Serious Discussion On HIT/Heavy Duty/Abbreviated Training

[Kelei]

lol

[Orlando1234977]

Coach,
I have read many of your posts, and you stated many times over and over that HIT trainers do not make changes or cycle. I was suprised you keep saying this when you know this is not the case having visited HIT sites such as PureHit where plenty of cycling is going on among its members.

Regarding MM books yes I have read them, and what I read was many diffrent HIT workouts that could be cycled. I read where Mike made diffrent HIT workouts for diffrent clients he was training that was best suited to their needs.

You also know there are many who have done HIT for MANY years without changing to volume for periods of time and have built great bodies and contuinue to finds way within HIT to keep the progress going. We meantioned John heart, there are many others, and many other world wide doing the same. So these statements being made by yourself and others that HIT always stalls without exception are simply false, and I know you know this, so I wonder why you say it.

What do I hope to acomplish here? To learn from what is written, and in cases like this to help correct falsehoods concerning a very valid workout system of High Intensity Training.
Billy

What I've always heard FBCoach say, is that those that are successful with HIT, cycle it. Meaning that HIT has it's place, (which is quite generous).
Also, I may be wrong, but I think when he's saying cycle it, he's referring to LOAD, not cycles of different programs. (The need to reduce the weight and start a new cycle to build up to and beyond your new max, rather then endlessly trying to beat your max.)

[fbcoach]

What I've always heard FBCoach say, is that those that are successful with HIT, cycle it. Meaning that HIT has it's place, (which is quite generous).
Also, I may be wrong, but I think when he's saying cycle it, he's referring to LOAD, not cycles of different programs. (The need to reduce the weight and start a new cycle to build up to and beyond your new max, rather then endlessly trying to beat your max.)

Thank you Orlando....that is exactly what I have always stated.

I wouldn't worry about momofo..er, I mean Billy-Bob. Until he says something intelligent, OOPS..there I go again..overestimating one of the minions of jedi in the Land of Oz. Sorry about that Mr. Fish By the way, I am flattered that my posts are top priority in your reading. You give me way too much credit But Thank You!!

[Kelei]

Everything should be cycled, the routine, the reps, the sets, the exercises, even switching doritos for CC's will have an effect.

[all pro]

Thank you Orlando....that is exactly what I have always stated.

I wouldn't worry about momofo..er, I mean Billy-Bob. Until he says something intelligent, OOPS..there I go again..overestimating one of the minions of jedi in the Land of Oz. Sorry about that Mr. Fish By the way, I am flattered that my posts are top priority in your reading. You give me way too much credit But Thank You!!

Good call coach. We got the pick and we're doing the electric slide in the end zone. HI-FIVE!!!
Urm, too bad Fishie, better luck next time......NOT!!

On another note, I haven't been online as much the last few days. At D1's insistence I bought the book Super Training by Mel Siff. If you haven't read it GET IT!! His sources are our good friends from the former eastern block. This book is awesome and should be required reading by all athletes and their coach's.

[Orlando1234977]

Good call coach. We got the pick and we're doing the electric slide in the end zone. HI-FIVE!!!
Urm, too bad Fishie, better luck next time......NOT!!

On another note, I haven't been online as much the last few days. At D1's insistence I bought the book Super Training by Mel Siff. If you haven't read it GET IT!! His sources are our good friends from the former eastern block. This book is awesome and should be required reading by all athletes and their coach's.

Wish I was still an athlete or a coach, but is it a good book for bodybuilding too? (I'm assuming yes since it was D1's reco.)

[all pro]

Wish I was still an athlete or a coach, but is it a good book for bodybuilding too? (I'm assuming yes since it was D1's reco.)

There is SO MUCH good info in there....for ANYONE. Speed, Power, Flexibility, Mobility, Strength, Endurance, Programing, HYPERTROPHY!!!!!!!!

[fbcoach]

Good call coach. We got the pick and we're doing the electric slide in the end zone. HI-FIVE!!!
Urm, too bad Fishie, better luck next time......NOT!!

On another note, I haven't been online as much the last few days. At D1's insistence I bought the book Super Training by Mel Siff. If you haven't read it GET IT!! His sources are our good friends from the former eastern block. This book is awesome and should be required reading by all athletes and their coach's.

Gotcha All Pro....he's not too hard to figure out!!

On the other note....one of mu coaches has the book. I am definitely going to look at it.

