Casein - Promotes all stages of the cancer process.

[Nilin]

I Have been reading the book "The China Study" which is considered the most comprehensive study of nutrition ever conducted.

Anyways one of the biggest points in the book is how Casein promotes cancer. Casein makes up 87% percent of cow milk protien.

Casein is the predominant phosphoprotein found in fresh milk and we are chuging this back in concentrated form like there is no tommrow??

"
The Cancer Casein Connection

In fact, the connection between casein and cancer was so profound that the scientists could literally turn cancer growth on and off in the laboratory animals, like a light switch, simply by altering the level of casein protein in their diets. Interestingly, they also found that feeding the animals the same levels of plant based protein (gluten and soy) did not at all promote cancer growth.
"

Im just fresh onto this topic and I will contrubte as I find out more, If any one else has anything to add please do, It is defently something we should be concerned about..

Milk and dairy in general are carcinogenic.

The British Medical Journal (BMJ) team followed 61,000 women for 20 years and 45,000 men for 11 years in Sweden, and showed that those who consumed dairy had higher, deadlier rates of cardiovascular disease, cancers and bone fractures (study published in October 2014). Women consuming more than 3 glasses of milk a day had almost twice the mortality over 20 years compared to those women consuming less than one glass a day. Furthermore, countries that consume dairy most are the countries with the highest rates of osteoporosis.

Facts about dairy (milk, cheese & yogurt):
- Milk is contaminated with cow’s blood, pus, pesticides, and hormones
- Dairy is linked with constipation, obesity, heart disease and cancer
- Higher dairy intake is linked to increased risk of prostate cancer and ovarian cancer. Yogurt especially, increases the risk of ovarian cancer.
- Children who consume high levels of dairy products have close to 3 times the risk of developing colorectal cancer in adulthood
- Dairy also contributes to many other health problems, from acne, asthma and allergies to Crohn's disease, ear infections and diabetes
- Dairy protein has been shown to promote increased cholesterol levels and atherosclerosis
- Populations that consume more dairy have higher rates of multiple sclerosis
- Dairy protein has been shown to increase IGF-1 (Insulin-like Growth Factor-1) levels. Cancer studies show that when IGF-1 rises in the body, one gets cancer
- D-galactose has been found to be pro-inflammatory
- Dairy consumption has been linked to attention deficit disorder (ADD) and autism
- Cow’s milk can cause anemia in children

I can't post the links of the resources here but I can send you an email if you like.

[thackes1]

Milk and dairy in general are carcinogenic.

The British Medical Journal (BMJ) team followed 61,000 women for 20 years and 45,000 men for 11 years in Sweden, and showed that those who consumed dairy had higher, deadlier rates of cardiovascular disease, cancers and bone fractures (study published in October 2014). Women consuming more than 3 glasses of milk a day had almost twice the mortality over 20 years compared to those women consuming less than one glass a day. Furthermore, countries that consume dairy most are the countries with the highest rates of osteoporosis.

Facts about dairy (milk, cheese & yogurt):
- Milk is contaminated with cow’s blood, pus, pesticides, and hormones
- Dairy is linked with constipation, obesity, heart disease and cancer
- Higher dairy intake is linked to increased risk of prostate cancer and ovarian cancer. Yogurt especially, increases the risk of ovarian cancer.
- Children who consume high levels of dairy products have close to 3 times the risk of developing colorectal cancer in adulthood
- Dairy also contributes to many other health problems, from acne, asthma and allergies to Crohn's disease, ear infections and diabetes
- Dairy protein has been shown to promote increased cholesterol levels and atherosclerosis
- Populations that consume more dairy have higher rates of multiple sclerosis
- Dairy protein has been shown to increase IGF-1 (Insulin-like Growth Factor-1) levels. Cancer studies show that when IGF-1 rises in the body, one gets cancer
- D-galactose has been found to be pro-inflammatory
- Dairy consumption has been linked to attention deficit disorder (ADD) and autism
- Cow’s milk can cause anemia in children

I can't post the links of the resources here but I can send you an email if you like.

Let's slow down on the fear mongering that is based on little to no scientific evidence. Milk is nutritious and not especially carcinogenic. It is reasonable to have it be a significant part or your diet or supplement with casein. It will likely cause you greater morbidity, especially if you're a woman, to avoid milk like the plague (ie. osteoporosis is fairly common among post-menopausal women).

The recent study below illustrates that only prostate cancer is epidemiologically associated with prostate cancer, which is essentially an inevitable disease for men, provided they live long enough. There is no molecular evidence to connect casein and carcinogenesis. In fact, it has been shown to protect against colon cancer in a 1,2-dimethylhydrazine-induced colon cancer mouse model.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4166373/

[peter52x52]

time to dump out the casein lmaoo

[TGT2]

Pretty sure casein is safe and doesn't increase cancer risk.

