dessicated liver...what's so great about it?

**slaps76** · 10-27-2002, 11:15 AM

I've been lifting weights for over 5 years, and have read numerous fitness/bodybuilding mags, articles online, and I surf this website quite often, although I don't post too much.

However, this is the ONLY place I've ever seen dessicated liver so highly touted as a great supplement. I've never even heard much about it until I came across so many people on this site who take it.

So, I looked it up in Bill Phillip's Supplement Review(I think 98), and he placed it under "Supplements that Suck" category, and even said he put liver tabs below branched amino acid pills. He basically said the liver is what waste goes thru, and you're taking freeze dried liver from cattle. Although it's full of vitamins and nutrients, the positives don't outweight the fact you are consuming liver, and you can get all the vitamins/minerals you need from a healthy diet, vitamins, meal replacements, ect.

So my question is, with all the technology today, the meal replacement powders, quality multi-vitamins, ect., what do you find so great about liver tabs? I drink 3 myoplex a day, and take vitamin C, E, Zinc, B6, and magnesium. What would I gain from taking liver tabs?

I know there have been studies that prove supplementing with creatine works, and it's proven you need protien to maximize gains....can anyone show any proof, besides opinion, that dessicated liver tabs actually help make fitness gains?

I think I'm leaning toward's ol' Bill on this one.

**Antonio** · 10-27-2002, 11:18 AM

Originally posted by slaps76
I've been lifting weights for over 5 years, and have read numerous fitness/bodybuilding mags, articles online, and I surf this website quite often, although I don't post too much.

However, this is the ONLY place I've ever seen dessicated liver so highly touted as a great supplement. I've never even heard much about it until I came across so many people on this site who take it.

So, I looked it up in Bill Phillip's Supplement Review(I think 98), and he placed it under "Supplements that Suck" category, and even said he put liver tabs below branched amino acid pills. He basically said the liver is what waste goes thru, and you're taking freeze dried liver from cattle. Although it's full of vitamins and nutrients, the positives don't outweight the fact you are consuming liver, and you can get all the vitamins/minerals you need from a healthy diet, vitamins, meal replacements, ect.

So my question is, with all the technology today, the meal replacement powders, quality multi-vitamins, ect., what do you find so great about liver tabs? I drink 3 myoplex a day, and take vitamin C, E, Zinc, B6, and magnesium. What would I gain from taking liver tabs?

I know there have been studies that prove supplementing with creatine works, and it's proven you need protien to maximize gains....can anyone show any proof, besides opinion, that dessicated liver tabs actually help make fitness gains?

I think I'm leaning toward's ol' Bill on this one.

People just think that because dessecated liver is very cheap it does not work. guess what? They are all wrong. Liver tabs are excellent if you are looking for serious mass. they are also good for cutting. they are rich in iron, aminiacids, vitamins, mostly B-complex vitamins....

Definately a must if you want to grow.

**Antonio** · 10-27-2002, 11:19 AM

BTW, where abouts in Boston do you live?

**slaps76** · 10-27-2002, 11:24 AM

Originally posted by Antonio
People just think that because dessecated liver is very cheap it does not work. guess what? They are all wrong. Liver tabs are excellent if you are looking for serious mass. they are also good for cutting. they are rich in iron, aminiacids, vitamins, mostly B-complex vitamins....

Definately a must if you want to grow.

I'm not saying they're bad because they're cheap...but how do you KNOW they do anything? Seriously, can you show one study that shows liver tabs make a difference. Why do you have to get iron, vitamin B, ect from liver? I get PLENTY of all of the above, without taking liver. More isn't always better. Example, taking 9 vitamin B pills at once isn't any more effective than taking the normal dose. I'm not trying to flame on anyone, I just don't understand, one bit, how supplementing with liver can do anymore than if you already have a nutrient-rich diet/supplementation program...and how it's going to make you grow.

**slaps76** · 10-27-2002, 11:24 AM

I actually just moved to Needham from Quincy.

**BigBenn** · 10-27-2002, 12:07 PM

Originally posted by slaps76
I'm not saying they're bad because they're cheap...but how do you KNOW they do anything? Seriously, can you show one study that shows liver tabs make a difference. Why do you have to get iron, vitamin B, ect from liver? I get PLENTY of all of the above, without taking liver. More isn't always better. Example, taking 9 vitamin B pills at once isn't any more effective than taking the normal dose. I'm not trying to flame on anyone, I just don't understand, one bit, how supplementing with liver can do anymore than if you already have a nutrient-rich diet/supplementation program...and how it's going to make you grow.