[Billy-Boy]

Thank you Orlando....that is exactly what I have always stated.

I wouldn't worry about momofo..er, I mean Billy-Bob. Until he says something intelligent, OOPS..there I go again..overestimating one of the minions of jedi in the Land of Oz. Sorry about that Mr. Fish By the way, I am flattered that my posts are top priority in your reading. You give me way too much credit But Thank You!!

Coach,
To stay within HIT principles, one would not have a cycle of reduced weight and work up from there. This is not HIT and you know this coach. The principle of taking every working set to failure is also an important HIT procedure that is not to be compromised otherwise it?s not HIT anymore.

I have said, and you can laugh and do your little dance, but we both know the point:

There are MANY who have stayed within the HIT principles for many years and NEVER needed to cycle into non-HIT programs to keep progress going and have built great bodies using HIT exclusively so YES it can and IS being done.

Those who deny this, need to search and do some research. Until then please stop spreading false information
Thanks.

PS Im not MR. Fish whoever that is.

Billy

[Justin-27]

There are MANY who have stayed within the HIT principles for many years and NEVER needed to cycle into non-HIT programs to keep progress going and have built great bodies using HIT exclusively so YES it can and IS being done.

Those who deny this, need to search and do some research. Until then please stop spreading false information
Thanks.

Billy

Dear Billy,

I'd bet (2) 400lb chicks, and (3) bags of Doritos that for every one trainee that continues getting fantastic results from HIT=2.6969693942 million trainees that continue to get fantastic results with volume training.

Sincerely,
Justin

[Billy-Boy]

Dear Billy,

I'd bet (2) 400lb chicks, and (3) bags of Doritos that for every one trainee that continues getting fantastic results from HIT=2.6969693942 million trainees that continue to get fantastic results with volume training.

Sincerely,
Justin

Did you go to school Justy? Every one with even half a clue knows that those traning volume greatly out-number those training HIT maybe 50,0000 to 1 or more, so of course from the much larger pool you will see more with results.

The point I was making in case you missed it as you do most things, is there are many who use HIT and get great results, that NEVER cycle volume or other training programs, and yet contuinue to progress for many years.
Everyone knows the problems of sticking points, plateaus, etc happen to all training systems, and need to be overcome.

I have seem MANY who have trained volume for many years and not seen progress or growth for many years. look around any gym and you will see many of these. They pump pump pump, and nothing new happenes. Why because they have not over stressed their body above that which was adapted to in the past.

Also an if we wanted to compare numbers between those not using steriods, the HITTers would win by comparision of percentages of all doing HIT and all doing volume. This is because of the nature of HIT being that of focusing on the higher weights, which as we know does put the body into new areas of adaptation.

With volume yes you can increase workload and this will act as a stressor and provide some further growth up to a point, but the tendency is to get bogged down in doing more volume which leads to overtraining due to incomplete recovery.

The HITTers will gain faster, and those wanting to put on a few pounds of muscle fast can do so. Hitters who want to keep growing will need to be of higher motivation going for the higher intensities which not all will want to do. This is true with volume also, not all have what it takes to build larger muscles and keep building over the long haul. The reasons being number 1-lack of desire and motivation, and then- poor genetics etc.

Lets assume in the comparison between HIT and volume that both groups have as their number 1 purpose, muscle growth.
Reason I bring this up is many are more concerned with endurance and training the body to do more work, and athlete training. This is not bodybuilding. True bodybuilding is about building muscle, and being lean with low body-fat levels, this is bodybuilding. And many posting here are not really into bodybuilding, but rather stength training, weight lifting, Football training, and other sports training etc.

These use resistance training for conditioning for their sports. Strange how many of these want to argue apples with oranges, and bodybuilding with what they are into.

Which I believe is why there are so many arguments on some of these threads.

Billy

[Orlando1234977]

Utilizing a scheduled deload is a great way to manage the affects of overtraining when focusing on *increasing poundage.

*(not HIT exclusive).

[Billy-Boy]

Utilizing a scheduled deload is a great way to manage the affects of overtraining when focusing on *increasing poundage.

*(not HIT exclusive).

I agree, taking time away from the weights is not HIT exclusive. HITTers however when "de-loading" tend to stay away from the weight altogether as opposed to lifting lighter with other programs like volume. I do understand that some volume lifters also take time away from the gym also.

The HIT principle here is when you rest, your really rest, to get the max recovery to then increase the intensity as much as possible. I agree plateaus and sticking points will come, and it seems much faster with HIT, due to the much faster progress, everything is in high gear.