[tiggis2006]

I Have been reading the book "The China Study" which is considered the most comprehensive study of nutrition ever conducted.

Anyways one of the biggest points in the book is how Casein promotes cancer. Casein makes up 87% percent of cow milk protien.

Casein is the predominant phosphoprotein found in fresh milk and we are chuging this back in concentrated form like there is no tommrow??

"
The Cancer Casein Connection

In fact, the connection between casein and cancer was so profound that the scientists could literally turn cancer growth on and off in the laboratory animals, like a light switch, simply by altering the level of casein protein in their diets. Interestingly, they also found that feeding the animals the same levels of plant based protein (gluten and soy) did not at all promote cancer growth.
"

Im just fresh onto this topic and I will contrubte as I find out more, If any one else has anything to add please do, It is defently something we should be concerned about..

There was a similar claim about flaxseed about 10 years ago in regards to men and prostate cancer. Not that it gave you prostate cancer, but if you were predisposed to it, it encouraged the condition. Someone else may remember.

[Danielfp]

I suggest you put the book down or continue reading without giving it much credibility. The China study is hugely flawed and as many others have pointed out, its a sort of vegetarian/vegan propaganda.

[Suraknar]

"Milk is for babies, men drink beer" - Arnold Schwarzenegger

Now I read a couple of pages of this discussion, and would just like to say that I can corroborate the information. I was watching a Video Documentary on Cancer a couple of years ago, (lost my mother to Cancer in 2007) and the very same statements were made by Doctors in the Documentary and their findings on their experiments and studies. 5% Casein actually protected the Rats or did not harm them and above that they all got cancer.

That video had stuck to me and so I never bought Casein Protein supplements and voided any product that contains it since.

I shall continue reading to the end.

Cheers!

[thackes1]

"Milk is for babies, men drink beer" - Arnold Schwarzenegger

Now I read a couple of pages of this discussion, and would just like to say that I can corroborate the information. I was watching a Video Documentary on Cancer a couple of years ago, (lost my mother to Cancer in 2007) and the very same statements were made by Doctors in the Documentary and their findings on their experiments and studies. 5% Casein actually protected the Rats or did not harm them and above that they all got cancer.

That video had stuck to me and so I never bought Casein Protein supplements and voided any product that contains it since.

I shall continue reading to the end.

Cheers!

Casein is the predominant protein in milk. Milk drinking occurs in so many human populations, and there is no evidence to suggest a link between cancer and drinking milk. Casein is abundantly safe. I have never even heard of an ingested protein being a carcinogen. This thread is rife with misinformation.

[Suraknar]

Casein is the predominant protein in milk. Milk drinking occurs in so many human populations, and there is no evidence to suggest a link between cancer and drinking milk. Casein is abundantly safe. I have never even heard of an ingested protein being a carcinogen. This thread is rife with misinformation.

Hello, then this may interest you :

nutritionstudies.org/provocations-dairy-protein-causes-cancer

comments section is interesting too

[Suraknar]

I searched in Google for "Casein and Cancer",

There is many results, one of them here..had these two interesting paragraphs:

nakedfoodmagazine.com/casein-and-cancer

1. “Casein, which makes up 87% of cow’s milk protein, promoted all stages of the cancer process,” says Dr. T. Colin Campbell, author of the well-regarded book, The China Study.

6. Some nutritionists confirm the doctors’ findings. One of them, Phil Richards, writes that “the connection between casein and cancer was so profound in rat experiments that the scientists could literally turn cancer growth on and off in the laboratory animals, like a light switch, simply by altering the level of casein protein in their diets.” Specifically, “consuming dairy products is linked to an increased risk for breast cancer as dairy products are high in fat, animal protein, and hormones, each of which increases cancer risk. Since the 1980’s, study after study has linked dairy consumption to a high incidence of breast and other cancers.”

So yeah, it seems like some proteins can cause cancer.

Proteins are responsible of Allergies. Gluten is a protein too.

Just because something is called "Protein" it does not mean that it is good, even if in the Bodybuilding Circles we all belong to we are of course all pro-protein. Yet I think it is good to discuss and research these things ourselves.

Cheers!

[thackes1]

Hello, then this may interest you :

nutritionstudies.org/provocations-dairy-protein-causes-cancer

comments section is interesting too

I'm sorry, but if you are doing your scientific research on a .org website, you need to get yourself an education. Absorbing misinformation parroted by laypersons with no understanding of the scientific method nor any knowledge base in biological, physiology, and medicine is irresponsible.

