Cardio on an empty stomach(what it really means)

[W8isGR8]

A lot of people are confused about this topic, and rightly so. While the idea behind fasted cardio is quite reasonable, like everything in bodybuilding it's been bastardized and taken to extremes.

What cardio on an empty stomach really means is "Cardio done while insulin and blood-suger levels are low". The science behind this is spot on, as insulin blunts fat burning, and the body will burn glucose in the bloodstream if it's present.

Somehow, this got turned into "Don't eat anything 38 hours prior to cardio". All you really need to do is not eat anything(especially with carbs) an hour or two before cardio. That gives time for insulin levels to return to normal, and blood glucose levels return to normal.

As for cardio first thing in the morning on an empty stomach.....well, lets do a little math. Most bodybuilders take some form of casein protein before bed(if you don't, I suggest you start) Whether it's in the form of powder, milk, of cottage cheese doesn't really matter, as long as you get a decent amount.

"In contrast the casein condition displayed a slow increase in aa concentrations which remained elevated above baseline after 300 minutes."

For those of you that still count on your fingers, 300 minutes is 5 hours. That means that your body is still in an anabolic state 5 hours after you go to sleep. Now, if you're like the average person who gets 8 hours of sleep a night, that means by the time you wake up to do cardio, you've been without food for, at the most, 3 hours Dear god, your muscles must be wasting away to nothing. Lets look at a best case scenario. We've all heard that casein can take up to 7 hours to digest, so what if you only get 6 hours of sleep? That would mean you'd wake up with food still in your stomach........read that last part again......I'll wait..........

If that isn't enough for you to sleep at night, then do yourself a favor and buy some BCAA's, or take half a scoop of protein with water 1/2 an hour before cardio in the morning. If you do your cardio in the afternoon, don't eat anything with carbs 2 hours before hand.

[SpecTheIntro]

W8 is right, as usual. I also want to relay some great advice I got from DD and Defiant1 that continues to bring me to my senses whenever I start overanalyzing things:

"The perfect workout that you're not doing is always worse than the less-than-perfect regiment you're willing and ready to do."

That's why I started running after I got home from work, as opposed to trying to find the "ideal" time for fat burning, etc. Better to run five times a week when I may/may not be in a fasted state, than once/never a week during that peak time.

[MiketheSwede]

A lot of people are confused about this topic, and rightly so. While the idea behind fasted cardio is quite reasonable, like everything in bodybuilding it's been bastardized and taken to extremes.

What cardio on an empty stomach really means is "Cardio done while insulin and blood-suger levels are low". The science behind this is spot on, as insulin blunts fat burning, and the body will burn glucose in the bloodstream if it's present.

Somehow, this got turned into "Don't eat anything 38 hours prior to cardio". All you really need to do is not eat anything(especially with carbs) an hour or two before cardio. That gives time for insulin levels to return to normal, and blood glucose levels return to normal.

As for cardio first thing in the morning on an empty stomach.....well, lets do a little math. Most bodybuilders take some form of casein protein before bed(if you don't, I suggest you start) Whether it's in the form of powder, milk, of cottage cheese doesn't really matter, as long as you get a decent amount.

"In contrast the casein condition displayed a slow increase in aa concentrations which remained elevated above baseline after 300 minutes."

For those of you that still count on your fingers, 300 minutes is 5 hours. That means that your body is still in an anabolic state 5 hours after you go to sleep. Now, if you're like the average person who gets 8 hours of sleep a night, that means by the time you wake up to do cardio, you've been without food for, at the most, 3 hours Dear god, your muscles must be wasting away to nothing. Lets look at a best case scenario. We've all heard that casein can take up to 7 hours to digest, so what if you only get 6 hours of sleep? That would mean you'd wake up with food still in your stomach........read that last part again......I'll wait..........

If that isn't enough for you to sleep at night, then do yourself a favor and buy some BCAA's, or take half a scoop of protein with water 1/2 an hour before cardio in the morning. If you do your cardio in the afternoon, don't eat anything with carbs 2 hours before hand.

People like you, with posts like this are the straitjackets of this forum, that prevent people from really hurting themselvs sometimes!

[W8isGR8]

agreed

Unless you're competeing for a pro card, just get your damn fat-ass on the treadmill and quit worrying so much.


I swear this whole "muscle-burning" phenomenon is almost as bad as parents telling kids "kissing gets you pregnant".

I'm amazed that with all the science we have, people are still living in the f*cking Dark Ages and letting their lives be run by dogma, superstition, and old-wives tales. It's so much easier for someone to just parrot someone else, instead of taking an hour out of their lives to do a little research.

[blood vs. water]

excellent post w8

[SpecTheIntro]

agreed

Unless you're competeing for a pro card, just get your damn fat-ass on the treadmill and quit worrying so much.


I swear this whole "muscle-burning" phenomenon is almost as bad as parents telling kids "kissing gets you pregnant".

I'm amazed that with all the science we have, people are still living in the f*cking Dark Ages and letting their lives be run by dogma, superstition, and old-wives tales. It's so much easier for someone to just parrot someone else, instead of taking an hour out of their lives to do a little research.