Again this is great for someone wanting to put on some muscle fast. Now for the few more serious HITers, much more desire and commitment will be required, to reach up above the plateaus and go on to the next growth cycle and next plateau.

There are few, but this is also true with volume and other training systems, is my main point.

With HIT, I believe a person with enough desire and drive can reach their full genetic potential faster than with other training systems, especally in the fully natural bodybuilder, But this is just my personal viewpoint.

[N@tural1]

HITers however when "de-loading" tend to stay away from the weight altogether as opposed to lifting lighter with other programs like volume.

Volume isn't a training program, volume is simply set x reps.

Volume is a part of ALL training systems be it high or low.

I am tired of reading "volume" as the opposite of HIT

The HIT principle here is when you rest, your really rest, to get the max recovery to then increase the intensity as much as possible. I agree plateaus and sticking points will come, and it seems much faster with HIT, due to the much faster progress.

Says who?


2 questions

1/ I agree that HIT or abbreviated training can work well for strength, but some lifters simply don't put on enough mass relative to strength gains.

What would you recommend for these lifters?

2/ Can you give me an example how an HITer would cycle/periodize training to keep from platue's?

[Justin-27]

I don't think Billy boi has ever heard of Charles Poliquin. You know, the athletic trainer that has the German Volume Training program...yeah the one where most trainees gain 12 lbs of muscle in 8-12 weeks.

The problem is, most bodybuilders (including me at one time) believe you HAVE to train for hypertrophy all the time, HAVE to blast only 1-2 bp's a day, HAVE to rest 7 days before training that bp again, etc, etc. It wasn't until I stopped feeling sorry for myself (wahh I'm a hardgainer mentality) and started training more often, hitting each bp more often, and focusing on the big movements over lame bodybuilding isolation....that I gained tons of muscle.

So, Billy Boy, since you HITers LOVE isolation, and machines....let's see your body of work it built! I anxiously await!

[Billy-Boy]

Billy, 2 questions

1/ I agree that HIT or abbreviated training can work well for strength, but some lifters simply don't put on enough mass relative to strength gains.

What would you recommend for these lifters?

2/ Can you give me an example how an HITer would cycle/periodize training to keep from platue's?

Hi,
well I do not believe we can do anything to keep from hitting plateaus. This is a part of bodybuilding, if you are progressing regardless of the system/style.

The issue is how do we break through the sticking point after reaching one.

Now before I give examples of HOW, lets look at what are we trying to accomplish in the first place? Is our goal to build as much muscle as possible and reach our full genetic potential in muscle mass while at the same time achieving the lowest possible fat levels?

If the answer here is yes, then we are bodybuilders with a goal, reaching our full genetic potential in muscle and leanness. I believe we will all agree that everyone has a genetic limit for how much lean mass they can acquire and maintain.

I mention this because at some point a sticking point in growth progress will be reached and not overcome. This will be good news as the full potential will have been reached and the ceiling has been hit; now one would simply want to stay there.

Understanding this, along the way to reaching this great goal that very few ever reach, we will hit plateaus that the body thinks is it s limit. A sticking point is where the body is saying this is enough please stop now. But we in our mind say no we want more, so we push our body to take on more size.

Now the true pure bodybuilder says everything is fair game to achieve more growth and full potential in the fastest time possible. Yes trick plays are great also if they work, whatever works. EXCEPT anabolic steriods, were talking natural here.

This is HOW HIT was born.

Now how can a serious, motivated, healthy, HIT trainee move past sticking points? There are many methods. I will use myself for example, I have been training HIT for a few years now and usually take 3 -4 full days rest away from weight training between workouts, but still perform cardio. I believe I have average recovery ability and when I start to see the weight increases slowing then stop, I know I am overloaded. So I will usually take a week off at that point. This has worked well for me up until now, after the week I get back on track.

Now let me say Im not gaining big weight increases every week this is very unrealistic and in-fact impossible. My point is I am seeing progress and not falling back. Mean time I look at the weigh scale if I gain 10-15 lbs of muscle in a year I am happy. My total goal was 40-50 lbs of new muscle over a few years 5-6, then I will re-evaluate. If I desire more and feel I can, I will try. So far Im on track.

There are other techniques to spring the body in new growth and break sticking points. Changing of HIT routines, changing exercises, and free weights to machines, which can also be said of volume training but they work with HIT also.