I have surveyed scientific literature on this topic, and it is clear that there is no credible epidemiological evidence linking casein use with cancer incidence. In fact, there have been numerous health benefits associated with milk (casein) use.

The sites you read have agenda, it would be wise of you to make yourself aware of them (of course, you are likely one with the agenda as well).

[thackes1]

I searched in Google for "Casein and Cancer",

There is many results, one of them here..had these two interesting paragraphs:

nakedfoodmagazine.com/casein-and-cancer

1. “Casein, which makes up 87% of cow’s milk protein, promoted all stages of the cancer process,” says Dr. T. Colin Campbell, author of the well-regarded book, The China Study.

6. Some nutritionists confirm the doctors’ findings. One of them, Phil Richards, writes that “the connection between casein and cancer was so profound in rat experiments that the scientists could literally turn cancer growth on and off in the laboratory animals, like a light switch, simply by altering the level of casein protein in their diets.” Specifically, “consuming dairy products is linked to an increased risk for breast cancer as dairy products are high in fat, animal protein, and hormones, each of which increases cancer risk. Since the 1980’s, study after study has linked dairy consumption to a high incidence of breast and other cancers.”

So yeah, it seems like some proteins can cause cancer.

Proteins are responsible of Allergies. Gluten is a protein too.

Just because something is called "Protein" it does not mean that it is good, even if in the Bodybuilding Circles we all belong to we are of course all pro-protein. Yet I think it is good to discuss and research these things ourselves.

Cheers!

You are not discussing research. You're parroting misinformation because you have an agenda. You failed to cite a single scientific study... A random website has zero credibility. Also, the scientific research that you would need to cite would have to concern human use of milk and casein associating strongly with cancer incidence. Even if you do that (which you won't because it doesn't exist), you still haven't demonstrated a causal connection between milk (casein) use and cancer - this would require well controlled in vivo research demonstrating that casein contributes to carcinogenesis.

It is clear you don't understand cancer as a disease. Casein cannot be carcinogenic in the pure sense of the word because it has no capacity to disrupt the genome (can casein as a metabolic fuel help cancer cells that already exist grow... yes... but so can any metabolic fuel). Please stop spreading information, when you have no scientific education. It is irresponsible.

[JohnF30]

You were not reading the China study. You were reading "The China Study", which is an entertainment book that only shares its title with the actual study. Most sources of that book are Vegan websites. I **** you not.

[thackes1]

You were not reading the China study. You were reading "The China Study", which is an entertainment book that only shares its title with the actual study. Most sources of that book are Vegan websites. I **** you not.

Yes, clearly these are folks with an agenda and are not pursuing scientific facts.

[Suraknar]

You are not discussing research. You're parroting misinformation because you have an agenda. You failed to cite a single scientific study... A random website has zero credibility. Also, the scientific research that you would need to cite would have to concern human use of milk and casein associating strongly with cancer incidence. Even if you do that (which you won't because it doesn't exist), you still haven't demonstrated a causal connection between milk (casein) use and cancer - this would require well controlled in vivo research demonstrating that casein contributes to carcinogenesis.

It is clear you don't understand cancer as a disease. Casein cannot be carcinogenic in the pure sense of the word because it has no capacity to disrupt the genome (can casein as a metabolic fuel help cancer cells that already exist grow... yes... but so can any metabolic fuel). Please stop spreading information, when you have no scientific education. It is irresponsible.

Well I am sorry, I did not know that this was a Forum for Scientists only.

So what you want to discredit the idea by discrediting the messenger? And then you say that I have an Agenda?

I am simply someone who shares the fitness goals of everyone here, a citizen a consumer, and I am sharing what I have read and seen. And also I am partaking in the discussion because as a consumer I am very very concerned about what I consume.

I do not tseel the stuff either, so I have no vested interest, financial interest in any of this, which I understand many companies and their representatives, which I am sura also lurk these forums, have. They would be affraid of a panic amongst the consumers of their product because they have a vested financial interest to defend.

Personally I really do not care about anyone's profit, all I care about is my health. If you think that is an "agenda", then so be it, I will proudly say that my Agenda is my Health. Any objections to that?

My profession is in Computers, my father was a Doctor, Professor of Pathology and General Surgeon and while I do not have the training in Medicine, Biology or Physiology, he did introduce me to many notions and concepts.

The only reason I cannot properly share links from here is because it takes 50 posts before I can share links on this forum.

Last I checked this is a place for Discussion. We are not Conducting Research nor is this a Research Log. It is a discussion for any interested party and I think, the people who should be more interested about it is the ones consuming the product.

So please stop trying to shoot people down in a condescending fashion.

I appreciate your info, but the fact that you have never heard of any harms Casein can cause is not reason for me to close the case.

