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  1. #1
    Registered User Redbaron's Avatar
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    Casein - Promotes all stages of the cancer process.

    I Have been reading the book "The China Study" which is considered the most comprehensive study of nutrition ever conducted.

    Anyways one of the biggest points in the book is how Casein promotes cancer. Casein makes up 87% percent of cow milk protien.

    Casein is the predominant phosphoprotein found in fresh milk and we are chuging this back in concentrated form like there is no tommrow??

    "
    The Cancer Casein Connection

    In fact, the connection between casein and cancer was so profound that the scientists could literally turn cancer growth on and off in the laboratory animals, like a light switch, simply by altering the level of casein protein in their diets. Interestingly, they also found that feeding the animals the same levels of plant based protein (gluten and soy) did not at all promote cancer growth.
    "

    Im just fresh onto this topic and I will contrubte as I find out more, If any one else has anything to add please do, It is defently something we should be concerned about..
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    Busy Dude Dr.Dave1's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Redbaron
    I Have been reading the book "The China Study" which is considered the most comprehensive study of nutrition ever conducted.

    Anyways one of the biggest points in the book is how Casein promotes cancer. Casein makes up 87% percent of cow milk protien.

    Casein is the predominant phosphoprotein found in fresh milk and we are chuging this back in concentrated form like there is no tommrow??

    "
    The Cancer Casein Connection

    In fact, the connection between casein and cancer was so profound that the scientists could literally turn cancer growth on and off in the laboratory animals, like a light switch, simply by altering the level of casein protein in their diets. Interestingly, they also found that feeding the animals the same levels of plant based protein (gluten and soy) did not at all promote cancer growth.
    "

    Im just fresh onto this topic and I will contrubte as I find out more, If any one else has anything to add please do, It is defently something we should be concerned about..
    Interesting . . .
    I am unfamiliar with the book so I have a few questions for you, if you don't mind. Do they cite actual research studies or is this their own work. How did they qualify promoting cancer? For example did the research animals already have cancer, have mutations predisposing them to cancer, or were they healthy animals. How did casein ingestion affect animal weight and or muscle mass in the animals aside from cancer?
    Disclaimer: While I have an M.D. the views I express are not to be taken as medical advice under any circumstances. Please check with your own doctor if you want medical advice as he/she has access to your info and can provide the most accurate advice.


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  3. #3
    Registered User LatissimusDorsi's Avatar
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    I think what they are trying to say is casein will promote (contribute to the process of) the growth of cancer in some thing that already *has* cancer, not 'casein gives u cancer'.
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    Busy Dude Dr.Dave1's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by LatissimusDorsi
    I think what they are trying to say is casein will promote (contribute to the process of) the growth of cancer in some thing that already *has* cancer, not 'casein gives u cancer'.
    That was my assumption, which is why I as asking for clarification. So that means . . . Casein is good for bulking. Sounds good to me. Just don't use it if you have cancer
    Disclaimer: While I have an M.D. the views I express are not to be taken as medical advice under any circumstances. Please check with your own doctor if you want medical advice as he/she has access to your info and can provide the most accurate advice.


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    can we get an exact paragraph from the text to answer the above question?
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    game over DRP7's Avatar
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    Cool

    well, that would mean that all mammals, including the homo sapiens, are growing up during the first years of their life on a food source that is a carcinogen per se?
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    Registered User donanderson's Avatar
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    Exclamation

    Well, to be honest that sounds like a load of BS.
    Cancer is "any of various malignant neoplasms characterized by the proliferation of anaplastic cells that tend to invade surrounding tissue and metastasize to new body sites". So basically in English that means uncontrolled cell replication that causes all other normal cell functions to cease and concentrate soley on growth.

    Cancer begins with a mutation of the base pair sequences (nucleotides) on your DNA. These can be point, deletion, or insertion mutations. These nucleotide sequenses make up your "genome" or genes that are expressed in your physical characteristics. When a carcinogen acts on your body, it mutates, or changes, your nucleotide sequence. If the nucleotide sequence that is change happens to be an oncogene sequence, then there is the possibility of uncontrolled cellular replication and the formation of a tumor (Large mass of cells). This genetic change is a permanant mutation that is expressed for the rest of the cells' life. As it replicates, it reproduces asexually (mitosis) and produces genetic clones of itself with the same abnormal genome. 1 makes 2, 2 make 4, so on and so on.

