anyone soak or otherwise prepare their grains, nuts, etc?

[psychojoe]

If you do, youll know what im talking about. I might put some links here later if I find suitable ones, but the basic idea is the "raw" grains and nuts are significantly less healthful than somehow prepared ones, at least in part due to enzyme inhibitors and ligands such as phytic acid which chelate mineral ions in the gut, preventint their absorption.

Soaking, cooking, fermenting, etc.

Anyone got any input, links, etc?

--Joe

[Hercule]

Well you know I soak, I have yet to ferment.

I use either dilute vinegar or lemon juice to soak brown rice for 12-24 hours, I would be interested in learning how to ferment grains also, there are a lot of links that google spits out but its something I'd like to see done first hand. I am frightened by a possible rotten smelly mess, or eating somethng that makes me sick but I'll read up on it.

just the first 3 google links I read and thought were good;


http://www.fbfc.com/scoop/feb01/lacto.html

http://www.healingcrow.com/ferfun/ferfun.html

http://www.foodandhealing.com/articl...ptsindiet2.htm

p.s. saurkraut is tasty.

[psychojoe]

thanks for the links dude. I have 1.5l of home-made yoghurt sitting here, I will eat some at about 24hrs since I mixed it. Ill try adding some to oats and water overnight tonight, and see what happens to the oats.

[edplayer]

Originally Posted by psychojoe

If you do, youll know what im talking about. I might put some links here later if I find suitable ones, but the basic idea is the "raw" grains and nuts are significantly less healthful than somehow prepared ones, at least in part due to enzyme inhibitors and ligands such as phytic acid which chelate mineral ions in the gut, preventint their absorption.

I have heard these kind of claims before

My suggestion is that instead of just linking to sites that explain the process, could you post links that measure the process

Studies that measure the quantities of these enzyme inhibitors, phytic and oxalic acids before and after

[edplayer]

I forgot that I had come across some before:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...=pubmed_docsum

what are the names of the enzyme inhibitors that you heard about?

[jeff232]

i soak my nuts daily.

[psychojoe]

werd, I cant find any articles or studies (about grains) that really talk about the actual changes involved after soaking etc.

Im not convinced there is a worthwhile difference... but I intend to prepare my oats (if I eat them at all) for the time being anyway. Even if just to be more like awesome historical people

Ill look for some more info though.

[Hercule]

No one will mistake him for Dr. Quinn, however. Benny is no longer insanely shredded like he was in his eye-bulging bodybuilding days, but at 5'6" and 215 pounds, he's as big and thick as ever, with 20" arms--cold, legitimate. He eats buffalo meat, fertile eggs, homegrown vegetables and an herbal concoction that he ingests every three hours. He also smokes copious amounts of weed, much of it strategically located throughout the mountains that he roams.

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articl...3/ai_n14834172

was just reading about this guy and thought that was interesting.


back to the point though ;

phytic acid

wikipedea ; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phytate
Phytic acid (known as inositol hexaphosphate, or phytate when its salt form) is the principal storage form of phosphorus in many plant tissues, especially seeds. Phosphorus in this form is generally not bioavailable to non-ruminant animals because they lack the digestive enzyme, phytase, required to separate phosphorus from the phytate molecule. On the other hand, ruminants readily utilize phytate because of the phytase produced by rumen microorganisms.

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articl...50/ai_92589772

"Volunteers who ate tortillas made with low-phytic-acid corn flour absorbed 50 percent more iron than those who ate tortillas prepared with conventional corn flour. We expect similar results with volunteers who eat KBNT lpa1-1 rice," Raboy says.


http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/76/3/556

Zinc absorption from a low–phytic acid maize

On average, the fractional absorption of zinc from polenta prepared from the low–phytic acid maize was 78% greater than that from the polenta prepared with the control maize.




this is a good one ;
http://www.syngenta.co.uk/Publicatio...riscience1.pdf

While germinating seeds have a mechanism to release the six phosphates from the phytic acid store for seedling growth, pigs, poultry and other non-ruminants lack this enzyme process – so the phytic acid in their diet passes straight through the digestive system and is excreted

Animal feed producers and farmers must therefore add phosphate to their pig and poultry feed so the animals get enough nutrient to grow healthily

The low-technology solution, still used by some pig farmers today, is to soak the pig feed in water before use. This activates an enzyme called phytase, which is naturally present in the grain, and the enzyme releases the
phosphate from the phytic acid. This same mechanism is used by germinating seeds – but activating the enzyme by soaking the grain isn’t always reliable and is not practical on a large scale.


