Serious Discussion On HIT/Heavy Duty/Abbreviated Training

[fbcoach]

HIT is an extremely misguided approach to athletics training.

When Arthur Jones ventured into athletic strength and conditioning industry, his imitable approach was, as always, nothing new under the sun, in which he worshipped. He had already conquered many myths and superstitions in the industries he had dominated previously. His approach to wild animal conservation and relocation was done in a way that had never been seen before or since. He had vanquished the experts that laughed and scoffed at him and told him he could not survive and succeed in uncharted and dangerous territories. He incredibly succeeded in spite of their lofty opinions. He filmed over 300 episodes of a TV Wild Life Series that made anything made since look like child's play. And so, when he wrote his first articles on athletic training, he dropped bombs on every silly training philosophy that had ever existed. The result is that these were the most brilliant of his works. They so far exceeded anything on the scene that nothing before or since could ever rival such excellence. His passionate desire to communicate the facts over the fables is evident in every article in this series. Brian Johnston brings back to life the genius' best works, a must read for anyone involved in any way shape or form in the fitness field. Arthur's works here forever will change your direction in exercise as it relates to sports training, but in a positive way.

-David (delusions of godhood) Landau
^^^^^^^^^

http://arthurjonesexercise.com/Athle...icJournal.html

Reading this bulletin it becomes clear why there are NO high level profesional athletes using this system.

The first team in the NFL to use HIT and the nautilus machines won a few Super Bowls. Some fool decided to retest the players speed, endurance and strength. After reviewing the results they dropped HIT and donated the machines to a community fitness center. Let's see if FBcoach knows what team it was.

C'mon.....what team was closest to Deland, Florida? Don Schula and the MIAMI DOLPHINS baby
I remember pictures of Mercury Morris training on Nautilus

[all pro]

C'mon.....what team was closest to Deland, Florida? Don Schula and the MIAMI DOLPHINS baby
I remember pictures of Mercury Morris training on Nautilus

YOU SUCK!!! I HATE YOU!!!
But you're right. The only ones to dump HIT faster then the Dolphins were the NY Jets when Mangini took over. No one coming out of the Pat's system or the Packers would touch HIT.

[fbcoach]

Have you ever told the posters at Dardens about this?

They don't want to hear anything that upsets their close-minded world there. Two things I notice there: 1) They never refute my statements, it usually just a personal insult..which I could appreciate, but they're not even funny or witty..just..well, just simple like themselves, and 2) They train using cycles/periodization/dft, but they either aren't aware of it or just don't understand it.

[N@tural1]

They don't want to hear anything that upsets their close-minded world there. Two things I notice there: 1) They never refute my statements, it usually just a personal insult..which I could appreciate, but they're not even funny or witty..just..well, just simple like themselves, and 2) They train using cycles/periodization/dft, but they either aren't aware of it or just don't understand it.

100% agree'd

while Il post links to proof of what i say those guys do not. They respond with a typical everyone is wrong but them mentality but provide no evidence.

I truely never knew such a group existed before I started using forums regularly.

all pro and Defiant1 warned me, but I had no idea as to the extent of the mentality of the "jedi"

[all pro]

100% agree'd

while Il post links to proof of what i say those guys do not. They respond with a typical everyone is wrong but them mentality but provide no evidence.

I truely never knew such a group existed before I started using forums regularly.

all pro and Defiant1 warned me, but I had no idea as to the extent of the mentality of the "jedi"

[m_risinger]

like ive said a thousand times, every single question anyone wants to know about hit has been answered. Don't you think dorian yates for an example would of done more sets since he was training to try to win the olympia as just one example.
I would gladly stop doing hit if there was a better routine.

[all pro]

like ive said a thousand times, every single question anyone wants to know about hit has been answered. Don't you think dorian yates for an example would of done more sets since he was training to try to win the olympia as just one example.
I would gladly stop doing hit if there was a better routine.

