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  1. #1
    Registered User Griff008's Avatar
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    Supplements for vascularity

    Hey I was wondering if there were any natural supplements, like herbs etc.. you can take to make me more vascular or increase the size of my veins?? This may be a dumb question?? but just wondering?? Any help is greatly appreciated.
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  2. #2
    i'm just doin what i do E_B_Nation's Avatar
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    i've gotten good vascularity from bulk cee.
    "I believe that everything you do bad comes back to you. so everything that i do that's bad, i'm going to suffer for it. but in my heart, i believe what i'm doing is right. so i feel like i'm going to heaven."
    - Tupac Shakur, june 1996


    My Oral Turinadrol/WinZtrol/Retain cycle here:

    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?p=12553752#post12553752
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  3. #3
    Bodybuilder For Life! Pure-Natural's Avatar
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    Flush Niacin
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  4. #4
    Busy Dude Dr.Dave1's Avatar
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    Nitric oxide, see BB.coms write-up http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/no2.html
    Disclaimer: While I have an M.D. the views I express are not to be taken as medical advice under any circumstances. Please check with your own doctor if you want medical advice as he/she has access to your info and can provide the most accurate advice.


    www.pubmed.gov . . . gotta love it
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  5. #5
    Up And Out cakedonkey's Avatar
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    Supplement with <10% bodyfat for some pretty crazy vascularity.
    SAN Nutrition
    sann.net / pumpedmag.com / starmarklabs.com
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  6. #6
    veritas vos liberabit NumberTwentyTwo's Avatar
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    arginine

    cnidium?

    glycerol

    vanadyl sulfate (in high doses, but it can be toxic in high doses)

    citrilline malate (at least 7g a day)

    peronally ive never fealt pumps from creatine
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  7. #7
    Almost Positive NATHAN518's Avatar
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    This one is easy for me...i have seen vascularity with GlycerGrow or bulk GMS that blows NO supps out of the water
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  8. #8
    Registered User Griff008's Avatar
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    where do i get glycer grow or bulk GMS?? or any of the other supplements posted??
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  9. #9
    Busy Dude Dr.Dave1's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Griff008
    where do i get glycer grow or bulk GMS?? or any of the other supplements posted??
    go to the BB.com store and search for them by name or category
    Disclaimer: While I have an M.D. the views I express are not to be taken as medical advice under any circumstances. Please check with your own doctor if you want medical advice as he/she has access to your info and can provide the most accurate advice.


    www.pubmed.gov . . . gotta love it
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  10. #10
    Registered User Griff008's Avatar
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    Can I buy any of them at walmart or GNC?
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  11. #11
    in10city stalker Madevilz's Avatar
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    You can find NO products at GNC. But you'll be overpaying.

    What body fat % are you?
    ☆ ☆ QUEBEC CREW ☆ ☆
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  12. #12
    Registered User Griff008's Avatar
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    Iam 5"7 175 lbs, 10 % body fat but iam tryin to bulk i dont really wanna diet right now if thats what u had in mind.
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  13. #13
    nom nom nom deserusan's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by NATHAN518
    This one is easy for me...i have seen vascularity with GlycerGrow or bulk GMS that blows NO supps out of the water
    So does cutting off the circulation to the given appendage. It doesn't mean it is good for you or has any other effect despite a purely cosmetic one. Why do you think GMS is used in topical cosmetics? I'd consider a NO supplement becuase at least their main ingredient, arginine, has a wealth of science backing it.
    "I just use my muscles as a conversation piece, like someone walking a cheetah down 42nd Street." - Arnold Schwarzenegger

