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  1. #1
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    WEEK SIXTY-SEVEN :: Is There A Difference Between The Various Forms Of Creatine?

    * Note: How can I win? Answer all questions in the order that they are asked.
    ------------------------------------------------------------

    TOPIC: Is There A Difference Between The Various Forms Of Creatine?

    For the week of: March 9th - March 15th
    Wednesday @ Midnight Is The Final Cut (Mountain Time, US & Canada).

    -------------------------------------------------------------

    There seems to be newer and newer forms of creatine hitting the market all the time. Monohydrate, liquid, creatine ethyl-ester, dicreatine malate, micronized, kre-alkalyn, and effervescent are just a few different types of creatine.

    Is there a difference between the various forms of creatine?

    Which is the best form of creatine? Why?

    Which is the worst form of creatine? Why?

    Should you change forms of creatine when changing your goals, such as bulking/cutting?

    Bonus Question: Is creatine getting better as technology is getting better, or is nothing as good as the original? What do you see in the future for creatine?

    -------------------------------------------------------------

    Don't discuss any other topic in this section. ONLY discuss the question above.

    The best response will get $75 in credit to use in our online store! The other good responses will be used in an article on the main Bodybuilding.com site, with the poster's forum name listed by it. Become famous!

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  2. #2
    there is no offseason mivi320's Avatar
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    Is There A Difference Between The Various Forms Of Creatine?


    Intro

    Creatine is an essential supplement for those looking to become stronger, faster, and bigger. Athletes and bodybuilders use creatine in their supplementation programs to enhance performance, recovery, and strength levels.

    If you happen to pay even the slightest attention to what's going on in the bodybuilding supplementation world, you'll notice that several new creatines have hit the market. Creatine monohydrate seems ancient compared to all the new forms of creatine.

    Creatine ethyl-ester, monohydrate, dicreatine malate, micronized, kre-alkalyn, effervescent, and liquid creatine...which one is the best?

    Is there a difference between the various forms of creatine?


    Yes, each creatine is different.

    Each creatine has different properties and special characteristics - therefore each creatine is distinct. Let's take an in-depth look at the various forms of creatine and their special properties.
    • Creatine Monohydrate

    Creatine Monohydrate is the oldest form of creatine in the supplement business - and unlike other creatines, monohydrate has scientific research favoring it's effectiveness.

    Studies have shown that creatine monohydrate elevates energy levels (which conclusively increases performance), increases stamina levels, and speeds up recovery rates!

    Some users experience bloating and retain water when taking creatine monohydrate, which is a big drawback. However, when it comes to effectiveness and results - creatine monohydrate is unprecedented!

    Creatine monohydrate is also extremely affordable and is by far the cheapest and most effective form of creatine on the market.

    Writer's choice:
    PrimaForce CreaForm (http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/prima/crea.html)
    • Creatine Ethyl Ester (CEE)

    Creatine Ethyl Ester (CEE) is basically creatine monohydrate with an ester attached.

    The advantage CEE has over creatine monohydrate is that CEE is better absorbed by the body. Therefore, there is absolutely no "bloat" or water retention with CEE - hence the better absorption.

    Users who fail to respond to creatine monohydrate usually respond very well to supplementing with CEE.

    CEE tends to be more expensive than monohydrate - but if better absorption and no "bloat" float your boat, CEE is well worth the price!

    Writer's choice:
    Higher Power Creatine Ethyl Ester (http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/hp/ester.html)
    • Tri-Creatine Malate

    Tri-creatine malate is a compound extracted from creatine monohydrate and malic acid. The compound is made from a total of three creatine molecules attached to one molecule of malic acid - hence "tri-creatine" meaning three creatine molecules.

    Once creatine monohydrate and malic acid create the compound Tri-creatine malate, this yields a much more water-soluble creatine and decreases the possibility of gastric problems - a common problem with creatine monohydrate.

    There have been cases where users of Tri-creatine malate notice significant improvements in terms of recovery and stamina from exercise.

    Anecdotally, I have also noticed a substantial increase in rate of recovery and endurance when I supplemented with a Tri-creatine malate (S.A.N. V-12 Turbo).

    Tri-creatine malate is generally incorporated into products that include nitric oxide and other proprietary blends - therefore the price is typically more than regular monohydrate or CEE for that matter.

    When it comes to feeling better recovered, more energized, and experiencing a big increase in endurance, Tri-creatine malate products are just what you're looking for!

    Writer's choice:
    S.A.N. V-12 Turbo (http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/san/vt.html)

    • Micronized Creatine

    Micronized creatine has a much smaller particle size than creatine monohydrate. This smaller particle size means quicker efficiency.

    Micronized creatine is also much more pure - as it undergoes several purification processes. This greater purity enhances it's effectiveness and efficiency!

    Micronized creatine also mixes better than monohydrate and doesn't cause any gastric discomfort!

    When it comes to better uptake, better utilization, and purity, micronized creatine takes the prize. The only downfall to micronized creatine is that it's generally more expensive than creatine monohydrate.

    Writer's choice:
    AST Micronized Creatine (http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/as...ocreatine.html)

    • Kre-alkalyn

    Kre-Alkalyn can be defined as "buffered creatine" which fails to convert into creatinine before entering the skeletal muscle tissue.

    There have absolutely no studies no kre-alkalyn to this date. The only evidence for this type of creatine is that of the users who have included kre-alkalyn in their supplement regimen.

    For the most part, the feedback has been good. Users report less "bloat" and immediate results with no loading phase.

    I used kre-alkalyn just a few months ago and experienced nothing amazing. I still got the "creatine bloat" and actually looked less "fuller." I could simply be a non-responder to kre-alkalyn, but seeing that there is no scientific studies on this form of creatine, I'm still skeptical of it's efficiency.
    Last edited by mivi320; 03-10-2006 at 08:41 PM.
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  3. #3
    there is no offseason mivi320's Avatar
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    continued......

    • Liquid Creatine

    Liquid creatine products are generally supposed to cause less bloating and water retention than other creatines.

