Why do you believe/not believe in God

[londontko]

I don't believe in an omnipotent, loving God who condemns people to eternal torment, since the concept is clearly self-contradictory. Likewise, myths are myths, whether or not they are touted around as some kind of holy text. Furthermore, large organised religions are run by people who believe mainly in furthering the power of their organisations above any other priority.

I'm not going to say there's definitely NOTHING out there, but God as described by organised religions is a crock.

God doesn't want you to go to hell, he wants you to choose to be with him in heaven, if you don't choose to accept god you are seperated from him for all eternity, that doesn't mean your going to be tortured 24/7, but you will live with regret and shame. Your right though a loving God shouldn't condemn people to eternal torment, that's why he doesn't, people choose to go there not God thus condemning themselves.

[CerealKiller]

I dont understand, would there have been any knowing of a "God" if there werent any religions?

My guess is if not for the "fear of the unknown" religions would cease to exist.

Most people seem to need this comfort.

[Persecuted]

Why do I believe in God? because ice floats.. (I'll come back to that)

My journey:

A while back about say 8 months or so I began to question alot of things my beliefs the reason why were here is there really a God etc etc.. I guess I will have to summarise it because it was an extensive period of research and study and there would not be enough room on this page to list it all.

I was a christian initially but didn't have any real strong belief or conviction of my faith I just believed it without questioning it. I had some muslim friends as well who were trying to share Islam with my and I willingly listened. They made some good points and i began to question christianity which I really didn't know too much about at the time. So I tried to see if I could find the answers if they were out there.

I decided to wait fortunately before jumping into anything. I said a prayer to whoever may be listening it was an honest prayer. I prayed that I was about to start looking for answers and I prayed that if there is a God would I please be lead on the right path.

To summarise my journey went as such; Started as non-practising christian, I then began to look into Islam and started to consider it quite seriously. Then I became disillusioned with islam, I started to consider atheism or agnosticism very seriously as well.. I didn't find atheistic answers very satisfying though, I found many of them to be absurd. At the end of my journey I came right back to where I started which was Christianity, except I had a far stronger conviction for my faith. I had a far greater understanding of other faiths and I also gained a very good knowledge of several fields of science.

I found it amazing that the more I searched the more I questioned the stronger my belief in not only a God but that Jesus Christ is that God. Many people especially here make statements that the Bible is pure fantasy or myths that were passed down. Well the bible itself actually invites us to test this and everything else 1 thessolonians 5:21-22. The apostle Paul tells us "Prove all things, hold fast to that which is good". The amazing thing is the more we learn about science the more the Bible is confirmed. Many people will scoff at this but I will outline below.

Confirmations of science in the Bible:

The Big bang -

Right from the beginning of the Bible the book of Genesis gives us a descriptive account of the creation of the Universe, Earth and the life on it. This account is surprisingly consistent with the big bang and the fossil record.

The atheistic predeiction for more than a century was that the universe was eternal. This prediction was completely shattered in the early 20th century with the discovery of the big bang and Einsteins theory of general relativity which both confirm each other.

So the big bang is actually one of the strongest evidences a Christian can sight for their belief in God. I find it amazing that right from the beginning of the book to the beginning of the universe we find consistent documentation in the bible.

The bible is even written in such a way that theistic evolutionists are able to support their beliefs by their own intepretation of Genesis.

Genesis tells us that plant life came first which is supported by the fossil record. It then goes on to state that the first animal life was brought forth from the seas which is again supported by the fossil record.

Then comes birds, land animals and last of all Man. The only thing of all of this seemingly out of place here is birds. There could be several reasons for this, I wont bother to go into it now. In any case lets assume birds were listed in correctly for now. The book of Genesis has still accurately confirmed the creation/appearance sequence of 4 out of the 5 types of life listed in the book and the fossil record.

This is all in the first chapter by the way.. In comparison with other cultures beliefs at the time the bible is in great contrast which is exhibited by it's accuracy. The bible also tells us that God exists independant of the universe and was the originator of the entire universe. All other creation accounts of any other culture or religion fall short of this prediction. Either the ancient Hebrews made some excellent uneducated guesses against all the odds, or they had inside information.

Next let's skip to the creation of Eve,

In the bible it says Eve was made from Adam's rib. From this I somewhat expected that men might generally have one less rib than women. I was wrong about this but found something else which is equally compelling.

Of all the bones in the body, the only bone that will grow back completely if removed is one of your rib bones.