1. Steep the feed in water to activate
natural phytase enzymes
2. Add the enzyme phytase to feed so
that phosphate is released
3. Engineer cereal seeds to produce
more phytase so that the phytic
acid is more rapidly digested
4. Engineer cereals used for animal
feed to contain less phytic acid
5. Engineer animals to make their own
phytase enzyme


Yes its for pigs but we are actually very similar and also lack the ability to digest phytic acid.

There are ****e loads of studies;
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...&dopt=Abstract

Sorghum and finger millet grains are traditional staple foods in Kenya. However, they have naturally occurring anti-nutritional factors, such as phytic acid, that decrease their dietary availability. This work determined the effect of fermentation and malting on the phytic acid content of, and mineral availability in five varieties of sorghum and four varieties of finger millet grain grown in Kenya. Phytic acid ranged from 875.1 to 2,211.9 mg/100 g in sorghum. The levels in finger millet ranged from 851.6 to 1,419.4 mg/100 g grain. Fermentation resulted in a mean decrease of phytic acid in of 64.8% after 96 hours and 39.0% after 72 hours in sorghum grain. In finger millet, there was a mean decrease of 72.3% and 54.3% after 96 and 72 hours, respectively. Malting also resulted in a mean decrease of 23.9 and 45.3% after 72 and 96 hours, respectively. The extent of decrease of phytic acid differed among the grain varieties. Fermentation increased the rate of available iron, manganese, and calcium in both sorghum and finger millet. The available minerals were generally higher in finger millet than in sorghum after fermentation. Fermentation was also more effective than malting in reducing phytic acid in sorghum and finger millet. Simple traditional food processing methods can therefore be used to increase mineral availability.

Wow I need to find out whether I am doing it properly, maybe 24 hours is nothing like long enough if brown rice is anything like 'sorghum/finger millet'.

malting =The typical "pale malt" malting process is as follows:

* The fresh raw grains are washed and soaked for a period of time to begin germination.
* A constant moisture is held to promote germination and growth of the acrospire.
* The acrospire is allowed to grow to a length equal to the grain, or a little less (about 4–6 days for barley)
* The "green malt" is then kilned at 100°F to 120°F (38°C to 49°C) for about 24 hours and then at 140°F to 160°F (60°C to 71°C), until the moisture content is less than 6%.

wikipedia

[Hercule]

These are not studies;

http://www.alpharubicon.com/primitiv...oodstorell.htm

Fallon believes we should only eat fermented soy products. Until the changes caused by fermentation occur, soy is very high in the harmful phytic acid and enzyme inhibitors that prevent the assimilation of vital nutrients. High soy intake may lead to deficiencies in essential minerals and vitamins even though you are ingesting them in your diet or supplement form because they are blocked from absorbing through the gut wall. These bad guys are present in levels too high to be safely reduced by normal cooking and preparation methods. They may be responsible for the gastric problems (abdominal pain, bloating, gas, diarrhea or constipation) that many people experience when eating soy foods or soy milk. These problems are not present in fermented products, and they can usually be eaten safely by all but those with true soy protein allergies.

http://www.blackherbals.com/dirty_se...g_industry.htm

You soak the grains in warm water and one tablespoon of something acidic like whey, yoghurt, lemon juice or vinegar. The next morning, it cooks in about a minute. Of course, you eat it with butter or cream, coconut and chopped nuts like our grandparents did. The nutrients in the fats are needed to absorb the nutrients in the grains. That was one of the great lessons of Weston Price, that without the fats you can be taking mineral supplements, you can be drinking carrot juice until it comes out your ears, but you cannot absorb the minerals in your food without vitamin A and vitamin D that are exclusively found in the animal fats.

I should really pay more attention to eating grains with animal fats, but it just seems a little difficult when cream/milk is not an option.

[psychojoe]

thanks hercule.

Why not drink some raw dairy? Im not sure if its going to cause me any problems to eat dairy, especially unpasteurised.

Thismorning I had some (pasteurised) organic whole milk with my porridge, as well as honey and an apple (was after a run)

it owned

I LOVE that **** about Benny Podda, thats great. I really feel a drive to live in the wild, or atleast closer to it. I like articles like this too http://www.westonaprice.org/traditio...e_england.html

just for entertainment really

[Hercule]

yeah me also,

The reason I can't eat dairy is it brings out my asthma, without dairy I have no symptoms, with lots of dairy I can't breath within 5 minutes of cycling and cough up lots of flem.
Last time I consumed alot I suffered sore hard red spots on my face which took ages to go. I'd probably be ok with small amounts but I don't want to start down that road incase it hits me without warning. (I gotta look good and cycle to uni in whats always a mad rush each day)