    The problem with the statement they are making is that casien can induce and inhibit cancer merely by being present in the cell. If this were true, that would mean the casien would have to genetically mutate the cell when it enters (and some how get just the right gene sequence (oncogene) as well as inhibit the tumor suppressor genes) and genetically mutate it back when it leaves. I find it really hard to believe that casien has these effects on cells. In fact, I dont believe it at all.

    The research is probably implying it has cancer-like growth when the cells come in contact with the casien. CASIEN DOES NOT CAUSE CANCER. Its ok to drink your milk.
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  8. #8
    game over DRP7's Avatar
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    Well, here is a review that states quite the opposite of what th OP has reported: protein fractions from milk apparently have beneficial / health promoting effects.

    Curr Pharm Des. 2003;9(16):1289-95. Related Articles, Links


    Biofunctional peptides from milk proteins: mineral binding and cytomodulatory effects.

    Meisel H, FitzGerald RJ.

    Federal Dairy Research Centre, Institute for Chemistry and Technology, Kiel, Germany. meisel@bafm.de

    The protein fraction of milk contains many valuable components and biologically active substances. Moreover, milk proteins are precursors of many different biologically active peptides which are inactive within the sequence of the precursor protein but can be released by enzymatic proteolysis. Many milk protein-derived peptides, such as caseinophosphopeptides, reveal multi-functional bioactivities. Caseinophosphopeptides can form soluble organophosphate salts and may function as carriers for different minerals, especially calcium. Furthermore, they have been shown to exert cytomodulatory effects. Cytomodulatory peptides inhibit cancer cell growth or they stimulate the activity of immunocompetent cells and neonatal intestinal cells, respectively. Several bioactive peptides derived from milk proteins are potential modulators of various regulatory processes in the body and thus may exert beneficial physiological effects.
    Caseinophosphopeptides are already produced on an industrial-scale and as a consequence these peptides have been considered for application as ingredients in both 'functional foods' and pharmaceutical preparations. Although the physiological significance as exogenous regulatory substances is not yet fully understood, both mineral binding and cytomodulatory peptides derived from bovine milk proteins are claimed to be health enhancing components that can be used to reduce the risk of disease or to enhance a certain physiological function.

    Publication Types:
    Review

    PMID: 12769737 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
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  9. #9
    Busy Dude Dr.Dave1's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by donanderson
    Well, to be honest that sounds like a load of BS.
    Cancer is "any of various malignant neoplasms characterized by the proliferation of anaplastic cells that tend to invade surrounding tissue and metastasize to new body sites". So basically in English that means uncontrolled cell replication that causes all other normal cell functions to cease and concentrate soley on growth.

    Cancer begins with a mutation of the base pair sequences (nucleotides) on your DNA. These can be point, deletion, or insertion mutations. These nucleotide sequenses make up your "genome" or genes that are expressed in your physical characteristics. When a carcinogen acts on your body, it mutates, or changes, your nucleotide sequence. If the nucleotide sequence that is change happens to be an oncogene sequence, then there is the possibility of uncontrolled cellular replication and the formation of a tumor (Large mass of cells). This genetic change is a permanant mutation that is expressed for the rest of the cells' life. As it replicates, it reproduces asexually (mitosis) and produces genetic clones of itself with the same abnormal genome. 1 makes 2, 2 make 4, so on and so on.

    The problem with the statement they are making is that casien can induce and inhibit cancer merely by being present in the cell. If this were true, that would mean the casien would have to genetically mutate the cell when it enters (and some how get just the right gene sequence (oncogene) as well as inhibit the tumor suppressor genes) and genetically mutate it back when it leaves. I find it really hard to believe that casien has these effects on cells. In fact, I dont believe it at all.

    The research is probably implying it has cancer-like growth when the cells come in contact with the casien. CASIEN DOES NOT CAUSE CANCER. Its ok to drink your milk.
    That is not entirely the case. Something does not have to cz a genetic mutations to be considered a carcinogen. There are two phases to carcinogenesis (1) initiation and (2) propogation.

    Initiation - damages a gene (as you stated)
    Propogation - enhances growth

    Additionally, a carcinogen can also effect proteins or trasncription factors that control or regulate cell growth. I have seen nothing to support caseins role in this.

    My assumption is that they are saying it is a propogator . . .

