What is it about the e/c stack that makes it work?

[SCG]

Like the title says, I've read countless times that this is the true fatloss stack to use, but what is it that makes it work? The increased blood pressure? something else? I'm not trying to ask a stupid question, just trying to understand how and why it works is all.

[gaberox]

Mostly appetite supression IMO.Extra energy helps also.Not sure how much it actually raises the number of cals burned on its own.Either way its effective.

[Lonny]

Originally Posted by gaberox

Mostly appetite supression IMO.Extra energy helps also.Not sure how much it actually raises the number of cals burned on its own.Either way its effective.

Correct. The appetite suppression and ability for it to make you forget about eating, as well as the increase in motivation to do cardio or train better, or all those other fun things.

There is a small increase in caloric rate, but its mostly from the lack of calories you are putting into yourself.

[G.W. Hayduke]

I'll tell you secret behind why it works...

It's the E and the C.

[SCG]

So basically what you guys are saying is if you have willpower an e/c stack will do nothing for you? I'm not lazy in the gym and I can control my eating habits easily, if theres no other benefit theres really no point taking it then? I thought maybe it caused some sort of thermogenesis in the body or something, is there a product I could stack e/c with to make it a good thermogenic?

[R_N_S]

i just read some ad for an ephedrine product saying it could increase your metabolic rate by "up to 10%". Ads bull**** in the first place, but say it did increase the calories you burned by 10%. Say you usually burn 3000 calories, now you burn 3300; this obviously isn't how these "fatburners" work.

If you can control your eating, a good diet will be all you need.

[slash347]

Thermogenics (the E and the C) increase your body temperature by almost 1 degree F. Chemical reactions are quicker at higher temperatures, and your metabolism is your body's set of chemical reactions, hence your metabolism is sped up by the increased core temperature. Since 50-60% of the total calories your body burns is from your BMR, a thermogenic is a smart thing to take for fat loss. I have heard they increase calories burned from the BMR by 9-13%, so I don't think 10% is a bull**** number.

[R_N_S]

you're classifying all thermogenics as the same effectiveness? even if they do increase calories burned, what's 10% 300 calories? just cut out a small snack and you save money and stress on your body. I don't see the point of them personally, especially since most of them do nothing anyway.

[fitnfirm]

In alot of people it just makes you not want to eat, so less calories equals more weight loss. I like stims for energy purpose, If I get a few extra calories burned thru thermo fine, just a small added plus.

[bodybuilder45]

Originally Posted by slash347

Thermogenics (the E and the C) increase your body temperature by almost 1 degree F. Chemical reactions are quicker at higher temperatures, and your metabolism is your body's set of chemical reactions, hence your metabolism is sped up by the increased core temperature. Since 50-60% of the total calories your body burns is from your BMR, a thermogenic is a smart thing to take for fat loss. I have heard they increase calories burned from the BMR by 9-13%, so I don't think 10% is a bull**** number.

great post! ephedra stimulates the central nervous system which is a common way to lose weight. stimulating the thyroid is another common mechanism used for weight loss. i believe ephedra is a beta 1,2, and 3 antagonist. its very synergistic with caffeine and when dosed a couple times daily, can increase metabolism quite a bit. chris aceto states in his book "Championship Bodybuilding" that ECA with a small amount of borage oil taken 3 times daily may increase metabolism by up to 20%. even if its only 400 calories per day, thats 1 pound of fat in 9 days while keeping diet constant. not bad if you ask me.

[armz_ha]

heard ec increases thermagenisis of about 3-7% in most people. this is good!

[beer20]

How does ephedrine work?

One of the reasons ephedrine is such a powerful agent is that it operates through a variety of mechanisms, including increasing levels of norepinephrine, epinephrine, and dopamine, and stimulating both alpha and beta adrenoreceptors. Appetite suppression - Ephedrine (through facilitating the release of adrenaline and noradrenaline) stimulates the alpha(1)-adrenoreceptor subtype, which is known to induce hypophagia (appetite suppression) (9, 10). It is estimated that appetite supression accounts for 75-80% of the weight loss attributed to ephedrine (2, 4).

