and looked into a lot more before a final decision is made.

[NativeLips]

Originally Posted by cassiegose

Ok I think i'm confused.... You say in your post that you don't like the idea of transsexuals competing in the Olympics.... HOWEVER I thought I read on your profile that your long term goal is to compete in the Olympics in weightlifting.?. Did I miss something here as that doesn't make sense to me.

It means that he/she is crazy. Transexuals are crazier and less logical than women, which is saying something. (no sexist/trannyophobe)

[lilly_julia]

hmmm. That is an interesting debate that you raised there. I can imagine people going to extremes to compete in the olympics like you said, russians breaking their hips to be more flexible (jesus christ.)

To comment on an above poster, transexuals ARE women if they made the switch. They are not pretending. They were born with their female gender identity in their brains, it just did not reflect in their anatomy.

I think if we are to reach an understanding about the spectrums which gender encompasses.. male, female, and a million variations in between... then it is futile to wonder whether a male to female tran should be able to compete in the female olympics. I am guessing that there are already lots of gender-unique people competing under the gender which they most resemble, like Little Donkey said. Everyone is genetically different, whether we forced it upon ourselves or not. Therefore the advantages and disadvantages, genetically speaking, already exist in the competition- they are built in. It just depends how you choose to overcome them I suppose.

[lilly_julia]

Originally Posted by NativeLips

It means that he/she is crazy. Transexuals are crazier and less logical than women, which is saying something. (no sexist/trannyophobe)

you might want to try a less sweeping generalization if you are as open-minded as you portray yourself to be.

[SpittfireDA]

Originally Posted by lilly_julia

To comment on an above poster, transexuals ARE women if they made the switch. They are not pretending. They were born with their female gender identity in their brains, it just did not reflect in their anatomy.

Yes, but athletic ability is based on ANATOMY and not if you like wearing makeup or think you look good in a skirt.

So, as far as sporting events are concerned, they're men. Tennis serves and softball pitches don't honor gender identity and feelings in numbers.

I agree with some of the above about there being an unfair advantage - that should be obvious. Thus, they should not be allowed to compete in women's sports - of course it was their choice to switch and they should be willing to accept the consequences of that choice.

Everyone these days is far too concerned about not offending anyone, being politically correct, or not "judging" people that it's clouding judgments that should be fairly straightforward, IMO.

[cassiegose]

Originally Posted by spittfireda

everyone these days is far too concerned about not offending anyone, being politically correct, or not "judging" people that it's clouding judgments that should be fairly straightforward, imo.

well said!!!

[GymMouse45]

As a practical matter, I don't see how this would ever work. There are already too many political controversies in the Olympics regarding drugs and other forms of cheating. Even if the transsexual athlete trained and competed honorably, there will always be people who would view the result as tainted. Also, there are culturally conservative countries that compete in the Games which are still uncomfortable with the idea of natural women competing in athletics. I cannot imagine how those countries would deal with the idea of transsexual athletes. Having said that, I applaud you Hard Drive for trying to reach your athletic potential and I wish you the best of luck.

[humblegenius]

The olympics is supposed to be about natural ability winning out.

Im not trying to offend here, but if you were born a man, and are now a woman, there is nothing natural about that.

Im not trying to be insensitive, Im just posting my opinion.

[Hard Drive]

Originally Posted by smariejohnson

The part in me that tries to be accepting of everyone's life choices and decisions thinks it's okay...not great just okay (that side didn't win). However there is a huge side of me that feels an MTF will always have some type of advantage over women because no matter what an MTF takes and how MTF persons alter themselves, they can NEVER escape their TRUE identity which is they are a male. Women have to fight a lot just to even be considered worthy of participating in sports even in this day and age. Don't think so...look at the huge salary difference between men and women in soccer, basketball, volleyball, female football leagues, and bodybuilding. Women work just as hard if not harder and yet the sports world is still more accepting of male athletes...unless it's a sport people FEEL a female should do like gymnastics and figure skating. To me it just furthers the struggle of women fighting to gain the respect they deserve in sports. Next MTF's will want to hop in figure competitions, play in the WNBA, hop in a female softball league all because as a male they could NOT excel and know they have a better chance of exceling at the sport if they openly decieve people and compete as a female which they are NOT.