He used more than 1 set too failure.
http://www.t-nation.com/readArticle.do?id=460865

[m_risinger]

yes but he started out with hit training, and did hit training during his olympia run and he continues to train people with hit style and that is a fact, not an opinion.

[all pro]

yes but he started out with hit training, and did hit training during his olympia run and he continues to train people with hit style and that is a fact, not an opinion.

No, it is a bold faced LIE. As the interview I linked to PROVES.

[m_risinger]

lmao there are thousands of athletes using hit and still today many never heard of jones, mentzer or hit but many many every day are leaving volume and going towards hit training, not the other way around.
ON a side note hit training is not geared towards machines. Another myth

[all pro]

lmao there are thousands of athletes using hit and still today many never heard of jones, mentzer or hit but many many every day are leaving volume and going towards hit training, not the other way around.
ON a side note hit training is not geared towards machines. Another myth

Nope. There are NO profesional athletes using 1 set to failure. None. Not a one. I get so many PMs from the frustrated HITers at Darden's asking for help that I can hardly keep up. The 2 most popular programs on this site are Starting Strength and Starr's 5x5. Those people aren't asking for help. They're getting bigger and stronger every minute.

[m_risinger]

not as many pm's as i get from volume posters here that are in fear of getting negged if they make a hit post or want help with their hit routine or to even try it. From reading most posts, people fail on 5x5 with the exception of a few.

Not one pro. i can name over 50 without even thinking about it.

[patleb940]

not as many pm's as i get from volume posters here that are in fear of getting negged if they make a hit post or want help with their hit routine or to even try it. From reading most posts, people fail on 5x5 with the exception of a few.

Not one pro. i can name over 50 without even thinking about it.

Ok, go ahead... very curious. Name at least 10 well-known athletes whose training regimen could be easily verifiable.

[GuyJin]

"Thousands of athletes using HIT?"

Oh, really?

Okay, pop quiz. Name thirty TOP pro football players, ten TOP pro or amateur bodybuilders, and thirty TOP baseball players who use and advocate HIT. Considering that there are a sh-tload of baseball and football players out there, it shouldn't be too difficult...even for you.

[Orlando1234977]

not as many pm's as i get from volume posters here that are in fear of getting negged if they make a hit post or want help with their hit routine or to even try it. From reading most posts, people fail on 5x5 with the exception of a few.

Not one pro. i can name over 50 without even thinking about it.

A bit hard to imagine that people would put 'fear of getting negged' on an internet forum from some random person they've never met ahead of improvements on personal training program that alters their lives in a positive way. But I guess anythings possible.

[all pro]

"Thousands of athletes using HIT?"

Oh, really?

Okay, pop quiz. Name thirty TOP pro football players, ten TOP pro or amateur bodybuilders, and thirty TOP baseball players who use and advocate HIT. Considering that there are a sh-tload of baseball and football players out there, it shouldn't be too difficult...even for you.

Let's fix that up just a little bit.
SINGLE SET TOO FAILURE ONLY.

O.K. go for it.

[JonnyStead]

not as many pm's as i get from volume posters here that are in fear of getting negged if they make a hit post or want help with their hit routine or to even try it. From reading most posts, people fail on 5x5 with the exception of a few.

Not one pro. i can name over 50 without even thinking about it.

Just to throw in my views - I did 5x5 and got great results. I've also asked questions about HIT on here and even suggested people use HIT (as part of mixing up their routines for variety) and havent had any negs for doing either of those things as far as I know...

thats my 2 cents

[fbcoach]

Just to throw in my views - I did 5x5 and got great results. I've also asked questions about HIT on here and even suggested people use HIT (as part of mixing up their routines for variety) and havent had any negs for doing either of those things as far as I know...

thats my 2 cents

DITTO!!
Hey Risinger..I know of a site where there are a whole lot of risnger-like clones. You would love it there. You should check it out. They need to get straightened out on HIT.

[N@tural1]

Not one pro. i can name over 50 without even thinking about it.

Waiting.......

[GuyJin]

You're gonna have a very long wait on this, brit...