Then there are the "trick plays" like negative sets, static holds, rest pause, etc.

Plateaus in HIT can be overcome and the full genetic potential reached. Many have done it (few when seen relative) to all trainees, I am currently well on my way.

Hope this answered your question, I know the answer might seem simple, but truly it is. HIT is a simple way to workout.

[Justin-27]

Did you go to school Justy? Every one with even half a clue knows that those traning volume greatly out-number those training HIT maybe 50,0000 to 1 or more, so of course from the much larger pool you will see more with results.

The point I was making in case you missed it as you do most things, is there are many who use HIT and get great results, that NEVER cycle volume or other training programs, and yet contuinue to progress for many years.
Everyone knows the problems of sticking points, plateaus, etc happen to all training systems, and need to be overcome.

I have seem MANY who have trained volume for many years and not seen progress or growth for many years. look around any gym and you will see many of these. They pump pump pump, and nothing new happenes. Why because they have not over stressed their body above that which was adapted to in the past.

Also an if we wanted to compare numbers between those not using steriods, the HITTers would win by comparision of percentages of all doing HIT and all doing volume. This is because of the nature of HIT being that of focusing on the higher weights, which as we know does put the body into new areas of adaptation.

With volume yes you can increase workload and this will act as a stressor and provide some further growth up to a point, but the tendency is to get bogged down in doing more volume which leads to overtraining due to incomplete recovery.

The HITTers will gain faster, and those wanting to put on a few pounds of muscle fast can do so. Hitters who want to keep growing will need to be of higher motivation going for the higher intensities which not all will want to do. This is true with volume also, not all have what it takes to build larger muscles and keep building over the long haul. The reasons being number 1-lack of desire and motivation, and then- poor genetics etc.

Lets assume in the comparison between HIT and volume that both groups have as their number 1 purpose, muscle growth.
Reason I bring this up is many are more concerned with endurance and training the body to do more work, and athlete training. This is not bodybuilding. True bodybuilding is about building muscle, and being lean with low body-fat levels, this is bodybuilding. And many posting here are not really into bodybuilding, but rather stength training, weight lifting, Football training, and other sports training etc.

These use resistance training for conditioning for their sports. Strange how many of these want to argue apples with oranges, and bodybuilding with what they are into.

Which I believe is why there are so many arguments on some of these threads.

Billy

Where do I begin?

1) Athletes don't want to build muscle and lose fat? Hmmm, so you have to have that catchy "bodybuilder" title to want big muscles and low fat? I didn't know that.

2) Strength training and building muscle are not mutually exclusive. A stronger muscle is a larger one.

3) "The HITTers will gain faster" As proven by all the HIT trainees I've met that are jacked and lean over my 11 years right? Err wait, I haven't met one...because THEY DO NOT EXIST!

4)"With volume yes you can increase workload and this will act as a stressor and provide some further growth up to a point, but the tendency is to get bogged down in doing more volume which leads to overtraining due to incomplete recovery."
--I can't help that your examples are idiots that have 2 months lifting experience, only to implement the newest Muscle and Fitness routine from a top pro. Or, that they just know nothing of lifting, and do the same thing, week in and week out with no results.
--There isn't a person on the planet that a strength coach couldn't get to gain 10 lbs of muscle in 12 weeks training with volume methods. And not only would they gain that muscle, they would be conditioned like a HITer could only dream of.

5)I'm bored with destroying your lame ass argument, post again if you want me to rip you another new one. You are choosing the wrong crowd to spout that dogmatic horse**** to....we know our ****. I lived your flawed training for THREE YEARS! I know what it's about, I know all that you claim, and I fell victim to it. Good thing I snapped outta it, because I like my 32" waist, 220lb bw, and 18" arms I got from "flawed, non functioning, woe is me volume training."

[Billy-Boy]

The problem is, most bodybuilders (including me at one time) believe you HAVE to train for hypertrophy all the time, HAVE to blast only 1-2 bp's a day, HAVE to rest 7 days before training that bp again, etc, etc. It wasn't until I stopped feeling sorry for myself (wahh I'm a hardgainer mentality) and started training more often, hitting each bp more often, and focusing on the big movements over lame bodybuilding isolation....that I gained tons of muscle.!

7 days off between workouts was too much. I do not do this except when I feel overtraining coming on, or planned in to re-set. Usally every 2-3 months then its back to 3-4 days off between workout.

