Finally! My Finished Keto Diet, feel free to look

[-E-]

Hey there people, after deciding to undertake a Keto diet i felt that the carb-up method wasnt really practical for my life right now (school and other things) After help from another member on here (Eileen and others) I have cleared up most of my Keto diet questions and have decided to go with a Targeted Ketogenic Diet, as follows, feel free to tell me whats crap and what should be changed.

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Meal 1: 2 poached eggs, 2 rashers of bacon (1 rasher of bacon replaced by protein scoop on weight days)

Meal 2: Half cup (50g) of peanuts or mixed nuts

Meal 3: 100g Chicken Breast, 75 g lettuce.

Meal 4 (Pre-WO): Tuna, Mayonnaise and Sweetcorn, Banana

Meal 5 (Post-WO): Steak, Green Beans and Spinach (300 grams of pasta with chicken on weight days) Protein Scoop.

Meal 6: 4 Tablespoons Cottage Cheese

Total Calories - 1900, (maintenance calories = 2600)
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The reason I am on a Keto diet right now is to cut as much fat as possible but keep as much muscle as possible. I also have one other question, On my weights days (Wednesday and Friday) I do around 1 and 1/2 to 2 hours of weights, followed by 20 minutes high intensity cardio.

However on Monday and Thursday I do a 45 minute mid to intense cardio, approximately what amount of carbohydrates should i take in before and after my weights/cardio sessions and what amount should i take before my 45 minute cardio? Thanks a lot for any help, thanks all who helped answer my questions to get my diet together.

I havent fully stuck to the recommended Nutritional ratios for Keto but to be honest i find it hard to lose fat so im a bit paranoid about taking in huuuuge amounts of fat, and so have kept protein as my main nutrient but tried to put in a good amount of fat.

[JeepMJ]

On my weights days (Wednesday and Friday) I do around 1 and 1/2 to 2 hours of weights, followed by 20 minutes high intensity cardio.

How's that work for you? Most of what I've said is that you only have 1:15 - 1:30 before your body will goes serious with the cortisol production, which really isn't a good thing for losing fat, or maintaining/building muscle. My whole routine is designed around that concept. That and I don't mix cardio and weight lifting; I try to have at least one 'meal' between them.

Anyways, if it works for you, no worries, I guess?


And just to throw some numbers out there for you, I'd go for maybe 60g-80g total carbs for the weight lifting. I feel it is essential that you have fast acting (whey) protein while lifting though, as it will provide you body with a protein source to convert to glucose in the event that it feels that it needs to. I'm not really sure if that's sound reasoning, I've been meaning to read up on that. Anyways, works for me. And as far as the cardio sessions go, I'd try 10g of carbs and see if you can keep the intensity up. If you can't, use more. If you can, cut back until you can't! It's really all about playing with it and 'feeling' what your body is doing.

[-E-]

Thanks for the advice, i dont really understand the cortisol production thing, i mean i havent seen great improvements since doing cardio after weights but its worked slightly, could you recommend anything? I tried cardio before weights but really couldnt lift after an intense cardio session. Thanks for advice about 'feeling' my body (sounds dodgy tho ) i suppose the best way is trial and error.

[Eileen]

Breakfast looks good, but there's no need for whey, even on lifting days.

Meal 2 is good. Keep the peanuts low, and eat plenty of almonds, walnuts etc.

Meal 3: Needs fat. You are weighing your lettuce? Just eat plenty of it, and use it as a way to get in plenty of oil.

Meal 4 is a mess. Either eat a protein/carb meal or a protein/fat meal. Don't mix them. How about tuna and sweetcorn and rice, no mayo?

Meal 5 is a disaster. Post workout, you want a fast digesting protein and a high gi carb, and absolutely no fat. Keep all your protein powder for this meal. Steak is high fat and takes a long time to digest. In fact, keep your steak and spinach for meal 6.

Everyone is different, but I don't think you will need any extra carbs for 45 minutes of pure cardio unless you plan to keep the intensity sky-high all the time. If you want to cut, then cardio without carbs will do it for you.

I know it sounds against all the laws of logic, but the higher the proportion of fat you eat, the more bodyfat you lose. If you eat more protein than fat, especially when you are below maintenance calories, you are teaching your body to burn protein, not fat, for fuel. Where do you think it will look for the shortfall when it runs out of food? Yep, your hard-earned muscles. This is why traditional low-cal diets tend to cause loss of muscle, and lowering of metabolism.