    EDIT: Just to clarify I don't think Casein is detrimental to one's health. However, it sounds like it may help your muscles grow like cancer
    Last edited by Dr.Dave1; 02-15-2006 at 06:41 PM.
    Disclaimer: While I have an M.D. the views I express are not to be taken as medical advice under any circumstances. Please check with your own doctor if you want medical advice as he/she has access to your info and can provide the most accurate advice.


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  10. #10
    Registered User donanderson's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Dr.Dave1
    That is not entirely the case. Something does not have to cz a genetic mutations to be considered a carcinogen. There are two phases to carcinogenesis (1) initiation and (2) propogation.

    Initiation - damages a gene (as you stated)
    Propogation - enhances growth

    Additionally, a carcinogen can also effect proteins or trasncription factors that control or regulate cell growth. I have seen nothing to support caseins role in this.

    My assumption is that they are saying it is a propogator . . .

    EDIT: Just to clarify I don't think Casein is detrimental to one's health.
    However, it sounds like it may help your muscles grow like cancer
    My mistake, I typed a quick "crash course" for viewers and left a great deal of information out (as you probably know).

    Where are you going to med-school/what year are you?
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    Registered User hotasice2003's Avatar
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    Man, that first post is BS. Casein absolutely rocks! I love it!
    Currently: Bulking
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    Busy Dude Dr.Dave1's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by donanderson
    My mistake, I typed a quick "crash course" for viewers and left a great deal of information out (as you probably know).

    Where are you going to med-school/what year are you?
    Sorry if I came across poorly in my repsonse, I thought you gave a nice synopsis. I was just trying to clarify what they might have been claiming

    I am a second year @ Indiana . . . and on that note I must profess my bitter hatred for the USMLE STEP 1 test I'll be taking in May
    Disclaimer: While I have an M.D. the views I express are not to be taken as medical advice under any circumstances. Please check with your own doctor if you want medical advice as he/she has access to your info and can provide the most accurate advice.


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    Busy Dude Dr.Dave1's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by hotasice2003
    Man, that first post is BS. Casein absolutely rocks! I love it!
    Agreed, I think they should use this for marketing . . . "Casein, it makes your muscles grow like cancer"
    Disclaimer: While I have an M.D. the views I express are not to be taken as medical advice under any circumstances. Please check with your own doctor if you want medical advice as he/she has access to your info and can provide the most accurate advice.


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    Originally Posted by Dr.Dave1
    Sorry if I came across poorly in my repsonse, I thought you gave a nice synopsis. I was just trying to clarify what they might have been claiming

    I am a second year @ Indiana . . . and on that note I must profess my bitter hatred for the USMLE STEP 1 test I'll be taking in May
    How do you like Indiana? Im going to be taking my MCAT in august and the only schools I'm really interested in are U of Arizona, and USC. Which schools did you apply to?
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    Originally Posted by donanderson
    How do you like Indiana? Im going to be taking my MCAT in august and the only schools I'm really interested in are U of Arizona, and USC. Which schools did you apply to?
    Short answer is I love it; I'm out of state so I would not have gone here if I did not have good reasons. However, I'm sure the weather at either of those schools beats the pants off of indiana weather . . . not that there is tons of time to enjoy it. I'll PM you the rest so as not to get this thread to far off topic
    Disclaimer: While I have an M.D. the views I express are not to be taken as medical advice under any circumstances. Please check with your own doctor if you want medical advice as he/she has access to your info and can provide the most accurate advice.


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    Originally Posted by Dr.Dave1
    Agreed, I think they should use this for marketing . . . "Casein, it makes your muscles grow like cancer"

    Haha, I'm liking that one alot. I'm sick of ppl saying that casein is only good for b4 bed. Everybody is all about whey these days because of how fast it digests. Well, I agree there, that you need whey/BCAA's DURING your WO, but casein should be dominant every other time of the day. It will keep you in a positive nitrogen balance LONG after the whey has been digested/absorbed.
    Currently: Bulking
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  17. #17
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    Sounds good to me, tumors = lean mass.
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    Wow I never would have expected such input! Anyways I will let you guys in on some more that I have read. Remember im not trying bash casein just trying to understand the science behind it. The fact that Americans have the highest cancer rate in the world shows were doing something wrong.

    This book really sheds some light on how misunderstood the American diet is. I have not read the whole thing so im in no position to give a full thesis of the content. But I can confirm that this book is in no way bias and looks to be whole hearted. I would suggest you guys pick up a copy.