Cheers!

[thackes1]

Well I am sorry, I did not know that this was a Forum for Scientists only.

So what you want to discredit the idea by discrediting the messenger? And then you say that I have an Agenda?

I am simply someone who shares the fitness goals of everyone here, a citizen a consumer, and I am sharing what I have read and seen. And also I am partaking in the discussion because as a consumer I am very very concerned about what I consume.

I do not tseel the stuff either, so I have no vested interest, financial interest in any of this, which I understand many companies and their representatives, which I am sura also lurk these forums, have. They would be affraid of a panic amongst the consumers of their product because they have a vested financial interest to defend.

Personally I really do not care about anyone's profit, all I care about is my health. If you think that is an "agenda", then so be it, I will proudly say that my Agenda is my Health. Any objections to that?

My profession is in Computers, my father was a Doctor, Professor of Pathology and General Surgeon and while I do not have the training in Medicine, Biology or Physiology, he did introduce me to many notions and concepts.

The only reason I cannot properly share links from here is because it takes 50 posts before I can share links on this forum.

Last I checked this is a place for Discussion. We are not Conducting Research nor is this a Research Log. It is a discussion for any interested party and I think, the people who should be more interested about it is the ones consuming the product.

So please stop trying to shoot people down in a condescending fashion.

I appreciate your info, but the fact that you have never heard of any harms Casein can cause is not reason for me to close the case.

Cheers!

My previous posts still stand and you have left them unaddressed. So is it a failure to understand the science or a refusal to face ideas that upset you and your worldview?

I have provided cited research as well. There is NO EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE connecting casein use and cancer. The references you (and others in this thread) have used are not credible nor are they connected to actual research data, which makes them invalid. There are also ignorant interpretation of in vitro research on casein (this will take explaining, if you don't understand the science).We can only deal in scientific evidence, and you have not provided any at all.

On casein, this doesn't have to do with my personal experience, and I have no connection to any supplement company. I also haven't attacked you or acted condescendingly. I pointed out that it is likely you and others in this post have ulterior motives or have been manipulated and duped by those with ulterior motives (ie politically or religiously motivated vegetarianism/veganism).

My point is that every last bit of scientific evidence indicates casein is safe and actually healthy for the body (see bio-active peptides from casein). We can walk through the details of the scientific evidence if you like, but honestly whether casein is or isn't in your diet is not going to radically change your health.

[Suraknar]

My previous posts still stand and you have left them unaddressed. So is it a failure to understand the science or a refusal to face ideas that upset you and your worldview?

I have provided cited research as well. There is NO EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE connecting casein use and cancer. The references you (and others in this thread) have used are not credible nor are they connected to actual research data, which makes them invalid. There are also ignorant interpretation of in vitro research on casein (this will take explaining, if you don't understand the science).We can only deal in scientific evidence, and you have not provided any at all.

On casein, this doesn't have to do with my personal experience, and I have no connection to any supplement company. I also haven't attacked you or acted condescendingly. I pointed out that it is likely you and others in this post have ulterior motives or have been manipulated and duped by those with ulterior motives (ie politically or religiously motivated vegetarianism/veganism).

My point is that every last bit of scientific evidence indicates casein is safe and actually healthy for the body (see bio-active peptides from casein). We can walk through the details of the scientific evidence if you like, but honestly whether casein is or isn't in your diet is not going to radically change your health.

First of all, lets make something clear, I am not Vegan, I do not represent anyone and as stated above my only concern is my Health. I chimed in because I have been exposed to the same information the OP shares via a Documentary on Cancer (it was not a documentary on vegetarianism).


You are right I have not provided any Empirical Evidence myself. I have not performed any studies myself or Lab work. I do not pretend being an authority on the subject either.

Nevertheless, this does not disqualify me from posting here. Right? Even if it is opinion, I am sharing what I have witnessed and seeking further understanding.


Now, we cannot deny that there are those who maintain what has been said here by the OP, in this China Study too, it sounded very familiar with what I was exposed to in, as I mentioned before, a documentary on cancer. Maybe this documentaries comments or commentators were actually influenced from the China Study.

I read what you say and understand where you come from.

I found an interesting passage in Wikipedia article on Casein (yes I know Wiki is not authoritative)

"The China Study is a book written about a large-scale study done with the support of the Chinese government and provincial governments across China. It concluded that populations with greater than 10% of the protein in their diet from casein were at risk of cancer due to casein acting as a cancer promoter. Neal D. Barnard focuses on the putative addictive nature of milk products and opiate products associated with A1 milk in particular, and notes that "The problem with milk is not simply its casein—that's the part that produces the casomorphin opiates. The nutrient 'package' in milk—loads of sugar (lactose), animal protein, and fat—triggers the production of IGF-I in the body, and that may be the reason it is linked to certain forms of cancer."

