Soy: Potential Effects on Hormone Levels in Men

[Androgenic]

That's a great question. Not so easy to elucidate, but let's give it a go. Dinoiii / Dana is more of an expert in steroid chemistry and is up on soy as well and may be better at giving you an answer here.

And I can answer V4lu3s' doubt of populational/epidiomological data. Where he is, well, wrong. So let's do both.
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Circulating levels of isoflavones and markers of 5α-reductase activity are higher in japanese compared with New Zealand males : What is the role of circulating steroids in prostate disease?
Auteur(s) / Author(s)
LEWIS J. G. (1) ; NAKAJIN S. (2) ; OHNO S. (2) ; WARNOCK A. (3) ; FLORKOWSKI C. M. (1) ; ELDER P. A. (1) ;
Affiliation(s) du ou des auteurs / Author(s) Affiliation(s)
(1) Steroid & Immunobiochemistry Laboratory, Canterbury Health Laboratories, P.O. Box 151, Christchurch 8001, NOUVELLE-ZELANDE
(2) Department of Biochemistry, Hoshi University School of Pharmacy and Pharmaceutical Sciences, Tokyo, JAPON
(3) Waiouru Military Base, Waiouru, NOUVELLE-ZELANDE

R?sum? / Abstract
Epidemiological evidence implicates dietary isoflavone intake as protective against prostate disease. A putative mechanism is attenuated circulating androgen levels in male populations consuming an isoflavone rich diet. We investigated this hypothesis by collecting plasma from 60 Japanese and 60 New Zealand males aged between 21 and 31 years each consuming their traditional diets. We measured plasma testosterone, dihydrotestosterone (DHT), androstenedione, dehydroepiandrosterone sulfate (DHEAS), the combined levels of androsterone sulfate and epiandrosterone sulfate (AoS/epiAoS), sex hormone-binding globulin, and cortisol and corticosteroid-binding globulin as well as the isoflavones genistein and equol. Plasma genistein and equol levels were several times higher in Japanese males as would be expected from an isoflavone rich diet. However, androstenedione, DHEAS, calculated free testosterone and paradoxically markers of 5α-reductase, DHT and AoS/epiAoS were all also significantly higher in Japanese rather than the New Zealand male counterparts. All other comparisons were not significant. Plasma DHT and DHEAS correlated positively with plasma equol and plasma AoS/epiAoS correlated positively with genistein levels. Taken together the results suggest that, rather than reduced levels of steroidogenesis, Japanese males may have increased 5α-reductase activity and possibly altered 17β OH steroid dehydrogenase activity. Significantly the positive association between isoflavones levels and 5α-steroids is counter-intuitive to isoflavone intake offering prostate protection, unless this is postulated to occur through other mechanisms.

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So what does this mean. We're not seeing prostate protection via reduction of DHT, but rather an increase. Also in the estrogens. What's decreasing in Japanese males? Glad, you asked Androstenedione, DHEA sulfate, and Free Test levels...all androgenic hormones. This is in 21-31 year old males. And this is the rub, that still holds up with all my theories, they have high hormone levels...nowhere near andropause. It makes sense why we'd see an inverse effect with the DHT here than when circulating endogenous hormones are much lower when you are older.

So, the endocrine disruption as far as using a soy protein isolate, while on steroids is difficult to fully assess without knowing which ones and the mechanism of action. I think given exogenous testosterone would naturally lower endogenous test. production you'd run in to an environment where the cascade is naturally disrupted and this would only augment that issue. Hence, sides would be greater in some cases. Although, again, depending on the specific chemical it may nullify some sides, but possibly decrease those desired gains/strength. This is regarding therapeutic to more legitimately safe dosing patterns of AAS.

Ultimately, if your dosing is very high (of AAS), there's little that one could do to interfere with its targeted effects, but then health isn't much of a concern at that point either.

Sometimes, I step away for a while and then I come back and see my posts and think...wow...this guy is really good. I actually learn something from my old posts, which is both cool and sad. This is a good thread though.

[94Sip]

Sometimes, I step away for a while and then I come back and see my posts and think...wow...this guy is really good. I actually learn something from my old posts, which is both cool and sad. This is a good thread though.

Here is an article by Patrick Arnold that I think states a little more clearly the role of DHT and prostate issues. It is another site but still relavent to the above post.

http://www.mesomorphosis.com/articles/arnold/dht.htm

[unsoberx]

Hello, from my own personal experience by ingesting soy protein, i didn't have a decrease in libido, sex-drive, or an increase in female qualities in my body. However i *did* notice a sort of puffiness, like a facial-bloating around my nose and face, and in fact if i took more soy my stomach would bloat. So i suspect that soy protein decreases testosterone-levels in men which lead to water-retention and weight-gain. That's why i had to quit eating soy protein

unsoberx

i hate soy, it seems to give me gyno related symptoms. my nipps itch. everyone's always asking me if i want some of their soy milk, or tofu... yuck no way.