    From what I have read they have done many study’s to back it up and even prove casein promotes cancer in rats. Here’s an expert from the book I will type out,

    "
    An impressively consistent pattern was beginning to emerge. For two different organs, four different carcinogens and two different species, casein promotes cancer growth while using a highly integrated system of mechanisms. It is a powerful, convincing and consistent effect. For example, casein affects the way cells interact with carcinogens, the way DNA reacts wit carcinogens and the way cancerous cells grow. The depth and consistency of these findings strongly suggest that they are relevant for humans, for four reasons. First, rats and humans have an almost identical need for protein. Second, protein operates in human virtually the same way it does in rats. Third, the level of protein intake causing tumour growth is the same level that humans consume. And fourth, in both rodents and humans the initiation stage is far less important then the promotion stage of cancer. This is because we are very likely "dosed" with a certain amount of carcinogens in our everyday lives, but whether they lead to full tumours depends on their promotion, or lack thereof.


    I will keep looking into it,
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    Originally Posted by Redbaron
    Wow I never would have expected such input! Anyways I will let you guys in on some more that I have read. Remember im not trying bash casein just trying to understand the science behind it. The fact that Americans have the highest cancer rate in the world shows were doing something wrong.

    This book really sheds some light on how misunderstood the American diet is. I have not read the whole thing so im in no position to give a full thesis of the content. But I can confirm that this book is in no way bias and looks to be whole hearted. I would suggest you guys pick up a copy.

    From what I have read they have done many study’s to back it up and even prove casein promotes cancer in rats. Here’s an expert from the book I will type out,

    "
    An impressively consistent pattern was beginning to emerge. For two different organs, four different carcinogens and two different species, casein promotes cancer growth while using a highly integrated system of mechanisms. It is a powerful, convincing and consistent effect. For example, casein affects the way cells interact with carcinogens, the way DNA reacts wit carcinogens and the way cancerous cells grow. The depth and consistency of these findings strongly suggest that they are relevant for humans, for four reasons. First, rats and humans have an almost identical need for protein. Second, protein operates in human virtually the same way it does in rats. Third, the level of protein intake causing tumour growth is the same level that humans consume. And fourth, in both rodents and humans the initiation stage is far less important then the promotion stage of cancer. This is because we are very likely "dosed" with a certain amount of carcinogens in our everyday lives, but whether they lead to full tumours depends on their promotion, or lack thereof.


    I will keep looking into it,
    Thanks for the update it is interesting to see what info is out there.

    Rat based research . . . a nice starting point in medical research but not convincing at all. LOL . . . do you know how many times they have cured cancer in rats only to find it had no effect in humans? Countless. I appreciate the info but I think these guys are biased and going a bit overboard in their speculation.
    Disclaimer: While I have an M.D. the views I express are not to be taken as medical advice under any circumstances. Please check with your own doctor if you want medical advice as he/she has access to your info and can provide the most accurate advice.


    www.pubmed.gov . . . gotta love it
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    Some more excerpts

    "NOT ALL PROTEINS ARE ALIKE . . . If you have followed the story so far, you have seen how provocative these findings are. Controlling cancer through nutrition was, and still is, a radical idea. But as if this weren't enough, one more issue would yield explosive information: did it make any difference what type of protein was used in these experiments? For all of these experiments, we were using casein, which makes up 87% of cow's milk protein. So the next logical question was whether PLANT PROTEIN, tested in the same way, has the same effect on cancer promotion as casein. . .

    "THE ANSWER IS AN ASTONISHING 'NO.' In these experiments, PLANT PROTEIN DID NOT PROMOTE CANCER GROWTH, even at HIGHER levels of intake. . . But the cancer-promoting factor in this case was cow's milk protein. It was difficult enough for my colleagues to accept the idea that protein might help cancer grow, but cow's milk protein? Was I crazy?
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    "The effects of protein feeding on tumor development were nothing less than spectacular. Rats generally live for about two years, thus the study was 100 weeks in length. All animals that were administered aflatoxin and fed the regular 20% levels of casein either were DEAD or near death from liver tumors at 100 weeks. All animals administered the same level of aflatoxin but fed the low 5% protein diet were ALIVE, active and thrifty, with sleek coats at 100 weeks. . . Let there be no doubt: COW'S MILK PROTEIN IS AN EXCEPTIONALLY POTENT CANCER PROMOTER in rats dosed with aflatoxin. . .
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    And once I finsh this book I will be able to let you guys know what the China study has to contrubte towards this on a human expermental level,

