Are liquid calories actually beneficial for a hard gainer?

[JCAZ2010]

So my friend is an ecto and has a high metabolism. He's 150 lbs and trying to get 3000 calories a day. Previously he had only been eating 2 meals a day and getting 1500-1600 calories. So now he's drinking 2 weight gainer shakes a day each with about 600 calories. I told him he needs to get more calories from whole foods, but when I actually searched about liquid calories, people said that whole foods actually boost your metabolism and make you burn more calories. So I guess my question is, is he better off getting 1200 of his 3000 calories from liquid or jus having maybe 1 weight gainer shake and getting only 600 of his 3000 calories from liquid?

[Sibrek]

He's better off eating whichever he'll actually stick to. If you force him to eat 1200 calories of whole foods but he skips it every few days, it becomes pointless, and the same with liquids.

They both have an equal effect.

[WannaBbig!]

Try getting him to eat smaller, more frequent meals (every 1.5-2hours) that are calorie-dense such as nuts, dried fruit, whole milk, hard boiled eggs etc. between his main meals.

If he persists with this frequent eating his appetite should improve.

[Blashy]

There is no easy way around it, eating enough to gain as an ecto IS difficult.

It just depends how much you want the extra weight.

And if he is an ecto 3000 calories will not be enough. At MINIMUM he should be no less than 4000.

I did a bulk on 3500 when I weighed 148 and gained ZERO after 4 weeks.

So I dedicated myself to WANT to get big and now I eat 4200+ calories a day, I went from 148 to 160 in 14 days and counting.

It took me a good 8 days for my body to get used to all the extra food and those 8 days were quite difficult, but once my body adapted now I can eat virtually non stop.

As for the source of the food, if he can do fine on liquid let him, but make those shakes more calorie dense, add some 10% cream (half and half) in there, some WHOLE eggs and split it 3-4 ways throughout the day.

[JCAZ2010]

He's better off eating whichever he'll actually stick to. If you force him to eat 1200 calories of whole foods but he skips it every few days, it becomes pointless, and the same with liquids.

They both have an equal effect.

I'm still surprised that they have an equal effect.

Try getting him to eat smaller, more frequent meals (every 1.5-2hours) that are calorie-dense such as nuts, dried fruit, whole milk, hard boiled eggs etc. between his main meals.

If he persists with this frequent eating his appetite should improve.

Won't that make him thinner though? He's naturally very cut and is trying to gain weight...

[JCAZ2010]

There is no easy way around it, eating enough to gain as an ecto IS difficult.

It just depends how much you want the extra weight.

And if he is an ecto 3000 calories will not be enough. At MINIMUM he should be no less than 4000.

I did a bulk on 3500 when I weighed 148 and gained ZERO after 4 weeks.

So I dedicated myself to WANT to get big and now I eat 4200+ calories a day, I went from 148 to 160 in 14 days and counting.

It took me a good 8 days for my body to get used to all the extra food and those 8 days were quite difficult, but once my body adapted now I can eat virtually non stop.

As for the source of the food, if he can do fine on liquid let him, but make those shakes more calorie dense, add some 10% cream (half and half) in there, some WHOLE eggs and split it 3-4 ways throughout the day.

wow, I'll try convincing him to eat 4000 cals lol

[ben3133]

I'm still surprised that they have an equal effect.

Calories are calories, in the same way the Vit C you get from a multivitamin is the same as the Vit C you get from a banana - just a different medium.

Won't that make him thinner though? He's naturally very cut and is trying to gain weight...

Once his appetite has increased he will be able to, and have a desire to eat more.

[Johnny2k7]

I guess if these liquid calories are easier to digest, less energy would be expended digesting them and hence he would have a greater net energy gain...if thats the way it goes then I guess liquid calories would mean he doesnt have to eat as much.

Thats all jsut a guess though, most people around here will tell you whole food is generally better than supplements.

[Sim882]

Even an endomorph could look like a hard gainer consuming "2 meals a day and getting 1500-1600 calories"

Some small eaters assume they are hard gainers, double their calories, and get fat.

Don't be too eager for ur friend to do the same - maybe go up to 2200, then gradually increase, as his metabolism likely adjusted to the low eating.

And yes, as above poster said, if anything liquid meals would require less cals as easier to digest.