Mike Mentzer advocated the longer layoffs between workouts for those with very slow recovery or the very advanced HITter who is generating massive amounts of intensity, which can take many years to reach if its reached at all.

[Justin-27]

Hi,
well I do not believe we can do anything to keep from hitting plateaus. This is a part of bodybuilding, if you are progressing regardless of the system/style.

The issue is how do we break through the sticking point after reaching one.

Now before I give examples of HOW, lets look at what are we trying to accomplish in the first place? Is our goal to build as much muscle as possible and reach our full genetic potential in muscle mass while at the same time achieving the lowest possible fat levels?

If the answer here is yes, then we are bodybuilders with a goal, reaching our full genetic potential in muscle and leanness. I believe we will all agree that everyone has a genetic limit for how much lean mass they can acquire and maintain.

I mention this because at some point a sticking point in growth progress will be reached and not overcome. This will be good news as the full potential will have been reached and the ceiling has been hit; now one would simply want to stay there.

Understanding this, along the way to reaching this great goal that very few ever reach, we will hit plateaus that the body thinks is it s limit. A sticking point is where the body is saying this is enough please stop now. But we in our mind say no we want more, so we push our body to take on more size.

Now the true pure bodybuilder says everything is fair game to achieve more growth and full potential in the fastest time possible. Yes trick plays are great also if they work, whatever works. EXCEPT anabolic steriods, were talking natural here.

This is HOW HIT was born.

Now how can a serious, motivated, healthy, HIT trainee move past sticking points? There are many methods. I will use myself for example, I have been training HIT for a few years now and usually take 3 -4 full days rest away from weight training between workouts, but still perform cardio. I believe I have average recovery ability and when I start to see the weight increases slowing then stop, I know I am overloaded. So I will usually take a week off at that point. This has worked well for me up until now, after the week I get back on track.

Now let me say Im not gaining big weight increases every week this is very unrealistic and in-fact impossible. My point is I am seeing progress and not falling back. Mean time I look at the weigh scale if I gain 10-15 lbs of muscle in a year I am happy. My total goal was 40-50 lbs of new muscle over a few years 5-6, then I will re-evaluate. If I desire more and feel I can, I will try. So far Im on track.

There are other techniques to spring the body in new growth and break sticking points. Changing of HIT routines, changing exercises, and free weights to machines, which can also be said of volume training but they work with HIT also.

Then there are the "trick plays" like negative sets, static holds, rest pause, etc.

Plateaus in HIT can be overcome and the full genetic potential reached. Many have done it (few when seen relative) to all trainees, I am currently well on my way.

Hope this answered your question, I know the answer might seem simple, but truly it is. HIT is a simple way to workout.

Well on your way to your genetic potential? Prove it...I want to see progress pics pal. And I mean who the christ could possibly believe reaching someone's genetic potential in a short time like 2 years? Ever see a jacked 40 yr old trainee that is still making gains? Does that mean he started only 2 years ago? Oh, I know what you'll say "Had he started on HIT, he'd be 30 lbs heavier, and 2% bf by now!" Enough with it already, HIT sucks, it isn't even a theory, it's just some clowns spouting propaganda down the throats of frustrated trainees (not frustrated because volume training doesnt work, frustrated because they are clueless and have no idea how to change up, or even design a functional program).

[Justin-27]

7 days off between workouts was too much. I do not do this except when I feel overtraining coming on, or planned in to re-set. Usally every 2-3 months then its back to 3-4 days off between workout.

Mike Mentzer advocated the longer layoffs between workouts for those with very slow recovery or the very advanced HITter who is generating massive amounts of intensity, which can take many years to reach if its reached at all.

Too much for who? Clarence bass trained like Mentzer said, each bp twice a month on a 2 day split, working out one time per week with weights.

And my example you quoted was hitting each bp once a week, not only training once a week. I was mocking the 5 day splits.....in a sense that they do work, just not as well as training more often, less isolation exercises, and more cycling of intensities.

[Billy-Boy]

Too much for who? Clarence bass trained like Mentzer said, each bp twice a month on a 2 day split, working out one time per week with weights.

And my example you quoted was hitting each bp once a week, not only training once a week. I was mocking the 5 day splits.....in a sense that they do work, just not as well as training more often, less isolation exercises, and more cycling of intensities.