[JeepMJ]

Thanks for the advice, i dont really understand the cortisol production thing, i mean i havent seen great improvements since doing cardio after weights but its worked slightly, could you recommend anything? I tried cardio before weights but really couldnt lift after an intense cardio session. Thanks for advice about 'feeling' my body (sounds dodgy tho ) i suppose the best way is trial and error.

Ideally you'd split them apart. If you're a morning person, get up and do some cardio then, and lift your weights in the evening. Or, lift your weights, have your evening meal, then do your cardio. For most people, 2 hours of weight lifting at a time is even too long, but there's not much that can be done about that unless you want to do some major resceduling.

Otherwise the body sorta goes "oh ****, he's really trying to push me" and makes cortisol, which catabolises your muscle and preserves your fat. Not to mention it has some other negative hormonal actions.


But if it works, don't mess with it.

[chimponarope]

Eileen's got the diet thing covered. The training, if you're in there 2 hours you're not going hard enough bro, no two ways around it.

Can you post your routine? I'm betting its isolation movement heavy.

[-E-]

Thanks for the advice people My routine looks like this:
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Monday: 5 minutes walking on treadmill at 10% gradient to warm up
------- 10 minutes on the stationary bike - mid intensity
20 minutes on the cross trainer - high intensity
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Tuesday: Rest
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Wednesday: Chest: 3 Sets of 8-12 reps BB Bench Press
---------- 3 X 8-12 reps Dumbell Flyes
3 X 812 reps Incline Bench Press

Triceps: 3 X 8-12 reps EZ Bar Skull Crushers
3 X 8-12 reps Close Grip Bench Press

Traps : 4 X 8-12 BB Shrugs

20 Minutes Cross Trainer - High Intensity
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Thursday : (Same as Monday)
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Friday: Shoulders : 3 X 8-12 DB Front Raises
3 X 8-12 dunno name bent over with 2 DB works rear delts
3 X 8-12 Dumbell Shoulder Press

Lats :3 X 8-12 Dumbell Rows
3 X 8-12 Lat Pulldown
3 X 8-12 Upper Back Machine (not sure of name)

Biceps: 3 X 8-12 BB Preacher Curls
3 X 8-12 Standing EZ Bar Curls
3 X 8-12 DB Bicep Curls

20 Minutes Cross Trainer - High Intensity

Yess i dont do legs but their size is sufficient right now, but im considering adding them to my routine soon. Thanks for any advice you can give to help me improve my routine and diet, cheers.

[-E-]

Eileen's got the diet thing covered. The training, if you're in there 2 hours you're not going hard enough bro, no two ways around it.

Can you post your routine? I'm betting its isolation movement heavy.

I can see what you;re saying but actual weight lifting is around 1 and a half hours, and most of that time is resting anyway cheers for any help tho.

Also, is eating no carbs before cardio is a good idea, or do i run the risk of burning muscle mass.

[Stonecoldtruth]

I can see what you;re saying but actual weight lifting is around 1 and a half hours, and most of that time is resting anyway cheers for any help tho.

Also, is eating no carbs before cardio is a good idea, or do i run the risk of burning muscle mass.

Pre-Warning, my advice may differ from others here:

#1 - If your lifting time is 1.5 hours you are either a) resting too long, b) doing too many sets, c) doing too much exercises. You should check out a lower volume higher weight plan. Something like Max-OT or HST (I'm not a big fan of HST, but something of the like) Spreading out your lifting to a 4 or 5 day split would help with that, but it can be done on a 3 day split by maximizing your compound movements and eliminating isolation work for the most part. This means that you won't hit biceps directly, you will hit them via heavy rows and pullups. You can do a couple of bicep sets, but you won't really NEED them. The triceps are hit on bench exercises as well, even more so if part of your chest routine is dips.

An ideal lifting time should be around 45 minutes WITH rest time included.

#2 - Carbs before cardio? Umm, nope. Your body is using fat as energy so it doesn't need the carbs. Carbs pre workout is more TKD.

#3 - Trust what Chimp and Eileen are saying, they KNOW by EXPERIENCE how CKD works and doesn't work.

josh

[Eileen]

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Monday: 5 minutes walking on treadmill at 10% gradient to warm up
------- 10 minutes on the stationary bike - mid intensity
20 minutes on the cross trainer - high intensity
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For this level of cardio, you definitely don't need carbs.

[Max Protein]

When it comes to working out on this plan, I'd recommend supersets. I always pair up opposing bodyparts like chest/back, biceps/triceps and shoulders/legs. It provides an aerobic as well as anaerobic workout and works your cardiovascular system as well as your muscles.

