Which 1,4-ANDRO stack do you prefer?

**MikeReid** · 11-03-2002, 12:49 PM

I have finally decided that I am dedicated enough to use prohormones.My aims are to put on weight that I will keep after the cycle, while keeping side effects to a minimum. I have done loads of research on 1,4-andro and want to try it. Taking into consideration this is my first stack which do you feel is best(is stack 1 too harsh for a first stack?)?. I am leaning towards either stack 1 or 3 at the moment.

Stack 1:
1,4-ANDRO 300mg
1-AD 300mg
4-AD 600mg

Stack 2:
1,4-ANDRO 300mg
4-AD 600mg

Stack 3:
1.4 ANDRO 300mg
NOR-DIOL 300mg

Thanks for any help in advance.

**ThaPeoplesChamp** · 11-03-2002, 01:26 PM

Stack 3 would be a very safe stack, as far as side effects go.

Personally I would opt for #2 though as a first stack goes.
I love 4-AD for it's bulk effects, and 1,4 always makes me hungry and that helps to maximize the benefits of both. Strength would also go up very nicely as well from that stack. Although personally i would use 600mg 1,4 a day and 1200mg 4-AD(orally), but that is just me.

**trunkz** · 11-03-2002, 01:29 PM

side effects are a very general. some people get acne, some don't and same goes for all side effects. i'd try the first stack since it will give you the best mass gain results. if it's too harsh for you, then maybe in your case, prohormones aren't the way to go. you're going to have to compromise side effects for gains or vice versa, it's all dependant on how much you're willing to give up on either side.

**dio** · 11-03-2002, 02:26 PM

If this is your first cycle, then you should just use 1,4 by itself. 600mg/day should yield decent results.

**windwords7** · 11-03-2002, 02:34 PM

Originally posted by dio
If this is your first cycle, then you should just use 1,4 by itself. 600mg/day should yield decent results.

Bump. First cycle that will be sufficent.

How many times do we need to see that the person who does just one PH/PS and the one who does 3 still gain the same in the end.

The question when adding in other PH/PS substances is: what will the other substance provide besides gains (like 4AD and it libido and or lethargy benefit). Otherwise there is no reason to to do them all at the same time.

**Original Poster** · 11-03-2002, 03:32 PM

Originally posted by dio
If this is your first cycle, then you should just use 1,4 by itself. 600mg/day should yield decent results.

Double Bump

**windwords7** · 11-03-2002, 03:36 PM

Originally posted by Chi_town
Double Bump

Oh yeah! Triple bump! J/K

**Flee Priest** · 11-03-2002, 03:41 PM

Quadruple bump

**Flee Priest** · 11-03-2002, 03:51 PM

quintuple bu...no hehe ;-) how about the people saying you get the most gains ever from your very first cycle so you should make it into this "advanced killer stack" to squeeze the most out of it and not only waste the opportunity with one single uhm..product?

(Of course I just came back here from reading about mad steroid cycles over at the fitnessboard...I mean those maniacs discusses DNP and T3 like its creatine or something!? I promise I read about this only for recreational purposes!!! I'm against suicide...)

**MikeReid** · 11-03-2002, 04:03 PM

Originally posted by windwords7
Bump. First cycle that will be sufficent.

How many times do we need to see that the person who does just one PH/PS and the one who does 3 still gain the same in the end.

The question when adding in other PH/PS substances is: what will the other substance provide besides gains (like 4AD and it libido and or lethargy benefit). Otherwise there is no reason to to do them all at the same time.

Do you think I should start at 300mg and see how I handle it and gradually increase the dose when required or should I start straight at 600mg. I am considering doing a 2weeks on,4weeks off,2weeks on, cycle.

**MikeReid** · 11-03-2002, 04:06 PM

Thats if I did a cycle of just 1,4-andro.

**dio** · 11-03-2002, 04:12 PM

Originally posted by MikeReid
Do you think I should start at 300mg and see how I handle it and gradually increase the dose when required or should I start straight at 600mg. I am considering doing a 2weeks on,4weeks off,2weeks on, cycle.