True identity? So someone's entire life is determined by their outward characteristics that they are born with? Must a blind man born blind stay blind? Or an albino woman stay albino? I mean sure they can live with those things just fine, but it'd make them a lot happier to not feel left out. Someone born in a Muslim country must always suscribe to the religion of Islam, without any chance of converting to another religion?

Basically, no matter what, you can't change your own destiny?

I quite disagree. Simply because you seem to doubt your ability to change, doesn't mean I do.

You think bio women have to work hard? Try explaining to your boss why your background check has a former male name on it. You think the world is more accepting of male athletes?

[Mindi911]

Originally Posted by Hard Drive

True identity? So someone's entire life is determined by their outward characteristics that they are born with? Must a blind man born blind stay blind? Or an albino woman stay albino? I mean sure they can live with those things just fine, but it'd make them a lot happier to not feel left out. Someone born in a Muslim country must always suscribe to the religion of Islam, without any chance of converting to another religion?

Basically, no matter what, you can't change your own destiny?

I quite disagree. Simply because you seem to doubt your ability to change, doesn't mean I do.

You think bio women have to work hard? Try explaining to your boss why your background check has a former male name on it. You think the world is more accepting of male athletes?

She didn't mean it like that and you know it! You know that what she meant is you were born a male and no matter what you've done to yourself your genes are still coded to you being a male. That's one thing you can not escape!!!! When you throw a ball you will throw it like a male, when you lift a weight you will still pick it up like a male, when you do anything even though you look like a female on the outside on the inside your wiring is still wired to male.

It doesn't matter what our precious scientists and doctors can do, they can't can't undo your genes.

Do I think it's fair they're allowing transsexuals into the Olympics - NO! Sorry I don't, but why the hell should a lady lose to a what is essentially a man, hell they might as well allow the girl take roids because that's essentially what they are fighting, only in it's most pure form.

[Hard Drive]

Originally Posted by SpittfireDA

Everyone these days is far too concerned about not offending anyone, being politically correct, or not "judging" people that it's clouding judgments that should be fairly straightforward, IMO.

I do agree that a lot of MtF transsexuals would have an unfair advantage. I mean, most aren't 5'2 like me, someone with a more classic male frame before transition would have different body mechanics due to different bone structure. Then again, most females in the olympics have used supplements to increase their muscular performance where a transwoman would have spent two years MINIMUM on catabolic medicines in attempt to lose muscle mass and athletic performance.

And you still failed to address FtM transsexuals. What of them? Should they be forced to compete in the special olympics or something because they would have unfavorable bone structure and height and muscle definition to compete with big league, "dudes?"

Transsexualism and the transition that often accompanies it is just one of many things that can alter an athletes present or future performance. What else, are you going to say that tall people have an unfair advantage against short people in things like track and swimming and basketball and therefore shouldn't be allowed to compete because it isn't fair to short people?

The human race presents a wide variety of specimens. The purpose of the Olympics is to give the entire planet a glimpse of that variety and how it competes against each other.



As far as my personal competing: I don't think it will happen. I've found I've become more inclined to cook and run and study more and try to lose all the muscle I've ever had in my entire life than I am inclined to perform. Granted one day after SRS I might start up. Yes, compared to a genetic woman who's 5'2 and the same weight as me, I could potentially have an advantage. I won't know that for sure because I can't predict the severity of years of hormones and vegetarianism on my muscular structure, although the indication is that I've lost 60 pounds of muscle, I can barely squat parallel a third of what I used to ATG squat for reps, and my entire hand-eye coordination as well as other motor functions have completely changed: I seem more able to focus on doing something repetitively like running than a few quick precise steps such as an olympic lift. So if I did come back to lifting competitively, I'd probably consider myself at a handicap if anything, not only due to my height and weight, but also due to having less experience in a female body as opposed to a genetic woman who's had her entire life to get the feel and coordination of her body down.

[Hard Drive]

Originally Posted by Mindi911

That's one thing you can not escape!!!!

And women who are born with male chromosomes?

When you throw a ball you will throw it like a male, when you lift a weight you will still pick it up like a male, when you do anything even though you look like a female on the outside on the inside your wiring is still wired to male.

So throwing a ball, lifting weights and all activity is determined by genetics? That sounds pretty ground breaking, I didn't know humans were so like animals in being instinctive down to sports and day to day refined activities even.

