Thai girl gives birth at the age of nine

[SYRIANKID]

and how many different "gods laws" are out there? unless you are of that specific religion, those have less meaning than man's law since they have no basis to you

and again, theres nothing to "prove" theyre gods law other than faith in handed-down word

This is not accurate, just because there are many contradictory religions doesn't mean they are all equally valid or invalid. Anyone can make up a religion...but how many can provide evidence that they are Divinely revealed?

[BPP]

If she were actually sentient enough to ask to get married, sure

you honestly think a 3 year old is even capable of being of sound mind to make ANY life-long choices? 3 year olds can barely speak, let alone grasp adult concepts such as marraige and responsibility

[LatsMakeTheMan]

The laws you are talking about are Laws of God. You are trying to compare them to Laws of man. God makes no mistake, while man makes mistakes. So it's obvious that you MUST follow the laws of God. You yourself said that government laws came from experience, thus man made previous mistakes to arrive to these laws. This in itself proves that the current laws might be wrong and in the future man might realize that and change them.

This was a simple overview to prove that government laws arent something that is 100% accurate and they maybe meanigless.

First it's got to be obvious that God exists before it becomes obvious that you must follow his laws.

There is no proof that God exists. Therefore, you can't claim that the laws of man are inferior.

Why not believe that the laws of Middle-Earth, Narnia or Never Never Land are the superior set we should follow?

[getting2big]

and how many different "gods laws" are out there? unless you are of that specific religion, those have less meaning than man's law since they have no basis to you

and again, theres nothing to "prove" theyre gods law other than faith in handed-down word

I was just stating the facts from a muslims perspective but debating whether they are laws of God or not needs another thread and a lot of knowledge and above that a person who is actually looking for the truth.

[SYRIANKID]

you honestly think a 3 year old is even capable of being of sound mind to make ANY life-long choices? 3 year olds can barely speak, let alone grasp adult concepts such as marraige and responsibility

Today, no. But that's because of their social upbringing.

I guarantee you if all you do is give a kid toys and immature books and no intellectual engagement, they will remain childlike into their 30s.

[BPP]

Today, no. But that's because of their social upbringing.

I guarantee you if all you do is give a kid toys and immature books and no intellectual engagement, they will remain childlike into their 30s.

so at some era in time 3 years olds were capable of the same decision processes and mental capacity of any 20 year old?

[SYRIANKID]

so at some era in time 3 years olds were capable of the same decision processes and mental capacity of any 20 year old?

There are records of two year olds sitting at scholarly gatherings memorizing what they heard

[frankenstein]

Today, no. But that's because of their social upbringing.

I guarantee you if all you do is give a kid toys and immature books and no intellectual engagement, they will remain childlike into their 30s.

Oh I see. So 1400 years ago, 9 year olds and 3 year olds were practically adults? Yes, yes. After they were done harvesting the crops, they'd sit back and their grandkids would come over while the 9 year olds told stories of what is was like back in their hay days.


Nice try SK. You're sounding laughable and ridiculous. All in the sake of trying to excuse ****philia.

[BPP]

There are records of two year olds sitting at scholarly gatherings memorizing what they heard

memorizing and rationalizing compl;icated concepts are 2 dif things

a tape recorded can tell you what was said(eg memorize), but can no more use any of it to explain the concept than the 2 year old could

[LatsMakeTheMan]

There are records of two year olds sitting at scholarly gatherings memorizing what they heard

I don't know if I buy that one

[SYRIANKID]

Nice try SK. You're sounding laughable and ridiculous. All in the sake of trying to excuse ****philia.

You sound like you have no counter-arguments

And as I've explained countless times before:

****philia involves pre-pubescent children, outside of a consensual marriage.

[SYRIANKID]

memorizing and rationalizing compl;icated concepts are 2 dif things

a tape recorded can tell you what was said(eg memorize), but can no more use any of it to explain the concept than the 2 year old could

Ok, let's cut to the chase:

1. What in your OPINION are the minimum requirements (SAT score, whatever) to get married, have a friendship, engage in sexual intercourse, conceive a child.

2. How are you testing for any of these?

And most importantly:

3. Why should your standards be accepted over anyone else's? Because I can also say that the minimum requirement to raise a child is 30 years of age, 1250 on the SATs, a perfect criminal record, and a 5-year training course. We can always UP the standards, but that is no guarantee on quality, nor that the minimum requirements haven't already been met.

[BPP]

1. What in your OPINION are the minimum requirements (SAT score, whatever) to get married, have a friendship, engage in sexual intercourse, conceive a child.