Call it risingers' "Rest Pause While I Think Up More Bullsh-t" to write about--the pause being about 100 years or so...

[N@tural1]

I was challenged on Dardens to give an example of an elite level natural lifter that uses volume. I explained that at the top level drugs are used so we have to look at top level NATURAL events.

I then gave two examples, 2 time natural Mr O John Hanson and Natural Pro Layne Norton. Both train using multi sets.

OWNED!

[patleb940]

You're gonna have a very long wait on this, brit...

Call it risingers' "Rest Pause While I Think Up More Bullsh-t" to write about--the pause being about 100 years or so...

Hahaha! Funny!

[N@tural1]

http://www.elitefts.com/documents/pe...simplified.htm

^^ killer article about dual factor programing, periodization, total tonnage (workload) and the effects of intensity and volume on the muscle and CNS.

All of which the clowns at another certain HIT board want to deny and label as BS

[mrhighintensity]

Also right now I'm doing HIIT 3x a week and eating 2200 cals a day(yes cutting)

So would this still be a good program to do while on a cut?

"Cutting takes place in the kitchen" - has little to do with your training program - the amount of "cuts" you going to get is all based on how lean you can get and how (in the last stage) you able to manipulate water and sodium levels in your body - HIT is a perfect tool to maintain muscle while on a low calorie diet - you might wanna however back off from it the last 10 days before a contest - there is no need at this time to go that intense...rather use higher reps to later on create the supercompensation effect in your muscle (reversing the sodium/potasium levels while depleting glygogen levels and later loading them up).

I used HIT during most of my shows - I did cycle some of the intensity levels and sometimes added a few extra sets (mike would turn in his grave i know-lol) but for the most part did HIT and had great results. Always showed up full and harder then when I did higher volume contest preps, which left me exhausted and flat along with a loss in muscle mass.

MR
Musclemania Worlchampion and Pro level athlete
www.markusreinhardt.com

[N@tural1]

I did cycle some of the intensity levels and sometimes added a few extra sets (mike would turn in his grave i know-lol)

Is this something you do sometimes Markus? Use multiple sets but not to failure?

[m_risinger]

he said name one, junior seau and as far as mentioning who did one set to failure, all you would do is say they only did it for a few cycles or something.

But i can name, kevin hardy, walter mccarty, tony delk, jay cutler of the broncos, anythony munoz talked about hit training in a local football camp last year and was always a hit trainer, abbas khatami, usa national powerlifter david showtime anguish. Lee Labrada in his own words admitted he gained more muscle doing mentzer hit than any other routine and had to stop so he wouldn't get so big because he is a bodybuilder.
Brad Pitt did one set to failure with a rep speed of ten up and ten down for years.
Pro wrestler Brian Lawler, jeff jarrett both did hit training, as well as a few pro wrestlers i know in the lousville ky area that wrestle for ohio valley wrestling,
People that do lets say 135 for ten reps, 185 for 5 , 200 for 5 and then 225 to failure is pretty much warmup sets and one set to failure.
The workout Mohammed El Makkaway used in the late 90's and early 2000's when he made his come back was one set to failure training and in his own words he gained more mass on it in his 50's then the gironda routine he did in his 20's and 30s'.

If you read ironman magazine you see many articles of people that do one set training with an added 2nd set which is pretty much just a warmup set or one drop set throughout half the magazine.

Jeff Reinebold of the hawaii rainbows trains his players in one set to failure hit training for about 12 weeks a year, feel free to email him and ask.

Mitchell Sammons did hit training and trains his kickboxers with hit training.

Rick Pitino's basketball workout is pretty much a modified hit training routine and yes one set, no 2nd set.

Marty Simmons,university of evansville basketball team is currently doing one set to failure weight training. Seen it with my own eyes today since i was there and he pretty much started hit training because of my talk with him and reading up on hit training.

Jim Crews, head coach of Army's basketball team does hit training.