Do I think it's fair they're allowing transsexuals into the Olympics - NO! Sorry I don't, but why the hell should a lady lose to a what is essentially a man, hell they might as well allow the girl take roids because that's essentially what they are fighting, only in it's most pure form.

I'm glad you've got such strong, vindictive opinions

You do realize you could kick my ass, right? Within 10 seconds. But I'm, "genetically male" and should therefore have some sort of advantage... as opposed to your overwhelming natural talent at martial arts and my lack thereof? I mean get real, hard ball is hard ball, guys play it but sometimes chicks wanna play it too, means they have to toughen up. Why's it so unfair if it's switched?

[Mindi911]

Originally Posted by Hard Drive

And women who are born with male chromosomes?

They are still women, I don't think you are going to see too many men who used to be women enter the Olympics some how.

So throwing a ball, lifting weights and all activity is determined by genetics? That sounds pretty ground breaking, I didn't know humans were so like animals in being instinctive down to sports and day to day refined activities even.

Hard drive stop being a prick and just read what I wrote instead of trying to misconstrue everything I said and make it sound stupid. I might of wrote what I thought in the most basic English I could but it doesn't matter how I write it. The things that separate men and women in the physical world will still be there no matter they do to you on the outside! No do you understand??? And yes we are still basically animals only we have opposable thumbs.

I'm glad you've got such strong, vindictive opinions

where did I say anything vindictive - wow you really do look at things a little skew don't you! I just said it's not fair because you can't fight genes.

And by the way you are still a male deep down inside no matter how tall you or how much you weigh.

[Hard Drive]

Saying a transwoman will always, deep down be, "male" is about as close minded as saying that an african-american will always, deep down, be submissive. In other words: fukked up. Not only that but you have no call telling me what I am and what I'm not. You can say factually that my chromosomes are male, and I was born as thus, but you cannot get, "deep" into my head and my personality and discern whether I bear significant difference from being a woman in those regards, if there's even a standard to compare it to.

There's a lot of good points for why it's unfair, and I quite agree with a lot of them. There's no way to enforce that all transsexual athletes went through adequate hormone therapy, some could have anticipated their decision to compete as a woman and deliberately altered or minimized their therapy.

Saying transmen, or men who used to be women, won't be seen often seems foolish. Why not? They have a legitimate excuse to use steroids and CONTINUE to use them, why not take advantage?

[Mindi911]

Originally Posted by Hard Drive

Saying a transwoman will always, deep down be, "male" is about as close minded as saying that an african-american will always, deep down, be submissive. In other words: fukked up. Not only that but you have no call telling me what I am and what I'm not. You can say factually that my chromosomes are male, and I was born as thus, but you cannot get, "deep" into my head and my personality and discern whether I bear significant difference from being a woman in those regards, if there's even a standard to compare it to.

Ok calm down you are getting completely the wrong end of the stick here. We are talk basic chromosomes here not personalities or anything that only those lines.

I'm not talking about what's going on your head, we already know that because otherwise you wouldn't have had a sex change in the first place. And just so you know I don't condone that at all. If you want to be a women then who's to stop you. It's what you feel on the inside.

But the basic fact of the matter is that your DNA was born male - your chromosomes haven't changed, you've just simply changed on the outside.

Now do you understand what I mean?

I'm not trying to diss you at all here hard drive - I do actually think you're a pretty cool person when you choose to listen and not have a chip on your shoulder and think the world is against you.

There's a lot of good points for why it's unfair, and I quite agree with a lot of them. There's no way to enforce that all transsexual athletes went through adequate hormone therapy, some could have anticipated their decision to compete as a woman and deliberately altered or minimized their therapy.

Saying transmen, or men who used to be women, won't be seen often seems foolish. Why not? They have a legitimate excuse to use steroids and CONTINUE to use them, why not take advantage?

I'm not saying they won't be seen, but I don't think they'd want to compete in the Olympics some how, I don't know why I think this but hey if I were a women who wanted to be a man then personally I don't think I'd suddenly be wanting to compete.

[Chris_co]

I am FTM.