Well with the media going overtime about how often/when/why you should exercise 24/7, it's a wonder people get anything done at all. The misinformation out there is absolutely astounding. I have to battle with my father daily about how to shrink his stomach size. He's convinced working his abs will do it, and I have to keep reiterating that the only way he'll lose fat is to do cardio, and do it for a good chunk of time. (He already lifts, but don't get me started on that... we won't even go there.) Hell, if I can't convince my own FATHER, who has seen me literally transform from an obese teenager to a healthy young man, how can we expect any different from complete strangers?

[Sir_Malak]

A lot of people are confused about this topic, and rightly so. While the idea behind fasted cardio is quite reasonable, like everything in bodybuilding it's been bastardized and taken to extremes.

What cardio on an empty stomach really means is "Cardio done while insulin and blood-suger levels are low". The science behind this is spot on, as insulin blunts fat burning, and the body will burn glucose in the bloodstream if it's present.

Somehow, this got turned into "Don't eat anything 38 hours prior to cardio". All you really need to do is not eat anything(especially with carbs) an hour or two before cardio. That gives time for insulin levels to return to normal, and blood glucose levels return to normal.

As for cardio first thing in the morning on an empty stomach.....well, lets do a little math. Most bodybuilders take some form of casein protein before bed(if you don't, I suggest you start) Whether it's in the form of powder, milk, of cottage cheese doesn't really matter, as long as you get a decent amount.

"In contrast the casein condition displayed a slow increase in aa concentrations which remained elevated above baseline after 300 minutes."

For those of you that still count on your fingers, 300 minutes is 5 hours. That means that your body is still in an anabolic state 5 hours after you go to sleep. Now, if you're like the average person who gets 8 hours of sleep a night, that means by the time you wake up to do cardio, you've been without food for, at the most, 3 hours Dear god, your muscles must be wasting away to nothing. Lets look at a best case scenario. We've all heard that casein can take up to 7 hours to digest, so what if you only get 6 hours of sleep? That would mean you'd wake up with food still in your stomach........read that last part again......I'll wait..........

If that isn't enough for you to sleep at night, then do yourself a favor and buy some BCAA's, or take half a scoop of protein with water 1/2 an hour before cardio in the morning. If you do your cardio in the afternoon, don't eat anything with carbs 2 hours before hand.

Great post, great advise. If I cardio on much I hurl anyway so those rules strongly apply to me

[W8isGR8]

Well with the media going overtime about how often/when/why you should exercise 24/7, it's a wonder people get anything done at all. The misinformation out there is absolutely astounding. I have to battle with my father <i>daily</i> about how to shrink his stomach size. He's convinced working his abs will do it, and I have to keep reiterating that the only way he'll lose fat is to do cardio, and do it for a good chunk of time. (He already lifts, but don't get me started on that... we won't even go there.) Hell, if I can't convince my own FATHER, who has seen me literally transform from an obese teenager to a healthy young man, how can we expect any different from complete strangers?

I go out to dinner with friends all the time and they're always asking eachother about getting in shape. It usually goes like this

Idiot 1- "so I heard that not eating carbs after 4 p.m is the key to fat loss"
Idiot 2- "Oh yeah, I heard that too, my friends boss's secretary did that and lost 2 lbs"
Me- "actually, it's not the time of day that matters, it's the activity levels at the time you eat, as exercise has a profound effect on nutrient partitioning. Also, the macro-nutrient profile of the meal, as well as the glycemic index of the carbohydrates is an important factor in substrate utilization"

Silence and blank stares

Idiot 1(to idiot 2)- "so you think I should stop eating carbs at 4 p.m or 3 p.m?"

[SpecTheIntro]

I go out to dinner with friends all the time and they're always asking eachother about getting in shape. It usually goes like this

Idiot 1- "so I heard that not eating carbs after 4 p.m is the key to fat loss"
Idiot 2- "Oh yeah, I heard that too, my friends boss's secretary did that and lost 2 lbs"
Me- "actually, it's not the time of day that matters, it's the activity levels at the time you eat, as exercise has a profound effect on nutrient partitioning. Also, the macro-nutrient profile of the meal, as well as the glycemic index of the carbohydrates is an important factor in substrate utilization"

Silence and blank stares

Idiot 1(to idiot 2)- "so you think I should stop eating carbs at 4 p.m or 3 p.m?"

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA It's so true. I have the same conversation with my mother. She'll sit eating Godiva chocolates and I'll say: "Mom, if you ever wonder why you're not losing weight, that's why." And her response: "No, I just eat too much carbs. I've got to eat everything in moderation."

And then she'll insist that whey protein powder is going to kill me.

[tbb]

when is the best time to do them? most of the time I do mine right after I workout.

[Ng_Tin]

All you really need to do is not eat anything(especially with carbs) an hour or two before cardio. That gives time for insulin levels to return to normal, and blood glucose levels return to normal.

