Need some help here, guys... (Kinda long)

**thx10050** · 01-01-2002, 08:16 PM

Hey, all, I'm new to this forum. I need some questions answered and some advice along with it to boot, so I thought you guys might be able to help me out. Well, here's some background on myself, my situation, and then my questions.

I'm a part of Purdue University's Army ROTC Program and am looking to go Guard soon, with Infantry hopefully, just to give you all some background. I'm about 5'11", 182 pounds usually. Solid figure, but definitely got to burn off some fat on my stomach as well as the lovehandles. Just to tell you all, I'm not a hardcore bodybuilder like most of you guys on here. I certainly watch what I eat during the day and attempt to eat right, but don't maintain a strict diet of a certain amount of calories and stuff like that. The supplements I use now are the ATP Advantage creatine serum before I work out, along with Endurox Excel, protein powder, and GNC's Megamen multi-vitamin. Based on articles I've read at Teenbodybuilding, especially articles by Big Red, I'm trying to get into Prolab's L-Glutamine, Syntrax's Guggubolic, and Ginkgo Biloba. Well, onto the situation itself.

I don't know many of you guys know how Army ROTC works, but suffice to say, each program is run differently at the different universities. Anyways, next semester (which starts Jan. 7th) we'll be starting physical training (PT) for those wanting to go to Airborne School this coming summer. The program, from what I've heard, will involve a good deal of running and endurance exercises, such as multiple sets, high reps of course, of push-ups (diamond, wide, regular) and various types of sit-ups and crunches. Dips, rope-climbing, pull-ups, and other exercises may be included as well, but the focus is on endurance. All of this starts early, very early, usually around 5 AM to 5:30 AM and continues for about an hour, more or less. Here's where my questions come in.

My main question for you all is what are some supplements which I can take early in the morning on an empty stomach (running on a full stomach? Blech...) that will give me energy and help increase my strength and endurance over time, based on this PT. I'm also considering, instead of Airborne PT, using the SEAL fitness program on the bodybuilding site instead, which again promotes mostly endurance and body-weight strength exercises (push-ups, dips, pull-ups, etc). What are some supplements that will help out with this program, or will they be the same? Finally, my second semester schedule has most of my afternoons shut down with classes, so I can't lift then. However, my mornings are free for a long time. Would you guys recommend going to the weight-room in the morning, but after or before breakfast and with or without supplements? I've been lifting weights seriously for a year now, but probably not as hard-core as you guys, so any advice, recommendations, and suggestions are appreciated.

Thanks a lot.

Dave.

**burbansnlacs** · 01-01-2002, 08:23 PM

its a lot easier to just flush your money down the toilet than to take that creatine serum everyday

**BigAssDeltoids** · 01-01-2002, 08:27 PM

sounds like your trying to become an army ranger? i've tried the navy seals workout sh*t, but i only completed the first part- the second part had way too much running for my taste....

in the morning, you'll need to spike your insulin, so first off you need sugar/glucose/dextrose whatever...my advice is just get a friggin can of Red Bull.... next you need protien to prevent you from loosing too much muscle while running (its a bad idea to run on an empty stomach...you'll lose fat allright, but your gonna loste muscle too, and that might affect your ability to pass the PT's requirements)...i suggest you grab a protien bar to go with that...some people take shakes, but that usually leaves me hungry...so i prefer good old solid food... and finally, no i do not suggest you workout in the morning..and get some coffee in the morning..it will help you lose fat faster and will help you remain focused..

PS... yes, i agree...dump that serum...IT DOEST WORK- spend the money on a nice looking hoe instead- you'll get better results that way

**Nigel** · 01-01-2002, 08:33 PM

Powder any good?

**burbansnlacs** · 01-01-2002, 08:33 PM

why do you say for him to not workout in the morning

**thx10050** · 01-01-2002, 08:35 PM

Special Forces has crossed my mind, BAD, on several occasions, but we'll see what happens.

Mostly I'm trying to use the Army to go law-enforcement later on in life, such as SWAT. And thanks for the suggestions, BAD.

As for the serum, I never really used creatine before, so I just bought it a week ago to see how it works. I'll use up the bottle and if nothing has happened, I won't buy another.

**burbansnlacs** · 01-01-2002, 08:36 PM

theres no problem with creatine, its just the serum doesnt work

**BigAssDeltoids** · 01-01-2002, 08:37 PM

nigel, yeah i guess the powder's ok...

burb, i tell him not to work out in the morning because first off you need to spike your insulin when you wake up, so if you do it again after a morning workout, your not gonna get much response from your cells..plus you dont have much energy to fuel your workout..secondly i dont know about you guys, but when i wake up im in a foul mood...im usually still tired, im pissed off, and i loose focus really fast...