    The jury is still out on this form of creatine. Many people think that creatine can not be stable in the form of liquid, while others report of amazing results after usage.

    Other creatines, namely creatine monohydrate, tend to bind with food - thus interfering with it's digestion.

    Liquid creatine completely bypasses the entire digestion phase - making it's absorption rate very fast!

    Now, you can easily eat a full meal and supplement with your liquid creatine, and experience absolutely no digestion or gastric upset problems!

    Writer's choice:

    MMUSA ATP Advantage Creatine Serum (http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/mm/atp.html)

    • Effervescent Creatine

    Effervescent creatine is essentially a creatine with superior mixability, taste, and solubility.

    Most effervescent creatine products contain a heft amount of sugar - which increases the uptake of creatine in the muscle cells.

    I hate to burst your bubble, but creatine with added sugar is not necessary. This is an old school way of taking creatine and times have changed.

    The bottom line is that creatine products with loads of sugar in them aren't necessary. The last time I checked, bodybuilders try to limit the amount of sugar in their diet.

    Imagine taking in loads of sugar every time you take your creatine. I'm positive you'll get big...in the midsection that is!

    • Di-Creatine Malate

    Di-Creatine malate is creatine attached to malic acid. Di-Creatine malate, similar to Tri-Creatine malate, is very soluble and maximizes ATP production very effectively.

    It is the writer's opinion that this form of creatine is phenomenal in terms of maximizing energy production and delivering surreal pumps!

    Which is the best form of creatine? Why?

    Creatine monohydrate.

    No other creatine has been scientifically proven in studies to be as effective as the ancient creatine monohydrate. It has been thoroughly researched and it's anecdotal data reported by users has been nothing short of amazing!

    I have used many forms of creatine in the past - and I must say, I got the best results when I used creatine monohydrate.

    Contrary to others' experience, I encountered absolutely no "creatine bloat" when using creatine monohydrate.

    For those who do experience the "bloat" while on creatine monohydrate, deal with it. The effectiveness, quality, and other amazing properties clearly surpass the infinitesimal drawbacks including the "creatine bloat" and water retention.

    Which is the worst form of creatine? Why?

    Effervescent creatine.

    To be quite frank, mixing sugar with creatine is just plain silly.

    The idea of slamming back extra calories coming from pure sugar in hopes of increasing the uptake of your creatine at any other time besides post workout is literally asking for an excess accumulation of adipose tissue.

    The bottom line is that unless you don't mind having a spare tire, refrain from mixing creatine with sugary drinks - as most effervescent creatines tend to do.

    Creatine can be absorbed by skeletal muscle without the aid of sugar.

    Should you change forms of creatine when changing your goals, such as bulking/cutting?

    Yes.

    When bulking, gaining muscle mass and strength is the main goal. Bulking entails eating an excess amount of calories and lifting heavy as possible in hopes of gaining mass. As a result, some fat mass is also accumulated. But hey, you have to get a little bit ugly before you get pretty.

    Most “bulkers” tend to get bloated when bulking anyway; therefore, creatine monohydrate would be a perfect addition.

    When cutting, you want as little water retention as possible - especially if you're preparing for a competition. Therefore, CEE, Tri-creatine malate, and Di-creatine malate are all fine choices for cutting as they tend be "bloat free" creatine products.

    Is creatine getting better as technology is getting better, or is nothing as good as the original?


    Honestly, I'm impressed with some of the scientific advancements regarding creatine. CEE is a somewhat new creatine on the market and has been proven anecdotally by a plethora of users already.

    But I think when you examine the grand scheme of things, creatine monohydrate is and always will be the "king of creatines." No other creatine has science working for them. The studies, research, and data is all there.

    What do you see in the future for creatine?

    I see the bodybuilding supplementation market delivering several new forms of creatine in the future. None of them will be able to compete with the old veteran - also known as good ol' creatine monohydrate.



    Live life to the fullest,



    Mike
    Last edited by mivi320; 03-10-2006 at 08:42 PM.
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  4. #4
    The one and only bigcalves's Avatar
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    nice one man. expect a good one from me too this week
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  5. #5
    there is no offseason mivi320's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    Originally Posted by bigcalves
    nice one man. expect a good one from me too this week
    Thanks BC.

    Bring on the competition
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  6. #6
    Proud Arab! RippedJordanian's Avatar
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    im gettin mine ready, i am so pissed off lol i have to win first place. All ive ever won is 3rd for the past 4 months. Hey mivi why do u post your article now, ur giving chance to other people totake some of ur ideas? I usually post mine on the last day
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  7. #7
    The one and only bigcalves's Avatar
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    good stagedy!

    But if someone posts something similar to yours first, it makes you look like you are copyin from them even though you did it earlier, so it's a double edged sword..
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  8. #8
    Echo In Eternity J-Rod's Avatar
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    You forgot to mention Creatine Orotate.

    You can read up on it here:

    http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/man/orotine.html
    Joey Rodrigues
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  9. #9
    Proud Arab! RippedJordanian's Avatar
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    how many ppl are planning to enter? is it only me and mivi? coz im gonna post mine 5 ocklock
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  10. #10
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    Originally Posted by RippedJordanian
    how many ppl are planning to enter? is it only me and mivi? coz im gonna post mine 5 ocklock
    ahh the element of surprise
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  11. #11
    Proud Arab! RippedJordanian's Avatar
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    LOL bring it on!
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    Proud Arab! RippedJordanian's Avatar
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    My Creatine Article

    Plz find my article attached
    Attached Files
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    Smile Does creatine need to be taken every day

    Does creatine (CEE or micronized creatine) need to be taken every day? Even on non-training days? and on training days is it better to take it before or after the workout?
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  14. #14
    Proud Arab! RippedJordanian's Avatar
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    yes everyday, follow the instructions on the jar. but usually, before workout.
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  15. #15
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    Creatine

    Creatine is currently the most popular and most commonly used sports supplement. It is the number one selling supplement, sales are estimated at around $100-200 million dollars a year, and can benefit any athlete looking for an increase in strength, mass, and overall endurance. However, all you find in the media, the magazines, and on television are people speaking about creatine who are grossly misinformed. I am here to shed some light on the subject of creatine and its many (new) forms and the one dinosaur that you won’t find in any museums, creatine monohydrate.