IMO Bill philips is a complete phucking idiot. I hate EAS and I hate him. The reason he doesn't like liver tabs is because EAS doesn't make them, its that simple. I actually have never used liver tabs but they make sence in concept.

**slaps76** · 10-27-2002, 12:28 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by BigBenn
[B]IMO Bill philips is a complete phucking idiot. I hate EAS and I hate him. The reason he doesn't like liver tabs is because EAS doesn't make them, its that simple ]...

Haha...no s##t, something about him is annoying. However, I still think he's a pretty smart guy, and a marketing genius, IMO. Although that supplement book is obviously biased towards EAS, he still gives alot of unbiased(I think) info about vitamins, minerals, different types of protien, ect. He actually praises other companies, and some of their products. Bashes muscletech, of course.

And no, EAS doesn't make liver tabs, and neither does most major companies that sell bodybuilding supplements...gee, think there's a reason?

**BigBenn** · 10-27-2002, 12:31 PM

Originally posted by slaps76

And no, EAS doesn't make liver tabs, and neither does most major companies that sell bodybuilding supplements...gee, think there's a reason? [/B]

yes, who wants to take liver tabs when they can have creatine ECAs and all the other fun stuff. Liver tabs are for hardcore people who already have a good plan.

**slaps76** · 10-27-2002, 12:57 PM

Oh, I see...for "hardcore people."

And since liver tabs were the supplement of choice for our grandparents, they must have landed back in "secret land," because not too many people/magazines/ect. speak highly of them, with the exception of what I've seen on this site.

So did you find any documentation, or do you know they're so "hardcore" from reading a few opinions here?

**ralph4u2c** · 10-27-2002, 01:32 PM

i have a whole bottle of liver tabs, anyone want them ?

**slaps76** · 10-28-2002, 08:22 AM

Doesn't anyone else have opinions on this? It seems they're a pretty popular supplement, I'm just curious to what people like so much about them?

**2demon2** · 10-28-2002, 08:50 AM

I've never understood the dessicated liver hype here, either (nor have others, such as 1fast). If your diet and usual multi-vitamin isn't covering bases that liver tabs would cover, you need to look at those before shelling out money for liver tabs, cheap as they are.

**SUPERMANSTANLEY** · 10-28-2002, 09:07 AM

Originally posted by Antonio
People just think that because dessecated liver is very cheap it does not work. guess what? They are all wrong. Liver tabs are excellent if you are looking for serious mass. they are also good for cutting. they are rich in iron, aminiacids, vitamins, mostly B-complex vitamins....

Definately a must if you want to grow.

I agree........ I take 20 of them throughout the day.

**Bulldog13** · 10-28-2002, 09:10 AM

Liver tabs = love.

I have been seeing decent weight gains in all of my lifts.

Granted, it may be a placebo type effect, or muscle memory kicking in more efficiently than usual, but I swear by these things.

If I had to recommend a supplement besides protein, eca, and creatine, I would recommend these things.

**2demon2** · 10-28-2002, 09:22 AM

Originally posted by SUPERMANSTANLEY
I agree........

You agree that they're "definitely a must if you want to grow"? Come on.

**climb21cj** · 10-28-2002, 09:24 AM

i will agree that since i started taking them i didn't notice much difference,

but i will also include that since i started eating an extra 1000 calories a day i didn't notice any difference except being broke all the time,

**Beast** · 10-28-2002, 09:27 AM

Here is my personal experience
When I take 5-6 liver tabs before and after my workout, I am not sore at all the next day.
I did an experiment where I would take my liver tabs for 4 out of the 5 days I would lift. Each week was a different day/muscle group. Without fail, I was sore only after the days I did not take the liver tabs.
I could care less about seeing documentation. I have personal experienced the benefits.

**2demon2** · 10-28-2002, 09:30 AM

Originally posted by Beast
Without fail, I was sore only after the days I did not take the liver tabs.

Which indicates what? Degree of muscle soreness is not necessarily an indicator of muscle recovery (or lack thereof).

**irpker** · 10-28-2002, 09:34 AM

I remember reading Bill Phillips comparing HMB to deca... talk about hyping up a supplement.

**John Benz** · 10-28-2002, 09:44 AM

Dessicated liver is equal to many times its weight in RAW liver, containing enzymes and b complex vitamins that are destroyed in the cooking process. There are more anabolic nutritional factors in liver tabs than any other food or protein supplement, or any multivitamin. Besides a superb amino acid balance, this is one of the best sources of "B-complex" vitamins. Only brewer's yeast has an equivalent B-complex ratio. B-12 is hard for the body to assimilate, and liver is one of the best sources for easily assimilated B-12, and synergistic heme-iron. Also a good source of Co-Q-10, many scarce trace minerals, including copper, zinc, and iron, and also antifatigue P-450 enzymes, lipotropic, and other growth factors, even an anti-estrogen factor.

