Technique question?

[Inthegrass]

Okay time for another stupid question.
This is about the lift its self.

Please correct me if I'm wrong here.
I've always thought that there were two ways to lift.

1) One way is with explosive power, everything you've got to the lift, but then always controled and slow on the negative (thousand and 3 count).
2) Then there is the controled slow positive lift (thousand & 3 count) with the controled (thousand & 5 count) negative.

Never locking out on either to keep constant tension on the muscles although I find it much harder to not lockout on the explosive lift.

The first is with the heaviest weight that you can handle and the second is with about 80% of what you can handle.

Am I right so far??

With both cases the reps are between 8-12 for three sets.
I've been working with both ways and the second version is where I get the real burn and where I feel it the most the next day. (Touch your finger to the muscle that was worked and it hurts kind of pain - love that!!)

What is the difference between the two in final results. Are the two methods conflicting one another in goals?
Or is it just a case where I haven't the faintest clue about any of it at all and I should just go back to my exercise balls. lmao at myself!!

Thanks
Jeff

[Inthegrass]

I was really hooing that I'd get a response to this.
I get really confused about all this stuff when I read another post on here about "maxing out a rep" and most say that it's not a good thing to do.
Isn't that what going to failure is all about??
There's just something I'm not quite getting here.
I'm hearing "lift big" is the key but then I hear you shouldn't max out???
How about the two different techniques that I describe?
The second method seems to give me the most burn and pump and after glow if you know what I mean. I'm just trying to figure if one is working of different types on muscle fibers than the other. That sort of thing.
I read a lot about the heavy weights that should be pushed but never that much on actual speed on which to do it.

Jeff

[Domkratos]

1. Newton's Second Law of motion: F = ma. The net force on an object is equal to the mass of the object multiplied by its acceleration.

2. Lifting 75-90% 1 RM weights in an explosive manner recruits the strongest fast twitch anaerobic fibers that compose the high-threshold motor-units (HTMU) and that are able to produce maximal force for a short period of time, actually, for just a few seconds.

3. Slow fibers can transform into fast fibers and vice versa.

The trick is finding a compromise: one the one hand one cannot max out 100% 1 RM real fast that is with maximum explosiveness, on the other hand, remember, there's 'Dark Side Of The Move', i.e. the 'negative', concentric part, where one is even 50+% stronger.

The Strength ('resistance') Training Theory is indeed complicated but, imo, irrespective of one's priorities, the Basics are quite simple:
Regularly and Progressively perform just a few Compound Lifts with the utmost Intensity (the poundage/BW is the key) with a fair amount of various auxiliary exercises using occasional 'De-loading' technique. That's all there is to it.
I hope this makes sense in English. Good luck!

[Hound53]

last session I did with a trainer he had me doing the explosive lifts, look in my body blogs it was a couple of weeks ago. For example he had me doing a controlled downward movement on the leg sled slowly lowering to the count of 5, then exploding to the top. He said this was not an all the time technique but to use it to get through plateus or maybe once every few weeks to "shock" the muscle group.

I also remember reading somewhere that the technique stimulates the fast twitch fibers and that even if you have so much weight on the bar that the muscle cannot actually move fast, just the fact that you are sending signals to it to move fast the fast twitch fibers will react.

[creb]

Weight trumps speed up to a certain point.

For example, Lifter A moves 200kg once. Lifter B moves 100kgs but has to move it 2 times to equal the workload of lifter A, and takes longer to reach 200kgs. Now, if both lifters are required to reach 1000kgs in the shortest space of time, who will get there first? If lifter A can only move 200kg 3 times before resting, but lifter B manages 10 reps (10 units of work), then B is more consistent.

Inconsistency is counter productive if you are trying to adapt to a given workload, but once a goal has been reached it's desirable to increase the intensity, rather than increase the speed at which units of work are done (talking in terms of seconds, hours, days, weeks or years). Why do 10x10@100kgs for a total of 10 tons, when you can do 5x10@200kgs in less time?

I think you should train very high intensity at points because it gives you a different sort of burn- a fried nervous system- and an improved ability to apply force at the lower end of the scale, where it counts.

[00maro00]

Well I'm no trainer or expert here at all, but I'll have a go at it.

I don't fully get the grasp of what your asking in the post but my first question would be whats your goal in your lifting...to be health to get biger to compete ect?