    Creatine: A Brief Overview

    Many people know of creatine, and what it is used for, but many actually lack the knowledge of what creatine really is. It is the result of a combination of three amino acids (methionine, glycine, and arginine). Creatine, short for methyl guanidine acetic acid, can be found in your own body…in about 120 grams that are stored as creatine phospate. (Creatine phosphate will be further discussed later on in this article.) Many foods that can be found in your local supermarket, such as beef and salmon, are high in creatine, but the creatine that can be gained from pounds of those foods can be found in as little as one scoop of creatine.

    Adenosine triphosphate, or ATP, is basically the “power” behind your muscles (i.e. engine to car). Creatine’s primary use is for the re-synthesis, or re-storage, of the muscles ATP. The science behind this is complicated, but basically, when you lift weights, you contract your muscles, which requires the bonds that are found in ATP to split, leaving you with adenosine diphospate, or ADP. When this bond is broken, the cell is given power and the contraction occurs. When the cells entire build up of ATP has been called upon, however, that cell cannot contract any longer. Then, the body must rebuilds its stores of ATP, and there are several ways this can be done. However, we are only concerned with the use of creatine phosphate, which also happens to be the fastest way, without the use of oxygen. When creatine phosphate is split, it yields the “phosphate” part of the molecule. Then, this phosphate combines, or bonds, with the ADP to again from ATP. Thus, supplementation with creatine, and further creatine phosphate, allows for quicker regeneration of the ATP within the cells. More simply, creatine enhances your output when lifting weights.

    What does all of this mean?

    As I said, creatine phosphate is used to replenish the bodies stores ATP, and increase the amount of creatine that is found in the muscle. However, the body’s actual level of natural creatine and creatine phosphate is well below that of which it can actually hold. Thus, increasing the level of creatine intake means that you can reach your body’s “maximum holding level” of creatine phospate. Also, it appears that when one supplements with creatine, the ability for the muscle to hold glycogen is enhanced. Glycogen is an intramuscular (found inside the muscles) carbohydrate that fuels anaerobic activities that the cardiopulmonary system cannot, i.e. heavy weightlifting. Many studies have shown that increasing glycogen stores leads to added recovery and muscle hypertrophy, or muscle growth. Therefore, because glycogen requires added water to enter into the cell, it leads to added muscle mass and fuller muscles.


    That’s all good and well, but…


    Is there a difference between the various forms of creatine?

    Simply put, yes, each and every creatine is different. There are many different forms of creatine, from creatine monohydrate to creatine ethyl ester to creatine orotate. The following is a look into each of the common types of creatines:

    Creatine Ethyl Ester

    Creatine Ethyl Ester, or CEE, is your basic monohydrate with an ester attached. Those esters are formed by a process known as esterification, which is the reaction of carboxylic acids and alcohols. Creatine monohydrate has many studies that show that it increases the overall muscle mass of your body, however, the uptake of regular monohydrate is very poor. As I said, CEE is monohydrate with an extra ester….but what does that added ester mean? Basically, it means that it has all of the same benefits of monohydrate, but the dosage requirements are lower, there is no loading phase, increased absorption, and that the “creatine bloat” will be no more. Many non-responders also find themselves responding to CEE.

    My Favorite
    Primaforce CEE
    http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/prima/ceepow.html
    Rating: 4.25 out of 5 stars
    Why?
    Creatine Ethyl Ester has all of the basic benefits of the famous monohydrate, but the added ester allows the body to absorb it much easier. Primaforce CEE is one of the cheapest and most effective CEE supplements around. Very solid.



    Creatine Monohydrate

    Creatine monohydrate is bar none, the most popular bodybuilding supplement. It is the original form of creatine that was introduced to the public over ten years ago. Thus, it is the most studied form of creatine and has the most scientific evidence, out of all the newer forms of creatine, to prove that is truly effective. It has been shown to increase athletic performance, added stamina, and to improve the rate of recovery.

    Creatine monohydrate has been shown to produce some negative side effects. However, it all depends on whether or not you personally will tend to experience them, or not. The most commonly reported side effects are bloating, cramping (stomach), and cases of diarrhea. But as long as you drink enough water, you will likely avoid any problems that would arise from supplementation with monohydrate. No matter what, the positives certainly outweigh the negatives.

    My Favorite
    Prolab Creatine Monohydrate
    http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/pl/creatine.html
    Rating: 3.75 out of 5 stars
    Why?
    Prolab Creatine Monohydrate is one of the cheapest and most effective monohydrates around. This certainly won’t hit your wallet as hard as some of the other forms of creatine will.

    Micronized Creatine Monohydrate

    Micronized creatine monohydrate is a newer form of creatine monohydrate that sets a new standard for the world’s regular creatine monohydrates. The science behind micronized monohydrate is that the “micro-particles” are actually twenty times smaller than in the original monohydrate. Although this process adds to the cost, it is just slightly, and the added benefits are worth the additional costs. Some added benefits of micronized creatine monohydrate are faster absorption, higher efficiency, added purity, mixes easier/less “clumping”, and no more upset stomachs.

    My Favorite
    Higher Power Micronized Creatine Monohydrate
    http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/hp/creatine.html
    Rating: 3.5 out of 5 stars
    Why?
    Higher Power is one of the cheapest, in terms of price not quality, brands around. This micronized monohydrate has all the benefits of regular monohydrate without the negative side effects.
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  16. #16
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    Tri-Creatine Malate

    When you combine creatine monohydrate and malic acid, the result is a white, odorless powder known as tri-creatine malate. It is made from three creatine molecules that are attached to one malic acid molecule, hence the name tri-creatine malate.

    When this compound is formed, it is said to be more soluble in water than your basic creatine monohydrate. What this eliminates is the possibility of any gastric/intestinal disruption, and also effects the ATP cycle more efficiently than basic monohydrate. Also, tri-creatine malate is said to more bioavailable than the other forms of creatine.