Mean joe greene, mike alstot, john philbin, greg kovacs did 2 sets and admitted he think he got the job done on one set but just did a second set just incase but probaly wasn't needed.

Kevin Blackburn of Memphis benched 600 in a recent competition in chicago and does one set to failure training at a bodyweight of 242.

Do you want me to name more and i don't have to name any if i don't want. the fact that the people i mentioned gained on hit means nothing as far as if it works or not.

[N@tural1]

How many of the above are top level natural bodybuilders?

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpo...postcount=1371

[GerryHitman]

he said name one, junior seau and as far as mentioning who did one set to failure, all you would do is say they only did it for a few cycles or something.

But i can name, kevin hardy, walter mccarty, tony delk, jay cutler of the broncos, anythony munoz talked about hit training in a local football camp last year and was always a hit trainer, abbas khatami, usa national powerlifter david showtime anguish. Lee Labrada in his own words admitted he gained more muscle doing mentzer hit than any other routine and had to stop so he wouldn't get so big because he is a bodybuilder.
Brad Pitt did one set to failure with a rep speed of ten up and ten down for years.
Pro wrestler Brian Lawler, jeff jarrett both did hit training, as well as a few pro wrestlers i know in the lousville ky area that wrestle for ohio valley wrestling,
People that do lets say 135 for ten reps, 185 for 5 , 200 for 5 and then 225 to failure is pretty much warmup sets and one set to failure.
The workout Mohammed El Makkaway used in the late 90's and early 2000's when he made his come back was one set to failure training and in his own words he gained more mass on it in his 50's then the gironda routine he did in his 20's and 30s'.

If you read ironman magazine you see many articles of people that do one set training with an added 2nd set which is pretty much just a warmup set or one drop set throughout half the magazine.

Jeff Reinebold of the hawaii rainbows trains his players in one set to failure hit training for about 12 weeks a year, feel free to email him and ask.

Mitchell Sammons did hit training and trains his kickboxers with hit training.

Rick Pitino's basketball workout is pretty much a modified hit training routine and yes one set, no 2nd set.

Marty Simmons,university of evansville basketball team is currently doing one set to failure weight training. Seen it with my own eyes today since i was there and he pretty much started hit training because of my talk with him and reading up on hit training.

Jim Crews, head coach of Army's basketball team does hit training.

Mean joe greene, mike alstot, john philbin, greg kovacs did 2 sets and admitted he think he got the job done on one set but just did a second set just incase but probaly wasn't needed.

Kevin Blackburn of Memphis benched 600 in a recent competition in chicago and does one set to failure training at a bodyweight of 242.

Do you want me to name more and i don't have to name any if i don't want. the fact that the people i mentioned gained on hit means nothing as far as if it works or not.

Great Post
As Britney would say OWNED!
Yes please name more, there are plenty listed even here at bb.com there are many top natural bodybuilders using HIT type training

[N@tural1]

Great Post
As Britney would say OWNED!

Not owned matey

Im still waiting on how many of those names are top level natural bodybuilders.

I take it you read NATURAL Mr Olympia John Hansons reply when asked how most the NATURAL top bodybuilders train?

""I would say almost all the natural bodybuilders I know use multiple exercises and sets per bodypart as opposed to one single set per exercise. However, most natural bodybuilders (if they are smart) won't train everyday without taking a rest day and they usually won't train twice a day (a double split routine). But, to answer your question, I don't know very many natural bodybuilders who use the HIT method of training with only one set per exercise.""

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpo...postcount=1371


Oh and Gerry, you may want to read the first few posts of my thread:

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=108786601

Might learn something.

What was that you were saying about owned?

[N@tural1]

Great Post
Yes please name more, there are plenty listed even here at bb.com there are many top natural bodybuilders using HIT type training

I'd like to know who at the top level of natural bodybuilding uses SSTF, and I don't mean low volume abbreviated training or certain HIT variants but strictly 1 set per exercise.

They maybe some, but the amount using multi sets and i dont just mean high volume, I mean anything more than just 1 set FAR out weighs them.