[unsoberx]

Hey my friend, but there are millions of people who eat pizza and don't gain an ounce, but that doesn't mean that people with the Syndrome X (people with very slow metabolic rates) can eat a lot of pizzas and not gain weight. So i suspect that the negative effects on soy doesn't affect everybody but some people indeed, who are prone to be allergic to soy

unsoberx

I have a hard time believing that soy caused it. There are millions of people that eat crazy ammounts of soy without getting gyno. And there is no human estrogen in soy. The structure of the soy phytoestrogen has some limited interaction in the human body, but there is no evidence of anything close to gyno from soy. I cannot put in any other way than plant hormones cannot replace human hormones. And the same goes for many animal hormones, such as growth hormone.

[damnglass]

Hey my friend, but there are millions of people who eat pizza and don't gain an ounce, but that doesn't mean that people with the Syndrome X (people with very slow metabolic rates) can eat a lot of pizzas and not gain weight. So i suspect that the negative effects on soy doesn't affect everybody but some people indeed, who are prone to be allergic to soy

unsoberx

it depends on how high your horomone levels are in the beginning so yes some peopple can get away with soy while others will run far far away,i had high test as a kid which messed up my hair from dht levels and gave me gyno when the high test converted to estrogyn ,so now everyone thinks i did steroids,gave me the incentive to do pro horomones:P thats when i dont worry about soy.

[ElMariachi]

I'm still trying to figure out why all the musclemags are pimping out soy, but I have a sinking suspicion that it just MIGHT have something to do with many supplement companies adding or increase soy in their protein/gainer formula's due to the high cost of milk proteins.

[unsoberx]

Hello, so i quit takin soy protein powder, and i will replace that scoop of soy protein, with a scoop of whey protein which doesn't give me that bloating effect of soy protein. I've noticed that i exercised really hard, walked religiously every day for 55 minutes, got hungry and starved, and i didn't lose weight. So i realized it was soy protein which was slowing down my metabolism

unsoberx

it depends on how high your horomone levels are in the beginning so yes some peopple can get away with soy while others will run far far away,i had high test as a kid which messed up my hair from dht levels and gave me gyno when the high test converted to estrogyn ,so now everyone thinks i did steroids,gave me the incentive to do pro horomones:P thats when i dont worry about soy.

[unsoberx]

Hello, yeah indeed, i think soy protein is being advertised by many corporations as good even though it might not be good for bodybuilders. I think that many scientific studies out there are also lobbied by soy protein corporations

unsoberx

I'm still trying to figure out why all the musclemags are pimping out soy, but I have a sinking suspicion that it just MIGHT have something to do with many supplement companies adding or increase soy in their protein/gainer formula's due to the high cost of milk proteins.

[DRP7]

bump to this thread of fine scientific discussion.

[RMA08]

Does all soy products affect testerone like soy protein,soybean oil,soy flour.soy lecitin or which ones do and which ones should we stay away from.

[pamunmawn]

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[MarkGilbert]

Study #7

Activation of skeletal muscle protein breakdown following consumption of soyabean protein in pigs.

Lohrke B, Saggau E, Schadereit R, Beyer M, Bellmann O, Kuhla S, Hagemeister H.




Research Institute for Biology of Farm Animals, Dummerstorf-Rostock, Department of Animal Nutrition, Germany. loehrke@fbn-dummerstorf.de.

Diets with protein of inferior quality may increase protein breakdown in skeletal muscle but the experimental results are inconsistent. To elucidate the relationship, pigs were fed isoenergetic and isonitrogenous diets based on soyabean-protein isolate or casein for 15 weeks, with four to six animals per group. A higher plasma level of urea (2.5-fold the casein group value, P = 0.01), higher urinary N excretion (2.1-fold the casein group value, P = 0.01), a postabsorptive rise in the plasma levels of urea, 3-methylhistidine and isoleucine in soyabean protein-fed pigs suggested recruitment of circulatory amino acids by protein breakdown in peripheral tissues. Significant differences between dietary groups were detected in lyso****l and ATP-dependent proteolytic activities in the semimembranosus muscle of food-deprived pigs. A higher concentration of cathepsin B protein was found, corresponding to a rise in the cathepsin B activity, in response to dietary soyabean protein. Muscle ATP-stimulated proteolytical activity was 1.6-fold the casein group value (P = 0.03). A transient rise in the level of cortisol (2.9-times the casein group value, P = 0.02) occurred in the postprandial phase only in the soyabean group. These data suggest that the inferior quality of dietary soyabean protein induces hormonally-mediated upregulation of muscle protein breakdown for recruitment of circulatory amino acids in a postabsorptive state.

I think the bottom line here is that excess soy consumption has definitely been shown to cause gyno in susceptible men. Also, many pediatric organizations suggest that soy-based formulas only be used for male babies as a last resort. Further, there couldn't be so many studies showing some kind of alteration in male hormone levels unless there were some kind of effect going on. Probably most men could eat a serving of soy protein daily without any problems but it may somewhat alter the testosterone to estrogen ratio in a way that is not conducive to building muscle. If, however, you are susceptible to the effects, you might get side effects (such as in a worst-case scenario, gyno) and you'd very likely compromise your muscle and performance enhancing goals.