Increased energy expenditure - 50 mg of ephedrine alone increases total energy expenditure by about 4% when administered acutely (11), but 60 mg per day increases metabolic rate by 10% when used chronically (12). Although beta(1), beta(2), and beta(3)-adrenoreceptors all play a role in ephedrine-induced thermogenesis, the fact that tolerance develops quickly to most of the cardiovascular effects but the thermogenic effects appear to be enhanced over time may be explained by direct activation of beta(3) or "atypical" adrenoreceptors (10), which is responsible for at least 40% of the thermogenesis induced by ephedrine (13).

Increased protein synthesis - Similar to clenbuterol, which is commonly used to lose fat while maintaining muscle, ephedrine is a beta(2) agonist. Stimulating the beta(2)-adrenoreceptors increases protein synthesis and counteracts the catabolism of muscle commonly seen with low calorie diets (10).

http://www.ironmagazine.com/review47.html

[bodybuilder45]

nice find beer20. thats a great read. by any chance, do you know the rate at which protein synthesis is increased. ive heard the anabolic properties of ephedra are very minor but anything is better than nothing. also, does anyone know anything to help with the upregulation of beta receptors? ive heard benadryl might help but not completely sure on this. any others that assist adrenoreceptors?

[CHUCK DIESEL]

Originally Posted by skinnychubbyguy

Like the title says, I've read countless times that this is the true fatloss stack to use, but what is it that makes it work? The increased blood pressure? something else? I'm not trying to ask a stupid question, just trying to understand how and why it works is all.

ephedrine activates receptors that burn fat, caffeine basically puts fat into the blood steam to be burned.

[Stomp]

Originally Posted by rippednshredded

you're classifying all thermogenics as the same effectiveness? even if they do increase calories burned, what's 10% 300 calories? just cut out a small snack and you save money and stress on your body. I don't see the point of them personally, especially since most of them do nothing anyway.

You don`t need dramatic calorie reductions when you have been dieting for some time. 300 calories is quite enough, especially when you no longer do more cardio or cut down carbs/fat.

[pcinternet]

Originally Posted by beer20

http://www.ironmagazine.com/review47.html

Thanks a lot beer20 thats what I was looking for...

[CHUCK DIESEL]

Originally Posted by bodybuilder45

great post! ephedra stimulates the central nervous system which is a common way to lose weight. stimulating the thyroid is another common mechanism used for weight loss. i believe ephedra is a beta 1,2, and 3 antagonist. its very synergistic with caffeine and when dosed a couple times daily, can increase metabolism quite a bit. chris aceto states in his book "Championship Bodybuilding" that ECA with a small amount of borage oil taken 3 times daily may increase metabolism by up to 20%. even if its only 400 calories per day, thats 1 pound of fat in 9 days while keeping diet constant. not bad if you ask me.

ephedrine is an antagonist of Beta 1-3 and alpha's also.....but even a 10% increase in 24hEE is good because for someone exp. of 3,000 cals a day, thats 9,000 cals a month, almost 3 lbs of fat gone a month without doing anything different.

E also increases your thermogenic response to food and excercise, so the actual net cals. burned in addition to RMR is higher than 10%. Esp. when stacked with C.

[bodybuilder45]

Originally Posted by CHUCK DIESEL

E also increases your thermogenic response to food and excercise, so the actual net cals. burned in addition to RMR is higher than 10%.

now that, i didnt know. so the percentage of calories burned during exercise exceed the 10% increase? thats what i got out of your post. i also had no idea it increases the thermic effect of food. man, i wish it didnt give me such a bad crash or id use it more than once or twice per week. im scared of continuous use for anything over 4 weeks on E cause i get dependent and addicted.

[Lonny]

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is its use as an anti-catabolic, and it does have synergy with numerous supplements. Forskolin being one of the best for this purpose.

[pu12en12g]

Originally Posted by skinnychubbyguy

Like the title says, I've read countless times that this is the true fatloss stack to use, but what is it that makes it work? The increased blood pressure? something else? I'm not trying to ask a stupid question, just trying to understand how and why it works is all.