    My Favorite
    Dymatize XPand
    http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/dym/xpand.html
    Rating: 2.75 out of 5 stars
    Why?
    Xpand offers quality ingredients for a very low price. Very good product, and also, a very effective creatine for building muscle mass and increased stamina.

    Kre-Alkalyn

    Kre-Alkalyn is said to have the benefits of regular creatine, without the side effects associated with regular creatine monohydrate. The results of creatine monohydrate supplementation is very well documented, thus many people believe Kre-Alkalyn will have the same ergogenic abilities.

    Kre-Alkalyn is produced at a higher PH level than your basic creatine monohydrate. Many belive that the conversion of creatine into creatinine is directly related to the functions of PH levels, and that the resulting conversion of creatine into creatinine, a waster product, can be avoided by manipulating the PH level. Thus, stopping this conversion will allow better absorption, and less creatine is necessary.

    My Favorite
    Sci-Fit Kre-Alkalyn 1500
    http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/sf/kre.html
    Rating: 2.45 out of 5 stars
    Why?
    I like the affordability of Sci-Fit Kre-Alkalyn, however, I feel Kre-Alkalyn lacks any actually scientific proof to the claims it makes. If it works for you, though, it should be a very useful creatine, and is definitely worth the addition into your supplement arsenal.

    Liquid Creatine

    Although liquid creatine is supposedly better absorbed by the body there is much skepticism as to whether or not it actually raises the body’s creatine levels. There are those who love liquid creatine and then there are those who believe that creatine will not be stable in a liquid form over time because it breaks down to creatinine.

    Since liquid creatine bypasses your body’s digestion phase, the body absorbs it more efficiently and quicker. Creatine in the powdered form take at least forty-five minutes to one hour, and since it is known to bind to food, the absorbance is hindered. Hence, many athletes who exercise will not eat several hours before exercise in order to increase the rate of uptake of the monohydrate, but with liquid creatine, this is not a problem. Many tend to stick to basic powders because they are cheaper, but if money is not an issue, liquid creatines are an option. Liquid creatine is something that works on a person to person basis, and it is recommended that you try it for yourself before passing any judgments.

    My Favorite
    DIMAXX Muscle Creatine +
    http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/di/creatine.html
    Rating: 1.25 out of 5 stars
    Why?
    It is cheaper per serving than the other leading liquid creatine, MMUSA ATP Advantage Creatine Serum, and thus, you get more servings for your money.

    Effervescent Creatine

    Effervescent creatine is a new trend that is catching on with some bodybuilders and athletes. People prefer effervescent creatine due to the added taste, increased absorption, added solubility, and the lack of bloating that regular powdered creatines do not offer. As an added bonus, the sugar in effervescent creatines might increase the rate of uptake of the creatine into the cells. Although, the added carbohydrates aren’t need, and thus, effervescent creatines are not recommended.

    My Favorite
    Dymative Crea-Fizz
    http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/dym/creafizz.html
    Rating: 1 out of 5 stars
    Why?
    I just don’t believe in effervescent creatines. Although the taste is better, they lack any scientific evidence as to whether or not they really work. My advice: look elsewhere.

    Which is the best form of creatine?

    Creatine Ethyl Ester.

    Why?
    Creatine Ethyl Ester (CEE) is the new craze in the bodybuilding world. However, it is not a trend that is likely to die out quickly. CEE has all of the benefits of regular monohydrate, plus some. It builds muscle mass and increases stamina in ways that only monohydrate has been shown to do. However, CEE does not lead to the infamous “creatine bloat” that results from monohydrate usage. There is no loading phase, no maintenance phase, and no complicated cycling. Simply, you keep your daily consumption constant at around 2.5-3 grams post-workout on training days, and on non-training days, you can take it in the morning, on an empty stomach. Also, it is just as affordable as regular monohydrate. What isn’t there to like?

    Which is the worst form of creatine?

    Liquid Creatine.

    Why?

    Creatine does not, in my opinion, stay stable in liquids. Thus, the idea of liquid creatines is not a great one. Although some people swear by them, just as many feel no increased strength and see no improvements in overall mass. The ideas are there, there just needs to be more scientific research and more scientific backing.

    Should you change forms of creatine when changing your goals, such as bulking/cutting?

    It all depends on which forms of creatine you are using. In my opinion, the only creatine that it is necessary to cycle off of is creatine monohydrate. Monohydrate is infamous for the added water weight and the bloating, thus, when cutting, it is not optimal for fat loss and water loss. When cutting, you might want to switch to a more absorbable form of creatine, such as CEE or Micronized Monohydrate. However, if you use anything other than Monohydrate when bulking, it is not necessary to cycle off when cutting.

    There you have it folks….a quick overview of the common creatines. As always, thanks for reading, and see you next time. God bless!

    God bless,
    Kyle


    Bonus Question: Is creatine getting better as technology is getting better, or is nothing as good as the original? What do you see in the future for creatine?

    As always, as time goes on, something will improve. It is the same when it comes to creatine. New creatines, such as creatine orotate and creatine citrate, are being discovered as new scientific experiments are done. All they need is a little bit more fine tuning and for the price to drop a bit, and they too will be mainstream creatines.

    In the future, I’d like to see liquid creatines made more effective. I love the idea of injecting creating into the bloodstream, however, I currently fear the breakdown of creatine into creatinine. If they can perfect that, liquid creatine will be very, very popular in the future.
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  17. #17
    The Arbitrator Tarkana's Avatar
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    The Difference Among Creatines

    Creatine is an amino acid formed from arginine, glycine and methionine that is normally obtained through the typical diet from meat in amounts usually around 2 grams, and over the many years of bodybuilding, as well as lifting for strength and athletic power, it has become one of the most well known supplements. This is because it was an early supplement that was proven both by science and by feedback to be effective. Now that creatine can be gotten at a very low cost and still give noticeable effects in size and strength increase, it has become one of the most widely used supplements, probably trailing only protein powder and multivitamins. Whatís happened recently, though, is that the original creatine monohydrate is no longer the only form of creatine to choose from since a large assortment of various forms has been brought to the market.