    "We need direct evidence from HUMAN research. . . Having the opportunity to do such a study is rare, at best, but by incredibly good luck we were given exactly the opportunity we needed. . . . We were given the chance to do a human study that would take all of these principles we had begun to uncover in the lab to the next level. It was time to study the role of nutrition, lifestyle and disease in the most comprehensive manner ever undertaken in the history of medicine. We were on to THE CHINA STUDY. . ."
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    Now if you guys want my opinion on this,

    I believe that whole food is whole for a reason, when you start to separate it you end up with problems. I believe whole milk is still good for a person because it contains other things in it to balance every thing out. Casein may be cancer causing but Whey is considered a cancer fighting agent so when you put the two together you get balance. Now when we separate Casein to make cheese and other things like casein protein powders we get an imbalance.

    Nature balances the good with the bad for a reason,

    And I still don’t believe that milk products should be a large part of any adults diet as our body’s have not had time evolve to such a diet. Europeans are ahead of other cultures but are still a long way from being fully evolved to a high milk diet.

    I will only being using Whey protein from now on,
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    Did they have any rat groups fed other sources of animal protein?
    Disclaimer: While I have an M.D. the views I express are not to be taken as medical advice under any circumstances. Please check with your own doctor if you want medical advice as he/she has access to your info and can provide the most accurate advice.


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    I can't understand where casein would do this. I mean, think about your GI tract. You eat the stuff, it goes down, the protein structure gets moved around and broken down (if it hasn't already from cooking), then gets hit with a dose of protease and broken down into more basic amino acids.......
    Did I miss something here? I mean I can believe that maybe something else in these milk products is bad for you, but casein is just a protein from what I understand. And proteins can only do so much when you eat them.
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    i doubt casein is the cause of cancer. actually studies on whey protein has been proven to help fight cancer, so **** jus take a equal amount of both and ull be back to square one
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    Originally Posted by sonick
    I can't understand where casein would do this. I mean, think about your GI tract. You eat the stuff, it goes down, the protein structure gets moved around and broken down (if it hasn't already from cooking), then gets hit with a dose of protease and broken down into more basic amino acids.......
    Did I miss something here? I mean I can believe that maybe something else in these milk products is bad for you, but casein is just a protein from what I understand. And proteins can only do so much when you eat them.
    I agree, I just can't seem to image that casien would be causing cancerous effects on your cells. Does the research mention any mechanisms involved with the casien acting on the cells or speculations on how it stimulates the uncontrolled growth.
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    There is plenty of research to show that it is an issue, I rember back when trans-fats were just starting to get reconized by the public. It was the same story, and the same goes for even saturated fats.

    I would also like to find out what mechanisms are involved with casien and how it effects the cells im sure the info is out there, I will keep you guys posted.
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    Originally Posted by sonick
    I can't understand where casein would do this. I mean, think about your GI tract. You eat the stuff, it goes down, the protein structure gets moved around and broken down (if it hasn't already from cooking), then gets hit with a dose of protease and broken down into more basic amino acids.......
    Did I miss something here? I mean I can believe that maybe something else in these milk products is bad for you, but casein is just a protein from what I understand. And proteins can only do so much when you eat them.

    Also it might not just be the casein its self that causes the promotion of cancer growth it could be the enzymes used in the proccess of breaking down the casein or mabye not all the casein gets broken down and certain amounts enter your blood stream, I know this is the case with autism, people with this condition have to go on a casein free diet because of the effects of casein on the brain. Its possible that the same effects felt from autism patients are what effects cancer growth, its seems to me that casein is more then just a simple protien being broken down and entering the blood stream in like any other protien. There is going to be effects from te break down.

    Anyways I will look more into it on a cellular level.
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    It's not the casein, it's the passage or transit time through the gastrointestinal tract that plays a pivotal role in tumorigenesis. A diet rich an (saturated) fats and slow digestible proteins and a lack of fibres leads to very long transit times. This - in turn - increases the duration of contact between irritating substances and the collorectal mucosa, which displays kinda "chronic irritation". Chronic irritation leads to local inflammatory processes, which - in turn - are carcinogenic in the long run.
    A diet that is based on animal products rich in slowly digestible fats and proteins and lacking fibres will increase the risk of colorectal (and possibly other) tumors. Add some oats to your casein dring and you will be fine.
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