This is my last post you because you cannot read.
First I did not say reach potential in 2 years, I hope to in 5-6 years and even then will evaluate.
Second you said you were taking 7 days off between workouts when doing HIT, I said thats too many days off! days off, days............Hello?

last post to you
Bye and grow up.

[N@tural1]

Billy-Boy

Why would anybody limit themselves to one style of training?

Ok, you can alter rest periods, exercises but why be so set in your ways as to not go through phases of higher volume training?

Why limit yourself to one set to failure training permantly?

i fail to see the logic

[Billy-Boy]

Billy-Boy

Why would anybody limit themselves to one style of training?

Ok, you can alter rest periods, exercises but why be so set in your ways as to not go through phases of higher volume training?

Why limit yourself to one set to failure training permantly?

i fail to see the logic

britlifter, I read another thread that you started with your appeal to build a bridge between HITters and volume weight trainers. I agree with you fully and appreciate what you wrote; in fact that post you made in your thread, caused me to register here.

I am going to assume you were sincere with what you said and because of this I am going to make you a proposal that will tell you once and for all and answer all your questions and doubts about HIT training forever hopefully.

I propose to you that you try HIT and run a thread documenting your experience here on bb.com. I believe you will post the actual results honestly. With this proposal to be fair to the HIT method I am asking that you perform the workout I am currently using which if you agree I will email to you. During the time you are doing HIT I would like to advise you by email and I expect 100% effort and to take my advice as your personal trainer, I will charge you nothing.

If you will agree, I PROMISE and Guarantee you will see new progress in strength and muscle mass above that which you now have within 6 weeks, you will notice sizable strength gains after only 2 weeks or sooner with the muscle gains noticeable within 6 weeks possibly sooner. I also PROMISE you that you will not hit a plateau that we can not break through within 6 weeks, and in fact you would find the gains would continue for the next 3-5 years without a lot of changes needed to be made following my program.

So why not try you have nothing to lose and everything to gain (muscle and strength) that is. For the sake of argument, if HIT does not produce the results I have claimed you can simply go back to what you were doing with a new experience and knowledge under you belt.

So what do you say britlifter,

Billy

[Billy-Boy]

Billy-Boy

Why would anybody limit themselves to one style of training?

Ok, you can alter rest periods, exercises but why be so set in your ways as to not go through phases of higher volume training?

Why limit yourself to one set to failure training permantly?

i fail to see the logic

You have made a good question here, while I cannot answer for all who do HIT, I personally have tried doing periods of higher volume, higher reps ranges, more training days etc. The result was in my view not worth the time and effort put in for the results. I found it was not necessary to reach my goals and therefore not worth it to me.

Now you have asked and I have told you honestly.

This is why I am asking you sincerly to try my proposal, maybe you then will be better able to see why I think the way I do.


Billy

[N@tural1]

If you mail me the routine I would certainly look it over.

Final 2 questions for you. And could you keep your answer short, just a yes or no would suffice:

1/ Do you belive that HIT (single set to failure) training is the best way to train for everybody?

2 Do you belive that we are all different and that what works for some, will not be optimal for others?

Thx

[Billy-Boy]

If you mail me the routine I would certainly look it over.

Final 2 questions for you. And could you keep your answer short, just a yes or no would suffice:

1/ Do you belive that HIT (single set to failure) training is the best way to train for everybody?

2 Do you belive that we are all different and that what works for some, will not be optimal for others?

Thx

Answer 1. I cannot answer for everyone and actually I do not know if it would be best for everyone, Many will not like performing HIT so in that sense I would say no.

Answer 2. I believe we are diffrent in many ways, and the same in many ways also. I believe HIT could build muscle in all healthy people, but again if the person did not like it then it would not be optimal for them, so in that sense yes I agree with you and no it would not be optimal for everyone.

Ok I can send you the workout but the only way you can know if it will do what I say is to do it.
Billy

[Justin-27]

This is my last post you because you cannot read.
First I did not say reach potential in 2 years, I hope to in 5-6 years and even then will evaluate.
Second you said you were taking 7 days off between workouts when doing HIT, I said thats too many days off! days off, days............Hello?

last post to you
Bye and grow up.

You are right, I was paraphrasing what Mentzer used to say about getting to the genetic potential in as short as 2-3 years, I don't even think 5-6 is possible, but much closer.

And you are also correct in stating that there are many different forms of HIT, from a Yates style of 4x a week on a hit each bp once a week, to a 3x a week/each bp once a week, to the super abbreviated ones where you might not hit each bodypart for longer than a week...ala cooko Mentzer.

