training while being sore is not good : another myth?

[Deejay_Spike]

Many people say that training under the influence of Delayed Onset Muscle Soreness (DOMS) is not good and will harm your progress. many people even say that the hormonal responses due to training under the influence of DOMS will be altered (e.g. say that Cortisol levels will be much higher then). but is it?

following research from PudMed suggests something different.

Hormonal responses to a resistance exercise performed under the influence of delayed onset muscle soreness.

Pullinen T, Mero A, Huttunen P, Pakarinen A, Komi PV.

Department of Biology of Physical Activity, Neuromuscular Research Center, University of Jyvaskyla, Finland. tpulline@pallo.jyu.fi

Hormonal responses to an unaccustomed knee-extension exercise (E1; 5 times 10 repetitions with 40% load of 1RM [1 repetition maximum] followed by 2 sets until exhaustion) were compared in 6 men with the corresponding responses to an identical exercise performed 2 days later under the influence of delayed onset muscle soreness (DOMS) (E2). Both exercises were performed with a variable-resistance machine causing exhaustion with significantly fewer repetitions than a normal constant-resistance knee-extension device does. The E1 induced DOMS as expected, but the 1RM, the total work done, and the repetition number and frequency were not different in the 2 exercises. In the 2 sets to failure, the mean repetition number varied between 17 and 25. The exercise-induced norepinephrine, epinephrine, testosterone, cortisol (COR), and growth hormone (GH) increases were similar in the 2 exercises, although the overall level of COR and GH, including the preexercise concentrations, tended to decline in the second exercise. The results may thus suggest that the hormonal response to resistance exercise is not significantly altered when performed soon after an unaccustomed exercise bout leading to DOMS.

PMID: 12173952 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

[TeenWesternUSA]

why does everybody place their deadlift, squat, and bench? Is this powerlifting or bodybuilding?

To answer your question, dont work out when you are sore. It will break down you muscels further and wont allow them time to grow. That is a good way to lose muscle mass.

[FATHER FLEX]

Originally posted by TeenWesternUSA
why does everybody place their deadlift, squat, and bench? Is this powerlifting or bodybuilding?

To answer your question, dont work out when you are sore. It will break down you muscels further and wont allow them time to grow. That is a good way to lose muscle mass.

LOL you think everything can be solved in 5 seconds...lol..yeah I saw some other post of yours to.

[Deejay_Spike]

Originally posted by TeenWesternUSA
why does everybody place their deadlift, squat, and bench? Is this powerlifting or bodybuilding?

To answer your question, dont work out when you are sore. It will break down you muscels further and wont allow them time to grow. That is a good way to lose muscle mass.

i for one put them in my signature because i'm a powerlifter. but i post a bit everywhere because i'm very interested in strength training in general, and strength training aimed at inducing hypertrophy also.

i didn't really post a question. i wanted to start the discussion about this matter.

to respond to you. i'll go even further. do NOT, or at least try not to get sore.

I believe DOMS (even tho we don't know what causes it) will only slow down recovery.

but i have trained while being sore in the past (the very next day with light to very light intensity, and a few days later -usu. 4- with the same intensity) and i don't think my progress was harmed by it. even more, training the very next day with light to very light intensity and rather high volume actually helped me recover faster! but i agree not to do the second one too often.

but a this research suggests, the hormonal response to resistance exercise is not significantly altered when performed soon after an unaccustomed exercise bout leading to DOMS.

so one thing we know for sure. your body does not respond differently, even under the influence of DOMS. but i'd like to see the long term effect of this.

[FATHER FLEX]

Deejay I am sorry for my ignorance in your sport, but how often do powerlfters work on their bench press, deadlift, and squat on a weekly basis.

[Deejay_Spike]

Originally posted by FATHER FLEX
Deejay I am sorry for my ignorance in your sport, but how often do powerlfters work on their bench press, deadlift, and squat on a weekly basis.

well this can really change from one training strategy to another.

Some russian routines have their pupils work the big three sometimes up to 8 times a week.

then you have the more popular Westside Barbell strategy, that has you train your main lifts 4 times a week, with 50% of actual benching/squatting/deadlifting.

my strategy is in between. i train the big three 3 to 4 times a week, but in contrast to WSB i do my main lifts each time, but with chaning order and intensity/volume

[Inzah Dude]

Originally posted by FATHER FLEX
Deejay I am sorry for my ignorance in your sport, but how often do powerlfters work on their bench press, deadlift, and squat on a weekly basis.

It depends on how you train. If you train westside, you train them each twice a week(ME and DE for each exercise) except for deadlift you don't train as often. If you train 3x3 then you train Bench/Squat/Deadlift all 3 times a week. Some programs you just train each once a week.

[Deejay_Spike]

Originally posted by Inzah Dude
It depends on how you train. If you train westside, you train them each twice a week(ME and DE for each exercise) except for deadlift you don't train as often. If you train 3x3 then you train Bench/Squat/Deadlift all 3 times a week. Some programs you just train each once a week.

i think he refers to working ON them, and not necesseraly actually benching/deadlifting/squatting

and westside has also the GPP and extra workouts aimed at strengthening some specific bodyparts, which in turn can be seen as working on a certain lift.

[FATHER FLEX]

Asking because I might do some powerlifting some time in the near future. I am taking notes guys

[Travis Stenersn]

Similiar studies to the one you posted are what Bryan Haycock has based his Hypertrophy Specific Training program on.

I'm giving it a shot right now and have just finished the first two week microcycle. I like it thus far, maybe not as much as the type of training I regularily do (moderate volume, lots of big lifts), but it's a change and that's whats important. I'll see how it works out, if it does induce any hypertrophy.

I sorta agree with you that DOMS might not be optimal to induce, but I don't think it's bad if you do experience it. Some professions and most sports would probably benefit from not experiencing any DOMS from their training, however.

[John Carver]

My friend did HST , said he liked it a lot Travis. If you want to discuss it with him it's Gmav, I think he's still doing it, he's pretty knowledgeable on it too. The forums for HST are really advanced also. Good stuff on there.

[Travis Stenersn]

Thanks for the suggestion John!

If I have any questions maybe I'll ask Gmav.