I have taken a bit longer than I thought so I will make the others quick.

The bible is the only holy book or ancient document that states time had a beginning, which has now also been confirmed by modern science.

Ahh and yes as I said above Ice floats..

Compared to all the other elements that can exist in three states i.e. Liquid, Solid and Gas the only one that floats in it's frozen form is water.. The one element that is capable of sustaining life is also the one that floats.. Why is this important?

If ice didn't float it would obviously sink, the result of this would be that the earths oceans freeze over from the bottom up transforming the earth into an icy wasteland.

This is one of a great list of many finely tuned properties that lead me to believe the universe was designed by a mind of great intelligence.

Even if I didn't believe in christianity I would still be a deist because of the structure of the universe and life itself.

Thankyou for taking the time to read if you did...

[getting2big]

I believe in God

The reason for that is logic stands by this decision. Look Around you everything has a creator. Trees were created by past trees, YOU were created by sexual intercourse between your parents, computers were created by man. Nothing came from thin air, so how does someone assume that this universe, which is one of the greatest creations came from a BANG? That just isn’t acceptable and random and cant be/wasn’t proven but still atheist believe in it(who believe that science and proof is all, aren’t they contradicting themselves?).

If you want to take the easy way out then you can disbelieve in God. I believe that atheist just don’t like the idea of theist being right(maybe a childish remark but I just cant understand them). So again for you and all atheist if you want to believe and know the truth then don’t seek it until you have the true intention of wanting the truth no matter how it opposes what you believed in. Until you have this intention then its worthless.

[CerealKiller]

May the lord bless you both with the gift of brevity.

[AceVentura]

I believe in God

The reason for that is logic stands by this decision. Look Around you everything has a creator. Trees were created by past trees, YOU were created by sexual intercourse between your parents, computers were created by man. Nothing came from thin air, so how does someone assume that this universe, which is one of the greatest creations came from a BANG? That just isn’t acceptable and random and cant be/wasn’t proven but still atheist believe in it(who believe that science and proof is all, aren’t they contradicting themselves?).

If you want to take the easy way out then you can disbelieve in God. I believe that atheist just don’t like the idea of theist being right(maybe a childish remark but I just cant understand them). So again for you and all atheist if you want to believe and know the truth then don’t seek it until you have the true intention of wanting the truth no matter how it opposes what you believed in. Until you have this intention then its worthless.

lol this is a funny post. Again like we've discussed before, he's making the assumption that every single person that doesn't believe in God believe 100% that the Big Bang is what started the univerise. That's not true.

And saying that not believing in God is "taking the easy way out" is the funniest thing I've ever read! Last time I checked, throwing your faith behind a collection of stories unsubstantiated stories from 2000 years ago and believing that there is so entity controlling everyone's destinies so that you can convince yourself that when you die you're going up for eternity in some happy place is what most would call taking the easy way out. It might be hard for me personally to believe in God because I'd have to work to constantly try and fool my brain and suspend me belief in logic and reason which I've worked with for most of my life.

I don't believe in God, and I can accept that fact that when I die that's the end of my existance forever, and it doesn't bother me.

You're just making really silly arguments man, none of them have any logical basis. Your last one is the prime example of this. "People who don't believe in God only hold those beliefs because they don't like the idea of people who do believe in God being right"....... You're right, it is a childish argument.

I think the bottom line is, if you want to believe in God and it makes you feel better about yourself and life, then go for it. Who am I to tell you what you can or can't do. But you can't deny that fact that it is 100% impossible to justify religious belief logically.

[getting2big]

For the love of Christ can you people be less childish. I was giving my opinion, you could have atleast refuted it rather than making fun of it.

lol this is a funny post. Again like we've discussed before, he's making the assumption that every single person that doesn't believe in God believe 100% that the Big Bang is what started the univerise. That's not true.

Then be a little helpful and tell me what started the whole universe. Tell me what you believe in.

And saying that not believing in God is "taking the easy way out" is the funniest thing I've ever read! Last time I checked, throwing your faith behind a collection of stories unsubstantiated stories from 2000 years ago

That is an assumption which you have just made. Thats not the reason of my faith.

and believing that there is so entity controlling everyone's destinies so that you can convince yourself that when you die you're going up for eternity in some happy place is what most would call taking the easy way out.

Thats is also completely wrong. If this entity was controling your destiny then there is no use of you in this world. Because if I'm right you were trying to imply that we cant change our lives.

You information is all wrong.