The topic is controversial, albeit I am inclined to go with the latter conclusion.

Nevertheless, as a precaution, I also choose to not supplement with Casein, I do Eat dairy Cheeses and Milk so I get Casein naturally form these sources no need to add. So I prefer other sources of protein form my shakes. looking in to Beef Isolate lately.

Cheers!

[thackes1]

First of all, lets make something clear, I am not Vegan, I do not represent anyone and as stated above my only concern is my Health. I chimed in because I have been exposed to the same information the OP shares via a Documentary on Cancer (it was not a documentary on vegetarianism).


You are right I have not provided any Empirical Evidence myself. I have not performed any studies myself or Lab work. I do not pretend being an authority on the subject either.

Nevertheless, this does not disqualify me from posting here. Right? Even if it is opinion, I am sharing what I have witnessed and seeking further understanding.


Now, we cannot deny that there are those who maintain what has been said here by the OP, in this China Study too, it sounded very familiar with what I was exposed to in, as I mentioned before, a documentary on cancer. Maybe this documentaries comments or commentators were actually influenced from the China Study.

I read what you say and understand where you come from.

I found an interesting passage in Wikipedia article on Casein (yes I know Wiki is not authoritative)

"The China Study is a book written about a large-scale study done with the support of the Chinese government and provincial governments across China. It concluded that populations with greater than 10% of the protein in their diet from casein were at risk of cancer due to casein acting as a cancer promoter. Neal D. Barnard focuses on the putative addictive nature of milk products and opiate products associated with A1 milk in particular, and notes that "The problem with milk is not simply its casein—that's the part that produces the casomorphin opiates. The nutrient 'package' in milk—loads of sugar (lactose), animal protein, and fat—triggers the production of IGF-I in the body, and that may be the reason it is linked to certain forms of cancer."

The topic is controversial, albeit I am inclined to go with the latter conclusion.

Nevertheless, as a precaution, I also choose to not supplement with Casein, I do Eat dairy Cheeses and Milk so I get Casein naturally form these sources no need to add. So I prefer other sources of protein form my shakes. looking in to Beef Isolate lately.

Cheers!

Yes, you can post whatever you want, but when you parrot irresponsible misinformation you should expect to be called out. You're entitled to your opinion, but it has no factual basis so it would be better to keep to yourself and not promulgate publicly.

Please STOP citing "The China Study," it is a book (not a scientific study) that forwards fringe theories about animal protein and human health. It misuses, misinterprets, and cherry picks scientific data to support a foregone conclusion. The book is largely discredited by trusted authorities and available scientific data. Furthermore, the only thing that "The China Study" actually accurately shows is that protein can fuel cancer growth (just like fats and carbs can too - because they are metabolic fuel), which is a obvious, self-evident conclusion. It does not demonstrate that casein is genotoxic or carcinogenic.

One of the methods that a critical thinker (not just scientists) use to get to the truth of a matter is to consult multiple sources. You have failed to grasp this concept. Secondly, a critical thinker should critically evaluate sources for their credibility, bias, and the quality of their content. You have failed to do this with "The China Study." Finally, a critical thinker uses a rational process to integrate evidence in order to draw a conclusion. You have failed to do this because you aren't actually examining evidence but rather citing random statements that connect casein use to cancer from a discredited source. Your whole argument is that you trust the people saying that casein is carcinogenic, but why should we consider these people are trustworthy and are they are making these conclusions on the basis of scientific evidence? I can tell you the answer is NO! I have looked at the science and done the work for you.

You are making HUGE, dangerous assumptions. Be a critical thinker.

P.S. Again, I don't care if you choose to not use casein that is your prerogative. Just don't go to a public forum and promulgate misinformation for others to read and not expect push back.

[nmdcunha]

Denise Minger, Chris Masterjohn and Chris Kresser have some required reading on "The China Study" book. I'd post the links but I don't have enough posts.

It is pretty well known that the authors crusade mostly began after studies in mice did indeed find that high casein protein caused more cancer when mice were exposed to massive doses of aflatoxin. What they don't tell you in the book is that the low protein arm of mice died earlier and the casein kept the high protein arm alive longer even with the cancer. The author then extrapolated that all animal protein causes cancer and the rest is history.

The same association exists in the actual data for sugar as does for protein but sugar didn't fit the author's beliefs.

[snarfbot]

china has alot of people so their government is working hard to convince them that soylent green is healthy and ****. the world needs slaves and they gotta eat, but gotta save the cheese for the aristocrats naw meen?