    Heretic....
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  14. #14
    Almost Positive NATHAN518's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by deserusan
    So does cutting of the circulation to the given appendage. It doesn't mean it is good for you or has any other effect despite a purely cosmetic one. Why do you think GMS is used in topical cosmetics? I'd consider a NO supplement becuase at least their main ingredient, arginine, has a wealth of science backing it.
    Here we go again...i don't want to start another GMS science debate...that is not for me. However, I will say that the anecdotal evidence is there. He asked for a supplement that improved vascularity, and I answered the question. In addition, I will say that most people have seen more than just "cosmetic" effects from both GG and bulk GMS. If you want to see the science, talk to someone from CL, thats not my thing. If anecdotal evidence is good enough for you, then GMS is very effective at improving vascularity...
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  15. #15
    nom nom nom deserusan's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by NATHAN518
    Here we go again...i don't want to start another GMS science debate...that is not for me. However, I will say that the anecdotal evidence is there. He asked for a supplement that improved vascularity, and I answered the question. In addition, I will say that most people have seen more than just "cosmetic" effects from both GG and bulk GMS. If you want to see the science, talk to someone from CL, thats not my thing. If anecdotal evidence is good enough for you, then GMS is very effective at improving vascularity...
    I have......it is just funny that no one is doing a stand alone review of GMS and it always stacked with a proven supplement like creatine. Yes, GMS does increase fluid retention in cells due to its hygroscopic abilities, but it does nothing more. For this same reason it is used in cosmetics to reduce fine lines by swelling the top layers of the skin. I just think it is sad kids are getting a false sense of acheivement in the gym because they are drinking a ton of water and taking GMS to swell their muscles instead of actually putting the hard work into putting mass on by growing them. There is a huge difference. I have known a lot of natural pro bodybuilders and they laugh when it comes to GMS. It is only used precontest if you are looking flat.
    "I just use my muscles as a conversation piece, like someone walking a cheetah down 42nd Street." - Arnold Schwarzenegger

    Heretic....
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  16. #16
    Registered User Tkenshin's Avatar
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    best cheapest NO is di-l-arginine malate in bulk powder.
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    The infamous cre-ethyl thunder and arginine/ornthine stack...

    words cannot describe the feeling your muscles get when on this stack.
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  18. #18
    Almost Positive NATHAN518's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by deserusan
    I have......it is just funny that no one is doing a stand alone review of GMS and it always stacked with a proven supplement like creatine. Yes, GMS does increase fluid retention in cells due to its hygroscopic abilities, but it does nothing more. For this same reason it is used in cosmetics to reduce fine lines by swelling the top layers of the skin. I just think it is sad kids are getting a false sense of acheivement in the gym because they are drinking a ton of water and taking GMS to swell their muscles instead of actually putting the hard work into putting mass on by growing them. There is a huge difference. I have known a lot of natural pro bodybuilders and they laugh when it comes to GMS. It is only used precontest if you are looking flat.
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=332329

    I think many would argue that cell volumization, which is clearly an effect of GMS, is desirable as it creates an anabolic response...
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  19. #19
    nom nom nom deserusan's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Tkenshin
    best cheapest NO is di-l-arginine malate in bulk powder.
    Bingo! or bulk AAkg with bulk OKG. These are all proven effective stand alone and have a wealth of science backing them.
    "I just use my muscles as a conversation piece, like someone walking a cheetah down 42nd Street." - Arnold Schwarzenegger

    Heretic....
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  20. #20
    nom nom nom deserusan's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by NATHAN518
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=332329

    I think many would argue that cell volumization, which is clearly an effect of GMS, is desirable as it creates an anabolic response...
    It's also funny that link is quoting information by a company rep currently selling the only stand alone GMS product out there. Ever read between the lines? Anabolic response........i'd like to see some science backing this. Here's your opportunity so please quote someone other than someone with a stake in GMS sales!
    "I just use my muscles as a conversation piece, like someone walking a cheetah down 42nd Street." - Arnold Schwarzenegger

    Heretic....
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  21. #21
    Up And Out cakedonkey's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by deserusan
    It's also funny that link is quoting information by a company rep currently selling the only stand alone GMS product out there. Ever read between the lines? Anabolic response........i'd like to see some science backing this. Here's your opportunity so please quote someone other than someone with a stake in GMS sales!
    I believe that post was written long before pu12 was affiliated with Controleld Labs. Also, many others agree (Twin Peak, for one) that a "hydrated cell is an anabolic cell". So, just something to think about.