I always saw a marked increase in endurance and stamina with the old dessicated liver powder years ago. Liver has fallen out of vogue with today's "it has to taste good" mentality. But the old timers like Larry Scott, and Frank Zane, who were Mr. Olympia before the insane steroid use of the modern competitors like Ronnie and Jay, took 100 or more liver tabs daily, and considered them essential. I used to dump heaping tablespoons of dessicated liver powder in my protein shake back 20 years ago. You had to hold your nose and gag this down. The protein itself was non-instantized, required a blender and was far less palatable than any of the proteins you guys are accusing of tasting bad nowadays. But I noticed, even in my teens, a far greater level of energy and stamina with dessicated liver, and I was doing full body workouts back then.

My reason for taking liver tabs is primarily the anti-fatigue factor, which is not placebo effect. I began to notice several years ago that when I ran out of dessicated liver for a week or more, my stamina noticeably decreased in the last stages of a body blast workout. I began to realize my strength held out longer in the gym, and I seemed to recuperate faster. Even if someone was to show me a 50 page clinical study proving liver cannot do what I know it does; well, sometimes real world results fly in the face of logic.

**John Benz** · 10-28-2002, 09:58 AM

BTW, most reputable companies only use Argentinian beef liver, as all pesticides are banned in Argentina. IMO, liver tabs are more important than Creatine or Glutamine.

**Melkor** · 10-28-2002, 10:14 AM

Originally posted by John Benz
Dessicated liver is equal to many times its weight in RAW liver, containing enzymes and b complex vitamins that are destroyed in the cooking process. There are more anabolic nutritional factors in liver tabs than any other food or protein supplement, or any multivitamin. Besides a superb amino acid balance, this is one of the best sources of "B-complex" vitamins. Only brewer's yeast has an equivalent B-complex ratio. B-12 is hard for the body to assimilate, and liver is one of the best sources for easily assimilated B-12, and synergistic heme-iron. Also a good source of Co-Q-10, many scarce trace minerals, including copper, zinc, and iron, and also antifatigue P-450 enzymes, lipotropic, and other growth factors, even an anti-estrogen factor.

I always saw a marked increase in endurance and stamina with the old dessicated liver powder years ago. Liver has fallen out of vogue with today's "it has to taste good" mentality. But the old timers like Larry Scott, and Frank Zane, who were Mr. Olympia before the insane steroid use of the modern competitors like Ronnie and Jay, took 100 or more liver tabs daily, and considered them essential. I used to dump heaping tablespoons of dessicated liver powder in my protein shake back 20 years ago. You had to hold your nose and gag this down. The protein itself was non-instantized, required a blender and was far less palatable than any of the proteins you guys are accusing of tasting bad nowadays. But I noticed, even in my teens, a far greater level of energy and stamina with dessicated liver, and I was doing full body workouts back then.

My reason for taking liver tabs is primarily the anti-fatigue factor, which is not placebo effect. I began to notice several years ago that when I ran out of dessicated liver for a week or more, my stamina noticeably decreased in the last stages of a body blast workout. I began to realize my strength held out longer in the gym, and I seemed to recuperate faster. Even if someone was to show me a 50 page clinical study proving liver cannot do what I know it does; well, sometimes real world results fly in the face of logic.

Any other questions about it? lol

I just started taking them recently and have noticed more energy and better recovery already. I am a fan.

**Bulldog13** · 10-28-2002, 10:19 AM

Originally posted by irpker
I remember reading Bill Phillips comparing HMB to deca... talk about hyping up a supplement.

LOL - I remeber that. BWAHAHAHAHAHA

**dg806** · 10-28-2002, 10:56 AM

Everyone please pay attention to this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by John Benz
Dessicated liver is equal to many times its weight in RAW liver, containing enzymes and b complex vitamins that are destroyed in the cooking process. There are more anabolic nutritional factors in liver tabs than any other food or protein supplement, or any multivitamin. Besides a superb amino acid balance, this is one of the best sources of "B-complex" vitamins. Only brewer's yeast has an equivalent B-complex ratio. B-12 is hard for the body to assimilate, and liver is one of the best sources for easily assimilated B-12, and synergistic heme-iron. Also a good source of Co-Q-10, many scarce trace minerals, including copper, zinc, and iron, and also antifatigue P-450 enzymes, lipotropic, and other growth factors, even an anti-estrogen factor.