[Partyrocking]

Even my vegetarian friends know the China Study is a bunch of BS, then again, they aren't stupid so there is that.

[nmdcunha]

Even my vegetarian friends know the China Study is a bunch of BS, then again, they aren't stupid so there is that.

Plenty of people still push it in my experience. It's pretty much the main gateway to veganism/vegetarianism.

[Suraknar]

Yes, you can post whatever you want, but when you parrot irresponsible misinformation you should expect to be called out. You're entitled to your opinion, but it has no factual basis so it would be better to keep to yourself and not promulgate publicly.

Please STOP citing "The China Study," it is a book (not a scientific study) that forwards fringe theories about animal protein and human health. It misuses, misinterprets, and cherry picks scientific data to support a foregone conclusion. The book is largely discredited by trusted authorities and available scientific data. Furthermore, the only thing that "The China Study" actually accurately shows is that protein can fuel cancer growth (just like fats and carbs can too - because they are metabolic fuel), which is a obvious, self-evident conclusion. It does not demonstrate that casein is genotoxic or carcinogenic.

One of the methods that a critical thinker (not just scientists) use to get to the truth of a matter is to consult multiple sources. You have failed to grasp this concept. Secondly, a critical thinker should critically evaluate sources for their credibility, bias, and the quality of their content. You have failed to do this with "The China Study." Finally, a critical thinker uses a rational process to integrate evidence in order to draw a conclusion. You have failed to do this because you aren't actually examining evidence but rather citing random statements that connect casein use to cancer from a discredited source. Your whole argument is that you trust the people saying that casein is carcinogenic, but why should we consider these people are trustworthy and are they are making these conclusions on the basis of scientific evidence? I can tell you the answer is NO! I have looked at the science and done the work for you.

You are making HUGE, dangerous assumptions. Be a critical thinker.

P.S. Again, I don't care if you choose to not use casein that is your prerogative. Just don't go to a public forum and promulgate misinformation for others to read and not expect push back.

LOL. Well, thank the heavens, I am not dependent on what you think of me.

Suffice it to say I never came here saying that "I am a critical Thinker", you assumed that you are putting words to me. Which demonstrates that you really have an intent here.

I never even really made an argument. putting on links and citing what others have reported on this whether it was biassed erroneous or not, doe snot constitute an argument. So again, you assume and you create a situation that really I was not part of, for who knows why... you have a stake in all this.

Finally, you bet I can post what I like, I can also post my opinion, and I can also believe what I want and none of it is predicated upon your approval. If I want to cite teh Chiona Studdy I will cite it. this is what the OP is citing too, this is what this thread is about. Who are you to tell me otherwise?

And if I decide to avoid Cassein in my supplementation that is my right and no one else's business. And if I decide to share with the world this decision I have that right too and nothing you say has any impact.

You said your piece on the Casein and the China Study, we appreciate, but stop there, you have no right to criticize me judge me or characterise me and expect not to be called out for it. You think you are some kind of great argumentation? Yet your replies are full of fallacies, Ad hominem, staw man fallacy, burden of proof reversal.

So you can take your derogatory comments and you smug attitude and shove it up yours really deep and maybe it will create some sensation that you can actually feel, since you do not seem to feel anything else anyway, you are a perverse narcissist.

[thackes1]

LOL. Well, thank the heavens, I am not dependent on what you think of me.

Suffice it to say I never came here saying that "I am a critical Thinker", you assumed that you are putting words to me. Which demonstrates that you really have an intent here.

I never even really made an argument. putting on links and citing what others have reported on this whether it was biassed erroneous or not, doe snot constitute an argument. So again, you assume and you create a situation that really I was not part of, for who knows why... you have a stake in all this.

Finally, you bet I can post what I like, I can also post my opinion, and I can also believe what I want and none of it is predicated upon your approval. If I want to cite teh Chiona Studdy I will cite it. this is what the OP is citing too, this is what this thread is about. Who are you to tell me otherwise?

And if I decide to avoid Cassein in my supplementation that is my right and no one else's business. And if I decide to share with the world this decision I have that right too and nothing you say has any impact.

You said your piece on the Casein and the China Study, we appreciate, but stop there, you have no right to criticize me judge me or characterise me and expect not to be called out for it. You think you are some kind of great argumentation? Yet your replies are full of fallacies, Ad hominem, staw man fallacy, burden of proof reversal.

So you can take your derogatory comments and you smug attitude and shove it up yours really deep and maybe it will create some sensation that you can actually feel, since you do not seem to feel anything else anyway, you are a perverse narcissist.

Let's break your comment down because it is hilarious. If your reading comprehension was better you would have realized a response was unnecessary. My comments are in bold.

LOL. Well, thank the heavens, I am not dependent on what you think of me.