[-E-]

lol crap, i realise what my problem is here, ive written 1 and a half hours but that is the total time for my workout in the weights room, including me spotting for my training partner lol sorry bout that, it confused a lot of people, yeh the actual time i spend lifting is around 45 minutes, thanks for helping me notice that and for other advice chimp.

You see the thing is, my intentions are to have a TKD, which is why im only eating carbs when needed, thanks Eileen for advice Ive made all the changes to my diet as you recommended, would 40 grams of carbs in the form of plain pasta be sufficient for 45 minutes of weights and 20 minutes cardio?

I gotta say thanks a lot for the help here people, i owe u all one

[chimponarope]

Definitely add legs, even if its just 1 set of 20 rep breathing squats, you'll thank me for the total body growth and the metabolism increase in a few months. Squats are the king exercise no two ways about it.

You also need some form of deadlift IMO, if you have a bad back (like me) you can do partial deads in a power rack.

You're also doing more for bi's than tri's. Tri's are actually 2/3 of your arm, they should be getting at least the same work as your bi's. I'd drop an exercise for bi's personally, or at least swap one for reverse curl and hit your forearms/brachialis.

I'd drop front delts and train your side delts. You already hit the fronts 4 times a week anyway with your presses. Noone usually has lagging front delts, but lagging side delts is a common problem.

Thats just IMO of course.

[-E-]

Thanks for the help again chimp, I was considering dropping a bicep exercise anyway so thanks for confirming that. Unfortunately I have pretty lagging deltoids overall and will side lateral raises, and will take into account what you said about the squats too, suppose i'll add 3 sets of 20 reps for quads, thanks.

[Eileen]

You see the thing is, my intentions are to have a TKD, which is why im only eating carbs when needed, thanks Eileen for advice Ive made all the changes to my diet as you recommended, would 40 grams of carbs in the form of plain pasta be sufficient for 45 minutes of weights and 20 minutes cardio?

Should be loads, especially if you are taking lots of rest time in your workout.

[Max Protein]

Unfortunately I have pretty lagging deltoids overall and will side lateral raises, and will take into account what you said about the squats too, suppose i'll add 3 sets of 20 reps for quads, thanks.

Side lateral raises are more for defining, sort of as an extra concentrated effort to bring out the side delt more.
You should be doing the compound stuff that'll really get the whole shoulder girdle growing and enable you to build strength quicker like cleans, snatches and the push press. I always warm up with snatches, then go straight into the military press for shoulders and I've definitely noticed a difference than when I wasn't doing them. I also do dumbbell upright rows, pyramiding to fairly heavy weights. This is also great for overall delt and trap size.
Oh, and the Arnold Press is **** for building natural delt size. Remember - when you wanna grow, compound is the way to go!

[Orion35]

If you can, cut back until you can't! It's really all about playing with it and 'feeling' what your body is doing.

Totally agree!

Quantitatively measuring a diet, even exercise, I feel is less effective than a qualitative approach. Life in general is better experienced and appreciated, qualitatively. Your eating and workouts are part of your lifestyle, so naturally I feel it should be qualitative in order to have longevity.

Quantitative measures are good for a guideline, a starting point. But ultimately, in the long run, it's the qualitative measures that matter.

For example, Atkins approach states to eat until you are full, but not stuffed. You don't count grams of fat, protein, carbs, or calories.

I also just want to say that, if you really want to understand what kind of diet and exercise regimen works for you, then you have to educate yourself.

That means when peers or even experts suggest something, immediately ask yourself, "WHY?". Why do they say to do that? Does it complement your goals? What's the reasoning behind their advice? What's the science behind it? Find it corroborated through other sources besides just your peers, or just scientific studies.

I think it's a lot more efficient to educate yourself, then to have to explain yourself to each person (and to REALLY convey your needs and goals completely, including all the details and exceptions like food intolerances, diabetes, physical injuries, lifestyle constraints, ETC.).

[-E-]

Thanks for all the help, i dont seem to be achieving ketosis tho as i havent got the sweet taste thing, gonna get some ketostix soon tho, thanks.

[smackdaddyD]

Something to think about in your decision to not yet work your legs...

Every muscle that you can put into repair mode is another muscle burning calories when you're resting. You have sooo much muscle mass in your legs that it's like an untapped gold mind of calorie burning if you ignore them.

A lot of people ignore their back, a lot of people ignore their legs. Work these huge expanses of muscle! Your metabolism will shoot through the roof.