    The Various Forms

    There are many forms of creatine available now. Creatine monohydrate comes in a few forms: micronized, effervescent and liquid. There is also Kre-Alkalyn, Di/Tri-creatine malate, creatine ethyl ester, magnesium creatine chelate, creatine orotate and creatine alpha ketoglutarate. Each of these forms, though still creatine in its nature, is still a different molecule and will all work differently in terms of effectiveness and other effects.

    Creatine Monohydrate

    Creatine monohydrate was the first, the original creatine and one of the building blocks of the supplement industry. Likewise, it is the one form that was thoroughly researched and has the scientific research backing it up. Numerous studies have proven the ability of creatine monohydrate supplementation to improve strength and energy capacity, thus improving performance in a workout or athletic event, as well as its safety to be taken. Anecdotal feedback has also reported increased stamina, resistance to fatigue, and recovery ability. What makes it so great is that all this can be bought for an extremely affordable price. Though the micronized form is likely the best choice, the preferred form of the standard would be Scivation Creaform, which can give you 5 grams a day for almost 7 months for only $20.

    Though the oldest and most researched form, creatine monohydrate is also known to cause bloating in many users. Though not harmful in any way, I found the bloating to be very severe for myself, making it even more difficult to take my post-workout protein shake. Also, this form is not very water soluble and difficult to mix. Although it is worth it for its benefits, the forms which decrease or eliminate bloating are worth it. Also a problem with creatine monohydrate is the question of loading and absorption. Though many believe it to be unnecessary, others are unsure how well creatine will be taken in by the muscle without the loading. It seems whatever is done, there is always a problem with a low percentage of absorption. There is also the question of a delivery system, the most common being a sugar-induced insulin spike, and how important it is. The reality is that though it isnít at all necessary, a certain amount of sugar (large doses over 15 grams are excessive) and some healthier carbohydrates (itís never a bad time for oats) used to spike insulin dose help, though how much is debatable. However, this should only be done post-workout when carbohydrates are used well anyway. Whatís been shown to be more effective is sodium ingestion (salt or vinegar are good forms) since creatine uses the sodium transport mechanism to enter muscle cells. Either way, creatine monohydrate would definitely be a solid choice. Below the other forms of creatine monohydrate are discussed.

    Micronized Creatine

    Micronized creatine is creatine monohydrate that has gone through the micronization process, meaning its particles are broken down to a much smaller size and finer form. What this serves to do is allow the creatine to dissolve more easily and be absorbed quicker, which could reduce the bloating problems too. Going through the processing makes it both better made use of and purer. This should definitely be your choice if you choose to use creatine monohydrate. Even better is that you can get Higher Power Micronized Creatine for the same price as plain creatine monohydrate.

    Effervescent Creatine

    Effervescent creatine is creatine (usually monohydrate) mixed with sugar, and possibly sodium, to improve absorption. Some effervescent creatine use creatine citrate, which is creatine attached to citric acid. Though it would improve water solubility, how much isnít known and one would be hard-pressed to find and information of feedback on it. Generally, effervescent creatine would taste better and be absorbed somewhat easier. However, the other ingredients are not in an impressive amount, and it costs far too much to be worth the little bit of sugar, sodium and potassium you could get just as easily from Gatorade powder. I wouldnít recommend this, but Dymatize Crea-Fizz is the cheapest one.

    Liquid Creatine

    The idea behind liquid creatine is that in its liquid form it would be absorbed extremely quickly, cause no bloating, and have a high percentage of absorption. Unfortunately, creatine is known to be unstable in its liquid form and degrade to creatinine more easily. Whether or not degradation is the reason, I havenít heard any good reports with creatine serum and it is widely referred to as useless. For its life on the market, it is generally considered ineffective. If you, for some reason, decide you want to try it anyway, SciFit Creatine Infusion is the best priced (and also uses Kre-alkalyn, which will be discussed next).

    Kre-Alkalyn

    Kre-Alkalyn is creatine bonded to soda ash. This makes it a salt that is more water soluble. The main effect, though, is to make the creatine pH-buffered. This means that the creatine wonít be degraded by the stomachís acid. By doing this, the percentage of creatine utilized is improved greatly. Though there are no scientific studies on it, like essentially every creatine that isnít monohydrate, anecdotal evidence claims it as effective for most people in being absorbed better and reducing bloat, but others didnít respond as well to it. The major drawback is its high price, about 3 and a half times what plain creatine monohydrate costs, the cheapest being SciFitís Kre-Alkalyn Powder, making the cost to benefit ratio much poorer than what one should want from creatine.

    Di/Tri-Creatine Malate

    Tri-creatine malate and di-creatine malate are both similar forms of multiple creatine molecules (two for di, three for tri) attached to a malic acid molecule. This creatine molecule is far more water soluble and causes little to no bloating or gastric upset. Tri-creatine malate is considered the more soluble of the two, and also provides slightly more creatine. Since it is used in products that blend creatine with nitric oxide, it is believed to aide in creating pumps as well. Many people have used these products containing tri-creatine malate, and itís reported to be very effective. Tri-creatine malate can be bought in an inexpensive bulk form as SAN Cubed, and is also used in the highly reputed San V12 Turbo.

    (continued...)
    Fake "the move" and do "the dominator" - I'll miss HS wrestling... looking forward to Gator club wrestling though

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  18. #18
    The Arbitrator Tarkana's Avatar
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    (continued)

    Creatine Ethyl Ester

    What has quickly become one of the best selling supplements around, creatine ethyl ester in a new form of creatine that has been esterified. Esterification means that the molecule is bonded to an alcohol (referred to as the alkyl group) and a carboxylic (read: organic) acid (the alkanoate group). In this case, the alkyl group is an ethyl group (C2H5). An ester can only receive a hydrogen bond, not give, which makes is very water soluble while at the same time hydrophobic. This allows the creatine to be absorbed through the digestive system quite easily. Esters then tend to undergo hydrolysis, releasing the creatine and yielding an organic salt. Over the time itís been available, creatine ethyl ester has been widely used and touted as very effective. It dissolves almost instantly in water. Itís only drawback are that it tends to crystallize, which is easily broken up with a knife or spoon, and it taste bad pure, which I and many other cover with drink flavoring or juice. I use this form of creatine and, along with creatineís increases in strength and energy, I felt some cell volumization from it. Though not like what NO users report, it was still noticeable. I use and recommend Higher Power Creatine Ethyl Ester, which is very inexpensive.