[JCAZ2010]

Calories are calories, in the same way the Vit C you get from a multivitamin is the same as the Vit C you get from a banana - just a different medium.




Once his appetite has increased he will be able to, and have a desire to eat more.

I don't think that can be true...other wise people would just drink protein shakes and eat vitamins all the time.

Even an endomorph could look like a hard gainer consuming "2 meals a day and getting 1500-1600 calories"

Some small eaters assume they are hard gainers, double their calories, and get fat.

Don't be too eager for ur friend to do the same - maybe go up to 2200, then gradually increase, as his metabolism likely adjusted to the low eating.

And yes, as above poster said, if anything liquid meals would require less cals as easier to digest.

He's definitely a hard gainer. I know this because he eats crappy food, he eats pizza, chipotle, mexican food....for his 2 meals. It's not like he's getting 1500 cals of chicken and oats. I guess we'll see though, I mean that other guy in this thread who was about 150 said he needed 4000 cals to put on weight...

[Aindreas]

Why is he so sure he has a high metabolism when he's been maintaining on 1500-1600 cals? That doesn't make a whole lot of sense...

[tinyman5000]

Why is he so sure he has a high metabolism when he's been maintaining on 1500-1600 cals? That doesn't make a whole lot of sense...

he sounds like half the undedicated ****s on this forum

[ilurk]

So I dedicated myself to WANT to get big and now I eat 4200+ calories a day, I went from 148 to 160 in 14 days and counting.
.

and how much of that do you really think is muscle? 2 lbs?

[JCAZ2010]

Why is he so sure he has a high metabolism when he's been maintaining on 1500-1600 cals? That doesn't make a whole lot of sense...

he sounds like half the undedicated ****s on this forum

Because I see him eat the worst food known to mankind and he is still around 6% BF.

He's not a scrawny guy, he's just lighter. He has a bigger upper frame and small legs.

And you've gotten completely off topic, this thread is supposed to be about liquid calories vs food calories.

[Aindreas]

Because I see him eat the worst food known to mankind and he is still around 6% BF.

I don't give a **** what he's eating, if he's only eating 1600 cals a day he's not going to defy the laws of thermodynamics and gain weight just b/c it happens to come from less than optimal sources. You do know how calories work right?

[rgraves]

I don't give a **** what he's eating, if he's only eating 1600 cals a day he's not going to defy the laws of thermodynamics and gain weight just b/c it happens to come from less than optimal sources. You do know how calories work right?

The original poster said 3000 calories in two meals of 1500 calories...

[Rodzilla]

quit
hating
on
thugman
mahfuggas

[Aindreas]

The original poster said 3000 calories in two meals of 1500 calories...

That's what he's eating now with the addition of the weight gainer shakes. Unless I misinterpreted, OP correct me if I read this wrong.

He's 150 lbs and trying to get 3000 calories a day. Previously he had only been eating 2 meals a day and getting [/b]1500-1600 calories[/b].

I don't know why he would bother saying previously if it was adding up to the same or a larger amount of calories.

quit
hating
on
thugman
mahfuggas

I'm not hating, I'm just saying if you don't eat you can't call yourself an ecto, that's not why you're light.

[rgraves]

I don't know why he would bother saying previously if it was adding up to the same or a larger amount of calories.

Well, you could be right...in which case this whole thread is kind of funny. I mean, 1500 isn't even maintenance calories for someone even at 150 pounds.

Hopefully the OP will clarify?

Anyhow, I would definitely recommend having your friend up his calories to at least 3500. He could get half his calories from liquid if he wants, it REALLY doesn't matter that much. The difference between whole foods and liquid calories in the bigger scheme is next to nothing. He is gonna want to keep his metabolism high anyways, so that when he wants to cut after bulking, he will burn fat quicker.

[ben3133]

I don't think that can be true...other wise people would just drink protein shakes and eat vitamins all the time.

They don't do it because it's much more satisfying to eat a proper meal than drink a protein shake. It's also cheaper.

[Emmortal]

Calories are calories, in the same way the Vit C you get from a multivitamin is the same as the Vit C you get from a banana - just a different medium.
Once his appetite has increased he will be able to, and have a desire to eat more.

Completely false. Go to pubmed and read some of the articles doing a search on multivitamins. The bioavailibity is not the same from liquid or pill forms of nutrients and often cases, especially with multis, people get too much of certain vitamins rendering them counterproductive.