Suffice it to say I never came here saying that "I am a critical Thinker", you assumed that you are putting words to me. Which demonstrates that you really have an intent here.

Thank you for admitting you're not a critical thinker. Anyone making a claim, implicit or explicit, has to do some on the basis of reason (this requires critical thinking, fyi); otherwise that claim is categorically false. Not sure what you think my intent is, but I will tell you what it is: to correct the misinformation that you and others are promulgating

I never even really made an argument. putting on links and citing what others have reported on this whether it was biassed erroneous or not, doe snot constitute an argument. So again, you assume and you create a situation that really I was not part of, for who knows why... you have a stake in all this.

You actually have made an argument (aka a claim). It may have been more implicit than explicit (though I think you have made some explicit ones too), but you have continued to post in support of the ridiculous idea that casein use causes cancer without citing any credible evidence. My intent is to point out this is irresponsible and detail the faults in your reasoning. On a side note, please reread this passage, it is rife with grammatical mistakes and misspellings, making it wanting for coherency.

Finally, you bet I can post what I like, I can also post my opinion, and I can also believe what I want and none of it is predicated upon your approval. If I want to cite teh Chiona Studdy I will cite it. this is what the OP is citing too, this is what this thread is about. Who are you to tell me otherwise?

Again, you have failed to comprehend my comments. I said you can post whatever you like, but when it is replete with misinformation, you should expect push back. I delivered my response. You should be enough of an adult to handle it. It was pretty tame.

And if I decide to avoid Cassein in my supplementation that is my right and no one else's business. And if I decide to share with the world this decision I have that right too and nothing you say has any impact.

Again, If you understood my comments, this is exactly what I said. I don't care if you use casein or if you tell other people that you don't use casein. I will step in when you start promulgating misinformation about casein's health effects.

You said your piece on the Casein and the China Study, we appreciate, but stop there, you have no right to criticize me judge me or characterise me and expect not to be called out for it. You think you are some kind of great argumentation? Yet your replies are full of fallacies, Ad hominem, staw man fallacy, burden of proof reversal.

I criticized your critical thinking/reasoning, which is fair game in an argument; it is what you are supposed to do in the pursuit of truth. If my post is "full of fallacies, Ad hominem, straw [sic] man fallacy, burden of proof reversal," please points them out specifically. To my knowledge, I did not commit logical fallacies in my comments. In fact, you are the one personalizing the argument. You have actually called me a "perverse narcissist." This would be a textbook example of Ad hominem; ironically, something you accuse of doing.

So you can take your derogatory comments and you smug attitude and shove it up yours really deep and maybe it will create some sensation that you can actually feel, since you do not seem to feel anything else anyway, you are a perverse narcissist.

Please point out how my comment is derogatory? This is a news flash to me. I think you can handle having your reasoning questioned. However, your crude, incoherent response seems to indicate otherwise. Thank you for putting this immaturity on display for the audience. It will destroy any credibility your comments on casein and cancer have in the eyes of anyone reading this.

[AzWrestler157]

@Redbaron could you post a place where I could find this book online?

[streetdanceman]

I always take information like this with a grain of salt. Fascinating nonetheless... but it's just as bad as vegans claiming meat is bad for you lol with their own made up "sources" of information. The fact is we are complicated creatures and we all respond differently to different types of food. For me, I had huge problems with acne and even got on accutane with it because I couldn't figure out what it was at the time. I decided what the hell, I'll give up bread and realized I must have an intolerance to the stuff, because it stopped happening. Casein point (bad pun , I don't take powder protein because I'm lactose intolerant lol. I just eat the right amount of lean chicken, peanuts, tuna, etc.

[HairyPotatoes]

I like milk

[velphick]

There was a similar claim about flaxseed about 10 years ago in regards to men and prostate cancer. Not that it gave you prostate cancer, but if you were predisposed to it, it encouraged the condition. Someone else may remember.

That was eggs. And the link is still 100% valid for eggs.

[velphick]

I always take information like this with a grain of salt. Fascinating nonetheless... but it's just as bad as vegans claiming meat is bad for you lol with their own made up "sources" of information. The fact is we are complicated creatures and we all respond differently to different types of food. For me, I had huge problems with acne and even got on accutane with it because I couldn't figure out what it was at the time. I decided what the hell, I'll give up bread and realized I must have an intolerance to the stuff, because it stopped happening. Casein point (bad pun , I don't take powder protein because I'm lactose intolerant lol. I just eat the right amount of lean chicken, peanuts, tuna, etc.