It might be hard for me personally to believe in God because I'd have to work to constantly try and fool my brain and suspend me belief in logic and reason which I've worked with for most of my life.

Where does logic stand on things being created from thin air?

I don't believe in God, and I can accept that fact that when I die that's the end of my existance forever, and it doesn't bother me.

Time will prove everything.

You're just making really silly arguments man, none of them have any logical basis. Your last one is the prime example of this. "People who don't believe in God only hold those beliefs because they don't like the idea of people who do believe in God being right"....... You're right, it is a childish argument.

As I said everything has a creator, for that reason this universe MUST have a creator. That was logic.

I think the bottom line is, if you want to believe in God and it makes you feel better about yourself and life, then go for it. Who am I to tell you what you can or can't do. But you can't deny that fact that it is 100% impossible to justify religious belief logically.

Refute and give me the truth then tell me I'm not logical. You dont go up to a person and tell him he's wrong without telling what is right.

Reply intellectually or dont

[coontang]

I started to consider atheism or agnosticism very seriously as well.. I didn't find atheistic answers very satisfying though, I found many of them to be absurd.

Well, that's where you went wrong. Atheism isn't a belief system, so there are no "answers." Atheism is just non-belief in a certain version of the answers, IE religion. What I've found in my spiritual journey is that it's ok to admit that I don't know some things.

While I disagree with you, good post. At least you've looked into things more thoroughly.

I have to disagree with your contention that the bible agrees with science on the origins of life and our planet. For example, the bible has plants being created before the sun. You can pick and choose certain parts and say they agree with science, but it would be intellectually dishonest to ignore the parts that totally contradict it.

[1dayIWillBeBig]

One thing that is very true is that if Christianity is wrong it's of no importance whatsoever, none, however if it's true it's of infinite importance. I recommend that some of you out there that don't believe or are searching, take some time to research it, you have nothing to lose and everything to gain.

Thank you Pascal! I'll take that Wager and wipe my ass with it.

edit: Countless millions have gone along with Christianity merely as a form of "fire insurance." Better safe than sorry, which may be intellectual cowardice, but what a safe, and what a sorry.

[AceVentura]

For the love of Christ can you people be less childish. I was giving my opinion, you could have atleast refuted it rather than making fun of it.

Then be a little helpful and tell me what started the whole universe. Tell me what you believe in.

That is an assumption which you have just made. Thats not the reason of my faith.


Thats is also completely wrong. If this entity was controling your destiny then there is no use of you in this world. Because if I'm right you were trying to imply that we cant change our lives.

You information is all wrong.


Where does logic stand on things being created from thin air?

Time will prove everything.

As I said everything has a creator, for that reason this universe MUST have a creator. That was logic.

Refute and give me the truth then tell me I'm not logical. You dont go up to a person and tell him he's wrong without telling what is right.

Reply intellectually or dont

Lol stop being a girl you're coming off as really whiny.

You're taking the assumption that I'm trying to say I have all the answers. I'm not. My view on how the universe started is that maybe one day science will tell us how it started but for the time being nobody knows and it's impossible to know. But as far as my life is concerned, what difference does it make how the universe began.

What do you mean "everything has a creator". Sure everything starts from something else until you get down to the atomic level.. But I don't see how you think it is logical to draw from that that the initial creator up at the very top of the chain has to be some sort of intelligent being. It is logical to assume that since everything has a creator then the universe must have a creator, but for all we know it could be some chemical reaction that was the creator, or we're all just inside a computer game and some kid in another dimension pressing a button started it all, or in your case that God created everything. It's logical to assume that there is an explanation that exists, but it isn't logical to assume that the one you've chosen is the right one.

The logical standpoint on something being created from thin air is to say that you don't know. There are theories on these kinds of things, but nobody knows definitively how it all started. I don't claim to know how the universe started and my position on it is that at least for the time being it's impossible to know. That seems like a logical position to me. I don't have any evidence to suggest anything so as a result I cannot take a position on how it all started. How do you think it is logical to assume that because we can't figure it out sceintifically at this point in time that obviously the universe must have been created by some higher intelligence that decided to send his son down to Eart 2000 years ago and leave a book commanding his will upon everybody. It isn't logical to assume that.

You're really reaching here. You're arguing that if I want to prove that it's illogical to believe that God created the universe is if I have the answer to how the universe was created?

Read this book and you'll see why your position is illogical!

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/087...lance&n=283155

I'm not making fun of anything, I'm just making a logical argument, something you've yet to do here.