**burbansnlacs** · 01-01-2002, 08:39 PM

i usually just hop outta bed and start getting ready to hit the gym,, if i need extra focus or extra energy i pop a couple of ripped fuels which really gives me a good boost

**BigAssDeltoids** · 01-01-2002, 08:40 PM

Originally posted by thx10050
Special Forces has crossed my mind, BAD, on several occasions, but we'll see what happens.

Mostly I'm trying to use the Army to go law-enforcement later on in life, such as SWAT. And thanks for the suggestions, BAD. As for the serum, I never really used creatine before, so I just bought it a week ago to see how it works. I'll use up the bottle and if nothing has happened, I won't buy another.

Well, given that 99.99% of america's cops are fat lazy donut jockey's, you should have absolutely no trouble getting on swat... special forces is cool... just don't join the seals if you cant take extreme cold...i have a freind who's a seal, and he told me the training is friggin brutal... they drop you at night in the cold see and you have to navigate and swim 2 miles...its pretty rough...your better off with the army rangers

**Bob Barker** · 01-01-2002, 09:48 PM

To help the gut fat, you need to lower your carbs and fat first. You can't gain muscle and lose fat at the same time. You can tone what muscle you have right now and lose the fat. For working out, I would do it in the morning, because thats when you have the most time. Eat at least a gram of protein per pound of your body weight to ensure muscle gain. Sense you wan't to lose the fat, eat all your high sugar foods in the morning. You'll want to dimenish your carbs as the day goes. For supplements, I would stay away from taking creatine 20 minutes before you run, b/c I puked once almost twice doing this, it's parlty from the water you gulp down with the creatine before you run. Take Glutamine, if you have the money, research it to know why, and also take a protein drink, or you can buy a high protein food that is cheap like tuna.

**damnJeff** · 01-01-2002, 10:48 PM

Originally posted by BigAssDeltoids

Well, given that 99.99% of america's cops are fat lazy donut jockey's, you should have absolutely no trouble getting on swat... special forces is cool... just don't join the seals if you cant take extreme cold...i have a freind who's a seal, and he told me the training is friggin brutal... they drop you at night in the cold see and you have to navigate and swim 2 miles...its pretty rough...your better off with the army rangers

Actually, the SWAT guys are fukking jacked. I just read a past issue of Men's Fitness a few weeks ago and looked at their training and ****. It's a pretty tough regimen. SWAT is definitely in a league of their own when it comes to regular police squads.

**thx10050** · 01-02-2002, 05:25 AM

Alright, Bob, so you're suggesting I do workout in the morning, but before I go lift, take a protein shake, some glutamine, and eat foods like tuna? Just making sure I'm reading you right here. Depending on how much we do for Airborne PT, I may be pretty tired in the morning before I go lift (from all that running and all) and may not be able to lift as much weight as I normally could on a regular day. Should I still lift or try to fit it in at nights or on weekends? And before Airborne PT, are you suggesting to take Glutamine? Trying to make sure I understand all of this. Also, anyone else have any other suggestions on supplements I could take on an empty stomach? I usually wake up about a half-hour before PT starts, to get to the armory or wherever we will have it. I did this for Ranger Challenge as well, waking up a half-hour before.

**thx10050** · 01-02-2002, 06:38 AM

A couple more questions for you guys, but concerning weight-lifting. When you have a workout program that has a few exercises for a certain muscle group, with multiple sets per exercise, would it be better to switch off to other muscle groups between the different ones?

For example, say I have hammer curls and regular bicep curls. Each exercise has three sets, with ten reps per set. Would it be better to do everything all at once, one set after another and then go on to the next exercise, and do one set after another. Or would it be better to switch off with a pair of exercises before moving on to something else (such as a set of bicep curls and a set of hammer curls and then move to another muscle group for now). Or, would it be better to do a set of biceps, go on to say shoulders, do a set there, and then come back and do a set of hammers, and so on and so forth?

Thanks.

Dave.

**thx10050** · 01-02-2002, 08:17 AM

Just a little update on supplements I've ordered so far: Prolab's L-Glutamine (with the free 100 grams or whatever) and ProZMA, along with Syntrax's Guggulbolic. I've decided to stop taking that creatine serum for now, as I think it's causing my acne to flare up again. Can anyone provide some input on this?

Thanks.

Dave.

**Bob Barker** · 01-02-2002, 12:24 PM

I don't think the creatine is giving you acne, although some people believe it can. You get acne when your going through puberty, and while your going through puberty you hormonal changes, the male hormone is androgen. When your hormones start up your sebaceous glands may as well, which in turn will produce more sebum. The Sebum will block your hair follicle(your pores) and it will get blocked up with stuff like dead skin and bacteria. Clean your face in the morning and at night if you can to clean up what bacteria you have on your face, and you'll have to wait for your hormones to go back to normal for the acne to really go away.

