Race

[SwagMorris]

This is in NO way a racist comment. I say this because I know some how some way someone could turn this into one. But, is it just me or do other people think that black body builders or black athletes in general have better bodies than whites. I had black friends in high school that would barely workout, and be way bigger and stronger than everyone else who worked way harder. And in my opinion I think body builders like not just Ronnie Coleman, but Johnnie Jackson, Victor Martinez, Richard Jones, Dexter Jackson have better bodies than any white body builders. Some times I think Jay Cutler does as good as he does because he is white. He is impressive, but still. For the record I am white.

[C@$#]

It's because black males produce more testosterone

[ryuten]

also cuz back when african americans were slaves, their white slave owners breeded them to make super slaves. at least that's what chris rock said. they mated the biggest black guys with the biggest black girls. so that way, their children would be even bigger than their mom and dads.

[HomieStaysBuilt]

This is in NO way a racist comment. I say this because I know some how some way someone could turn this into one. But, is it just me or do other people think that black body builders or black athletes in general have better bodies than whites. I had black friends in high school that would barely workout, and be way bigger and stronger than everyone else who worked way harder. And in my opinion I think body builders like not just Ronnie Coleman, but Johnnie Jackson, Victor Martinez, Richard Jones, Dexter Jackson have better bodies than any white body builders. Some times I think Jay Cutler does as good as he does because he is white. He is impressive, but still. For the record I am white.

I love how some people on this site just think Black people can go to sleep and wake up he-u-mongous the next morning. Come on man, we put just as much effort into working out as anybody else. I know what your saying isn't trying to be racist, but I've seen comments like this a few times on these boards. Why do people think Black people don't put in as much effort into things related to sports as white people?

[SwagMorris]

I don't. I'm just saying the friends I had in high school barely did anything. And I didn't feel like typing all of this before but now I will. Those friends I had were all cousins and they were genetically like that. I know a lot of black athletes work extremely hard to get where they are. But most black body builders have better bodies than whites, and I think the whites place better in competitions because they are white.

[BigRagu]

I don't. I'm just saying the friends I had in high school barely did anything. And I didn't feel like typing all of this before but now I will. Those friends I had were all cousins and they were genetically like that. I know a lot of black athletes work extremely hard to get where they are. But most black body builders have better bodies than whites, and I think the whites place better in competitions because they are white.

OK now your starting to play the race card......... body wise at your high school was prob because their diet was better and they didn't sit inside all day long play video games they were outside playing sports.....

and if u want to get into things ronnie looks good and all but i think gunter looks wat better then he does... and that is at YOUR high school

[HomieStaysBuilt]

But most black body builders have better bodies than whites, and I think the whites place better in competitions because they are white.

Oh ok then. That's a different story. I thought you were saying they had better bodies than whites despite not working out as hard.

[Gibblets]

Dude, it's not about race, but individual genetics. Yes, you'll find more cases of this versus more cases of that in this race versus that, but you cannot generalize and say "all blank are bigger/smaller than blank", know what I mean?

It is true that one person can work just as hard as another, and get less of a result. This is true not only in bodybuilding, but in things like intelligence as well. Some people have photographic memories, or just retain information better than others, just like how some people can build more muscle off of the same amount of stimulus that someone else gets yet builds less muscle.

Each person is different, and differences occur in all aspects of life, across all areas. It's not about race. It's about individuals.

[SwagMorris]

OK now your starting to play the race card......... body wise at your high school was prob because their diet was better and they didn't sit inside all day long play video games they were outside playing sports.....

and if u want to get into things ronnie looks good and all but i think gunter looks wat better then he does... and that is at YOUR high school

No they were normal kids. Play sports and video games like everyone else. And that was a good point that one guy made about testosterone. I did not know that.

But you know one racist thing, or not racist but ignorant thing people say is black people have an extra muscle in their calf and that's why they run faster. That's just retarted.

[BigRagu]

No they were normal kids. Play sports and video games like everyone else. And that was a good point that one guy made about testosterone. I did not know that.

But you know one racist thing, or not racist but ignorant thing people say is black people have an extra muscle in their calf and that's why they run faster. That's just retarted.

i don't believe that blacks produce more test then whites do... i think each has either low and high ends.... maybe your friends just had really good genetics for muscle growth along with a good diet..... one thing that a black man def has over a white man is the color of his skin helps to bring out the definition in his muscle much better then a lighted skinned person....

[HomieStaysBuilt]

One person compared Black people to kangaroos on this board.

"Yea they have high calves like kangaroos that's why they jump high like kangaroos."