    Whether GMS is the real deal or not, I cannot say for sure, but I did get some pretty notable pumps from Thunder which has GMS in it.
    SAN Nutrition
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  22. #22
    Almost Positive NATHAN518's Avatar
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    Read the whole thread....not all the posts are by pu...as a matter of fact the 2nd one is an article by John Berardi...they are posted by pu, but he did not write them all...
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  23. #23
    nom nom nom deserusan's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by cakedonkey
    I believe that post was written long before pu12 was affiliated with Controleld Labs. Also, many others agree (Twin Peak, for one) that a "hydrated cell is an anabolic cell". So, just something to think about.

    Whether GMS is the real deal or not, I cannot say for sure, but I did get some pretty notable pumps from Thunder which has GMS in it.
    I'm not doubting anything you are saying except relating GMS to making a cell more anabolic. Yes, a well hydrated cell is more anabolic in a very general sense, but if the hydration is to due to an extremely hygroscopic compound like GMS then you actually need excess water to promote healthy cell function. Why do you think its recommend you drink so much water with GMS? It's so your cells don't get dehydrated from the GMS molecule attracting H20 molecules to itself instead of allowing them to be a part of normal cell activity.
    "I just use my muscles as a conversation piece, like someone walking a cheetah down 42nd Street." - Arnold Schwarzenegger

    Heretic....
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    The best way to get more vascular is not a supplement at all, if you want more vascularity, get leaner.

    But why do you want more vascularity?
    Rep system sucks, we all agree, the only ones who really use it are idiots who think it makes a difference
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    Originally Posted by Rippd
    The best way to get more vascular is not a supplement at all, if you want more vascularity, get leaner.

    But why do you want more vascularity?
    This works too without wasting any money!
    "I just use my muscles as a conversation piece, like someone walking a cheetah down 42nd Street." - Arnold Schwarzenegger

    Heretic....
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    Originally Posted by NATHAN518
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=332329

    I think many would argue that cell volumization, which is clearly an effect of GMS, is desirable as it creates an anabolic response...
    A volumized cell does not equate to growth.
    Rep system sucks, we all agree, the only ones who really use it are idiots who think it makes a difference
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    Originally Posted by NATHAN518
    Read the whole thread....not all the posts are by pu...as a matter of fact the 2nd one is an article by John Berardi...they are posted by pu, but he did not write them all...
    Yes....and GMS is not mentioned once nor are any of it's derivatives such as glycerine, etc. No one is doubting hydration is important here.
    "I just use my muscles as a conversation piece, like someone walking a cheetah down 42nd Street." - Arnold Schwarzenegger

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    You are right, it does not mention GMS specifically. It refers to cell volumization caused by creatine. However, you concede that supplementation with GMS also causes water retention in the cells...you are missing the point...

    quote from the Berardi article...pay particular attention to this first paragraph...


    "In fact if that water weight happens to be intracellular fluid (which it often is) not only should that water weight lead to increased strength, but it should also lead to increased protein synthesis, increased muscle mass, and long term growth. Let me explain:

    What exactly is muscle growth? Hypertrophy vs Hyperplasia

    To begin, I'd like to cover the two main ways for an individual to increase overall muscle size. The first, muscle fiber hypertrophy, refers to the increase in the diameter of the individual muscle cells. The larger the cells, the larger the overall muscle, it's that simple. Muscle fiber hypertrophy = Big muscle fibers.

    The second, muscle fiber hyperplasia, refers to the splitting of muscle fibers in the interest of creating new fibers. Obviously this would be of interest to anyone pursuing size or strength due to the fact that and if an individual has more fibers, their overall size potential is greater. Therefore when looking at hyperplasia, Muscle fiber hyperplasia + Muscle fiber hypertrophy = Many big muscle fibers.

    At this point, I know that you're all supercharged to learn how to both make more fibers and to make them bigger, but I'm going to have to put the breaks on and be the bearer of bad news. The problem with hyperplasia is that no one really knows exactly how to promote it. Once we are born, some experts believe, muscle fiber number remains fixed for our lifetime. Therefore under normal circumstances muscle fiber hyperplasia seems nearly impossible.