[londontko]

lol this is a funny post. Again like we've discussed before, he's making the assumption that every single person that doesn't believe in God believe 100% that the Big Bang is what started the univerise. That's not true.

And saying that not believing in God is "taking the easy way out" is the funniest thing I've ever read! Last time I checked, throwing your faith behind a collection of stories unsubstantiated stories from 2000 years ago and believing that there is so entity controlling everyone's destinies so that you can convince yourself that when you die you're going up for eternity in some happy place is what most would call taking the easy way out. It might be hard for me personally to believe in God because I'd have to work to constantly try and fool my brain and suspend me belief in logic and reason which I've worked with for most of my life.

I don't believe in God, and I can accept that fact that when I die that's the end of my existance forever, and it doesn't bother me.

You're just making really silly arguments man, none of them have any logical basis. Your last one is the prime example of this. "People who don't believe in God only hold those beliefs because they don't like the idea of people who do believe in God being right"....... You're right, it is a childish argument.

I think the bottom line is, if you want to believe in God and it makes you feel better about yourself and life, then go for it. Who am I to tell you what you can or can't do. But you can't deny that fact that it is 100% impossible to justify religious belief logically.

Miracles lie outside science, they don't contradict science, there is a differance. Here's an example, the law of gravity says that if you drop an object it will fall to the earth, so if an apple falls from a tree it will fall to the ground... BUT if you reach out and grab that apple before it hits the ground, your not negating or violating the law of gravity, your merely intervering.

It is not just a provocative rumor that God has acted in history, but a fact worthy of our intellectual conviction. The miracles of Christianity are not an embarrassment to the Christian worldview. Rather. they are testimony to the compassion of God for human beings benighted by sin and circumstance.

- Gary Habermas

[riptor]

The reasons that people give for believing in God are all illogical. If somebody wants to believe in God because it makes them feel better about life, that's fine, it's their choice and not mine to criticize. But to argue that it's a logical choice based upon rational thinking is pure silliness.

I'm not critcizing your post, I'm not sure which side you're on, I'm just assessing that for Melkor to answer to.

Actually I'm agnostic. Micheal Shermer's study was to prove that people rationalized their own beliefs by trying to give logical reasons to their beliefs. That is why the majority of people who claim to believe in God claim to do so because of design/fine tuning, etc. But when the same people were asked why they thought other people believed in God they gave emotional reasons. I agree with Shermer when he says that basically everyone believes in God for emotional reasons. And I also have to agree with him that believing for emotional reasons is the best way to believe. But when people try to claim that scientific evidence supports their faith, then they have to prove it. If religion wants to pretend to be a science, then it has to play by the rules of science.

He does a much better job of explaining this in his book "Why People Believe Weird Things".

[AceVentura]

Miracles lie outside science, they don't contradict science, there is a differance. Here's an example, the law of gravity says that if you drop an object it will fall to the earth, so if an apple falls from a tree it will fall to the ground... BUT if you reach out and grab that apple before it hits the ground, your not negating or violating the law of gravity, your merely intervering.

... so catching an apple before it hits the ground is a miracle that science can't explain? It is intervening, I don't really see what point you're trying to make.

[londontko]

... so catching an apple before it hits the ground is a miracle that science can't explain? It is intervening, I don't really see what point you're trying to make.

lol it's supposed to be an analogy for God intervening, It makes sense to me!

[reignoffire]

I believe in God, just not it's religion(s).

Exactly.


I feel, with all my being, that there is a God. I can 'feel' my soul, if that makes sense. I know it. I know he exists. If people don't want to believe thats fine with me.... that's free will in effect.

[Amris]

I believe in God from personal experiences (defiance of natural laws with no scientific explaination), as well as study. I am not a Christian, but I was one. I have studied Hinduism, Taoism, Christianity, Wicca, and more.

I have come to the personal conclusion that there is truth in all religions, and none contain all of the truth.

I have died and been resuscitated twice. After the first time was when I left Christianity. Prior to that, I was raised 7th Day Adventist, then later became a Born-Again Evangelical (Then died and was brought back, and not long after that took the terrifying step after a fast and prayer, to study other religions- not long after that, "I left the faith" and became whatever I am now).

My belief of what/who god is, is entirely unlike any religion I know of.

[AceVentura]

lol it's supposed to be an analogy for God intervening, It makes sense to me!

how does me catching an apple have anything to do with God intervening?

[londontko]

Are you serious? It's kinda a simple analogy, I'm not trying to be condescending but you really don't see what I'm trying to say?