Now we're animals. But biologically there is no difference between white people and Black people. There have been many studies on this. In class we watched a video on race and how when Jesse Owens won 4 gold medals beating out many white people, they thought it was because Black people were genetically superior to white people so they had all these doctors and scientists run tests on him to see if it was true. They concluded that biologically there is no difference between the white athlete and the Black athlete.

The video was very informative. It talked about how 2 people within the same race can be as genetically different as 2 people from different races. Race is really nothing more than how much melanin you have or don't have. That's it. It doesn't determine how smart or athletic you are.

[comf0rtablynumb]

One person compared Black people to kangaroos on this board.

"Yea they have high calves like kangaroos that's why they jump high like kangaroos."

Now we're animals. But biologically there is no difference between white people and Black people. There have been many studies on this. In class we watched a video on race and how when Jesse Owens won 4 gold medals beating out many white people, they thought it was because Black people were genetically superior to white people so they had all these doctors and scientists run tests on him to see if it was true. They concluded that biologically there is no difference between the white athlete and the Black athlete.

I really do find that hard to believe - if you look at wide range of sports it's cleary apparent that those of african american descent dominate (in certain sports but not all). Look at athletics (short distance, i.e 100m, 200m etc), basketball, nfl, etc. I can't speak for all sports in the US because i'm Australian but there's a similar scenario here. Rugby is becoming increasingly dominated by islanders and those of maori descent. Similarly, if you look at Olympia qualifiers the representation is predominantly ethnic. Obviously not all black people are genetically predisposed to being a great athlete or bodybuilder, but the frequency of athletically gifted individuals seems to override those of anglo-saxon origin. This isnt a race debate by any means, but its an observation I have also made.

Basically what i'm hypothesising is that whilst no race is singularly predisposed to any certain sport, the frequency of genetically gifted african america athletes regarding basketball, american football and short distance running does seem to be higher than those of caucasian ancestry. Similarly, central/eastern africans seem to be more inclined towards long distance running - look who places in the top 3 most years in marathon events and it's generally the kenyans, zambians etc. As I said earlier, noone is claiming black people to have a less intense work ethic then their white counterparts, but in general, african americans seem to be more genetically predisposed to bodybuilding than anglosaxons. Concurrently, white people tend to dominate at certain sports, for example swimming. Whether this is an environmental thing (which it quite possibly is), certain races seem to lean towards particular sports. One more example is the eastern bloc powerlifting - one might argue that eastern europeans are more genetically inclined towards heavy lifting but who knows.

[HomieStaysBuilt]

Whatever man. I'm Black, I don't care. I was just trying to give you all some credit. My b.

[rockhuddy]

one thing that a black man def has over a white man is the color of his skin helps to bring out the definition in his muscle much better then a lighted skinned person....

Absolutely true; thus the extreme tanning by white guys in competition. Dark skin shows muscle definition so much better than light skin that it can make someone look in significantly better shape than they really are.

[Clark Lambert]

No they were normal kids. Play sports and video games like everyone else. And that was a good point that one guy made about testosterone. I did not know that.

But you know one racist thing, or not racist but ignorant thing people say is black people have an extra muscle in their calf and that's why they run faster. That's just retarted.

So is it less retarded of you to believe somebody's post about testosterone?

I'll say one thing about this truly ignorant thread.
It's definatley brought out the truly ignorant.

The Sh*t that continues to appear on this board is appalling.
No wonder the general population is of the opinion that bodybuilders are so stupid.

[BigRagu]

i'm not going to get into a argument about this but black tend to like certain sports and that is why blacks dominate those example football.... hockey more whites play that is why the nhl is dominated by whites.... when more of a race plays a certain sports of course u will find alot of them that are really dam good at it.... arent cubans really dam good at baseball? argentina won in 2004 basketball italy won 2nd ....... there are good althetes in all races..... your starting to see more whites pop up in basketball and more blacks in hockey....... this is just a stereotype...... right now a black man is the best in the world at bb.... the next might not who knows......just end the thread it's totally stupid

[Clark Lambert]

one thing that a black man def has over a white man is the color of his skin helps to bring out the definition in his muscle much better then a lighted skinned person....

Exactly.
... this is why bodybuilders try to become as dark as possible.
Even African-American and darker skinned athletes still hit the tanning salon to even out the color.

[jayvee]

one of the things about bodybuilding, is often looking good, is about who can create the best illusion. someone may not have as big a back as someone else, however, they may have a genetically far smaller waist which makes it look that way. many of the african-american bodybuilders, on the whole seem to have smaller joints and create an excellent illusion (especially those specifically gifted with also full muscle bellies like flex and dexter). now, the small joints do seem to be prevalent amongst the african-american bodybuilders, and certainly helps with aethetics. but wether thats due to being an advantage due to race, or simply just because some of these guys are simply just individually genetically fortunate, i do not know. there are always exceptions to the rule, and i have known many white guys with small joints and good aesthetics, but to the eye, it does seem more common in african-americans. peace.