I always saw a marked increase in endurance and stamina with the old dessicated liver powder years ago. Liver has fallen out of vogue with today's "it has to taste good" mentality. But the old timers like Larry Scott, and Frank Zane, who were Mr. Olympia before the insane steroid use of the modern competitors like Ronnie and Jay, took 100 or more liver tabs daily, and considered them essential. I used to dump heaping tablespoons of dessicated liver powder in my protein shake back 20 years ago. You had to hold your nose and gag this down. The protein itself was non-instantized, required a blender and was far less palatable than any of the proteins you guys are accusing of tasting bad nowadays. But I noticed, even in my teens, a far greater level of energy and stamina with dessicated liver, and I was doing full body workouts back then.

My reason for taking liver tabs is primarily the anti-fatigue factor, which is not placebo effect. I began to notice several years ago that when I ran out of dessicated liver for a week or more, my stamina noticeably decreased in the last stages of a body blast workout. I began to realize my strength held out longer in the gym, and I seemed to recuperate faster. Even if someone was to show me a 50 page clinical study proving liver cannot do what I know it does; well, sometimes real world results fly in the face of logic.

**slaps76** · 10-28-2002, 11:11 AM

I'm sorry, I'm still not convinced. I don't agree it's "fallen out of vouge with today's taste good mentality," because people are taking it in tab form, not dumping a vile tasting liquid into thier protien shakes. I think it's fallen out of vogue in today's "prove it works" mentality, actually. LIke I said, there's studies that show certain supplements do certain things...which are based on "real world" activities, because the test subjects in legit studies are weight lifters. That's one reason creatine has been the hottest supplement for a while, now. There are other supplements that have been "hot" but aren't anymore because they weren't proven to work...aka vanadyl sulfate as one example. I've yet to hear about liver tabs actually being proven to cause fitness gains, other than people here saying they think they work. I'm not tyring to say they're not full of those nutrients, but between all the meal replacements, red meat, overall diet, and vitamins I take, I'm 99.99% sure I'm not deficient in any B-vitamins, iron, or amino acids at all. And if today, with these supplements, one can get these vitamins/minerals/nutrients, know almost exactly how much of each they're getting, without consuming liver, which the body's toxic waste passes through.

**2demon2** · 10-28-2002, 11:14 AM

Originally posted by John Benz
IMO, liver tabs are more important than Creatine or Glutamine.

This isn't saying much, as neither is essential for muscle growth.

I'm not discounting the usefulness of liver tabs, mind you. But I don't see the proof behind statements such as "definitely a must if you want to grow."

**SUPERMANSTANLEY** · 10-28-2002, 11:16 AM

Originally posted by 2demon2
You agree that they're "definitely a must if you want to grow"? Come on.

They give me alot of energy for my grueling workouts!!!

**John Benz** · 10-28-2002, 11:49 AM

Originally posted by slaps76
I'm sorry, I'm still not convinced. I don't agree it's "fallen out of vouge with today's taste good mentality," because people are taking it in tab form, not dumping a vile tasting liquid into thier protien shakes. I think it's fallen out of vogue in today's "prove it works" mentality, actually. ...which are based on "real world" activities, because the test subjects in legit studies are weight lifters.

Slaphappy, most professional weight lifters consider liver tabs a must for growth and performance, as do most on this board who know what they're talking about. What vile liquid are you referring to? Are you that new at all this? Liver tabs are real world performance enhancers. Now you would do well to sit back, hush up, and learn a thing or two, newbie.

Originally posted by slaps76
That's one reason creatine has been the hottest supplement for a while, now. an get these vitamins/minerals/nutrients, know almost exactly how much of each they're getting, without consuming liver, which the body's toxic waste passes through.

You show your ignorance of liver function here, but I don't have time right now to enlighten you.

**2demon2** · 10-28-2002, 11:52 AM

Originally posted by John Benz
Slaphappy, most professional weight lifters consider liver tabs a must for growth and performance, as do most on this board who know what they're talking about.

So you're saying that 1fast and I don't know what we're talking about? Tsk, tsk.

**John Benz** · 10-28-2002, 11:56 AM

Originally posted by slaps76
and have read numerous fitness/bodybuilding mags....However, this is the ONLY place I've ever seen dessicated liver so highly touted as a great supplement. I've never even heard much about it until I came across so many people on this site who take it.

In the last year every major mag has had articles touting effectiveness of dessicated liver as an unparelleled performance sup, and I have talked to IFFBB pros who would not ever be without it. But then some folks buy those mags for the pictures.

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