[AceVentura]

Are you serious? It's kinda a simple analogy, I'm not trying to be condescending but you really don't see what I'm trying to say?

I dunno man maybe I'm missing something but I really don't see your argument.

You said, miracles lie out of the realm of science.

Then as an example you said if I catch an apple I'm not negating the law of gravity I'm intervening. I really have no idea what kind of point you're trying to make.

[coontang]

Are you serious? It's kinda a simple analogy, I'm not trying to be condescending but you really don't see what I'm trying to say?

Honestly, it's a pretty weak analogy. You're not violating any law when you catch a falling apple. You're not "intervening" for that matter. There's no law that says a falling apple has to hit the ground. lol.

[londontko]

Honestly, it's a pretty weak analogy. You're not violating any law when you catch a falling apple. You're not "intervening" for that matter. There's no law that says a falling apple has to hit the ground. lol.

wow, just wow.....

I guess if you get it you get it, if not...... wow

[AceVentura]

wow, just wow.....

I guess if you get it you get it, if not...... wow

Man I think you're the only one who understands the analogy. It doesn't make any sense to anybody else. Please explain what you mean, because I have no clue.

[1dayIWillBeBig]

Man I think you're the only one who understands the analogy. It doesn't make any sense to anybody else. Please explain what you mean, because I have no clue.

Man, what is your problem!

What hes' trying to say is, just believe in god. god made you catch the apple. Duhh!!!

stop questioning god and start reading the bible.

Are you asking for a 1-way ticket into hell?!







all jokes ^

[notorius1]

I would like to know what reasons for believing in / not believing in a God are. This is for a research type project and I would be most grateful for as many relpies as possible.

Thanks

I believe that there is a possibility of more than one god but I also believe that there is a possibility of only one.I also believe that whichever one exists doesn't give two ****s about what we do down here.

[coontang]

wow, just wow.....

I guess if you get it you get it, if not...... wow

Well, you have yet to explain it to anybody, so I think you don't get it either. You're comparing a miracle, which by definition contradicts the laws of physics and is unexplainable, to me catching a falling apple, which is easily explained by science? How in the hell are they the same? And how does it validate your fairy tale?

[londontko]

I am trying to show you that miracles lay outside of science and need not contradict it. The apple falling from the tree represents a law, see if you can guess which one? The hand represents intervention from God, re-read it now and see if it makes more sense.

[londontko]

You know what to save the frustration, the apple falling out of the tree is the law of gravity. I'm not sure if you knew this but Issac Newton (The guy who came up with the law of gravity) was inspiried by watching an apple fall to the ground while he was sitting underneath an apple tree. Actually he was also a devout Christian.

[AceVentura]

I am trying to show you that miracles lay outside of science and need not contradict it. The apple falling from the tree represents a law, see if you can guess which one? The hand represents intervention from God, re-read it now and see if it makes more sense.

Why does me catching the apple represent intervention from God?/? It's easily explained by science. You really need to brush up on your argument skills man because that doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

And again, you're being rediculous. What does Isaac Newton being a Christian have to do with the law of gravity whatsoever... You're taking 2 things that are totally external of one another and trying to form relationships between them that don't exist.

Maybe we're all idiots but it seems you're just confusing me even more with every point you make.

[notorius1]

Actually he was also a devout Christian.

This was also during a time when scientists who opposed the church were labled heretics and were then burned at the stake so.....

[londontko]

Why does me catching the apple represent intervention from God?/? It's easily explained by science. You really need to brush up on your argument skills man because that doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

And again, you're being rediculous. What does Isaac Newton being a Christian have to do with the law of gravity whatsoever... You're taking 2 things that are totally external of one another and trying to form relationships between them that don't exist.

Maybe we're all idiots but it seems you're just confusing me even more with every point you make.

First of all I'm done trying to explain lol, I really don't know where I went wrong explaining it but it's clear that either I really screwed up or you just don't understand it, it's a fairly popular analogy so clearly it's not just me that gets it.

Second I mentioned Issac Newton because another genius stated that there is no law that an apple falling from a tree has to hit the ground. I thought maybe a little history lesson might be in order. Your right, Newton being a Christian has nothing to do with the law of gravity, I don't recall saying that it did, just throwing a fact out there as it kinda pertains to the discussion we are having.... you know... the one about RELIGION...

I'm really tired of arguing the point, clearly your not going to understand anything I say because your a lot smarter then me so I think I'll stop trying.