[Clark Lambert]

i'm not going to get into a argument about this but black tend to like certain sports and that is why blacks dominate those example football.... hockey more whites play that is why the nhl is dominated by whites.... when more of a race plays a certain sports of course u will find alot of them that are really dam good at it.... arent cubans really dam good at baseball? argentina won in 2004 basketball italy won 2nd ....... there are good althetes in all races..... your starting to see more whites pop up in basketball and more blacks in hockey....... this is just a stereotype...... right now a black man is the best in the world at bb.... the next might not who knows......just end the thread it's totally stupid

I think there is a large social impact to be taken into account for the logistics of economic class.
Unfortunatley african-Americans still have to deal with a large amount of social and racial differences in the community. The Majority of lower-class families in America are African-American... many sports are expensive, especially hockey.
It doesn't cost much to play basketball or baseball. A ball... net... bat. Then go find a school or park to play in. It's an accesable sport.
Thats why Soccer is played by more people in more countries than virtually any sport. Rich or poor.... everyone plays Soccer.

Hockey, as with many other sports like Rowing, Biathlon, Gymnastics, Bobsled, even swimming and Golf mean one must have access to facilities and still pay for equipment were required.
Basketball, Soccer, Baseball, Track and field are very accesable sports... available in school and are relatively cheap to play.

geography also plays a huge role.
Exactly why there are so few African, African-American, South American, or Pelopynisian athletes in the Winter Olympics.
Not alot of snow in the tropics or southern united states.
This might be of interest...
According to league reports, only 18 black players reached the NHL between 1958 and 1991. While racism certainly played some role in keeping the figure to a minimum, it may have been more a function of the demographic makeup of Canada. In 1971, Canadians made up over 95% of the NHL, and only .02% of all Canadians were black. Today, the black population in Canada has increased to 2%. In addition, the United States, with a much higher black population than Canada, now contributes approximately 15% of all NHL players while Canada produces just over 60%.

What I am currently trying to find out for this thread is how many of those black NHL'ers were from Canada compared to the US.
If I am not mistaken it's 100%.
Interestingly... the highest ratio of racial groups in the lower class in Canada is not black.
Most Black people in Canada are actually middle class.

[johnnyironboard]

I think there is a large social impact to be taken into account for the logistics of economic class.
Unfortunatley african-Americans still have to deal with a large amount of social and racial differences in the community. The Majority of lower-class families in America are African-American... many sports are expensive, especially hockey.
It doesn't cost much to play basketball or baseball. A ball... net... bat. Then go find a school or park to play in. It's an accesable sport.

So why is the NBA 90% black? The money is very, very good so it should attract all races to participate and it's cheap to play. Why no Asian-Americans playing in the NBA?

[elmafud]

I really do find that hard to believe - if you look at wide range of sports it's cleary apparent that those of african american descent dominate (in certain sports but not all). Look at athletics (short distance, i.e 100m, 200m etc), basketball, nfl, etc. I can't speak for all sports in the US because i'm Australian but there's a similar scenario here. Rugby is becoming increasingly dominated by islanders and those of maori descent. Similarly, if you look at Olympia qualifiers the representation is predominantly ethnic. Obviously not all black people are genetically predisposed to being a great athlete or bodybuilder, but the frequency of athletically gifted individuals seems to override those of anglo-saxon origin. This isnt a race debate by any means, but its an observation I have also made.

Basically what i'm hypothesising is that whilst no race is singularly predisposed to any certain sport, the frequency of genetically gifted african america athletes regarding basketball, american football and short distance running does seem to be higher than those of caucasian ancestry. Similarly, central/eastern africans seem to be more inclined towards long distance running - look who places in the top 3 most years in marathon events and it's generally the kenyans, zambians etc. As I said earlier, noone is claiming black people to have a less intense work ethic then their white counterparts, but in general, african americans seem to be more genetically predisposed to bodybuilding than anglosaxons. Concurrently, white people tend to dominate at certain sports, for example swimming. Whether this is an environmental thing (which it quite possibly is), certain races seem to lean towards particular sports. One more example is the eastern bloc powerlifting - one might argue that eastern europeans are more genetically inclined towards heavy lifting but who knows.

very well put and i agree with your points.

[AangleN]

to each his own. you can talk about actual sports all day long, but when you talk about bodybuilding its all personal preference.

also, people will tend to like guys who resemble themselves more. i.e. i will never look like flex or shawn ray, but have a much better chance at a jay cutler or markus ruhl look and thus i like them better.