    Magnesium Creatine Chelate

    Possibly the newest from of creatine released, this is creatine attached to magnesium by a metallic ion. This bond to magnesium is said to protect the creatine from being degraded and makes it better absorbed. It is also said to draw in more water, thus improving cell volumization. It is also said to allow the magnesium to be absorbed my the muscles better, which is supposed to have a positive effect. It canít currently be bought in bulk, and is only available through Controlled Labsí Green Bulge, which is expensive when compared to bulk creatine, but still widely used. Reviews of this product have been very good, and the improved volumization has been reported along with increases in strength and energy. Though there hasnít been feedback of it taken alone, it is Green Bulgeís main ingredient, so it seems to be very effective.

    (Tri-)Creatine Orotate

    Creatine orotate is exclusively found in MANís Orotine. This is simply creatine bonded to orotic acid. Orotic acid is supposed to produce ATP and increase energy levels significantly. It also possibly implies improved absorption. It would be considered a decent product by many as it is part of MANís line, but few use it and feedback is difficult to find on it. This is likely because it is far more expensive than most bulk creatine powders.

    Creatine Alpha-Ketoglutarate

    Though not very new, many have only recently become aware of the existence and creatine alpha-ketoglutarate. Like so many other things available, creatine, too, is attached to AKG. This functions to, as with all other AKG products, improve the absorption a great deal. Since supplements like arginine and ornithine have ben so successful when attached to AKG, this form of creatine is considered to be effective too. However, most believe esterification to be as good as, if not better than, attaching to AKG, and since it is only found in a few products like Anavol, NOX-CG3 and certain forms of (dat der) Cell Tech, which are all considered to be very overpriced, not many have tried it. Cell-Tech would probably be the products most used of the 3, and creatine alpha-ketoglutarate is used in much less amounts than monohydrate, so little feedback is available.

    Using and Mixing Creatine

    When using creatine, it is advised to take it both before and after a workout, usually in doses recommended around 2.5 grams. Some people believe creatine should be taken on off days, while others, such as myself, donít believe it is necessary. When taking creatine, it is important to drink a lot of water. One should drink at least a gallon of water a day, about a liter of this drank around the same time the creatine is taken. Creatine is also often used in conjunction with other supplements. Recently, the most common is now nitric oxide, as it is believe the two will together improve vasodilatation, cell volumization and further improve creatineís absorption. Creatine is also often mixed with sugar (think Cell-Tech has enough sugar?), ribose, glutamine, taurine, or pretty much any other powdered supplement. Any of these are based on personal preference.

    The Best Form of Creatine

    Since it has come out, creatine ethyl ester has proven to be an extremely effective form of creatine with far improved absorption and greatly reduced side effects, including the elimination of bloating, and everyone seems to respond to it. Because it has all the benefits of creatine monohydrate with far greater utilization and without the side effects, and still being very affordable, creatine ethyl ester is an easy pick, and is what I use.

    Magnesium creatine chelate could also be a contender for the top creatine, but it is not currently available in bulk powder form, so neither the price nor the effectiveness by itself could be compared.

    The Worst Form of Creatine

    As said above, creatine monohydrate is known to be unstable and degrade in liquid. So then why would someone make it in liquid form? Even if it worked, it would not last very long and many would be left with expired creatine. However, most people reported that there was no effect from it anyway. So creatine serums are both ineffective and extremely expensive, thus making them the worst type of creatine.

    Changing Creatine with Your Goals

    Normally it would not be necessary to change the type of creatine you are using when you switch between bulking and cutting. However, if you are using a creatine that causes bloating and water retention outside of muscles, like creatine monohydrate, or contains carbohydrates (mostly sugar) and/or sodium, it would be wise to change to a different creatine when you are cutting or just trying to appear more lean. It should also be noted that creatineís muscle-building effects are far less during cutting, and itís primary purpose is to provide energy by being taken pre-workout.

    Is Creatine Improving with Technology?

    As technology progresses, supplement companies will come out with new forms of creatine one would have never thought of before. Creatine ethyl ester is the best example of how new technology generates a much improved form of creatine. The only problem is that not all of the new creatines to come will be as great as theyíre claimed to be. Consumers simply need to be cautious when a new product arrives and not get sucked into a hype. But when a new product is taken by many people and reported by so many to be very effective, and has retained this status for an extended period of time, a great new supplement has been created.

    The Future of Creatine

    I think the future of creatine is quite obvious Ė Magnesium Tri-Kre-Alkalyn Ethly Ester Di-Malate Citrate Alpha-Ketoglutarate Orotate Chelate. Itís something Iíve concocted myself and will soon be releasing it as ďCreUltimateĒ, the new form of creatine with 300% absorption. It is absorbed perfectly and once it is used, it gets reabsorbed twice over, and stays in your muscle 3 times as long and increases muscle size 3 times as much as any other creatine. Okay, not really, but Iím sure someway, somehow, someone will come up with another form of creatine that is just a little better than what we have now, and it will all move from there just like it has been.
    Fake "the move" and do "the dominator" - I'll miss HS wrestling... looking forward to Gator club wrestling though

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  19. #19
    The Arbitrator Tarkana's Avatar
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    well, i guess thats it for this week. best of luck to u guys, but i relly hope i win cause i ithink i spent like 3 1/2 hours on that.
    Fake "the move" and do "the dominator" - I'll miss HS wrestling... looking forward to Gator club wrestling though