I'd recommend using at least 400mg/day. I'd also recommend that you do a straight cycle as opposed to a 2 weeks on. 1,4 is not really strong enough to yield desirable results on a 2 week cycle IMO. You should really try for 4-6 weeks.

**windwords7** · 11-03-2002, 04:15 PM

Originally posted by MikeReid
Do you think I should start at 300mg and see how I handle it and gradually increase the dose when required or should I start straight at 600mg. I am considering doing a 2weeks on,4weeks off,2weeks on, cycle.

Yeah, I would go with 600mg a day min IMO. Also, like dio, with 1, 4 Andro go at least 4 weeks. With things like 1T or 1AD you can achieve some good sucess with just 2 week cycles.

**MikeReid** · 11-03-2002, 05:28 PM

Originally posted by dio
I'd recommend using at least 400mg/day. I'd also recommend that you do a straight cycle as opposed to a 2 weeks on. 1,4 is not really strong enough to yield desirable results on a 2 week cycle IMO. You should really try for 4-6 weeks.

Thanks, I couldn't find anywhere that stated how long it takes for Boldenone to take affect. Think I'll shot for a 4 week cycle starting at 400mg a day. Should I do 4x100g or 2x100&1x200mg?

I am going to be using Molecular Nutrition Boldenone.

**dio** · 11-03-2002, 07:45 PM

I realize that it's not cheap, but if you're only doing 4 weeks you should probably up your dose. I can't say for sure what the difference would be, but you might be disappointed with your results. Or you could always extend to 6 weeks.

As far as spreading the doses goes: I tried it spaced out evenly and with doubling up on pills. If you're only taking 400mg you might as well spread it out, cause you really can't double up an get good coverage. Otherwise at 600mg, I'd take 200mg 3x per day.

**windwords7** · 11-03-2002, 07:57 PM

Or 300mg 3 times a day

**MikeReid** · 11-04-2002, 12:34 AM

I'm not really too concerned about the price. I have decided to start the cycle(4-6weeks) off at 600mg(I want the most out of the cycle and as I won't be stacking it with anything this will be an ok dose to take).
I will take it 3x200mg a day to start and when I feel like I need to "up" my dose I will go to 4x200mg to spread out the dose as much as possible. If I need to up the dose past that I will do 4x300mg(as 1fasts Boldenone is cheaper).

Could someone also please tell me how does Boldenone affect ones libido? Not really a key issue but I couldn't find it in any articles or by doing a search and I would like to know before I start.

Also is there anything that you guys have experienced on your cycles that you have not seen in any articles?

**Blacksmith** · 11-04-2002, 05:59 AM

Originally posted by MikeReid
I am leaning towards either stack 1 or 3 at the moment.

Stack 1:
1,4-ANDRO 300mg
1-AD 300mg
4-AD 600mg

I'll be doing this coming up shortly,
but I will be using transdermal 1-Test instead of the 1AD.
Boldione from molecular and erogpharm androspray.

**windwords7** · 11-04-2002, 06:01 AM

Originally posted by Blacksmith
I'll be doing this coming up shortly,
but I will be using transdermal 1-Test instead of the 1AD.
Boldione from molecular and erogpharm androspray.

Hey Smith, What will your daily dosage be of the 1, 4 and in how many doses?

**dio** · 11-04-2002, 06:37 AM

Originally posted by windwords7
Or 300mg 3 times a day

What, are you trying to start a revolution

**dio** · 11-04-2002, 06:39 AM

Originally posted by MikeReid

Could someone also please tell me how does Boldenone affect ones libido? Not really a key issue but I couldn't find it in any articles or by doing a search and I would like to know before I start.

Also is there anything that you guys have experienced on your cycles that you have not seen in any articles?

I really wouldn't recommend going higher than 600mg/day on your first cycle. You really don't leave room for later expansion that way.

As far as your other questions go, I posted detailed results of my Boldione use (including libido effects) under the thread "8 weeks of boldione"

**Blacksmith** · 11-04-2002, 07:13 AM

Originally posted by windwords7
What will your daily dosage be of the 1, 4 and in how many doses?