Anyways, this weight training lifestyle isn't about a 6 week progress, it's about continued progress. That's great that you can get one of us to grow for 6 weeks, I can get you to grow for 6 years.

And why the dodging of real questions? Quote my numbered post and answer the points. Otherwise I'll assume you lose and know volume is better.

[N@tural1]

Answer 1. I cannot answer for everyone and actually I do not know if it would be best for everyone, Many will not like performing HIT so in that sense I would say no.

Answer 2. I believe we are diffrent in many ways, and the same in many ways also. I believe HIT could build muscle in all healthy people, but again if the person did not like it then it would not be optimal for them, so in that sense yes I agree with you and no it would not be optimal for everyone.

Ok I can send you the workout but the only way you can know if it will do what I say is to do it.
Billy

I will check out the routine.

So are you saying that the only reason that HIT may not work for some people is because they might not like it? aka their mind?

What about many biological differences?

Insulin output
insulin sensitivity
Thyroid output
Thyroid sensitivity
Testosterone production
Testosterone/hormone sensitivity
Testosterone to estrogen conversion
SHGB sensitivity
Testosterone to DHT conversion
Estrogen sensitivity
Growth Hormone output
Growth Hormone sensitivity
IGF output
IGF sensitivity
Digestive capability
Basic protein synthesis ability
Muscle fiber composition

Would these not have a factor on which program to use also?

[Justin-27]

I've read every one of the below articles. You should too. I wouldn't call anyone well rounded until they read, learn, and implement some of Poliquin's principles. His training is actually based on RESEARCH, athletic training, bodybuilding training, his personal successes on his own routines, and most of all COMMON SENSE!

http://www.t-nation.com/ALSAuthor.do...iquin&pageNo=1 (<----100 Poliquin articles, learn boy, LEARN!)

If HIT were so fantastic:
1) Gymnasts would use it
2) Pro Bodybuilders would use it (more than 3)
3) Powerlifters would use it
4) Strongmen would use it (can you imagine doing one maximal log lift, twice a month? LMAO! hahahahaha)
5) ANYONE that wants to get neural adaptations, and the bodies ability to get better at a movement will train that movement all the time.

^And don't pull out the "HIT is for building the most muscle" BS, you ever see the people I mention above? They have PLENTY of muscle, I assure you of that.

I ask how you view the Marines pull up program that takes novices that can only do 5 pull ups to doing 20+ dead hang, wide grip, pronated grip pull ups in 6 months. Want to know how they do that? TRAIN THEM EVERY DAY! OH NOES O-V-E-R-T-R-A-I-N-I-N-G!!!!

Look, we cannot help you have the testosterone of a 32 year old, lactating pregnant woman, but don't force your poor training on us that actually want to progress in this game.

Justin.....destroying HIT jedis, one post at a time.

N-e-x-t./

[Justin-27]

I will check out the routine.

So are you saying that the only reason that HIT may not work for some people is because they might not like it? aka their mind?

What about many biological differences?

Insulin output
insulin sensitivity
Thyroid output
Thyroid sensitivity
Testosterone production
Testosterone/hormone sensitivity
Testosterone to estrogen conversion
SHGB sensitivity
Testosterone to DHT conversion
Estrogen sensitivity
Growth Hormone output
Growth Hormone sensitivity
IGF output
IGF sensitivity
Digestive capability
Basic protein synthesis ability
Muscle fiber composition

Would these not have a factor on which program to use also?

Biological differences? Shoot, HITers only address one fact, and one fact alone.

It revolves around 90%+ of gym goers not having a clue what they're doing, like I said above, they either think they do, and follow an advanced split before building a base, or they do the same damn workout every time they go to the gym! A HITer sees that and states "volume training doesn't work!" So in comes a clown in the 70s that decides, "hmm barbells and dumbbells don't build enough muscle....so I'm going to design machines, machines that will target the muscles better. Machines that will cost a bunch of money, appeal to a new "type" of gym goer, machines that will make working out fun.....machines that will make me rich!" And what better to go with some fancy new machines? A fancy, catchy new program!!!!!!! "One only need to train 3x a week, for 20-30 min, one set each exercise." From this full body, light HIT program, came the bastard child routines we see today. Thus 2+2=4, and Jones+Nautilus=pussy developed HIT lifters.

Man, oh man I love beating up HIT! Great way to start the day.