ive always been wondering what the best way to build back width is. it seems that most people think "wide grip for wide back". while looking at the anatomy of the back, this doesnt seem to be true. if wide grip pullups work the "upper lats" then where are they? according to the image, the "upper lats", as it would seem, are actually mostly made up of the Teres Major, and the Infraspinatus. the lat does go all the way up to the delts but its not like there is an upper head of the lattisimus dorsi.
if you look at the picture, you can see where the muscle actually is the most, is near the lower/middle back. so im thinking, wouldnt movements like deadlifts and rows do more for you lats than pullups? im not saying get rid of then all together but it seems like people get too cought up on doing those. in my experience, v handle pulldowns, barbell rows, and v handle cable rows did more for my lats then pullups. i actually felt it more in all of my lats with those and got a better pump. even when i dead lift i get a bit of a pump in my lats.
so im thinking that if you put more effort into movements that add mass like rows and deads, wouldnt you get wide? seeing as there are no "heads" to the lats, wouldnt the logical answer be that putting on lat mass will add mass on all of the lat?
please post comments, thoughts, experiences, and any other anatomy type answers as i am not an expert.
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Thread: The key to back width
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02-27-2006, 03:18 PM #1
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The key to back width
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02-27-2006, 03:20 PM #2
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for a better look, go here...
http://www.bartleby.com/107/illus409.html
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02-27-2006, 03:25 PM #3
I find that close grip chins and rows hit the lower back more and that wide grip chins hit the upper lats more. I Have always wondered why you don;t hear ppl talking about the teres major more because it seems as thought it makes up a large part of V-shape of the back.... You make a good point. I find bent rows hit the lower part of the traps really hard as well as the teres major.. idk .. the back is harder to "feel" working than other bodyparts in my opinion..
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02-27-2006, 03:32 PM #4
Because the lats are a convergant muscle, the fibers are arranged in a "fan" shape. This allows for greater range of movement(similar to the pecs). This also means that different lines of pull affect different muscle fibers. To figure out what fibers to hit hardest, find an exercise that mimics that line of pull as closely as possible.
I don't know either lol
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02-27-2006, 03:35 PM #5Originally Posted by timmy47
We've all seen Ronnie's back a million times so check out this photo of a guy named Joel Stubs. There's more than "lat width" going on there.
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02-27-2006, 03:40 PM #6Originally Posted by _Dominik_I don't know either lol
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02-27-2006, 03:50 PM #7
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02-27-2006, 03:58 PM #8
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Originally Posted by timmy47
I have now graduated to lat flyes which hit the teres major right on point. Lat building is not a simple thing and less experienced lifters seem to take a while before they figure that out. Some people cannot attain full lat development from simply doing vertical rowing movements with one grip width because the grip you use can really affect how your lats are hit.
A shoulder width or narrower neutral grip will really hammer the lats from the lat belly up. While a wider overhand grip seems to only hit the outer/upper lats and bring the teres into play. Chinups seem to be best for overall lat sweep but they don't seem to hit the upper lats/teres quite as hard as pullups with a pronated grip do.
Also most people cannot attain true lat thickness without some type of horizontal rowing movment such as bentover rows, t-bar rows etc. Building a great pair of lats takes a while and a lot goes into it. You might have to master different grips as well as rowing movements from various angles before you build a formidable pair.Last edited by DiamondDelts; 02-27-2006 at 04:00 PM.
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02-27-2006, 04:00 PM #9Originally Posted by W8isGR8
A little off topic, but it reminds me of the rhomboids which are pushing the traps out and contribute a lot to overall thickness. It's something I notice immediately when I look at someone's back. Either they have that thickness or they don't. That's why I feel quite strongly about using heavy poundages for training the back. They're deep muscles that won't be punching their way out from light machine rows and pulldowns. You've really got to slam them hard.
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02-27-2006, 04:06 PM #10
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Originally Posted by _Dominik_
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02-27-2006, 04:11 PM #11
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Originally Posted by _Dominik_
Are those pics from FLEX? That's where I saw this guy a few months back. There were a couple pics that dropped my jaw and he was just standing there relaxed."When my opponent contracts, I expand. And when he expands, I contract.
And when the opportunity arrives, *looks at clenched fist* I do not hit with it. It hits all by itself"-Bruce Lee
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If you're hungry.....it's too late.
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02-27-2006, 04:11 PM #12
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02-27-2006, 04:19 PM #13Originally Posted by Mike750
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02-27-2006, 04:21 PM #14
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02-27-2006, 04:22 PM #15
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02-27-2006, 04:23 PM #16
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02-27-2006, 04:26 PM #17
Looks like Zane did his pullovers.
I don't know either lol
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02-27-2006, 04:26 PM #18
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02-27-2006, 04:27 PM #19
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Originally Posted by W8isGR8Last edited by DiamondDelts; 02-27-2006 at 04:44 PM.
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02-27-2006, 04:28 PM #20
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02-27-2006, 04:59 PM #21
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I have always though that a wide back was the signature bodypart in terms of power. Lee Haney was my idol growing up(still is) and he is the main reason why I began lifting. Noobs seem to be so fatuated with benchpress/curl stats, big biceps, and huge pecs. But the back has always fascinated me since childhood. It is the most difficult muscle group to build to it's full potential due to it's complexity. It is not a noob muscle such as the biceps or chest. etc. But when it is built up, wow. Watch out.
http://www.leehaney.com/lee2.jpgLast edited by DiamondDelts; 02-27-2006 at 05:03 PM.
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02-27-2006, 05:20 PM #22
Different grip and hand placement is key. My back is one part I never have to worry about, here's my current routine:
1. Bent over Barbell Rows. Wide grip, to abs at some 60 degree angle
2. Wide grip Pullups. Overhand grip
3. Dumbell Rows. Bring the dumbell to torso than back ALL the way down. No jerking of the shoulder joint
4. Close grip Pulldowns. Underhand grip. Don't let the word pulldown scare you though
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02-27-2006, 05:24 PM #23
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05-10-2006, 05:39 PM #24
hey im just wondering do u guys think there would be a big significant difference between doing the wide grip pull down and the wide grip pullupz? i see everyone talking bout the pullupz but not mentioning the factors that make it so superior to the pull downs, so i was hopeing maybe someone here could chime in and turn on my light bulb for this one....thanx in advance
edit: by the way, have you guys seen Johnnie jackson's back, like right above his rhombz? (just going a lil bit down his kneck) i was wondering how da hellz do you get that? i haven't see anyone with one like that...do u guys know what part im talking about? heres a pic
Last edited by jampsifit; 05-10-2006 at 05:48 PM.
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05-10-2006, 05:52 PM #25
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05-10-2006, 05:59 PM #27
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05-10-2006, 06:04 PM #28
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05-10-2006, 06:09 PM #29
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05-10-2006, 06:36 PM #30
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