W8,

In healthy individuals, there should be almost no variation of blood glucose levels immediately after a meal (as compared to baseline); insulin is also pretty much constant within 2-4 hours after a meal. The rationale of "running on a empty stomach" seems to be twofold :
A. Running while in post-absorption state (which usually requires around 16 hours of fasting and is associated with a higher rate of fat consumption -- and protein consuption as well);
B. Having the most blood flow to the muscles, while the intestines receive next to nothing (this indeed may be achieved, in part, some 2-4 hours after a meal; and, fully, some 8-10 hours after a meal).

Whatever the case may be, I do not see why a bodybuilder -- who wants not to lose weight, but lose fat only -- would applying an "empty stomach" technique to his cardio training. On the other hand, it seems self-evident that cardio is not to done within minutes after eating.


Ng Tin

[pali012]

Great post w8, you make everything so simple.

[Ng_Tin]

when is the best time to do them? most of the time I do mine right after I workout.

Indeed, this is what most people do. The important thing, of course, is you don't do cardio before your workout, since you wouldn't have any energy left.

Ng Tin

[W8isGR8]

W8,

insulin is also pretty much constant within 2-4 hours after a meal.


Ng Tin

Hence the waiting at least 2 hours after a meal

[Breakdancin11]

Good read. Im learning about everything mentioned in my nutrition class in college

-Jp

[darklight79]

Good stuff as usual W8!

[Ng_Tin]

Hence the waiting at least 2 hours after a meal

What I meant is "two hours" is no magic number, and it certainly bears no relationship to blood insulin levels.

It is true though, as common sense has always told, that one should not go running immediately after eating.


Ng Tin

[W8isGR8]

What I meant is "two hours" is no magic number, and it certainly bears no relationship to blood insulin levels.

It is true though, as common sense has always told, that one should not go running immediately after eating.


Ng Tin

Agreed, there are no magic numbers, but you gotta start somewhere

[Bird4Three]

A lot of people are confused about this topic.........All you really need to do is not eat anything(especially with carbs) an hour or two before cardio. That gives time for insulin levels to return to normal, and blood glucose levels return to normal.

Great post. Brilliant!

[bubbleboy_619]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA It's so true. I have the same conversation with my mother. She'll sit eating Godiva chocolates and I'll say: "Mom, if you ever wonder why you're not losing weight, that's why." And her response: "No, I just eat too much carbs. I've got to eat everything in moderation."

And then she'll insist that whey protein powder is going to kill me.

Yeah, that kills me the way everyone does not understand bb'ing and nutrition. One day, my sister told me, "I don't understand how peanut butter is good for ya." I turn around and she is always eating cookies and pizza.

Man, I love my dad to death, but sometimes he'll say, "What the heck, I'm not driving" and go and munch on cookies and milk and think he can burn it off by just jogging for so many minutes.

[Kerry77]

Deff. a good post W8. I've always done my cardio after my workout anyway. That way you're body is using stored fat as a fuel because you've used what you've eaten during your workout basically

[W8isGR8]

Deff. a good post W8. I've always done my cardio after my workout anyway. That way you're body is using stored fat as a fuel because you've used what you've eaten during your workout basically

That's another misconception. Substrate type for fuel is dependent on intensity level of the exercise.

[RavensFan2k3]

Great post man...I have a question about this. What about after cardio? When is it ok to eat after cardio?

[W8isGR8]

Great post man...I have a question about this. What about after cardio? When is it ok to eat after cardio?

Whenever you want, I like to wait at least half an hour.

[Rachel_n_SD]

I go out to dinner with friends all the time and they're always asking eachother about getting in shape. It usually goes like this

Idiot 1- "so I heard that not eating carbs after 4 p.m is the key to fat loss"
Idiot 2- "Oh yeah, I heard that too, my friends boss's secretary did that and lost 2 lbs"
Me- "actually, it's not the time of day that matters, it's the activity levels at the time you eat, as exercise has a profound effect on nutrient partitioning. Also, the macro-nutrient profile of the meal, as well as the glycemic index of the carbohydrates is an important factor in substrate utilization"

Silence and blank stares

Idiot 1(to idiot 2)- "so you think I should stop eating carbs at 4 p.m or 3 p.m?"

lol-u sound like me talking to the women at my work.

IMO, the best time to do cardio is when you are motivated, and it fits into your schedule. if i start stressing over peak times and ****, i end up just not doing it.

[aqua-beowulf]

I just wanted to pop in here and say it's hard for me to believe that people like W8 and Dom actually do this sh*t for free. Great advice as usual Logan

[W8isGR8]

I just wanted to pop in here and say it's hard for me to believe that people like W8 and Dom actually do this sh*t for free. Great advice as usual Logan

What's really funny is that I have access to the exact same info as everyone else, I just choose to use it.

[TKD]

What's really funny is that I have access to the exact same info as everyone else, I just choose to use it.

Another good post W8

But don't forget its not always easy to find the answers if you don't know what questions to ask

[mc_marty]

I used to do cardio in the morning on an empty stomach.. I did lose more weight that way than I do now, doing cardio after a workout. BUT, I notice that doing cardio AFTER a workout, I don't seem to get as small. I'm retaining more my size, but chiseling away fat that's clinging onto it.

[W8isGR8]

Another good post W8

But don't forget its not always easy to find the answers if you don't know what questions to ask

Bingo!