I don't know completely how I feel about this. It's awesome that they're trying to be considerate to and accommodate the trans community by letting them participate in the Olympics. That shows that we have come a long way. I think it would be fair. The only reason I say this is because not all cisgender women are short and weak and not all cisgender men are tall are strong. A transwoman wouldn't have any advantage necessarily against a 200bs big and strong biofemale, just because she happened to be born with a penis. It all depends on how hard you work. Most transwomen who have undergone surgery are also taking hormones and don't have much testosterone left in their body. It's not like it's some huge, muscular guy who gets his penis removed so he can compete the Olympics. They're very feminine.

Sorry, that probably came off as a huge rant. I tried to explain myself.

I've also inquired about natural bodybuilding and fitness competitions. I don't know if I will ever reach that point, but it's interesting to learn about. I may not be eligible, no matter how hard I work, just because I'm not a cisgender male. But, that's just part of life for me. I deal with it.

[Mindi911]

Originally Posted by Chris_co

I am FTM.

I don't know completely how I feel about this. It's awesome that they're trying to be considerate to and accommodate the trans community by letting them participate in the Olympics. That shows that we have come a long way. I think it would be fair. The only reason I say this is because not all cisgender women are short and weak and not all cisgender men are tall are strong. A transwoman wouldn't have any advantage necessarily against a 200bs big and strong biofemale, just because she happened to be born with a penis. It all depends on how hard you work. Most transwomen who have undergone surgery are also taking hormones and don't have much testosterone left in their body. It's not like it's some huge, muscular guy who gets his penis removed so he can compete the Olympics. They're very feminine.

Sorry, that probably came off as a huge rant. I tried to explain myself.

I've also inquired about natural bodybuilding and fitness competitions. I don't know if I will ever reach that point, but it's interesting to learn about. I may not be eligible, no matter how hard I work, just because I'm not a cisgender male. But, that's just part of life for me. I deal with it.

No that didn't come off as a huge rant at all, in fact I thought that was very well put.

Don't you agree though that if a MTF were to compete, she'd have to train for the comp, and due to this she'd have an advantage?

[Chris_co]

Originally Posted by Mindi911

No that didn't come off as a huge rant at all, in fact I thought that was very well put.

Don't you agree though that if a MTF were to compete, she'd have to train for the comp, and due to this she'd have an advantage?

It depends on how she went about it.

She could choose to take advantage of her situation. She could stop taking her hormones and let the testosterone takeover her body again. That would put her at normal "male" levels. She could then train, and have a pretty good chance at getting bigger and stronger than most ciswomen that she would be competing against.

However, I think that's just thinking negatively. They're allowing transgender people to compete, I'm assuming, thinking that they will be honest about it. It'd be pretty much the same thing as trusting the ciswomen to not take steroids. Sure, there's always a chance that someone can abuse their position but I personally don't think it would be a common occurrence. They just want to be treated like normal men/women.

EDIT: By reading the article, it seems as though "sex reassignment surgery" to them meant castration as well as a surgery to make the penis into a vagina. But, the latter isn't important. With the castration, the woman will lose the ability to produce testosterone. So, there's no worry at all about an unfair advantage in that sense anymore. They did mention something about biomales having larger lung capacity, but I think that's just getting nit-picky.

[Hard Drive]

Mindi the chip got off my shoulder back on 08, idk where you've been

The fact remains that people will have all kinds of things separating them, called diversity. I just fail to see how one minority which could potentate an advantage as likely as a disadvantage is any different from any other wide array of talent, both physical and mental encountered globally.

I understand there's potential for abuse of the system, but the likelihood of a male abusing the system to win is about as likely as any female athlete pumping up some roids to win. Properly followed I don't believe transsexuals will wield superior upper body strength due to a complete lack of testosterone in their systems, exercise scientists came to the same conclusion. If a transsexual woman were to compete and win against genetic women, would it be demeaning to other competitors? I can't say, but I do know that when it gets to olympic competition, genetics matter as much as talent and will power and training. People call the, "genes" card as an excuse for why they can't get big or why others are bigger than them all the time on these forums, it's quite a reality. So once again, even if it WAS a significant advantage, I don't see how a 6'2 sprinter who used to be male would be any different from a 6'2 sprinter who's always been female and happens to have enough talent and genetic advantage to get to the olympics.
Because even if there was an advantage, it takes a lot more than that to make a significant lapse in the competition when you consider all the other variables: the hypothetical bit of extra strength hardly beats out when you consider women's greater flexibility due to wider coxal bones and looser joints.