2. How are you testing for any of these?

first, same 3 questions to you

any age can have "friends". ceonceiving a child should be from inside of marraige. marraige and sex IMO need a set 'minimum' age for a few reasons. First, if theres no "mininum" age, when a child(or puberty-going thru 13 year old) IS taken advantage of by an adult, there would be no way to prosecute that person unless theres a legal statute. scond, just like you said, how do we determin these things? It's hard enough looking at it as a concept...now we go case by case? who has the qualifications, resources, time to do that? In a day and age where the lifespan is double that of "olden times" were these ages come from, whats wrong with making someone wait a few extra yhears to get married to be sure they can fully grasp the entire situation/concept and at least make a rational decision. any 9 year old can tell you they want to get married, but then again 9 year olds tell you they want to do anything they see adults doing...its the adults role to sort through and determine what is acceptable or not. if you took 3rd graders(~9 year olds), and gave them a 100 level sociology college exam from a course such as "the family", how many could pass?

And most importantly:

3. Why should your standards be accepted over anyone else's? Because I can also say that the minimum requirement to raise a child is 30 years of age, 1250 on the SATs, and a perfect criminal record.

and why should yours? anyone can 'say" a 5 year old is capable of understanding such concepts enough to make decisions over them, however iI bet you'd be very hard-pressed to find any credible child doctor/psychologist/expert to agree

[Chuteboxe]

You sound like you have no counter-arguments

And as I've explained countless times before:

****philia involves pre-pubescent children, outside of a consensual marriage.

Marriage to a pre-pubescent child for the purpose of submission to rape when the first drop of menstruation comes out *is* ****philia.


You can argue for 10,000 years that isn't using subjective SAT scores, age ranges of 30 and so on. The fact is the mental and physical development of 4, 6, and 9 year olds are not equivalent to adult and not able to make sexual decisions with 53 year olds.


****philia does not have to be hidden, nor does it have to be "unconsensual", ****s will often give children gifts, candies, pop and other things in exchange for consent, or interpret silence as consent like mohammed did.


This *is* ****philia period and you are a sick bastard

[kassit]

Doesn't that same "american christian soil" have some of the largest child porn and molestation issues on the face of the planet? Ironic.

LOL!

[superdrool]

Just a quick reminder to people here:

The arguments of SK in this thread, wich are in my opinion portrays a seriously unstable mind, are HIS OWN PERSONAL OPINIONS. They don't reflect the opinions of muslims in general on this issue. I've never seen, or heared of any muslim, scholar or regular, who would think like that.

[frankenstein]

You sound like you have no counter-arguments

And as I've explained countless times before:

****philia involves pre-pubescent children, outside of a consensual marriage.

It's not a matter of lack of counter arguments. You will do anything to defend Mohammad's (PIITB) ****philia, so no matter what anyone does to rationalize with you, you know, use common sense, you will go back to saying she had her 1st period. That 1st menstruation makes her a complete woman in your book because you are trying to excuse the actions of your prophet (PIITB). Had Mo' not taken a 9 year old as his wife, I'm pretty damn sure you and other Muslims would be condemning anyone today doing that because rationality tells you that's wrong.

SK, arguing with you is like arguing with a brick wall anyways. You have your mind made up because of what Islam says about an issue. There is no changing your mind on any issue no matter how utterly insane you prove your beliefs to be. If the Koran gave its stamp of approval on necrophilia, you'd be defending it at all costs, just like you do ****philia.

[TricepsNGirls]

Just a quick reminder to people here:

The arguments of SK in this thread, wich are in my opinion portrays a seriously unstable mind, are HIS OWN PERSONAL OPINIONS. They don't reflect the opinions of muslims in general on this issue. I've never seen, or heared of any muslim, scholar or regular, who would think like that.

I certainly think that it reflects a major aspect of fundamental islamic mentality though - the fanatical adherence to religious law without ANY bit of rationalization, independent thought, or contientiousness. People like SK think that they and their people are completely right; everyone else is dillusioned.


I have a brother who just turned 11, and I tutor elementary school children.

A 9 year old, if married and is having sex, is

1) Forced into the marriage
2) Forced into having sex

[frankenstein]

Just a quick reminder to people here:

The arguments of SK in this thread, wich are in my opinion portrays a seriously unstable mind, are HIS OWN PERSONAL OPINIONS. They don't reflect the opinions of muslims in general on this issue. I've never seen, or heared of any muslim, scholar or regular, who would think like that.