The study wasn't done by a vegan or vegetarian. The whole point of the study (I haven't read it but I have come across studies that were contributed to it in my uni degree as I'm doing a bachelor of science now, 2nd year) is to why China and other Asian cultures have such a low rate of cancer compared to western cultures. For example breast cancer is around the 1:5 - 1:10 in western societies. (Depending on the country) Also the same with prostate cancer. Asian's for example breast cancer is about 1:10,000. (And that can come from being genetically at risk for it) Now there is a SLIGHT difference there, hence so many studies and books comparing the difference. The MAIN thing dietary wise (I have many Asian friends also, but lets keep this to quoting studies) is dairy.

Look up studies linking eggs to prostate cancer, 100% confirmed now. It is the Choline in the eggs. Alpha-GPC is the worst, followed by normal Choline. CDP-Choline was however safe.

Then studies linking dairy to breast cancer is huge. Remember dairy = blend of proteins. Whey (from all the studies I've read) seems to be anti cancer, but this wouldn't surprise me. Most studies done purely on dairy and cancer is blamed on the A1 protein also. Which is in most places. A1 protein is a mutation from the original A2 protein from cows going back a long time ago. Studies have been done purely on inflammation which A1 causes and A2 does not. Scientifically speaking however MOST articles do NOT specifically tell you (apart from the one I've just mentioned comparing the two) if A1 or A2 was used so further research is needed in regards to that, but we know in a pro-inflammatory environment, cancer does thrive more easily, but not everyone who has a lot of inflammation has cancer.

I just came across this thread and had to reply, as I can tell people do not understand the process at how casein can cause cancer or how it is digested, just explaining the function of digestion will not get that information explained, try a course in Chemistry and Biochemistry more so.

All the above information (as I don't know when or if I'll be back as I'm extremely busy with my degree) as mentioned I've come across studying and reading clinical trials so you would / should be able to find them as I did. I mostly use NCBI but sometimes they archive things and move them (or remove them) etc.

[thackes1]

The study wasn't done by a vegan or vegetarian. The whole point of the study (I haven't read it but I have come across studies that were contributed to it in my uni degree as I'm doing a bachelor of science now, 2nd year) is to why China and other Asian cultures have such a low rate of cancer compared to western cultures. For example breast cancer is around the 1:5 - 1:10 in western societies. (Depending on the country) Also the same with prostate cancer. Asian's for example breast cancer is about 1:10,000. (And that can come from being genetically at risk for it) Now there is a SLIGHT difference there, hence so many studies and books comparing the difference. The MAIN thing dietary wise (I have many Asian friends also, but lets keep this to quoting studies) is dairy.

Look up studies linking eggs to prostate cancer, 100% confirmed now. It is the Choline in the eggs. Alpha-GPC is the worst, followed by normal Choline. CDP-Choline was however safe.

Then studies linking dairy to breast cancer is huge. Remember dairy = blend of proteins. Whey (from all the studies I've read) seems to be anti cancer, but this wouldn't surprise me. Most studies done purely on dairy and cancer is blamed on the A1 protein also. Which is in most places. A1 protein is a mutation from the original A2 protein from cows going back a long time ago. Studies have been done purely on inflammation which A1 causes and A2 does not. Scientifically speaking however MOST articles do NOT specifically tell you (apart from the one I've just mentioned comparing the two) if A1 or A2 was used so further research is needed in regards to that, but we know in a pro-inflammatory environment, cancer does thrive more easily, but not everyone who has a lot of inflammation has cancer.

I just came across this thread and had to reply, as I can tell people do not understand the process at how casein can cause cancer or how it is digested, just explaining the function of digestion will not get that information explained, try a course in Chemistry and Biochemistry more so.

All the above information (as I don't know when or if I'll be back as I'm extremely busy with my degree) as mentioned I've come across studying and reading clinical trials so you would / should be able to find them as I did. I mostly use NCBI but sometimes they archive things and move them (or remove them) etc.

Dude, you are literally spewing falsehoods and misinformation.

There is no connection between dairy consumption and breast cancer risk (or any cancer risk for that matter).

See a real reference - http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3357167/ (since you supposedly read NCBI).

On choline and prostate cancer, you are also wrong. There is no connection between choline levels and prostate cancer incidence. The two prospective studies performed showed choline level significantly associated with "lethal prostate cancer." Again, there is no known mechanism for this association, and no causal connection has been established between choline and prostate cancer. Thus, a diet low in choline is good for people who already have prostate cancer, but this restriction is unnecessary for healthy individuals.

References
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22952174
http://www.medellaoptimalhealth.com/...ostate-cancer/

The difference in cancer incidence, which you have largely simplified, between the East and the West are ostensibly owed to numerous variables not a single dietary difference. Furthermore, dietary difference alone will not sufficiently explain the difference an incidence across different cancer types.