It sounds like your pretty busy and you're tired alot. Eat more good carbs like potatos, rice, oatmeal, to help out in not spiking your glucose. If your to tired to workout don't. You can try caffine supplements, but I don't really reconmend using it for that long b/c your receptors will get use to the caffine, having less affect on you. Simply, eat right and try to workout 3 times per week, but not back to back days. I said tuna because it's a cheap food high in protein, that you don't need a blender to mix up since your training. I think that doing your sets for one excercise is best done all together, so that you spend less time going back in forth between the machines unracking and racking the weights.

**BigAssDeltoids** · 01-02-2002, 12:26 PM

Originally posted by thx10050
A couple more questions for you guys, but concerning weight-lifting. When you have a workout program that has a few exercises for a certain muscle group, with multiple sets per exercise, would it be better to switch off to other muscle groups between the different ones?

For example, say I have hammer curls and regular bicep curls. Each exercise has three sets, with ten reps per set. Would it be better to do everything all at once, one set after another and then go on to the next exercise, and do one set after another. Or would it be better to switch off with a pair of exercises before moving on to something else (such as a set of bicep curls and a set of hammer curls and then move to another muscle group for now). Or, would it be better to do a set of biceps, go on to say shoulders, do a set there, and then come back and do a set of hammers, and so on and so forth?

Thanks.

Dave.

What you are talking about (switching from one muscle group to the other) is a technique called "supersets".... in general, if you want strength and power, i would stick to normal sets...that is, all biceps, then all shoulders, ect...but every month or so you can throw in supersets to add intensity and shock your muscles...

**thx10050** · 01-02-2002, 08:02 PM

Well, Bob, it's not that I'm always tired. I'll admit that college is sometimes tough on me, academically, and so I'll get less sleep then I really need and want. I was just wondering if it would even be worth lifting weights on those days (and those days will be often during the five-day academic week) when we do running and endurance exercises for Airborne PT early in the morning, as I'll most likely be tired, perhaps even sore for the first week or two, and won't be able to lift as much as I normally can when I'm not so worn out.

Thanks for explaining about that super-set thing to me, BAD. I was wondering what people were referring to when they said that. Now that I think about it, that's what I've mostly been doing for my workouts previously. You learn something new everyday...

Anyways, another question for you all, concerning protein. When to take it and how much? I weigh about 182 pounds on average, plus or minus a pound or so sometimes. Also, what are some good brands that can be stirred into skim milk with a spoon, without blending?

Sorry for asking so many questions of you guys, but I'm glad I'm getting some good answers in return.

Thanks.

Dave.

**Latts** · 01-02-2002, 09:10 PM

First off go Boilermakers.

Second, my memory is a little vague but I believe that to go into the college ROTC program you need to pass the basic training PT requirements or you go through them or something to that effect. Second Airborne PT is no worse than recruit training. The empahsis is off getting your body into shape and is based more on learning how to jump. (I know because my father was Airborne and a Ranger.) There is still a crap load of running, however so if you were planning on going to jump school I would concern myself more with endurance and less on getting one's entire body into tip top shape like you could expect in basic. I would be quite benifical for you to lose any gut that you posess because it will just kill you because of the still high physical standard. Also I'm not trying to say that jump school is not difficult, your entire body needs to be in great shape but the PT is not as rigorous as recruit training.

Hoo-ah

**thx10050** · 01-02-2002, 09:23 PM

Well, you don't have to pass any PT requirements to actually enter into Army ROTC, at least at Purdue you don't. However, you must pass the twice-a-semester PT tests. Or at least that's what I've been told thus far.

As for jump school, I'm only a freshman, so I can't get a slot this year. I don't really have an interest in jump school either, but Air Assault is something I'd like to go to. Secondly, Airborne PT for us is optional, but highly recommended, and since I'm a PT nut (and regarded as such within the battalion), I'm probably going to give it a shot and see how it goes. But again, I might switch over to the SEAL workout I read about and use that in the morning instead. We'll see what happens.

Thanks for the response, Latts.

Dave.

**thx10050** · 01-02-2002, 09:27 PM

By the way, Latts, since you seem to have some good experience and knowledge of the Army, since you mentioned that your father was a Ranger, do you think you could come up with a good strength-building weight lifting routine for me that I could follow for several weeks?

Thanks.

Dave.

**thx10050** · 01-03-2002, 04:04 PM

Well, I guess I got the most information that I can get from you guys. Thanks for your help.

Dave.

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