Thank you for making that clear. I've spoken with Muslims and never met one who would approve of the crap that he spews into cyberspace. He's defending just for the sake of defending. He refuses to say "ok, yeah marrying a 9 year old is not right. It's a bit extreme and wrong" because to him that would be admitting that Mohammed wasn't perfect.

[BPP]

Just a quick reminder to people here:

The arguments of SK in this thread, wich are in my opinion portrays a seriously unstable mind, are HIS OWN PERSONAL OPINIONS. They don't reflect the opinions of muslims in general on this issue. I've never seen, or heared of any muslim, scholar or regular, who would think like that.

finally, some common sense

[reignoffire]

Speculation, but maybe he defends it because thats what he wants for himself? I really don't see any other reason you would defend something so dispicable. He has before, but this is basically legalised ****phillia. Maybe he has a thing for 9 year old girls.

[BPP]

Maybe he has a thing for 9 year old girls.

not girls, fully matured, responsible 9 year old WOMEN, fully capable of anything a 25 year old is capable of!

[superdrool]

because to him that would be admitting that Mohammed wasn't perfect.

Islam itself never suggested that Prophet muhammad was "perfect" in his actions, If FrustratedKid knows about his religion as much as he claims he would've realized that.

SK, stop speaking on behalf of muslims as if you're thier official representive. And for the sake of your mental health, cut this e-mufti role you've taken up here and start finding something else to obsess over than religion.

I used to be like you btw, but then i discovered social life and started getting laid. did wonders. I recommend it.

[draco]

This whole thread is like a group of people trying describe to a blind man what blue looks like.

I don't think anything anyone says will change SK's mind.

[t0mmy]

know why a 9 y/o giving birth is in the news? because it's fu.cked up

o and not to mention having sex with a 9 yr old is illegal in this great country anyway

[reignoffire]

not girls, fully matured, responsible 9 year old WOMEN, fully capable of anything a 25 year old is capable of!

That's ****kid's religious right, damn it!

[AnimalOnly]

But you still need evidence, not possibilities.



If she were actually sentient enough to ask to get married, sure, though the parents do reserve the temporary right to forbid that if they feel their son or daughter are not capable of it.

"Keep thee far from a false matter; and the innocent and righteous slay thou not: for I will not justify the wicked." - Exodus 23 : 7

[AnimalOnly]

Speculation, but maybe he defends it because thats what he wants for himself? I really don't see any other reason you would defend something so dispicable. He has before, but this is basically legalised ****phillia. Maybe he has a thing for 9 year old girls.

Bingo

[SYRIANKID]

first, same 3 questions to you

any age can have "friends". ceonceiving a child should be from inside of marraige. marraige and sex IMO need a set 'minimum' age for a few reasons. First, if theres no "mininum" age, when a child(or puberty-going thru 13 year old) IS taken advantage of by an adult, there would be no way to prosecute that person unless theres a legal statute. scond, just like you said, how do we determin these things? It's hard enough looking at it as a concept...now we go case by case? who has the qualifications, resources, time to do that? In a day and age where the lifespan is double that of "olden times" were these ages come from, whats wrong with making someone wait a few extra yhears to get married to be sure they can fully grasp the entire situation/concept and at least make a rational decision. any 9 year old can tell you they want to get married, but then again 9 year olds tell you they want to do anything they see adults doing...its the adults role to sort through and determine what is acceptable or not. if you took 3rd graders(~9 year olds), and gave them a 100 level sociology college exam from a course such as "the family", how many could pass?

and why should yours? anyone can 'say" a 5 year old is capable of understanding such concepts enough to make decisions over them, however iI bet you'd be very hard-pressed to find any credible child doctor/psychologist/expert to agree

Well as you pointed out, because testing "qualifications" is a drain on resources and there will not necessarily be a consensus on the matter on who is "ready" for marriage and child-rearing, it is and always will be up to the legal system to determine what is "reasonable".

After all, even in the legal system, much law is based on what the "reasonable man" would do or should know in a specific case, as if that is wholly objective...and it's not, people still argue about this concept because it's subjective. It's very hard to categorize what is "reasonable" and that's why it is actually left to a judge and jury on a case-by-case basis.

In Islam, the matter of legal maturity is based on Divine Revelation, elsewhere, on the legislation of Congress whose views will change over time.

[KhanPaulsen]

Just a quick reminder to people here:

The arguments of SK in this thread, wich are in my opinion portrays a seriously unstable mind, are HIS OWN PERSONAL OPINIONS. They don't reflect the opinions of muslims in general on this issue. I've never seen, or heared of any muslim, scholar or regular, who would think like that.

Are you a Muslim?

I'm curious, because if you are, I'd like to see the difference in belief over this issue.