[hohoho]

pffft , aint nothin to it but to do it

[Guardian]

Blacks shortfall is they tend to have higher insertion poinds for connective tissue and bellies.

[RACKITUP]

[intelligentvirus]

hmm interesting i suppose...

[comf0rtablynumb]

Everyone crying 'racist, racist!' is damned fool if you ask me. If someone would care to point out where I marginalised someone on the basis of their race please go ahead because I hold no prejudice, nor does my post - this is merely an observation I have made (as have several others obviously). Why is it unfathomnable that one race may produce a higher frequency of gifted athletes in certain sports? Considering most frequenting these boards would have some idea of how genetics impact on individual bodybuilding, why is it impossible to believe that genetics might also be at play here? Surely there are environmental and geographical factors at play (as one of the previous posters has illustrated and I also have acknowledged) but when one considers the universality of bodybuilding, then looks at the ethnic breakdown it's clear that there is far greater representation of african americans then anglosaxons. Why? Well one could speculate 'til the cows come home but one notion would be that certain races are genetically predisposed towards certain sports. People must wrap their heads around this - THIS IS NOT A RACIST COMMENT - NOONE IS MARGINALISING ANYONE ON THE BASIS OF THEIR RACE - THIS IS MERELY AN OBSERVATION

Why do people assume that because one has observed a larger ethnic representation in bodybuilding, that the said person resents this? I don't care what race Mr Olympia is - what I do care about is that the person crowned Mr Olympia is the number 1 bodybuilder in the world. Ronnie Coleman is obviously the right candidate, thus the reason I support him - racial villification is not the issue here. It wouldnt matter whether he was African-American, Caucasian, Persian - you name it. The only thing that this post has exhibited is that the US still has a long way to go as far as the race issue is concerned. The pendulum has swung the other way now - you don't have to be remotely prejudiced - in fact, you could be the most tolerant person in the world but should you mention anything neutral regarding race and you're labelled an ignorant racist.

The only other thing that i'll say is this: I think geography and environmental factors are definately key components that have also shaped ethnic representation in sports (alongside genetics). As a previous poster pointed out, the reason african americans dominate at some sports but not at others may be as a result of their geographical bearing but bear this in mind - when one looks at the US as an example and considers that both white and black inhabit the same area and are afforded the same opportunities (in fact whites are given more opportunities than blacks) - why then do african americans dominate basketball, nfl etc? Id be willing to bet that should hockey become more prevalent in the US, african americans would consitute a much greater representation in the sport then at present.

[1devil]

Most blacks in the US are of West African descent. West Africans happen to have desirable genetics for bodydbuilding. This is not a racist statement it is just a fact. But to say that all people of African descent have good genetics for bodybuilding is not accurate. Africa has many different ethnic groups. In fact there is probably more ethnic diversity in Africa than on any other continent.

I also really don't buy into the "they were bred to be better bigger and stronger" theory. Jew's during world war II were subjected to horrible living conditions during the holocaust. Yet that environment did not produce a breed of super Jewish athletes.

The bottom line is that certain ethnic groups have certain advantages in certain sports. However, you need to be careful about making sweeping generalizations

[bbjeff86]

Each person is different, and differences occur in all aspects of life, across all areas. It's not about race. It's about individuals.

Well... actually race does have a big impact on things. There are variences of course across the board, but you can generalize on certain things. For instance on average blacks do have higher testosterone levels. They also ON AVERAGE have more fast twitch muscle fibers, which help in things like boxing, sprinting ect... While whites tend to escell in power lifting because they have a higher percentage of slow twitch fibers. And as for intelligence the average black has an IQ 15 points lower than the average white.

[bbjeff86]

One person compared Black people to kangaroos on this board.

"Yea they have high calves like kangaroos that's why they jump high like kangaroos."

Now we're animals. But biologically there is no difference between white people and Black people. There have been many studies on this. In class we watched a video on race and how when Jesse Owens won 4 gold medals beating out many white people, they thought it was because Black people were genetically superior to white people so they had all these doctors and scientists run tests on him to see if it was true. They concluded that biologically there is no difference between the white athlete and the Black athlete.

The video was very informative. It talked about how 2 people within the same race can be as genetically different as 2 people from different races. Race is really nothing more than how much melanin you have or don't have. That's it. It doesn't determine how smart or athletic you are.

Almost all of what you just said is false. There are differences in cranial size, brain structure, acitivity in the brain, sulcification & fissuration in the brain. Along with what I already mentioned about testosterone levels.

There are more differences than this but this should do for now. To say the only difference between races is melanin is ignorant and shows lack of knowledge on various studies that have been done.