I guarantee you that if you are taking in 3k of liquid calories and switch to 3k of calories from whole foods you'll see a massive improvement in weight gain.

You should only be using supplements as that, supplements to your whole food diet.

[JCAZ2010]

quit
hating
on
thugman
mahfuggas

For real

That's what he's eating now with the addition of the weight gainer shakes. Unless I misinterpreted, OP correct me if I read this wrong.



I don't know why he would bother saying previously if it was adding up to the same or a larger amount of calories.



I'm not hating, I'm just saying if you don't eat you can't call yourself an ecto, that's not why you're light.

Ok I don't really know how to explain it. 1600 may be a bit of an underestimate, He only eats 2 meals a day though each at around 800-1000 cals. I don't know how to explain that he's an ecto. There's plenty of fat people who don't eat very many calories and are still fat. My dad is overweight and eats 1/2 as much as me. He's not an endo, maybe an ecto/meso who cares, all I know is that he has tried boosting cals in the past by getting about 600 more cals a day and saw little improvement to his weight...

Well, you could be right...in which case this whole thread is kind of funny. I mean, 1500 isn't even maintenance calories for someone even at 150 pounds.

Hopefully the OP will clarify?

Anyhow, I would definitely recommend having your friend up his calories to at least 3500. He could get half his calories from liquid if he wants, it REALLY doesn't matter that much. The difference between whole foods and liquid calories in the bigger scheme is next to nothing. He is gonna want to keep his metabolism high anyways, so that when he wants to cut after bulking, he will burn fat quicker.

Yah I should have been a little more precise with my estimates, like I said before he's probably closer to 2000 cals in a day. I guess We'll see how 3000 calories work for the next couple weeks and if he still doesn't gain weigh I'll tell him to bump it up to 3500.

Completely false. Go to pubmed and read some of the articles doing a search on multivitamins. The bioavailibity is not the same from liquid or pill forms of nutrients and often cases, especially with multis, people get too much of certain vitamins rendering them counterproductive.

I guarantee you that if you are taking in 3k of liquid calories and switch to 3k of calories from whole foods you'll see a massive improvement in weight gain.

You should only be using supplements as that, supplements to your whole food diet.

It always made common sense to me that liquid couldn't be as good as real food, thanks for the comment.

[Who?]

If he has trouble eating enough now, tell him to wake up earlier than he does now and still eat every two hours. I used to wake up around 11am-12pm(lol) and go to bed around 1am. Now I wake up a 6 or 8pm and go to bed around 12pm. just eat a sandwhich, bowl of oatmeal, chicken breast, or whatever ever two hours and it will add up. Waking up earlier has increased my appitite later in the day by a lot.

[JCAZ2010]

If he has trouble eating enough now, tell him to wake up earlier than he does now and still eat every two hours. I used to wake up around 11am-12pm(lol) and go to bed around 1am. Now I wake up a 6 or 8pm and go to bed around 12pm. just eat a sandwhich, bowl of oatmeal, chicken breast, or whatever ever two hours and it will add up. Waking up earlier has increased my appitite later in the day by a lot.

That's his main problem. He wakes up late and then he'll have a small weight gainer for class. Then a couple hours later he'll have one of his actual meals then a couple hours later another meal then before bed a weight gainer.

[terracotta]

It doesn't matter how crappy the food is, if it is less than 2000 calories a day, of course he wouldn't gain.

I used to be very thin myself, but I was also eating around 1600 calories a day, mostly because of low appetite. I increased my activity level, increased my food, and suddenly I can gain weight easily.

Oh, and he should not be trying to gain more than 2 lbs a month, or he's going to gain a lot of fat with the muscle.

[Sibrek]

Completely false. Go to pubmed and read some of the articles doing a search on multivitamins. The bioavailibity is not the same from liquid or pill forms of nutrients and often cases, especially with multis, people get too much of certain vitamins rendering them counterproductive.

I guarantee you that if you are taking in 3k of liquid calories and switch to 3k of calories from whole foods you'll see a massive improvement in weight gain.

You should only be using supplements as that, supplements to your whole food diet.

Sorry, you're wrong. True, about the multivitamins, though.

It always made common sense to me that liquid couldn't be as good as real food, thanks for the comment.

Common sense isn't always correct.