    Interestingly, though, experts have begun to speculate that under abnormal circumstances hyperplasia can contribute to overall muscle growth. For starters, recreational or even moderately intense weight training will probably NOT do it. Unfortunately there has not even been any evidence that very intense weight training will promote hyperplasia. One proposed link to hyperplasia, though is anabolic steroid use. A recent article in the American College of Sports Medicine's Medicine and Science in Sport and Exercise found evidence for muscle fiber hyperplasia in anabolic steroid using powerlifters(1). This however, is pretty much the first evidence of a mechanism for hyperplasia in humans. The bottom line is that unless we are ready to boatload anabolic steroids into our systems, neither you nor I are going to be enjoying the benefits of muscle fiber hyperplasia any time soon. So what about hypertrophy? Well that, my friends, is a reality."
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    You cannot compare GMS to creatine. All this anecdotal evidence you speak of has been stacking the two!

    "Glycerol monostearate
    (Mono and Diglycerides)
    Chemical Formula: CH3(CH2)16COOCH2CHOHCH2OH
    <img src="http://sci-toys.com/ingredients/glycerol_monostearate.gif">
    Synonyms:
    Glyceryl stearate,
    Mono and Diglycerides
    Monostearin,
    Octadecanoic acid monoester with 1,2,3-propanetriol

    Description:
    White or cream colored waxy solid.

    Uses:
    Mono-glycerides are used as emulsifying agents in many products, such as baked goods, whipped cream, and ice cream. It is a fat that is missing two of its fatty acids. It is often used with di-glycerides, which are fats that are only missing one of their fatty acids. "
    http://sci-toys.com/ingredients/glyc...ostearate.html


    "Creatine:
    Chemical formula C4H9N3O2
    <img src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/ff/Creatine2.png/150px-Creatine2.png">

    Function
    In the muscles, a fraction of the total creatine binds to phosphate - forming creatine phosphate. The reaction is catalysed by creatine kinases, and the result is phosphocreatine (PCr). Phosphocreatine binds with ADP to convert it back to ATP, an important cellular energy source.

    There is scientific evidence that taking creatine supplements can marginally increase athletic performance in high-intensity anaerobic repetitive cycling sprints, but studies in swimmers and runners have been less than promising, possibly due to the weight gain. Ingesting creatine can increase the level of phosphocreatine in the muscles up to 20%. It must be noted creatine has no significant effect on aerobic exercise (Engelhardt et al, 1998).

    Some studies have shown that creatine supplementation increases both total and fat-free body mass, though it is difficult to say how much of this is due to the training effect. Since body mass gains of about 1 kg can occur in a week's time, several studies suggest that the gain is simply due to greater water retention inside the muscle cells. However, studies into the long-term effect of creatine supplementation suggest that body mass gains cannot be explained by increases in intracellular water alone. In the longer term, the increase in total body water is reported to be proportional to the weight gains, which means that the percentage of total body water is not significantly changed. The magnitude of the weight gains during training over a period of several weeks argue against the water-retention theory.
    "
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creatine
    Last edited by deserusan; 02-06-2006 at 11:25 PM.
    "I just use my muscles as a conversation piece, like someone walking a cheetah down 42nd Street." - Arnold Schwarzenegger

    Heretic....
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    I realize the two are completely different...I am just pointing to the fact that they share one thing in common...both creatine and GMS (even taurine) lead to increased cell volume which has in turn been linked to increased protein synthesis/decreased protein degradation end result of which is GROWTH

    http://www3.baylor.edu/HHPR/ESNL/pub.../MD37-1-00.pdf

    yet another study linking CELL VOLUMIZATION to MUCLE GROWTH...

    don't get caught up in the creatine/taurine/GMS/glutamine...these are just a few of the supplements linked to cell volumization. My point is that cell volumization (which you have conceded is achieved through GMS supplementation) leads to increased protein synthesis and ultimately growth
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