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  20. #20
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    u guys are too late it was due wednesday at midnight. u posted after that.
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    Originally Posted by RippedJordanian
    u guys are too late it was due wednesday at midnight. u posted after that.
    how am i too late? i posted at 12:42 central time, which is 11:42 Mountain time. the cutoff is 12:00 mountain time. maybe it's just past mignight in your timezone, but in mountain time (which it specifies in the rules) it was before midnight
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    Proud Arab! RippedJordanian's Avatar
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    sry man i ddint know. it still says u posted it 12:42 mountain time though i dunno im just saying
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    The Arbitrator Tarkana's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by RippedJordanian
    sry man i ddint know. it still says u posted it 12:42 mountain time though i dunno im just saying
    it's alright, im pretty sure i was on time. audioslave, on the other hand, u were too late. sry bud.
    is it just me, or does audislave's look exactly like RJ's?

    ok, yeah, its the exact same thing. i hope he was just posting that for our convinience and not trying to enter that...
    Last edited by Tarkana; 03-16-2006 at 06:35 AM.
    Fake "the move" and do "the dominator" - I'll miss HS wrestling... looking forward to Gator club wrestling though

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    Proud Arab! RippedJordanian's Avatar
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    lol are u sure were even on the same page? theres no audioslave in this competition? dude i must be on pot or something, that or my browser is messed up.
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    The Arbitrator Tarkana's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by RippedJordanian
    lol are u sure were even on the same page? theres no audioslave in this competition? dude i must be on pot or something, that or my browser is messed up.
    yeah, it was there, he posted it at like 20 minuttes after u left, the ndeleted it half an hour after i said that
    Fake "the move" and do "the dominator" - I'll miss HS wrestling... looking forward to Gator club wrestling though

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    The many forms of creatine:
    The different forms of Creatine today


    1.Creatine monohydrate: Creatine monohydrate is the king of the creatine supplement world. It is the most inexpensive form of creatine, and has been studied exhaustively. It is popular because it works. No other legal non-hormonal bodybuilding or sports supplement can come close to the potency of creatine monohydrate. Creatine monohydrate is 88% pure creatine bound with 12% water. Early creatine products were filled with large, hard to digest particles. These earlier supplements often caused intestinal issues. Most modern creatines are micronized, and are 20 times smaller. Modern creatines generally do not have the intestinal side effects that older creatines had.

    2. Creatine Hydrochloride: is the newest form of creatine to hit the market. Not to be confused with Creatine Ethyl Ester. Creatine hydrochloride (also known as creatine hcl) is a totally different form of creatine. In fact, Creatine Hcl was discovered quite by accident during the synthesizing of the ingredients needed to make creatine ethyl ester back in 2003. Once discovered the manufacturers began studying this new form of creatine and its effectiveness. They soon found out that compared to creatine monohydrate, creatine hydrochloride was far superior in every way.

    3. Creatine Alpha-Ketoglutarate: One of the newest forms of creatine is creatine alpha-ketoglutarate, also known as creatine AKG. This form is creatine bound to a molecule of AKG. This is the same AKG that is used in the nitric oxide formulas (arginine AKG). Alpha-Ketoglutarate is a precursor of glutamine, which means that with this supplement you are getting both glutamine and creatine. The key benefit, however, is that the intestines more easily absorb AKG, which will prevent the diarrhea that most bodybuilders experience when they take creatine monohydrate. Alpha-ketoglutarate is used for kidney disease; intestinal and stomach disorders, including bacterial infections; liver problems; cataracts; and recurring yeast infections. It is also used for improving the way kidney patients receiving hemodialysis treatments process protein.

    4. Creatine Gluconate: This unique delivery system, quickly and continuously, delivers the supplement to your muscles – so quickly that in 24 to 36 hours you can see and feel your muscles getting bulkier after the very first serving. You will be able to pump much more, your belly muscles will increase and you will be far more energetic than before. Creatine gluconate is an ionic salt made by bonding a creatine ion to a glucose ion. What you get as a result is a product that is absorbed easily and almost completely as glucose. Plus, it mixes very well with water and tastes very good.

    5. Magnesium Creatine Chelate: Magnesium creatine chelate, often abbreviated MCC, is a newer form of creatine that is chemically bonded to magnesium rather than a water molecule as in creatine monohydrate. This special form of creatine is absorbed through a different pathway than creatine monohydrate. Creatine monohydrate is absorbed through a sodium-dependent transporter, while magnesium creatine chelate is absorbed through a lignand-gated cation channel. Because the magnesium that is bound to the creatine is a cation, the entire molecule now becomes a cation, making it absorbable through this pathway while creatine monohydrate is not. Creatine Magnesium Chelate (pronounced key-late) is different from other forms of Creatine because it's chemically attached to the mineral magnesium for optimal absorption.* This means more creatine for your muscles and possibly less bloating or stomach discomfort!*

    6. Creatine Pyruvate : Creatine Pyruvate is a combination of Creatine and Pyruvate, both of which are impressive ergogenic (energy) producers and have been highly touted for building muscle and reducing body fat. The performance-enhancing effects of creatine monohydrate and pyruvate are combined for the first time in this unique nutritional formula designed to boost energy and endurance.Creatine regenerates the primary energy immediately available to muscles involved in short, intense contractions.Creatine also serves as a buffer, delaying the point at which lactic acid causes muscle fatigue and discomfort. Increasing creatine energizes muscle for prolonged endurance and optimal work output in activities such as weight lifting and sprinting.Pyruvate stimulates glucose extraction from blood into muscle during exercise and at rest, priming muscle with a carbohydrate content essential for greater endurance.In clinical studies, pyruvate reduced gain in body fat without reducing muscle protein, an important factor in increasing lean muscle mass.