Hey bro...

I'll likely start out around 400 mg spaced evenly throughout the day.

It really depends on how the entire combination effects me.

Any suggestions on augmentation of the stack are appreciated.

**Flee Priest** · 11-04-2002, 08:58 AM

Originally posted by dio
I really wouldn't recommend going higher than 600mg/day on your first cycle. You really don't leave room for later expansion that way.

As far as your other questions go, I posted detailed results of my Boldione use (including libido effects) under the thread "8 weeks of boldione"

So, do I got this part right; EVRYBODY here agrees about the concept that one needs room for later expansion? (To fight the fact that our gains always will generally slow down as we fight our way through the calendar..?)

And..is there thruth in this: due to the limited speed you can grow, using a stack with many products on your first cycle will not result in any /or significantly better total gain than for example leaving out the 1.4 andro?

(like when using ONE+ alone, if my biological memory card isnt playing games with me, I do recall people had even better results with ONE+ than the Trenabol-X (which, as we know, includes 1,4 )

I realize this is a 1,4 thread......bear with me.. I started ONE+ last week, but now I'm a bit tempted adding some 1.4..... =)

**dio** · 11-04-2002, 10:24 AM

IMO the goal for the first cycle should be to make good gains using as little as possible. Otherwise you reach the point of deminishing returns much faster.

One+ is powerful enough that you should not add anything to it, especially if it's your first time using it. For someone with more experience, like Blacksmith, it might make sense to add more to the stack. Keep in mind that this is further than down the line.

Most people end overthinking and overcomplicating their PH/steroid stacks.

As a side not, TX probably was not as effective due to it's inferiro delivery system.

**MikeReid** · 11-04-2002, 10:29 AM

Originally posted by Flee Priest
So, do I got this part right; EVRYBODY here agrees about the concept that one needs room for later expansion? (To fight the fact that our gains always will generally slow down as we fight our way through the calendar..?)

And..is there thruth in this: due to the limited speed you can grow, using a stack with many products on your first cycle will not result in any /or significantly better total gain than for example leaving out the 1.4 andro?

(like when using ONE+ alone, if my biological memory card isnt playing games with me, I do recall people had even better results with ONE+ than the Trenabol-X (which, as we know, includes 1,4 )

I realize this is a 1,4 thread......bear with me.. I started ONE+ last week, but now I'm a bit tempted adding some 1.4..... =)

Its an interesting point. I though that stack 1 may be too harsh for a first cycle but thought a variety of ph's would increase gains. I kept the doses releativly low since my body has not "experienced" phs before I thought gains would come easier. It seems that the same concept is true for the former as with the latter, that one ph is enough for a first cycle.

**MikeReid** · 11-04-2002, 10:30 AM

Originally posted by dio
I really wouldn't recommend going higher than 600mg/day on your first cycle. You really don't leave room for later expansion that way.

As far as your other questions go, I posted detailed results of my Boldione use (including libido effects) under the thread "8 weeks of boldione"

Thanks for all your help bro, I've read the first page and look forward to reading the rest.

**dio** · 11-04-2002, 10:37 AM

Originally posted by MikeReid
Thanks for all your help bro, I've read the first page and look forward to reading the rest.

Glad to help

Be sure to let us know how it goes.

**John Benz** · 11-04-2002, 10:52 AM

Originally posted by windwords7
Or 300mg 3 times a day

William Llewellyn states that it is non productive to go over 600 mgs regardless of bodyweight.

MikeReid , how old are you?

**windwords7** · 11-04-2002, 10:55 AM

Originally posted by John Benz
William Llewellyn states that it is non productive to go over 600 mgs regardless of bodyweight.

MikeReid , how old are you?

I would be curious to hear why?

**MikeReid** · 11-04-2002, 11:03 AM

I'm almost 20 and have been training for 3 years. I haven't grown (height-wise) at in about a year and feel that I am mature and knowledgeable enough about nutrition/supplements and training to use ph.

Many may flame me but I feel I know my body well enough, I don't drink/smoke/do drugs or even eat fast food.

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