Complete info:
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=555239

[CHUCK DIESEL]

Originally Posted by bodybuilder45

now that, i didnt know. so the percentage of calories burned during exercise exceed the 10% increase? thats what i got out of your post. i also had no idea it increases the thermic effect of food. man, i wish it didnt give me such a bad crash or id use it more than once or twice per week. im scared of continuous use for anything over 4 weeks on E cause i get dependent and addicted.

Yeah, you can have a 25% increase in EE for about 6-10 hours after a hard workout while on E and C (not accute E and C but 2-3X a day). Same with food, a certain amount of the food you eat is burned off as heat, sometimes about 3-5% but on E, somepeople burn 10% or more off total cals consumed instantly to produce heat.

I know on E+C, when I was younger, I could eat probably 800 more cals a day and still lose about 4lbs a month. And thats at about 20mg of e a day and about 400mg of C. But the harder you train the more you burn.

[CHUCK DIESEL]

Originally Posted by Lonny

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is its use as an anti-catabolic, and it does have synergy with numerous supplements. Forskolin being one of the best for this purpose.

Yep and green tea. Its syng. with Forskolin bc forskolin increases Camp, so when E hits that receptor and cAMP goes up.........it goes up higher because of the Forskolin without increasing side effects because cAMP doesnt have an effect on beta 2's, etc.,

[stEam_B()at]

are their any good product out their that offer E & C in one pill.i know their must be many but which ones are good?

[R_N_S]

what's wrong with buying vasopro and prolab/primaforce/somethin else caffeine? I'm guessin that's cheaper

[W8isGR8]

"The effects of the ECA stack in weight loss are primarily due to the ephedrine component. Ephedrine acts as a beta agonist and stimulates the release of noradrenaline. The noradrenaline in the body then acts on brown adipose tissue [Please Note: Human adults have little to no brown adipose tissue... this section needs to be corrected!] by increasing cAMP levels, which is said to be a thermogenic effect, raising body temperature by about 2 degrees and increasing the user's metabolism by 10% in conjunction with the rest of the stack.

However, the body's negative feedback system then activates to normalize the metabolism. This is done via the production of phosphodiesterase inside the cells, and prostaglandins outside the cell, which both lower cAMP levels within the cell.

Caffeine inhibits the production of phosphodiesterase inside the cell and therefore slows the cAMP breakdown. It also, in binding with adenosine receptors in the brain, triggers the release of adrenaline which increases cAMP levels further.

Aspirin inhibits prostaglandin production outside of the cells, which, in conjunction with caffeine, greatly prolongs the thermogenic effects and increased metabolism by substaining elevated cAMP levels.

Ephedrine also has an anorectic, or appetite suppressant effect. The mechanisms behind this are not fully understood, but this aids in weight loss as well. However, these effects only last for about two weeks if the stack is not cycled as the body becomes tolerant to ephedrine to some degree. It is estimated that 60%–75% of the weight loss from using the ECA stack comes from the anorectic effect, and the remainder from thermogenesis.

The final component in weight loss of the ECA stack is that of a simple stimulant; the higher adrenaline and noradrenaline levels result in increased aerobic exercise performance and less fatigue."

[beer20]

Originally Posted by stEam_B()at

are their any good product out their that offer E & C in one pill.i know their must be many but which ones are good?

its better to keep them separate so you can adjust one or the other accordingly.

[cxm]

Originally Posted by beer20

its better to keep them separate so you can adjust one or the other accordingly.

and you tell me I have problems

[beer20]

Originally Posted by cxm

and you tell me I have problems

its easier to see your own problems in someone else before you see it in yourself....

[Lonny]

Originally Posted by stEam_B()at

are their any good product out their that offer E & C in one pill.i know their must be many but which ones are good?

No, and if there are they are overpriced from paying extremely large insurance premiums. Buy any brand of caffeine and buy ephedrine.

[turkish]

Originally Posted by rippednshredded

what's wrong with buying vasopro and prolab/primaforce/somethin else caffeine? I'm guessin that's cheaper

I've said it before, I'll say it again : D&E Pharm's Bolt pure e hcl is a much better deal than Vasopro and it doesn't have the unnecessary guanafesin or whatever that sh|t is.