Going by the 2 examples you stated if your looking for healthy and maybe slow progressive gains in size then the 2 method will give you the best results. When you feel you have reached a stagnant period(for me it was every 9 to 12 weeks) you can incorperate the 1st example for say 2 to 3 weeks as your workout style to shock your body. Then comeback to the style you had been using(2nd example).

If your looking for raw strength and numbers then well 2nd example will be more benificial for your main style, but with decreased reps and heavier weight. Then when you arent gaining in strength give yourself a few weeks light weight with the 2nd style to losen up then back to the heavies.

They don't conflict with goals cause if used properly the 2 styles can actually compliment each other. Oh and I used to go on 2/1000 counts not 3 but everyone is different heh.

[greggamma]

Genetics, diet, do you have fast twitch muscles, hormone levels then how does your body respond to different exercise. It is for you to monitor closely and see how you respond best. Doing the explosive lifts gave me a hamstring tear, 8-12 x 4 sets gave me lactic acid pain. 5x5 gave me heavy weight, less pain, no burn and absolute fatigue. I do not get as much pump but I get consistent gains. 2 seconds up, hold/squeeze down 4 seconds. There are no answers for everyone just try and see what works best for you.

[batteryrequired]

Genetics, diet, do you have fast twitch muscles, hormone levels then how does your body respond to different exercise. It is for you to monitor closely and see how you respond best. Doing the explosive lifts gave me a hamstring tear, 8-12 x 4 sets gave me lactic acid pain. 5x5 gave me heavy weight, less pain, no burn and absolute fatigue. I do not get as much pump but I get consistent gains. 2 seconds up, hold/squeeze down 4 seconds. There are no answers for everyone just try and see what works best for you.

Best answer I have seen so far.

[greyhair]

Genetics, diet, do you have fast twitch muscles, hormone levels then how does your body respond to different exercise. It is for you to monitor closely and see how you respond best. Doing the explosive lifts gave me a hamstring tear, 8-12 x 4 sets gave me lactic acid pain. 5x5 gave me heavy weight, less pain, no burn and absolute fatigue. I do not get as much pump but I get consistent gains. 2 seconds up, hold/squeeze down 4 seconds. There are no answers for everyone just try and see what works best for you.

x2!
Especially the tear part.
IMHO, the older you get, the more risk you take with explosive lifting.
It seems to me that my muscles seem to recover OK, but connective tissue injury seems to last forever these days.

I'm particularly careful on the eccentric portion of the lift. There is always some temptation to let the weight down too fast and then brake hard at the bottom.
this puts very high impulse forces on the connective tissue.

[LR3]

a more accurate representation of the force you are working against would be the following:

F=mass X (acceleration) = mass X acceleration due to gravity + mass X acceleration due to additional applied force.

acceleration is the change in velocity--or change in 'speed' using layman's terms. so you only have acceleration when the speed is changing--so if you lift and a constant speed, there is no acceleration, other than at the top and bottom of the movements (changing direction, stopping and starting in a new direction would impart some acceleration to the object being moved).

Under normal conditions on earth, there is always the acceleration of gravity acting on the mass. Weight is mass X gravity. So regardless of how fast you move the object (bar-bell, dumb-bell or whatever you are moving) you have the weight force(=massXacceleration of gravity) that you are working with or against (working against it when moving the object upward vertically, working with when you lower the weight vertically), you always have to work against the force of the weight (weight) due to gravity acting on it.

In addition to mass x gravity (or weight), additional force applied to move the weight, will add to the acceleration. any acceleration applied when moving the weight upward (against gravity) will act to increase the amount of force applied--and any acceleration downward will reduce the amount of force applied to move the weight.

One thing to note is that if you are moving the object fast, either up or down, you are probably accelerating and when you get to the top or bottom of the range of motion and stop momentarily, there is likely some jerking motion (jerk is defined as a change in acceleration--like when you are accelerating in a car and suddenly it kicks into the next gear, there is a change in acceleration/jerk). you want to avoid jerking during the motion as much as possible, as it puts unnecessary stress and strain on the joints and soft tissues.

For the safest lifting, it is better to use slower, completely controlled motions throughout the lift. Any fast motion in which you do not have complete control of the weights (that is any motion were you cannot stop motion at any point in the movement) increases the chance of injury--which as many of us know, when we get much over 35, those injuries require significant recovery time (as in months, if not more).