    7. Kre-Alkalyn: Kre-Alkalyn is a pH buffered creatine that has a pH of more than 12. Manufacturers of Kre-Alkalyn claim that your body can not naturally buffer regular creatine supplements. Instead, your body breaks down regular creatine into creatinine, a useless substance excreted from your body through wastes. Further, because your body does not breakdown Kre-Alkalyn into creatinine, your body can fully absorb the creatine in Kre-Alkalyn supplements


    8. Creatine Citrate: A worthy predecessor of creatine monohydrate, this compound was amongst the first to go against its much popular counterpart, the monohydrate version. It has creatine molecule attached to citric acid. Since citric acid has a crucial role to play in the synthesis of aerobic energy this supplement is known to offer much more energy as a compound.

    9. Creatine Phosphate: Creatine phosphate created a lot of buzz initially given the fact that in the muscle creatine essentially bonds with the phosphate and having the compound directly available as a supplement might make it a direct source of instant energy. Though research proved this wrong since phosphate and creatine in the bound form are not permeable through cell membranes. Creatine phosphate is another early form of creatine. Creatine phosphate is a creatine molecule bonded to a phosphate molecule. This bonding is a process that naturally occurs within muscle cells. It was thought that by pre-bonding creatine with phosphate, that it would amplify results. Ultimately, creatine phosphate was found to be less effective then creatine monohydrate.

    10. Creatine Malate: Malic acid is known to partake in the energy producing Krebs cycle thus as a compound with creatine it is known to offer greater ATP production. Another merit of this compound is that just like creatine citrate it gets easily dissolved in water causing nil stomach discomfort. Creatine malate is a relatively new version of creatine. It is creatine chemically bonded to malic acid. Malic acid works in much the same way that citric acid does, and assists muscles with aerobic energy production. There is little current research for or against creatine malate’s effectiveness.

    11. Creatine Tartrate: It is the compound containing approximately 70% creatine with 30% tartaric acid. They are present in the solid form as tablets, bars and chewable tablets. Creatine tartrate is creatine bonded to tartaric acid. This form of creatine is often used in pills, capsules, bars and chewables. It offers no benefits over creatine monohydrate.

    12. Creatine titrate. Creatine titrate (different from creatine tartrate) works in a similar manner to effervescent creatine. Creatine titrate changes the PH of the water solution when it is mixed, allowing for a more stable solution that is easier to digest.

    13. Creatine Anhydrous: An anhydrate is a compound that is form with the removal of the water molecules in the compound and that is exactly what this supplement is made up of. It is known to provide more creatine than in its monohydrate form. Creatine anhydrous is creatine monohydrate without the water molecule. Creatine anhydrous provides approximately 6% more pure creatine per serving compared to creation monohydrate.

    14. Creatine HMB: This compound is composed of creatine molecule bound to betahydroxy-beta-methylbutyrate (HMB) which is composed of amino acid leucine that helps in muscle growth and recovery. It is easily soluble and absorbed in the body. Creatine HMB is creatine chemically attached to HMB (beta-hydroxy beta-methylbutyrate). HMB, by itself, assists muscle recovery and growth. This form of creatine is generally easier for the body to digest. Once in the bloodstream, the creatine and HMB are separated. Creatine HMB is a relatively new form of creatine, and there is very little research to back its effectiveness.

    15. Creatine Ethyl Ester: A compound formed of the bond between ester ethyl hydrochloride and creatine is known to enhance the muscular mass much higher than other compounds since the molecule easily passes through the membranes of cells like those of the intestines or muscles and is absorbed rapidly at a higher rate. Creatine ethyl ester is a form of creatine monohydrate, but it has an ester attached. The process, called esterification, is the result of the reaction of carboxylic acid and alcohol. The way CEE is made means that it is more bioavailable to the body and so you actually need to take less of it.

    16. Magnesium creatine. Magnesium creatine is creatine chemically bonded to magnesium. Magnesium assists in the digestion of creatine, primarily helping it pass through the stomach. Magnesium is also involved in the process of turning creatine phosphate into ATP. Magnesium creatine has been shown to be an effective form of creatine, but only in the bonded state. Taking creatine together with magnesium, but as separate supplements, is not as effective.

    17. Creatine glutamine taurine. This form of creatine has creatine bonded with glutamine and taurine. Because both glutamine and taurine act to volumize cells, it is hoped that – in conjunction with creatine – their benefits will be heightened. One side benefit to taurine use is that it has been shown to improve strength.

    18. Effervescent creatine. Effervescent creatine has been available for a number of years. Effervescent creatines usually contains creatine monohydrate or creatine citrate, along with citric acid and bicarbonate. When effervescent creatine is placed in water, a chemical reaction takes place, resulting in the formation of creatine carrying a neutral charge. This form of creatine passes through the stomach better then creatine monohydrate. It also retains its stability longer in solution then creatine monohydrate, making it a solid option for those that mix and take their creatine solution with them.


    19. Liquid creatine. Liquid creatine is a form of creatine that is completely dissolved, and supposedly, easier to digest. Unfortunately, creatine is very unstable when dissolved, so many early liquid creatine products were failures. Modern liquid creatine products are improved, and can remain solvent for up to a year.

    20. Creatine gum. Creatine gum allows for a slow, steady creatine release as you chew.

    21. Time released creatine. Time released creatine is a new creatine product. It provides a slow, steady release of creatine. The debate over the effectiveness of time-released creatine is very heated. Because of its very nature, time-released creatine does not provide a high concentration of creatine in the blood. Many believe that a certain “concentration threshold” is required for creatine to be effective.
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  27. #27
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    creatine ethyl ester was proven to suck @ss by layne norton

    go creatine monohydrate or concret (creatine hydrochloride ?) or none
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    Registered User youngbison's Avatar
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    Question: Are all the creatines talked about bad for the kidneys? I just started taking Optimum Nutrition Creatine Monohydrate, at low doses (5mg) a day for about 3 days now and was wondering if it was safe to stay on it without having to cycle off.
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    Registered User 2write's Avatar
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    I hope this is a good place to ask this simple question.

    What is the best way to ingest Creatine Monohydrate? Is it recommended to mix it with plain water and drink it? Or is there better more suitable ways to ingest it.

    Also is taking it on empty stomach more effective?

    Any help or link to basics articles would be useful.
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    yea this is great
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